worst place for a freeze plug in the world.

[RGA]

  I finnaly got my charger running (69 RT) with a freshened up 440. Hadn't run much yet but ran exhuast today and ran it a little bit. Then I saw some coolant on my header pipes and found 2 of my freeze plugs are seeping. These are the ones behind the headers, have to pull headers to get to, have to pull motor to pull headers  . When I replaced these things before I stabbed the motor I was dreading having a problem, can't believe they put these freeze plugs in such a crappy spot. This is why all mechanics have problems with engineers. All engineers should have to spend time as a mechanic before designing anything on a car. I do not want to pull this motor back out

[skip68]

I agree.    Not enough thought for maintenance is done in the design room.   It's that way with pretty much everything.   

[General_01]

They were designed with the regular exhaust in mind. The exhaust would not be in the way with HP exhaust manifolds.

[squeakfinder]

     Your wright. They didn't come with headers. But it still gets me thinking about all the the things I've ran into that were a problem dealing with because of the engineering.

[Chryco Psycho]

I would still rather change those than the ones inside the belhousing

[General_01]

I would still rather change those than the ones inside the belhousing

[Patronus]

From the title of this thread I was expecting much worse.

[Rolling_Thunder]

I would still rather change those than the ones inside the belhousing

BEEN THERE / DONE THAT

[RallyeMike]

They were designed with the regular exhaust in mind

The engineer's also figured a good mechanic would check them and replace bad ones while the engine was out 

Ok, seriously though.... I don't think there is any good place for all the freeze plugs so that they can be changed with the engine in the car.

The cheap in-the-car-repair that can usually be done is to knock the plug into the block, clean the hole, and insert a rubber expandable plug. Not as good as a brass plug for sure, but maybe it will last until the next time you have to pull the engine? I've done this on several junkers over the years and you can usually loosen up enough stuff, and shift it around to get the job done.

[grdprx]

They were designed with the regular exhaust in mind

The engineer's also figured a good mechanic would check them and replace bad ones while the engine was out 

Ok, seriously though.... I don't think there is any good place for all the freeze plugs so that they can be changed with the engine in the car.

The cheap in-the-car-repair that can usually be done is to knock the plug into the block, clean the hole, and insert a rubber expandable plug. Not as good as a brass plug for sure, but maybe it will last until the next time you have to pull the engine? I've done this on several junkers over the years and you can usually loosen up enough stuff, and shift it around to get the job done.

I went this route, per RalleyMike's suggestion.  Has worked well!  One question though, any idea how long the rubber plug may last?  Other than replacing the brass plug, I have no reason to pull the engine currently.  And I've only been able to put maybe 60 miles on the car this past year...

[RallyeMike]

My first 69 Charger was a daily driver and it was still holding after 5 years when I sold it. You can go in and tighten them up, so I think they are as good as long as the rubber does not start to get brittle. How long.... 

Wassup grdprx! 

[Cooter]

This is why you never run old freeze plugs that are a PITA to get at once the car is running. Think this is bad? Try installing a fuel tank sender in a BMW...
Or a 3.8 V6 in a Dodge mini van..Or a heater core in anything beyond 1978...Or a rear exhaust manifold that has an integrated converter on a DOHC V6 in a Ford Escape...Or........

[FLG]

Eh, not to bad...i had a hard time fishing a freeze plug out of a block one time...someone had pushed it so far in it fell into the water jacket area...luckily the engine was on a stand, i rotated it and hear it moving around...better i found it before the thing was in!

As for cooter, thankfully never had to do any of that 

One thing, i do have a bmw 325is (87')....the thing has to be one of the simplest and best designed cars ive worked on. Did timing belt/wp in about an hour and a half (was first time, so fricken easy!) you do have to take the hood off since it opens forward and is a pain if you leave it on...but besides that, everything was so well designed and placed that it was a pleasure working on it. Even removing/tightening the accessory belts was a 1 man operation (no need to have a buddy hold it tight) the accessories have this geared nut, and matching gears on the arms that hold em, turn the nut and they tighten the belt, snug up the rest of the bolts and bam your good to go. Seems theres no "hidden" crap, so far everything ive done with the car was very very straight forward.

[Cooter]

Sorry FLG for the mistake. I forgot to mention the year of BMW..2004 with what they refer to as "Saddle" tanks..

[gtx6970]

are the new or  old core plugs ?

if they're new they might seal up with a few engine heat cycles

[miller time]

might be able to stick some rubber plugs in there for a few weeks to delay the motor pulling

[Surf Charger]

I just replaced mine withe the engine still in. I'll post some pics on the easiest way I found to do it. It wasn't bad at all in my opinion. Used the side of a hammer and a hole punch to get them out. Tapped the new ones in the same way with a socket. I also added some sealant around the outside of the plug as several people suggested on the forums...

[Surf Charger]

This is why you never run old freeze plugs that are a PITA to get at once the car is running. Think this is bad? Try installing a fuel tank sender in a BMW...
Or a 3.8 V6 in a Dodge mini van..Or a heater core in anything beyond 1978...Or a rear exhaust manifold that has an integrated converter on a DOHC V6 in a Ford Escape...Or........

