Pulleys won't line up

[70charger2006]

I am in the process of finishing those last few things on my engine and the pulleys don't want to line up. Here is a brief overview of what's up. It is a '71 440 I want to say and the car is factory AC and Power Steering. I am building the engine without AC for now. Correct me if I'm wrong but what I think I know is this.

With AC: 4 Groove Crank Pulley, 1 Groove Fan Pulley, 2 Groove Alternator Pulley, 2 Groove Compressor, 1 Groove Idler Pulley and 1 Groove Power Steering Pulley.

2 Belts for Alt, Compressor, Crank: 1 Belt for PS, Fan, Crank: 1 Belt for Idler, Fan, Crank

Without AC: 2 Groove Crank Pulley, 2 Groove Fan Pulley, 1 Groove Alternator Pulley and 1 Groove Power Steering Pulley.

1 Belt for Alt, Fan, Crank: 1 Belt for Fan, PS, Crank

Is this information accurate? That would be the first question I guess.

As of right now the only thing I have not installed to test is the alternator. If I put all the above listed pulleys on for "NO AC", none of them will line up with each other. If I put the 2 Groove Fan Pulley, 4 Groove Crank Pulley and the PS Pulley on, the Crank and Fan line up perfect but the PS sits about 1 groove behind the fan.

Can someone please tell me if the above info is correct and if so, what grooves the belts should sit in. I just want to make sure that if and when I can get these stupid pulleys to line up that I put the belts in the appropriate grooves. Thank you guys very much.

[maxwellwedge]

Double groove crank pulley  (with power steering)

Single groove fan pulley is what you want.......never seen a dual groove

Single or double pulley allternator is ok

[70charger2006]

So the belt goes from the PS to the crank and that is it? Then the alt to crank and fan? Why would the pulleys still not line up. They are all hard mounted to the motor and are not able to adjust in and out so I can't figure out why they are not lining up.

[maxwellwedge]

Yes
Alt, crank and water pump is one belt

P/Steering to crank is one belt.

There were all kinds of different pulleys made....If you dont have the proper ones they aren't going to line up.

Can you see if the alt lines up with the water pump.

Does the P/S line up with the crank?

Maybe just one of them is throwing you off.

Maybe the alt is not mounted properly?

Post a pic and let us see what's going on there.

[maxwellwedge]

Side view...

[70charger2006]

Nice pics. I will get a pic of mine tomorrow. I will mount the alternator and see how it goes. I think the problem lies in my PS pulley or crank pulley though. We will see.

[maxwellwedge]

Ok - Let us know.   

[70charger2006]

Ok, got the alternator mounted. It seems the alternator lines up with the crank. I realized I need a new water pump pulley. The main issue I am having is the Power Steering Pulley. It looks like it is set back to far. It is a brand new pump. I checked the shaft and it is not bent. The pulley is not bent either. How can I fix this?

[ncmiller1]

I'm not sure if this helps, but I just did a 318 to 440 engine swap and took a complete 440 with A/C and rebuilt it, but didn't want to use the A/C when I put it in the charger.  After much pain and suffering trying to get the belts to line up with the assorted 318 and 440 pulleys and brackets I had, I eventually ended up buying a new alternator bracket, fan pully, crank pulley, and power steering pump bracket to get everything to fit.  You seem to have everything except maybe the correct power steering pump bracket.  I bought mine at 440source for $40 (plus the awesome $12 s/h, of course...).  Hope this helps in anyway, and I hope you get it all lined up!

[elacruze]

Your pulley is pressed too far onto the pump shaft. I had to move mine out to get it to line up, too. You'll need a special tool for that, you can't pry it.

<edit>

Looks like you have a threaded shaft with bolt? If so, I can't help sorry. You may be able to space the brackets.

[charger Downunder]

Space out the pump i also posted on the 70 charger site for you.

[70charger2006]

Here are some pics to verify the measurements I have. The centerline of the 2 grooves of the crank pulley measure 2 1/8" and 3" from the harmonic balancer. The centerline of the PS pulley measures about 1 1/4" from the front bracket.







