69 Charger 500's

[500Jon]

My 500 was December 19th build date.
Last day for 500's in 1968.
I'm 248662 and there are two more known at 665 and the number of the beast '666'..... (closest to devil?)

If we have the start date and the end date and the sequence numbers (batches) then a rough calculation should be possible?
A grid can be formulated of what days and how man Charger R/T's were sent to Creative.
This can be cross checked with the 69 R/T database to see where the HOLES are in the sequences???

If we can crack 'ENIGMA' WE CAN SOLVE THE 45 YEAR MYSTERY of Charger 500's without GG!!!

When I saw the Florida Title for my C500 and its lack of information I was quite shocked!
Someone 'hole-stamped' over the vin details as well???
Once the C500 is registered here in the UK this document will be lost unfortunately.


OOPS, Hemigeno has sorta shot my idea down already on da other thread!

[WINGMAN]

  Back in 1986 when I was looking to buy a 69 500 I called on a 500 that was listed in Hemmings, It was a F8 440 with 4 speed . The VIN is XX29l9B238077 VON 925295 sold by Stanley Dodge in National city CA. The owner sent me copies of the window sticker, broadcast sheet and the shipping invoice from Chrysler to Creative dated 1-15-69. This proves that 500s were still being converted in vary early 1969. Also on the Creative invoice on upper left is shipper requested by C.B.Wickard, issued by F.Worbitzer and shipped by G.W.Zito. invoice#3455249 with the VIN and VON listed and  5 tires and 5 wheels. On the lower right in the summary of pkgs.or containers there is a hand written (green) and the number 496. So is this 496 the number of 500s that were received by Creative or what.  To be continued   (Wingman0  Jay.

[Ghoste]

Could it be just the date they happened to send the shipping invoice?  I ask because in the 69 Registry the scheduled build date from the fender tag for 238077 is November 20, 1968 and the other VON's from that group all correspond to that date as do ones coming later in December.

[Alaskan_TA]

Keep in mind that the Scheduled Production Date (SPD) is the date Chrysler HOPED to build the car when the order was first entered into the system.

Evidence has shown that their hopes were dashed to pieces all the time.

[Ghoste]

Absolutely, just saying that it would mean they were a couple of months behind production if this is the case.

[Alaskan_TA]

Some were built on time, some early & some late.

Production never stopped, it was just not always in the order that most seem to assume.

[nascarxx29]

 Back in 1986 when I was looking to buy a 69 500 I called on a 500 that was listed in Hemmings, It was a F8 440 with 4 speed . The VIN is XX29l9B238077 VON 925295 sold by Stanley Dodge in National city CA. The owner sent me copies of the window sticker, broadcast sheet and the shipping invoice from Chrysler to Creative dated 1-15-69. This proves that 500s were still being converted in vary early 1969. Also on the Creative invoice on upper left is shipper requested by C.B.Wickard, issued by F.Worbitzer and shipped by G.W.Zito. invoice#3455249 with the VIN and VON listed and  5 tires and 5 wheels. On the lower right in the summary of pkgs.or containers there is a hand written (green) and the number 496. So is this 496 the number of 500s that were received by Creative or what.  To be continued  (Wingman0  Jay.

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,43271.0.html

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,48955.0.html Stanley dodge F8 green 500

[69_500]

A November 20th scheduled car that was still at Creative on the 15th of January would not be out of line in my opinion. Look at the Daytona shipment list and compare scheduled production dates to actual shipment dates from Creative.

One would think a November 20th car probably did not actually roll down the line until closer to December 1 maybe. Then it was off to Creative. Figure a week waiting in line maybe more, then what 2-3 if not more weeks until conversion was complete. Depending on what color it was and what color they needed to hurry up and get out the door due to an order. 
Which is why I said that the late December cars were probably still at Creative up until mid to late February.

[Ghoste]

Okay, never looked at it that way before and it makes sense.

[Highwaystar]

So what have we come up with here? Is it possible some 500's were finished as Daytona's? Or just that the order on 500's were cut short for the production of Daytona's? Or something totally different. It does make sense the production dates, order dates, scheduled dates are not going to meet deadlines when you have another manufacturer with there hands in the mix.

[Ghoste]

No, the Daytonas were some months after the 500.  Some 500's may have been a little late from assembly line to shipment from Creative but not by a few months.
What we have is a letter from Chrysler stating a certain number of 500's were built and a list that no one is allowed to see that purports many more were built.

[69_500]

Right, even with possibility the last 500 left Creative in late February the first Daytona's were not there until April.

[odcics2]

Keep in mind the only reason the 500s (and Daytonas) were built.

To race in Nascar and other sanctioning bodies.

