The demise of FM rock

[1970Moparmann]

Ugh, 35 years in radio.  It is sad to see the business I once loved go down the tubes like it has.   
FCC to blame but I could go on about this all day.
Sirius/XM folks. You can listen to anything you want.

I would like to know more of what the FCC is doing....   

Radio in Chicago sucks.  Over the years each good station has gone to crap or change formats. 

[RallyeMike]

FM Rock is dying because the radio biz is hurting overall, and face it..... we're getting old. It reminds me of my Dad's search for any station that would play Big Band music until he was down to just one lousy AM station..... and then none.

Ugh, 35 years in radio.  It is sad to see the business I once loved go down the tubes like it has.   Cry
FCC to blame but I could go on about this all day.

The biz is going down the tubes because of many factors, but I think primarily (in order):

1. Economic conditions,  
2. Competition and choice via technology (Sirius, Pandora, iPods, iPhones, etc....),
3. Corporate homogenization and programming based on research and formulas rather than creativity.  

The FCC is one of the factors, though I'd like to hear your take on why you would name the FCC primarily to blame. Take away FCC issues, and the above issues still have placed the stranglehold on the industry that is killing it.

The cutbacks due to revenue losses have been very significant in the last 2+ years, but most people say that the industry had started circling the drain prior to that.  My spouse and some of our friends are/were in radio for most of their adult lives and now many of them are no longer. It's sad to see the decline.

[The70RT]

I agree with Mike. I have noticed oldies use to be rock of the 50's  & 60's, then stations fazed them out to oldies being rock of the 70"s & 80's. Rock of the last 20 years just isn't as popular with the young crowd listening to rap crap and alternative. I noticed some are turning to country more than rock too. That's what I have gathered working in a high school for the last 20 years anyway. Kinda like our old cars they just don't have the interest. Most of us just want to live im the past.....at least I do.

[MoparManJim]

Here is Clarion County, we have 103.03 FM radio that plays good old songs.

[bull]

I agree with Mike. I have noticed oldies use to be rock of the 50's  & 60's, then stations fazed them out to oldies being rock of the 70"s & 80's. Rock of the last 20 years just isn't as popular with the young crowd listening to rap crap and alternative. I noticed some are turning to country more than rock too. That's what I have gathered working in a high school for the last 20 years anyway. Kinda like our old cars they just don't have the interest. Most of us just want to live im the past.....at least I do.

I don't necessarily agree. I know lots of kids age 10-25 who like listening to 70s and 80s rock, moreso than my generation listened to 50s and 60s rock. My dad's music used to raise my ire when I was a kid, and then he started singing along and made it even worse. But my kids really enjoy the stuff I listened to when I was in my mid teens to mid 20s.

[ODZKing]