From what I can tell, the PS Pulley needs to be pushed out about 1/2" to line up with the front groove of the crank pulley. The alternator lines up fine with the crank.

[A383Wing]

looks like PS pulley is on too far

Bryan   

[70charger2006]

Anybody have any ideas on why the PS won't line up? Is putting spacers on the pump the only option? The pulley is seated on the shaft right now. I cannot pull it out because it won't be seated anymore. Even if I did I would not be able to put the securing nut on the shaft.

[A383Wing]

all my P/S pulleys are press on style...none of mine have a nut to hold pulley on....starting to think you got wrong pump?

Bryan

[70charger2006]

all my P/S pulleys are press on style...none of mine have a nut to hold pulley on....starting to think you got wrong pump?

Bryan

My pump has a keyed shaft and requires a nut to be threaded on. It is a Saginaw.

[A383Wing]

pulley on backwards?

Bryan (running out of ideas)

[Cooter]

Where did the crank pulleys and others come from? You do reallize some small block crank pulleys WILL bolt to the BB balancer right? So, if you sourced 'em through swap meets, then someone might have sold you a mismatched set of pulleys. Therefore, you will have to space out the PS pump to get it to work. Also, that style PS pump might not have come with those brackets/engine/crank pulley either.

[70charger2006]

Is there a difference in Power Steering Pulley's? Between big block and small block? Maybe that pulley is wrong. Or for some reason maybe the shaft of the pump is too short? How long should the pump shaft be?

[70charger2006]

I've been going through multiple pics of pulleys and to be honest, mine looks different. It looks like the curve in the 3 spokes are more defined in my pulley. Can someone chime in and tell me what the measurement is of the pulley? From the outer edge of the pulley to the edge that slides on the shaft? Thanks for all the help.

[A383Wing]

I can't until this weekend

Bryan

[oestermarken]

pulley on backwards?

Bryan (running out of ideas)

I agree, it looks like the spokes on your PS pulley is curving the wrong way offsetting the pulley groove towards the engine, IIRC it suppose to be the other way around.
I can't verify it, my car is in winter storage at the moment.

/Brian

[bull]

pulley on backwards?

Bryan (running out of ideas)

I agree, it looks like the spokes on your PS pulley is curving the wrong way offsetting the pulley groove towards the engine, IIRC it suppose to be the other way around.
I can't verify it, my car is in winter storage at the moment.

/Brian

In that last pic it looks to me like the pulley curves inward. I bet pulling it off and turning it around would move it out about 1/2" and line it up.

[Cooter]

On the style pump like this that has the keyed shaft for the pulley on the PS pump, isn't the pump shaft tapered so the pulley will only go on one way?

[70charger2006]

On the style pump like this that has the keyed shaft for the pulley on the PS pump, isn't the pump shaft tapered so the pulley will only go on one way?

Yes it it. I tried to put it on the other way and it won't go. That is why I am trying to see if there are different style pulleys out there. My spokes taper out and then back in a little.

[oldkimmer]

......................On non a/c cars the alt belt is closest to the block. p/s belt is closest to the rad......which means on the crank and w/p pulley drives the alt, the crank only drives the p/s pump..............i can send u a set next week if u still need by then...........kim..............

[oestermarken]

On the style pump like this that has the keyed shaft for the pulley on the PS pump, isn't the pump shaft tapered so the pulley will only go on one way?

Yes it it. I tried to put it on the other way and it won't go. That is why I am trying to see if there are different style pulleys out there. My spokes taper out and then back in a little.

The new 440 source P/S pulley I have in my stash is not tapered, it will go on either way 

/Brian

[70charger2006]

......................On non a/c cars the alt belt is closest to the block. p/s belt is closest to the rad......which means on the crank and w/p pulley drives the alt, the crank only drives the p/s pump..............i can send u a set next week if u still need by then...........kim..............

I would only need the power steering pulley and water pump pulley. How much?