Both cars had to be completely done building out and it had to be certified by Nascar in order to race.
The Riverside race was 2-1-69, and it was race 3 of the 1969 season.

Al Unser was 4th in the #41 Dodge.  Now - to see visual proof it was a Charger 500....      in that race!!

[500Jon]

Good point there Greg.

CHARGER-392 doesn't really have the same ring as CHARGER-500?
As a remodelled 68/69 Charger maybe Big Bill wasn't too concerned about 500 actually being made.
The Daytona was a different build again with 70 Sheetmetal and a big NOSE!
Ford got away with a lot worse, non legit engines, converted floorpans etc.

As I said, its '392' until the day the 393rd 500 turns up LOL!
Or GG tells us different, yeah right!!!

Happy Christmas Aero's

[69_500]

Bump.

[69_500]

Figure its time to do a bit of an update on this one.

Currently at 320 car in the spreadsheet.

color break down for ones I can confirm via fender tag or broadcast sheet as to their factory colors are as follows

A4   8
B3   1
B5   20
B7   1
F3   6
F5   16
F8   35
Q5   2
R4   46
R6   5
T3   6
T5   18
T7   6
W1   8
X9   9
Y2   8
Y4   4
99   3

Break down of HEMI vs 440 cars

HEMI         
         101
         
440 cars         
         218

Break down of transmissions

4speed         65
AT         138

total of 15 known SE 500's at this point.

total of 6 known cars coded for J46 locking gas caps.

total of 27 known cars to be coded for M25 body moldings

Radio breakdown is as follows
R11     103
R21       12
R22        17

R31 option on 10 cars so far.

[RallyeMike]

Great info. Thanks 

[RallyeMike]

Wow you have really made progress since last time I compared notes!

Did you count the W1/Tan 440 in the known SE's?. The fender tag was MIA, but it surely is one.

Are those Hemi vs 440 numbers correctly typed? 

By chance do you have an F3 Hemi 4-speed car from OR in there? If not, maybe I need to finally see if I can verify it via road trip this summer. Besides, my 500 could use a good carbon blow out.

[69_500]

Wow you have really made progress since last time I compared notes!

Did you count the W1/Tan 440 in the known SE's?. The fender tag was MIA, but it surely is one.

Are those Hemi vs 440 numbers correctly typed? 

By chance do you have an F3 Hemi 4-speed car from OR in there? If not, maybe I need to finally see if I can verify it via road trip this summer. Besides, my 500 could use a good carbon blow out.

white with tan interior is included in SE.
yes Hemi vs 440 numbers are correct

I only have one HEMI F3 car but do not have entire fender tag info on the car.

[Homerr]

Just for comparison I thought I'd take a look at the registry I curate to see where it is, though not all are confirmed by tag/sheet as Danny's are.  Numbers in blue.

Figure its time to do a bit of an update on this one.

Currently at 320 car in the spreadsheet.  310

color break down for ones I can confirm via fender tag or broadcast sheet as to their factory colors are as follows

A4   8
B3   1
B5   20  12
B7   1
F3   6  3
F5   16  5
F8   35  27
Q5   2  1
R4   46  18
R6   5  3
T3   6  7
T5   18  7
T7   6  4
W1   8  4
X9   9  8
Y2   8  4
Y4   4  2
99   3

Break down of HEMI vs 440 cars

HEMI         
         101  98
         
440 cars         
         218  207

Break down of transmissions

4speed         65  39
AT         138    86

total of 15 known SE 500's at this point.  3

total of 6 known cars coded for J46 locking gas caps.  1
 
total of 27 known cars to be coded for M25 body moldings  9

Radio breakdown is as follows
R11     103  43
R21       12  8
R22        17  4

R31 option on 10 cars so far.

[69_500]

Now I am curious as to which one in T3 I am missing.

[Homerr]

Should be easy to figure out.

[69_500]

Should be easy to figure out.

You sure 224399 is T3? 69 Charger registry had the car as T7 and I have info stating it is T5. Only have a few older pics of the car, and can't use those to verify color. I don't have that particular car logged as one of any color since I can't pin point exactly which tan it is.

[69_500]

Should be easy to figure out.

166353   E86    D32      T3
217202   E74   D32   XX   T3
220077   E86   D32      T3
220086   E74   D32   XX   T3
232015   E86   D32   XX   T3
232020   E74   D32   XX   T3

[Homerr]

Should be easy to figure out.

You sure 224399 is T3? 69 Charger registry had the car as T7 and I have info stating it is T5. Only have a few older pics of the car, and can't use those to verify color. I don't have that particular car logged as one of any color since I can't pin point exactly which tan it is.

It does look darker than T3.  I did a search and am revising it to T5 based on this post:

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,49304.0.html