Anyone else waiting (impatiently) for this REV-N-NATOR to start selling?

[b5blue]

Here ya go Bull.....problem solved! 

[Musicman]

OH yeah... that'd be the one for sure

[Nacho-RT74]

the boxes ran hot & overheated the coil causing no restart conditions. Yes dear they were well grounded etc etc etc etc...

This was not the issue that I had...  and Nacho will tell you how his last 2 chrome boxes failed... everyone has failures.
The old boxes are no longer made anyway so it's just good conversation at this point.

as I stated on my other thread ( in car guys discussion, since I didn't think it was really an ELECTRICAL discussion ):

to buy or not to buy, that is the question

I liked A LOT chromed box and FBO... the time they worked! ( the one what just last longed 24 hours was really GREAT LOL )... and I was ready to get another Chromed, but this Rev-N-Nator release email stoped me from buy the Chromed and think on get or not the Rev-N-Nator

[bull]

Here ya go Bull.....problem solved! 

I'm going to try NOS instead. Just pour it in the tank and go.

[Musicman]

 

[Musicman]

I would appear that when attempting, or forcing High Performance gains from a standard style ECU's the old rule of physics still applies... 
"The light that burns twice as bright, burns half as long"

[Nacho-RT74]

thats what I'm affraid LOL

[cuda66273]

I'm impressed that several of you guy's have actually questioned the claims of massive HP gains with the Rev-n-ator.  I had a discussion with Troy on this subject....

Look at the dyno sheets on his webpage if no changes were made then why do the A/F ratios change?
There's more in those sheets so study them and you'll see what I mean.

We've tested or attempted to test 2 of them and were unable to complete testing on either so no results available until we can complete the testing. We can tell you and this is verified in a discussion with Troy, you can drive through the REV Limiter it causes cylinders to miss-fire but when set at the low end we were able to run the distributor machine to 6000. I have no further comments on the Rev-N-Nator.

Our HRR688 IS NOT A HEImodule.  It's built on a Level 5 Electronics circuit board.  Engineered by Chris Schroeder (Crane Electronics, Daytona-Sensors and others) Chris is an automotive electronics genius and has been engineering and building exceptional automotive electronics for over 25 years.

The HRR688 uses an Algorithm type Rev Limiter similar to MSD, Crane and many others and is what is commonly known by many as a Soft-Touch.  You can not drive through this Rev Limiter if you set it at 6000 you will not be able to push the motor above that number.  The cylinders cut out in this algorithm  pattern so they don't drop any 2 cylinders together in the firing order.

Coils are designed to work with whatever type of ignition system you're using, MSD Had the Blaster coils developed by Andover in Indiana years ago to work best with their CD Ignition (Capacitor Discharge) of course like most American Company's they've now taken that design offshore to produce it cheaper and along with the quality more American Jobs have been lost.

We stock coils in various configurations to optimize the output potential of different types of ignition control systems, .6, 1.5, 3.0, 3.5 Ohm and the square type epoxy coils for CD Ignition.  As was stated in this post, coils are specific to the application and although most will interchange as a temporary patch the system will be optimized when using the correct coil for the application.  Unless you have a distributor machine and a way of measuring output under max load and normal cruise you should stick with the manufacturers recommendation when it comes to coils.

You can run a Daytona CD-1 or CD-Pro on a stock coil but it will overheat very quickly as it's not designed as an Inverter. On the other side you can run a CD coil with a stock ECU and it'll run, not very well but it will run the engine.

The FBO Coil that we've used for years and was designed and built by Andover for our ECU in the USA and is an excellent coil for it's specific application but not the best for the HRR688 Box, will it work? ...Of course, will it maintain max output? No, the HRR688 box will cause the coil to overheat because of the increased voltage and fall off.  Coil temps and voltage drops were also mentioned earlier in this post (Good Job!).

The recent article in a Mopar magazine in my opinion is skewed only a few columns of the full Dyno sheet are shown so there's no way to know what was actually done to the engine to get the numbers.  Did they use the same coil for each test, was that the best coil for the ECU used?

My experience with print media is if you buy the advertising they'll print anything you want so I put very little to no faith in what they publish.

Other statements to clarify:

I am the only one who answers the Chat Live system
I answer the phone 99.5% of the time, I'm here from 6am to 4pm and most mornings I'm in at 4am servicing our European dealers, occasionally I'll take a 30 minute lunch break only maybe 4 times a year.

Last year we curved and repaired over 2000 distributors, I think we have a reasonably good understanding of your ignition system.

If you have any issues or questions on our products just jump on the Live Chat, email me or call, I'll answer your questions quickly and correctly so no miss-information gets into the Internet Rumor mill.

