How serious should we take the prices on Barret-Jackson

[chargervert]

I was watching Barret Jackson last night,and I watched a 70 V code Road Runner,sell for $142,000.00! I have to wonder how that kind of pricing will effect the pricing across the board in our hobby! The reason I'm asking,is because I have a 70 V code,4 speed car,that I am negotciating a deal to sell,for $15,000. Its a solid car that needs restoration! If these prices are a representitive of the real world,am I selling the Road Runner,too short! Any input would be a great help! Thanks Pete

[Shakey]

It has been said before here recently - it is only worth what someone is willing to pay.

I saw a '69 Super Bee go for $200,000.00 USD - I don't think that is the going rate for those cars as of now.

[Ghoste]

It's a mixed bag.  Some of those prices are going to be real bids by someone who really wanted the car.  Some of those bids are going to be pushed up by the ringmen fooling some rich drunk into bidding against himself.  Some of those bids will be won by the house because they've promised a seller he'd get a spectacular price just so they could get his car in the show.  Some of those bids will be shills placed there by the owners to try and feel out or "re-establish" a market value on thier car.  Some will be drunken show offs. 
B-J had turned their auction into an event and like all events on television in North America, we believe it.  For their part, they need to keep the magic going.  Each day must be bigger and better than the one before.  Who will win on survivor, how many times can we go to the well, what will happen if we let Toyota into NASCAR?  B-J has to keep you riveted and records must constantly be set.  Some of what you are seeing has been settled amny months before this weekend.
But some of those bids are real.

[chargervert]

I had an A 12 Superbee, I sold it in 1998 for $8800.00,after I saw that bee go for that kind of money,I felt sick! I just don't want to make the same mistake with the Road Runner! I know that $200,000 was insane,but even half of that would be fine. I just wanted to ask what people think about if those prices will effect the cars that we have right now?

[Ghoste]

Yes.  There will be a huge group who still have a good idea of the real value of these cars but there will be two extremes driving the market.  The investor crowd will be having multiple orgasms for weeks over this and we know what will happen there.  At the other end, right now some toothless schmuk is wiping his hands on his pants, shutting off his satellite television and getting ready to leave the trailer and fetch that damn old car he's been usin' fer shootin' pracktiss outta the bush.  Damn things worth more 'n our howss!  Git r dun!

[Blown70]

At 15,000 depends what is there, solid is good how is the drive line.  If that is there and #'s  you are IMO selling short.  But that is your deal. 

Tom

[69_500]

Depending on how solid the car is I'd say a V code Road Runner 4 speed car that is in need of a restoration in my opinion should be a $20-25K car. Even if it needs a whole restoration. If a restored version is $142K, and it won't take $120K to restore the car you'd be selling yourself short if you parted with it for less than $20-25K in my opinion.
NOw is it really worth that, to me no. But in reality I guess so because of the prices people are getting for things.

[6pkrunner]

Those cars bear no relationship to the cars that the average Joe buys or wants to buy. The big negative effect is that everyone who has a steaming pile now thinks its worth 6 digits. Shame.

[chargervert]

The Road Runner is a 70 Hardtop(roll down quarter windows) RM23VOG It's A Hemi Orange(EV2) Bench seat 4 Speed car, it has the Air Grabber hood,and it has power disc brakes,and is also a super track pack car,with a 4.10 Dana 60 rear axle. The body is really solid, All the floors are in excellent condition,the frame rails are mint,the trunk floor is new and installed,the trunk extensions are all there,the rear quarters have pin holes in the lower sections behind the wheels,and the right one has a hole about the size of a silver dollar,just above the body line at the edge of the wheel well. The car is missing its matching numbers motor,and trans,but I have a correct dated 70 HP2 sixpack engine,that came out of a Challenger,and a 70 Hemi four speed trans too. The car has a tic toc tach,and I have the correct pistol grip bench seat shifter,box,and rods,as well as the exhaust manifolds,the vacuum can for the air grabber,a new gas tank,and sender unit. The only things I do not have for the car,is the correct sixpack setup,and the correct radiator.

[Ghoste]

Pics?

[chargervert]

Gary has some,I will ask him to post them. I had brought the car to Carlsile,a few years back,before I aquired the driveline for it.

[Ghoste]

It sounds like you're giving somebody a deal.  You know these cars though, what do you think?

[chargervert]

Ghoste,after I watched that show,I started having second thoughts about selling the car at all! The money was going to be used to finish the new garage! I'm starting to think that I should just build the car! It would be a sweet peice!