Well, I hope this doesn't get too long on my part.
I would agree with all those other issues including the economy.  However, there are other issues at play.
The FCC at one point decided that too many stations owned by one comapny in the same market was not good for compitition.  That was early 80's when many had to split.  One I worked for in fact, that was split off from a fairly large company that had an AM, FM, vhf-TV, and both newspapers in town.
They sold the AM/FM to one company, which is where I was. The TV to another and kept the newspapers.
Radio was booming.  Lots of competition made all the stations better.  
Then a few years ago, because of the bitching from the big companys, and I'm sure politics were in on it too ... they said (pretty much) OK, we goofed. Now you can own ALL the stations you want.  Here, Clear Channel for example owns 2 AM and 5 FM's. (They just sold the TV they had) Another big company who's Name escapes me right now owns 1 AM and 3 FM's.  And Yet another 4 FM's and 2 AM's.
Clear Channel has cleaned house of most of their staff, as has the second company just the other day in fact.
To complicate matters, the FCC no longer requires stations to have a "human" man the stations.  As long as they have facilities for the transmitter to call an engineer or notify SOMEONE that it is either under or over power or off all together, most stations ... there is nobody there except mornings and possibly afternoons - on the air I mean. Yes, most of the time you are listening to a person who tracked their voice hours before into a computer which will play all the songs at the right time. Except for talk radio, but much of that is national via satellite.  The same is for TV btw on monitoring transmitters.  
So all of these things have made owners rich, employees salaries go down AND they're made to feel like they should be happy to have a job.
There are no longer FCC rules about how much news and public affairs you have to run.  There are no longer rules about community involvement.
Oh, and in order to make more money, they don't sell the way they used to.  It used to be, good ratings, lots of sales for a higher rate.  Now, they sell the stations based on how many stations they have and the bullshit they tell the advertisers about their listenership - based on COMBINING all their stations, when really, you can only listen to one at a time. "Oh well, if you buy this station for this rediculous amount of money, we'll throw in the station that nobody listens to for free!" They call that 'added value' when it should be called a load of crap.  I've always hated that term added value.
So where is the insentive to do well and play what people want to hear?  Where are all the entertaining announcers?
You would think in a time of CD's, Ipods and MP3 players not to mention XM in cars and homes they would want to "entertain" an audience.  Give people something they can't get from and MP3 player or Ipod.  But as long as they are making money, that will never happen.  And they are making more than EVER.
Ratings, incidently - and I can't speak for all markets - they are awful here.  Clear Channel took the number 1 and 2 stations here, and they are now 3 and 6. And the former number one (now 6) is a 100,000 watt FM giant.
I tell people often, television never killed radio, radio killed radio!
I hope I didn't miss anything.  You asked ...  

[The70RT]

I agree with Mike. I have noticed oldies use to be rock of the 50's  & 60's, then stations fazed them out to oldies being rock of the 70"s & 80's. Rock of the last 20 years just isn't as popular with the young crowd listening to rap crap and alternative. I noticed some are turning to country more than rock too. That's what I have gathered working in a high school for the last 20 years anyway. Kinda like our old cars they just don't have the interest. Most of us just want to live im the past.....at least I do.

I don't necessarily agree. I know lots of kids age 10-25 who like listening to 70s and 80s rock, moreso than my generation listened to 50s and 60s rock. My dad's music used to raise my ire when I was a kid, and then
he started singing along and made it even worse. But my kids really enjoy the stuff I listened to when I was in my mid teens to mid 20s.

I asked like 50 kids one day who Ledzeplin was and only two gave me the correct answer.......go fogure.

[Ponch ®]

1. The Clear Channels and Viacoms are killing (if its not dead already) terrestrial radio. Basically they'll cater to whatever demographic will bring in the most advertising money. That's why you see a lot of rock stations changing formats to Top 40 or "jack". And with computer generated playlists, DJs are no longer needed. Here in L.A. KLOS just fired Jim Ladd, who's somewhat of a legend in the rock radio biz (I never got his act, but I guess a lot of people did). Dude has been around since the late 60s doing free form.

2. iTunes. Since people don't buy albums any more, the music business is reverting to the 50s single oriented model.

3. Music sucks. Because of #1 and #2, whatever is left of the record companies only put out the lowest common denominator tripe (see: Nickelback  , Katy Perry, anything with AutoTune) in order to sell more. Give the masses shit and tell them it's cake, theyll eat it cuz they don't know any better. Anything new or innovative you have to go searching for, cuz you sure as hell ain't gonna hear it on the Morning Zoo. Unless you're an established band (U2, Foo Fighters, etc) you don't have much of a chance.

Satellite and other forms of media are the way to go now. Some people will say "why pay for radio?". Well, you get what you pay for. Pay for cable TV and you get Game of Thrones and Sons of Anarchy. Stick to free TV and you get The Bachelor and When Nannies Attack Part 47. See where I'm going with this?

BTW - I like Pandora, except that after a while you start hearing the same songs over and over. And occasionally it will do some really wacky, f-ed up crap like the time it played Journey on my NIN station. JOURNEY!  