[rtgarage]

Hello,
    We here at the R/T Garage have tried to stay away from the online bashing. But in this case when someone is flat out lying trying to make him and his product look superior AND LIE about our product THE REV-N-NATOR!!  We will start from the top of Dons bashing from FBO. He says look at the dyno sheets and air fuel ratio's? If any of you have been to Moparts you saw the early Dyno sheets we posted prematurly. They were true back to back tests, the motor had 32 degress of timing. What we found out a week after the pulls, we picked up about 3 degress of timing that acounted for the bigger numbers over MSD (now corrected). Also the dyno A/F numbers were all over because he was having troubles with the readings on his dyno at the time. We posted the dynosheets because, ya we were very excited at the time, and 2 years into R & D. Looking back, we should have held all info until all testing was completed. Like I said you can follow all the bumps and bruises  from early on in Moparts. Not to mention you can find out plenty about FBOs past and reputation!
     As for him testing the Rev-n-nator and saying he could not complete testing & said you can drive thru our rev-limiter? B.S. (if you notice he says distributor machine) He is using a bench simulater. The Rev-n-nator has been in hundreds of real world engine dyno's and chassis dyno's!!! The rev-limiter is spot on and works perfect!! Most rev-limiters shut down all sparks once they exceed the rev-limit setting. On a bench top tester you will see we still have spark past the limit setting, we did this on purpose and works flawlessly and will not drive thru in the real world on a running engine!!
     Now we can skip down to his comments about Mopar Muscle Nov. 2012 3,2,1, ignition. Keith Dunneck was an indendent tester that did an article for Mopar Muscle. He offered to test our box early on, and you can read about this on Moparts. Keith is a very stand up guy, was paid nothing and has never asked for anything!! Mopar muscle asked him if he would test true plug in factory type ignition box's. Now I suppose he could of mentioned the other black box you see, was an older FBO unit, that did not perform very well!!( His latest box was unvailable at the time of testing.)
    Next, we have never paid or run an advertisment in Mopar Muscle yet! But soon we will. So needless to say, they did not run that article because we advertise in them. Mopar Collector Guide ran articles about us before we advertised with them also.
    Like I said, really do not like getting in these pissing match's. Im not going around in chat rooms trying to find FBO and rip on his product. My wife and I take pride in our product, thats why we have a 3 year warranty or money back guarantee!!! You call, you will reach my wife or me. Troy 612-327-6722 or Laura 952-356-4969. You can check our website out at (thertgarage)  We have 400 + units in cars with awesome results!! I have been in the mopar resto business for 25 years and a die hard drag racer that runs a mid 9 sec 4000lbs 4spd charger on 10 street tires!! The Rev-n-nator has been thru hundreds of engine and chassis dyno's and have kicked butt over any factory Chrysler box. Not to mention who qualified #1 in the fast class, Dave Duddack with a Rev-n-nator. He also made 16 more rear wheel H.P. with the Rev-n-nator.
                                                                        The R/T Garage

[cuda66273]

Whatever Troy you have at it and enjoy yourself.

[Nacho-RT74]

I have used both and I only can post MY experience, without an actual technical language or real technical based experiment, just my perception on my street car.

with the FBO combo ( A688 ECU and coil ) the car started up faster

with the Rev-N-Nator and MSD Blaster 2 chromed coil the car revs up way better

Both tested on my stroked engine, although the Rev-N-Nator was never tested on my stock 400

The FBO ECU was used around 6 or 7 months ( as far I recall ) of EFFECTIVE work while I was using my car as driver, Then took appart ( around 7 months ) to build my stroked engine, and run the FBO combo again for 2 months. Same great start up. Shame on me, just last longed those 2 months. Thanks God was on the 2 years guarantee and Don recognized me that ( GREAT CUSTOMER SERVICE )

The Ignition system began to fail with the Rev-N-Nator, but, discovered it was the FBO coil ( which it was what I kept on my car when instaled the Rev-N-Nator ) begining to fail really. It looks they didn't match very well ( THAT WAS MY EXPERIENCE, dunno the reason but thats MY fact. ). The FBO coil worked GREAT with the rest of modules used though.