[Blakcharger440]

I think they bear a direct relationship to where prices are going. My 70 Roadrunner 383 console 4spd car with air grabber numbers matching has certainly has increased in market value as a direct correlation to the prices obtained on Barrett Jackson.

If it were a shiny red 69 Charger Daytona that crossed the auction block every Charger 500, Daytona  and Charger RT owner believes that their car has also tripled in value...how come you think they want so much for them nowadays?


I think you should at least ask $50K for your Roadrunner as it is a sixpack car. ( If your car brings that much then surely I should be able to get $75K out of mine as it is restored!    Sweeeet! 

What ever one car sells for increases the value of all the cars in the hobby! So if ya have em dont sell em cause ya wont be able to afford to buy them back!
If you sell yours for a mountain of cash the other person is going to want 5 mountains as the price down the line...just good business practice.

[Ghoste]

And then we all woke up.  I think 50k is high, but that's just me.  As for a 70 383 Runner going for 75k...

[TruckDriver]

Just wait for the Daytonas that are on the block tonight I bet you see insane prices then for sure.

[chargervert]

I think 50 is too high too! But the 20-25k I think is becoming a reality! I just don't want to be kicking my own ass later on like the Superbee,or the 71 Barracuda convertible,I sold back in 98! I sold a 70 Barracuda convertible about 2 years ago,it was a basket case,but I rounded up a lot of parts for it.I sold it to a guy from New York for $6500 delivered,the guy flipped it for double that,on E bay,and still bitched to me about the price I charged him for the car!

[Ghoste]

That's more where I was thinking.  As for kicking yourself, that will ALWAYS happen.  I bought a 68 Road Runner once for 75 dollars.  I sold a 70 AAR for 1200.  I had a 71 Challenger 340 vert that I paid less than a grand for.  My 69 Super Bee was a 250 dollar car.
All back in the late 70's of course!
Unless the (older) boomers all start dying off soon and their heirs start selling these cars off as scrap metal because the rice generation doesn't want them, they will never come down in price.  I would just like to see the market rise in a normal fashion.
We could hit "oil peak" too which would also make these cars worthless.  If that happens, I'll buy one of these Hemi things to park in my backyard and sit in it everyday when I'm 90 and drink bourbon from the bottle while I babble to myself about the good old days.

[Old Moparz]

I was watching Barret Jackson last night,and I watched a 70 V code Road Runner,sell for $142,000.00! I have to wonder how that kind of pricing will effect the pricing across the board in our hobby! The reason I'm asking,is because I have a 70 V code,4 speed car,that I am negotciating a deal to sell,for $15,000. Its a solid car that needs restoration! If these prices are a representitive of the real world,am I selling the Road Runner,too short! Any input would be a great help! Thanks Pete

Hey Pete,

I have mixed feelings on the BJ auctions being legit, or any auction at all, but they do actually influence the prices on all cars within the hobby. Some people I work with were working together this past week trying to sell some Daytona 500, weekend pass, tickets. The face value added up to $1200, but he had his friend bid it up to $1500 & nudged up the next legit bid. He then got greedy, & they bid again, but got stuck with the tickets & relisted them. So much for that auction having any credibility

On Moparts.com last year, someone posted some good comments regarding the so called, "$5 million dollar, Hemi Cuda convertible." It was about the Hot Rod magazine article that interviewed the owner, & he was saying how he turned down one of these multi-million offers for the car. That was the start in building the legendary value of the car. A few months later, it was on ebay, & reached somewhere over $4 million. That was the 2nd part of building the legendary price.

How real was the multi-million dollar offer printed in Hot Rod? How real was the ebay auction of $4 million? Could be just as real as the auction for the Daytona 500 tickets my coworker listed. Sadly, people see only the surface of all these deals & auctions & not the final outcome or the transfer of money & ownership. I don't believe that all auctions are fake, but I do know that some are, & it's only to build up an inflated & fictitious value.

As for the V-code RR you have, $15K could be okay, or it could be too low. It just depends on how long you want to sit on it & what potential buyers know about it. You want to finish the garage & if moving the car allows you to do that, then maybe that's what you should do. If you think you can get more for it, it'll take a little more effort, time & money perhaps, but you may not get enough to cover the aggravation that goes with it. You could also end up losing the $15K deal entirely, & if the market changes, you're stuck with it.