Also try replacing anything on a '93 VW Corrado w/ the VR6 engine crammed in there....def a pain in the arse. After owning that car for 9 years and having the coolant problems its had...I can have the entire bumper, radiator support, etc off with engine exposed in 10 min.

[elacruze]

In the engineers' defense, they put those *CORE* plugs where they need to be for the casting process to work. They are there only to drain the casting sand.
They are not  *freeze* plugs at all. The fact that they sometimes push out when a block freezes is incidental, not designed.

And no, I would never assemble a fresh engine without replacing every plug, and with brass ones. Not only because they may fail, but because you can't properly clean and flush the cooling passages with them in.

[ACUDANUT]

I just replaced mine withe the engine still in. I'll post some pics on the easiest way I found to do it. It wasn't bad at all in my opinion. Used the side of a hammer and a hole punch to get them out. Tapped the new ones in the same way with a socket. I also added some sealant around the outside of the plug as several people suggested on the forums...

Surf charger, I think your engine looks a little tired.

[RGA]

Wow, didn't think I would get that much on some freeze plugs.
I did replace these with new ones while the engine was out. The old ones were completely corroded and leaking. Sometimes these brass plugs don't seal due to the hole being pitted or slightly corroded and the only thing  you can do is use those rubber expansion plugs. I didn't want to use those because they're are close to the exhaust I wasn't sure how the rubber would hold up to the heat, also those are a temporary fix ( not permanent).
The problem isn't just pulling the motor, it's that its all new paint on engine and compartment, loctite on all header bolts and flanges. No room with headers so I know the paints gonna get scratched.
Yes Cooter BMW fuel pumps are hard, escapes are hard (alternators on v6 impossible) and so on. There are lots of hard jobs out there. I own and operate a small repair shop in Albuquerque and we do everything ( this morning ------ alignment on mini cooper, radiator on ford truck, rear main on Lexus, tune up on suburban, carburetor on old Mercedes).

These freeze plugs still suck.

[lisiecki1]

This is why you never run old freeze plugs that are a PITA to get at once the car is running. Think this is bad? Try installing a fuel tank sender in a BMW...
Or a 3.8 V6 in a Dodge mini van..Or a heater core in anything beyond 1978...Or a rear exhaust manifold that has an integrated converter on a DOHC V6 in a Ford Escape...Or........

I can do the heater core in my 92 f150 in about 20 minutes.  Suprised the hell out of me how easy it was.  Most other heater core jobs bite the big one though.....Have to pull the dash on my third gen supra to replace a heater core in it 

[djcarguy]

try some aluminum powder stop leak,before you go pulling the engine,for a small leak??   if worried bout heater core just by pass loop the hoses..     i sure would try stop leak before pulling it apart?/


  i have changed many of them.   best 1 the topper is back of head on a new install, was able to melt it with cutting torch to get it out,melts way before cast can get hurt, and install rubber plug.made a steel bracket to help hold it in,just in case. always use sealer on all metal plugs. but not rubber ones,big mess........good luck

[Magnumcharger]

I could never understand why they wouldn't make them screw-in frost plugs, like on the Boss 302?

[Cooter]

I could never understand why they wouldn't make them screw-in frost plugs, like on the Boss 302?

Prolly due to the fact that they would never come out....Ever tried to remove one in the car on a "Boss" block? I have, and they do suck..No room for impact at all.

[djcarguy]

    cost to make screw in anything and times how many holes?    they are non freeze or frost plugs ,just for the cast core and clean out casting core sand.
   hate the one in back of block, but it has got me some free cars as people give up and get rid of car when  they hear cost and hasle to fix them

[Surf Charger]

Surf charger, I think your engine looks a little tired.

Thanks for the positive encouragement. I just got my charger a few weeks back so I have not had the time to put the love and devotion into mine that others here have. But I'm trying. The engine runs great...compression is great. Cosmetically not cleaned up yet.

[six-tee-nine]

This is why you never run old freeze plugs that are a PITA to get at once the car is running. Think this is bad? Try installing a fuel tank sender in a BMW...
Or a 3.8 V6 in a Dodge mini van..Or a heater core in anything beyond 1978...Or a rear exhaust manifold that has an integrated converter on a DOHC V6 in a Ford Escape...Or........

Also try replacing anything on a '93 VW Corrado w/ the VR6 engine crammed in there....def a pain in the arse. After owning that car for 9 years and having the coolant problems its had...I can have the entire bumper, radiator support, etc off with engine exposed in 10 min.



Try working on any modern Euro car....Almost in every case you need to disassemble almost half the thing before you can get started on what's really the issue...
Do'nt even want to start about the environmental add-ons that make the engine bay even more full today....

Again Surf, really nice car.

[rt green]

if useing steel plugs, coat the sides and back with silicone gasket sealer. let it set up a bit. shouldnt rust out

[miller time]

is it possible to tap a freeze plug hole and put plug in it?