My initial intention wit Rev-N-Nator was keep the stock apperance. My engine is FULL STOCK LOOK DOWN THE HOOD. IF some performance gain, BETTER. Really did! Simply reach AT LEAST the Chromed or FBO Performance was enough for me, but what I got was better than expected. However I paid what I paid on the first release Rev-N-Nator, basically for the stock look. Thanks God, last year was good enough for me on my job to be able to pay it, because was not "cheap", at least for me ( money exchange is against me when I try to buy )

The first HR688 with the GM module inside like some members of this board found, was a big mistake Don,  I think that it was what screw you down on the ECU market. I never have lie you the couple of times we have talked on your Chat box... and in fact like I have said around and I think also told you on your chat, PERSONALLY I'll never buy a fancy box with an GM module inside, where in fact that's something I can make personally on any old stock Box I have laying around ( I have the skills ), and getting a performance GM module inside, keeping the stock look, spending just maybe $50

Of course when I needed URGENT a GOOD QUALITY Module, the Rev-N-Nator floated on the emails subscriptions ( I was ), and the HR688 deal was being discused at the time, and I had to decide with one of those. I very well was the Guinea Pig on the Rev-N-Nator specially being overseas. I think my Rev-N-Nator could be very well the first one being used overseas ( serial number 20 ). I had to.

I have to say, that I have got a good customers experience with Troy and Laura by email too ( I have promised to Laura some updated pics of my car and I stil own that )

Meanwhile I have beeing fixing couple of chromed ECU boxes I got damaged with relativelly success. It was the big Transistor. But I haven't been able to find a GOOD transistor ( not a chinese junk ) with matching specs. Maybe is the same on the FBO but I don't want to touch it. Not at least now.

taking at a side MY experience, I think is just time to the facts talk, and when the HRR688s take the market lost by the HR688, simply will be an option more like the MSDs or ProCom, Or Accel are ( and now the Rev-N-Nator ). Everyone publish his own specs and test.

The customers will decide.

On a side note, on my ECU emergency I even made to test the Rick Ehrenberg HI-REV box WHICH BY THE PRICE IS A GREAT UNIT!!!! just that I don't really know if its nothing more than a Standard LX101 piece labeled ( LOL... not saying it is, but how to know it ? ). I can't really say if really beats the Chromed box like Rick advertises 'cause I never gets my car to hi revs ( barelly 4500 couple of times maybe ? ), but I can tell on the crank up, didn't made better than the Chromed or the A688, just like a stock piece. Is at this moment my spare box, allong with an OLD COBRA box ( which is I think now the same Filko CH500 being sold on ebay)

[Nacho-RT74]

and there is another fact...

MANUFACTURERS WERE FORGETTING THE GUYS LIKE ME, WHAT LOVES THE STOCK LOOK WITH BUILT IN PERFORMANCE. The only option we had was MP, which has being failing on that due the durability.

Troy is getting that market, no matter the reality of his published test, more or less there is a performance gain against ANY pure stock box on a more less stock car... like Don did back in the years with the A688, but not able anymore because his manufacturer left the States.

[JB400]

I've been wondering how these would compare to the orange or chrome box.  My family has always been a fan of the chrome box.

[mhinders]

It's obvious that the dyno charts showed at the beginning of this thread cannot be compared, and are useless in that sense.
As somebody stated previously, the A/F ratio in the Rev-N-ator chart is set spot-on for optimum performance, while the engine in the 2 other charts is running way too lean.

[Nacho-RT74]

I've been wondering how these would compare to the orange or chrome box.  My family has always been a fan of the chrome box.

I can tell you... I have run EVERYONE, but on street use, not race. Mopar boxes, kinda similar to the FBO, starts up more less faster than the Rev-N-Nator, but the Rev-N-Nator revs up WAAAAY BETTER and iddles better too.

[mhinders]

I've been wondering how these would compare to the orange or chrome box.  My family has always been a fan of the chrome box.

I can tell you... I have run EVERYONE, but on street use, not race. Mopar boxes, kinda similar to the FBO, starts up more less faster than the Rev-N-Nator, but the Rev-N-Nator revs up WAAAAY BETTER and iddles better too.

The well performing ignition system has to be composed of parts that fit together.
- Any excellent electronic box can be transformed into a poor performer with a technically unsuitable coil, and any excellent coil can become a poor performer with an unsuitable electronic box!

[Musicman]

The well performing ignition system has to be composed of parts that fit together.
- Any excellent electronic box can be transformed into a poor performer with a technically unsuitable coil, and any excellent coil can become a poor performer with an unsuitable electronic box!

Well said, and so very true! Which is why some folks want to sell you the complete package and not just one part. If Troy tells you to use this coil and not that one, it's because they have done the testing and found that this is what works best. If Don tells you to get rid of your old FBO coil and replace it with the new model when buying a new HRR688 ignition, there's a reason for it. Of course, all this is for nothing if your Dizzy isn't right either... as stated above, all the parts have to fit and work together.