[TK73]

I'll buy one of these Hemi things to park in my backyard and sit in everyday when I'm 90 and drink bourbon from the bottle while I babble to myself about the good old days.

I like this retirement plan...

[Dodge-Charger]

Anything at auction will go higher then if it was a straight out sale.( Ebay has proved that ) 
  At a big name auction you get guys like Jay Leno and Tim Allen bidding against each other as if to say  " I got more cars than you " to see who will have a bigger collection.

[chargervert]

Hey Bob,I know what your saying. I just feel like everytime I sell one of these cars,I get my ass handed to me in short order! I sold my 71 Barracuda convertible,It was a slant 6 car,but It had a 71 HP 383,auto,with a steel shaker hood,and 15x7 rallyes,I sold it for $8500,and the guy I sold it to,who just had to have it for his wife(I didn't have the car for sale,this guy came to buy some parts,and my friend talked me into selling it to the guy!) He flipped it a week later,for $13,500,and the guy he sold it to flipped it for $18,500,all this happened within a couple of weeks! I felt like a dope! I consider my knowledge of the pricing to be very good,but this market changes so rapidly,that I'm still getting beat! Thats why I was questioning the Barret Jackson pricing,and how you guys thought it would impact current pricing in our world! I just don't want another beating! I suppose there are worse cars to be stuck with!

[472 R/T SE]

I didn't read all the threads, but I say keep the car if you can financially swing it.  If the bottom ever falls in the market, it's not gonna happen overnight. 
Guys like you in the know should be able to see it coming and then hopefully the market's so outta sight you'll stay make a bundle selling it  IMO.


BTW, what's this RR look like?  Could I get some pix?

[Ghoste]

Actually the guys like Leno and Allen are pretty savvy and won't usually waste money to prove they have a bigger collection.  They know there are a lot of good cars to be had.  The fools tend to be folks who have recently become cash flush for whatever reason and are letting their egos make the decision.

[phat69charger]

I've had a few chargers in the last 20 years and a few other mopars, all I can say is If I could only have seen what was going to be happening with these cars I would have a parking lot of cars that I owned, Barret Jackson has the same cars that you and I have, you know the cars there're selling didn't start out like that somebody had to restore them, and there are people that make it a business to buy the cars restore it then flip it, don't let someone tell you a bunch of BS about they have been looking or they wanted a car like yours for a long time, there intention is flipping it most likely, I know of about 30 cars that I could flip and all of the owners are old people that have had the cars for a long time and the cars don't mean a lot to them other than sentimental value, or because it would cost them to get it on the road or have it towed away.

So keep what you got because someone really wants what you have, and if your car is running on the street already your cars is the perfect thing for most of these non car knowledgeable generation of folks to try and buy and re-sell, The Cuda is King at Barret Jackson but the new Challenger will probably change things I think if it keeps it's looks it has now, because in the new generations eyes it's looks cool like the old car it has options like a hemi, it's new and they can make payments and be on the road looking cool, and it don't cost $200,000.00

Think about it how many desired cars that came out from 64 to about 73 that have been sent to the bone yard crushed into a block of metal or cut up for scrap, I brought some parts from a guy in SC that owned a junkyard in CA, he said if the internet / ebay existed when he had a junkyard he could have made millions just off of the mopars that he scrapped for metal in his yard, the charger that I seen at his place cost him $800.00 when it was all parted out it made $6800.00 and It wasn't a body worth restoring so if you think the prices on Barret Jackson seem unreal they seem that way to you because your not in that location.

I've seen a lot in the places I've been and know better than to judge things or measure things by what I grew up around, the internet reaches the whole world, example: Norwaycharger has a highly modified 68 charger that most people will not see unless his charger is published in a magazine, but all of us board members know about all of the work before it is even completed and awaiting the finished product and one thing has made that possible the internet, so don't only judge what you think or know about cars by what's happening around you the world is much larger than your imediate area.

[69_500]

I'll put it to you like this. Last year at Carlisle there was a 1970 V code Road Runner, 4 speed car, R4 red exterior, black interior. Needed a complete restoration. Asking price was $27K to begin with, wound up selling on Saturday for $23K. If that gives you any kind of a ball park figure to go for. I have some video of the car if your wondering what kind of shape it was in. It did start up and run, but ran rough. Not numbers matching, but did have 2 buildsheets.