As for the other foolishness… I have read Don’s post, as well as Troy’s

Personally… I think that if Don wants to clarify a few misconceptions concerning his own product here..”Our HRR688 IS NOT A HEI module”… well that’s all fine and dandy, he certainly has the right to defend himself, his product, and his name. More power to him! However, I don’t feel it was appropriate for him to comment one way or another on matters concerning the validity of any test data surrounding the Rev-n-nator, especially when he himself admits that he has not as of yet done any meaningful testing. This was beneath him and unprofessional in my opinion. The rest of us here are just a bunch of nobodies, we can say whatever we like and get away with it, but guys like Don & Troy don’t have that luxury. Don hints to his distain for the Internet Rumor Mill, but that’s just what this is. Bottom line… I like Don, he’s a smart guy and he has done a lot for us over the years, but whether he means to or not, he does have a nasty habit of stepping on other peoples toes from time to time... which often leads to the old proverbial open mouth, insert foot routine.

I think Troy may have taken the situation a little too much to heart, but that is very often the end result in situations like this where the printed word must be interpreted, so God Bless Him, he has the right to defend himself just as much as the next guy. It’s his product and his good name on the line here after all. Troy & Laura have taken a huge gamble here, and they don’t need uncalled-for comments from the rumor mill dragging them down. Innocent until proven guilty.

My own thoughts on the matter… however inappropriate.

Troys advertising states, and I quote...

The Rev-n-nator is a true plug and bolt in factory appearing I.C.M. (AKA: Brain Box) that has been completely re-engineered with digital technology!

Troy showed me an early pre-production model of his unit at a car show once, so I have seen the guts of the REV-N-NATOR with my own eyes. That said, I can state unequivocally that the statement quoted above is true. The only reason this unit resembles a standard Mopar ECU is because Troy wanted it to look like one, hence the words “Factory Appearing”

Troy's advertising also states, and I quote...

You will see an average of 10-40 HP increase over the factory Orange and Chrome boxes.

Maybe I just assumed it was common knowledge, but any box that will "accurately" trigger a good ignition system while maintaining “accurate” timing into the higher rpm bands will outperform a stock Mopar box… Chrysler purposely designed their boxes with high end limitations, especially the Orange Box… When you bought a car it came with something called a Warranty, specifically the Engine/Drivetrain Warranty. Do really think Chrysler would be stupid enough to install a High Performance ignition system on an otherwise stock engine? Of course not, they’d be replacing engines faster than they could build them! Manufacturers still do the same thing today, only now we use chips and computer codes..LOL. They offered HP alternatives to the performance minded community yes, but it was clearly stated that the installation of said products would automatically null & void all warranties, just as it is today. Troy & Don both knows this, so is it really that hard to believe Troy’s claims that his product will deliver 10-40 HP over a stock ECU. Troy’s testing clearly shows these gains are at the higher end of the rpm scale, approaching 6000 rpm which is well out of reach for a stock unit like the Orange box. If my stock orange box didn’t start falling off at 3500 it would perform much better too, but it does…  it was designed that way. Chrome boxes are a little better of course, but I believe that’s why Troy’s claim states 10-40 hp… maybe closer to 10 for Chrome, and closer to 40 for the orange.
In reality I’m sure Don could make the same claims in his advertising, but has chosen not too. Probably to avoid the same kind of crap that Troy has been dealing with. As the new kid on the block however, Troy has not had a lot of choice in the matter. It’s been sink or swim for Troy & Laura. Anyone who followed the posts over on Moparts knows this. He had to show something!

Troy has openly admitted to being a little overzealous when posting the early Dyno information, and has since clarified that information. Don was a little quick on the draw a year or two ago as well with the introduction of his “HR688” unit (not to be confused with the HRR688) so I do not see any point in arguing here… we all make hasty decisions from time to time which can lead us to regret.

The Rev Limiter…

Don states that he could drive through the Rev Limiter on his distributor machine, and Troy states that won’t happen in a real world application. Who’s right… I’m sure they both are.

Don put the unit on a test bench to get ignition data, test equipment designed to simulate actual running conditions, but not a running engine. In the process he purportedly tried to drive the limiter beyond the point where it would start to misfire, just to see if you could physically drive through it, which he did, “apparently” breaking two units in the process. Personally, I would have contacted Troy before doing any testing. Better yet, invite Troy over to the shop for testing and a couple of beers.

Troy argues that in the real world once the Rev Limiter kicks in, your engine won’t want to play anymore.

I tested the Rev-N-Nator Limiter on my own test stand with an actual engine… The Rev Limiter works, it’s that simple. If it didn’t, you would have heard about it long before now. Could you drive through if you wanted too? Maybe, but I’m sure the engine will run like a one legged pony on a pogo stick if you do, so what would be the point. Needless to say, I haven’t tried.

I have used, and will continue to use products from both of these guys, and I am very thankful for their efforts to improve our little Mopar world. Without folks like this, where would we all be? I don’t think most people realizes just how much time, money, and effort is poured into such endeavors.

The REV-N-NATOR is a great alternative to the old Mopar units in my opinion. It costs more yes, but if you want better performance, with a couple of extra bells and whistles, while still maintaining the stock look and feel of the old Mopar ECU ignition, the Rev-N-Nator is a good choice.

I haven’t tested one yet, but for those who are not as concerned about stock appearances, and still want those extra bells and whistles, Don’s new HRR688 ECU/Coil kit looks like another good alternative. It costs more than the Rev-N-Nator yes, but the idea of having no Ballast Resistor to worry about is incentive enough to drive many folks his way, and it’s still cheaper than some.

Some folks might look at these two camps as competitors, but when you stop and look at their current products, this is really not the case. If Don was still selling the old A688 ignition that would be another story, but he’s not. They both sell alternative ignition systems, but so does everyone else.

I know I'm going to regret this later, but I'm hitting the POST button now...



P.S. :
I took a quick look at Don's site after typing this. He now has pictures showing the guts of his new HRR688 on there... it's definitely not a GM HEI style looking unit anymore. It's been completely redesigned.

[Nacho-RT74]

after this, I don't have anymore to say or add. Even less, with someone talking better english than me

I just tried to share my rookie experience and perceptions on this

[bull]

Wow, this thread got exciting.

[randy73]

Musicman, all I can say is WOW. So few people will stand up and be HONEST, refreshing to see!!

That is the best part of this thread, Nacho same goes for you. So nice to see somebody standing up for their principles!!!!

[bull]

Don states that he could drive through the Rev Limiter on his distributor machine, and Troy states that won't happen in a real world application. Who's right... I'm sure they both are.

Don put the unit on a test bench to get ignition data, test equipment designed to simulate actual running conditions, but not a running engine. In the process he purportedly tried to drive the limiter beyond the point where it would start to misfire, just to see if you could physically drive through it, which he did, "apparently" breaking two units in the process. Personally, I would have contacted Troy before doing any testing. Better yet, invite Troy over to the shop for testing and a couple of beers.

Troy argues that in the real world once the Rev Limiter kicks in, your engine won't want to play anymore.

I tested the Rev-N-Nator Limiter on my own test stand with an actual engine... The Rev Limiter works, it's that simple. If it didn't, you would have heard about it long before now. Could you drive through if you wanted too? Maybe, but I'm sure the engine will run like a one legged pony on a pogo stick if you do, so what would be the point. Needless to say, I haven't tried.

Right. The point of a rev limiter, as I understand it, is to protect the engine from overrevving and causing itself damage - not to prevent prolonged overrevving for as long as it takes to ruin the module. As a driver in a real world scenario let's say I'm banging through the gears in my 4 speed Charger and I miss 3rd but hammer the throttle. The rev limiter is supposed to disrupt the firing sequence long enough for me to figure out I need to let off and try again. Why would I expect it to last if I decided to keep my foot in it for the next two minutes while I coast to a stop? I don't see how pushing one of these REV-N-NATOR modules to meltdown mode has anything to do with a typical street application. Even if a total moron kept his foot in it for two minutes and melted the module the engine would die (because the spark would quit) and the module would have done its job, correct? He may be calling the tow truck and buying a new module but his engine would still be in one piece. Anything is going to fail if you push it beyond its design limits long enough.

[Musicman]

There are rev limiters designed for different purposes, launches for example...  The limiter on the Rev-n-nater works just fine for it's intended purpose.

[johnnycharger]

so how many people in here on this now and would recommend it?

[mhinders]

....Even if a total moron kept his foot in it for two minutes and melted the module the engine would die (because the spark would quit) and the module would have done its job, correct?...

I don't know how the Rev-N-Ator is designed, but generally speaking keeping your foot to the floor and keeping the rev-limiter active all the time would do no harm whatsoever to the electronic module. It's a very simple function to just stop all/some sparks (or use an "algorithm"  ), whatever way the designer choose to do it.

[rtgarage]

Hello,
   We have a kool video of lauras REV-N-NATOR Charger going to Church! A very modern church asked if we could bring a cool hot rod, for a sermon they wanted to do. We set the Rev-n-nator at the 5,000RPM limit. And it was a good thing, you can hear it bouncing off the limiter when the Pastor pulls out on stage and starts revving it up. Click on the link and give it a minute to start. 

http://vimeo.com/57876323