[Dodge-Charger]

Actually the guys like Leno and Allen are pretty savvy and won't usually waste money to prove they have a bigger collection.  They know there are a lot of good cars to be had.  The fools tend to be folks who have recently become cash flush for whatever reason and are letting their egos make the decision.

I just used thier names as an Exp. Have you ever seen the cars those guys have ? They are more on the limited number cars than anything else. You know the guy that dropped 2,000,000 on the Cuda was one of those types.

[DodgeChargerNeeded]

If you are worried about getting beat out of all the profit just jack the price up where you are comfortable and if the next guy makes a big hit with the same car more power to him as long as you got the price you wanted. You can't predict the market.

[253862656971]

Here's my take.

When the hemi clones rolling across the block start to bring more money than a true hemi car I find it incredibly difficult to take the auction prices seriously.

I think that these auction do affect price somewhat but I don't think these huge bounds in mopar values is due entirley because of the auctions.  I think the mopar prices are a bubble.  The prices are escalating rapidly but I think this bubble is on the verge of popping.  Now I'm not saying that the mopar prices are going to crash but I think we'll see them level off for a while and maybe go down a little. 

[Big Lebowski]

The yellow 1970 Six-pack Charger went for 66.9k Wow.

[hotrod98]

That auction affects people and prices more than you would think.  This week alone, I've had three guys call me wanting to buy one of my cars and one guy wanting me to build him a hemi clone from one of my unrestored cars.  As for selling my cars, I said no. As for building the hemi car, he's sending me a check now.  

[chargervert]

I have to say that the Hemi GTX clone,that sold for more than the real Hemi Belvedere,kinda baffled me! Judging by the prices there,that Belvedere was the best buy of the whole auction! All of the other original Hemi cars pulled in the big bucks though! Even the clones!

[hemihead]

I think the way you take BJ depends on whether you are buying or selling.I personally think that the market is topping out soon.Baby boomers are getting old remember.

[chargervert]

I had a guy call me the other day,out of the blue,and ask me if I still wanted to sell my 71 Challenger convertible! I think he was watching the auction,and saw the prices! This guy flips a lot of cars,so I figure he wanted to cash in on the hype! I told him I had changed my mind about selling any of the convertibles!

[Ghoste]

I agree Hemihead.  Some of these guys will be dying off soon or won't be able to drive and then we'll see how rare some of these cars are.  Hemi Cuda convertibles might be as common as supercharged Duesenburgs but how many people will pay some boomer's heir 100k for a clone?

[253862656971]

I watched last night and I saw something that really pissed me off and baffled me.

Up comes this nice black 70 hemi cuda that was a REBODY!  The damn thing sells for 400K+!  That was outrageous in my opinion.  Then shortly thereafter was Bobby Allison's 69 Daytona that he used in Nascar.  It was the real thing authenticated by Bobby himself.  The damn thing sells for 300K!!!  WTF?!  If I had the money I would have owned that car and I probably would have went to at least 500K if need be.  I just don't understand these idiots. 

[hotrod98]

The thing about auctions is it takes at least two people to want the same car. If only one of the guys has unlimited funds, then the car can only go as high as the available fund of the other bidder. If you have two guys with unlimited funds and enlarged egos, then you get 4.2 million dollars for a totally useless bus. Funny how that works. Either of those guys could have bought the other bus being restored in Michigan for 1/4 of that price or less, but then their faces wouldn't have been plastered all over the world on Speed TV.

[Ghoste]

If they're new, all it takes is one.  You'd be amazed at how many of those guys bid against the house because they don't pay attention to the ringmen and their hand signals.
Sometimes it takes zero.  If the house wants a record price set for the publicity, no one need buy it all.  Rarely do the auction houses publish who actually purchase these cars.

[253862656971]

Oh yeah what was the deal with that bus?  Steve Jackson got up there after the Bobby Allison daytona and said something about how they sold the bus when another bidder thought he was in but it's all resolved now.  I didn't understand that.  I also saw a lot of backing up because the auctioneer took someone's bid who wasn't bidding.  Now I know this happens on occasion but I saw it happen far too much in the little bit of BJ I watched.  The last time I saw something like that was when I was at a Kruse auction.  I could see those guys pulling bids from thin air! 

[Ghoste]

Sometimes the auctioneer will drop the hammer without realizing that a bidder is still on a car.  The bidding from thin air doesn't just happen on occasion, it happens a LOT!  On nearly every car unless the crowd is really crazy for it.  If the ringmen are experienced, you have to watch for a while before you find out what their hand signals are for real money and soft bids.