[71bee]

Gee....does anybody really still listen to FM radio? I've had the XM system since it came out. at least this way, I can finally listen to some real METAL instead of that nasty butt-rock shit they were cramming down our throats in the 80's! 

[adauto]

Here radio pretty much SUXAZZ. Which actually led me down to road to talk radio (no same songs 50 X a day ) which led me to public radio which is very informative at times. For music I'm mostly a BLUES player ( I know just about all the original stuff that you rock guys think is "new") But I do listen to rock and some country too! Thank God my trucks got a CD player.  

[twodko]

Recently we spent a week on Maui and they have a great 60-70-80's station that has a real DJ. I never heard the same tune repeated the entire week. For me those decades produced some timeless music that will always be popular. IMO

[TK73]

Gee....does anybody really still listen to FM radio? I've had the XM system since it came out. at least this way, I can finally listen to some real METAL instead of that nasty butt-rock shit they were cramming down our throats in the 80's!  

Yeah, at work I like the talk show... got Bonaduce in the morning (KZOK) and the Mens Room ( http://www.kisw.com/pages/5748583.php ) in the afternoon.

Got a lot of CD's and MP3's to fill in the rest of he time...

[bull]

I agree with Mike. I have noticed oldies use to be rock of the 50's  & 60's, then stations fazed them out to oldies being rock of the 70"s & 80's. Rock of the last 20 years just isn't as popular with the young crowd listening to rap crap and alternative. I noticed some are turning to country more than rock too. That's what I have gathered working in a high school for the last 20 years anyway. Kinda like our old cars they just don't have the interest. Most of us just want to live im the past.....at least I do.

I don't necessarily agree. I know lots of kids age 10-25 who like listening to 70s and 80s rock, moreso than my generation listened to 50s and 60s rock. My dad's music used to raise my ire when I was a kid, and then
he started singing along and made it even worse. But my kids really enjoy the stuff I listened to when I was in my mid teens to mid 20s.

I asked like 50 kids one day who Ledzeplin was and only two gave me the correct answer.......go fogure.

I understand that. Once when I was driving a school bus part time I had the radio on a rock station so I asked the few remaining riders if they liked Van Halen. "What's Van Halen?" was the response, but they still enjoyed the music. I think with all the other distractions these days kids don't really get into knowing the band names and members like we did when we were younger. But then you really don't see bands much anymore. Today it seems like there are more individual-based groups instead of bands. Off the top of my head I can't even really think of a band that plays top 40 stuff right now. It's all Justin Bieber, Miley Cyrus, Katy Perry, Lady Gaga, Rhianna, etc. Where are the bands?

[Old Moparz]

I have some faith in kids in regards to finding old music to listen to, they just need to find it on their own terms. My daughter is in a band that plays mostly rock, but they haven't been together long enough to actually define what they play. They're all between 12 & 14 & have played songs by 311, Paramour, Green Day, Cream, Foster the People, & a few others that I can't name out of either not knowing, or loss of memory.  

I don't think we, as in older rock fans, can put on a record, CD, or tape & tell kids this is what you should be listening to or they'll instantly reject it. It's no different than when we were kids trying to "own" newer music that wasn't our parent's. My Dad liked the 50's Doo-Wop & Elvis, my Mom liked Sinatra & Barry Manilow. I hated it & cringed when I'd wake up on a Saturday morning to it.  

My daughter is 12 & enjoys a lot of different music, but isn't a "pop music" fan at all. I am thankful for that because I think I'd have to move out of my house if she listened to Justin Bieber, Miley Cyrus, Katy Perry, or Lady Gaga. I've even heard her make fun of top 40. She plays piano & her teacher teaches mostly classical. She likes it, but also plays other music like ragtime or sometimes writes her own. My wife is a bluegrass fan & musician, & my daughter likes that too.

I've taken her to see "older" rock bands live in concert, like Jeff Beck, Nine Inch Nails & Yes, & I think that is what anyone, not just kids need to witness. Live music is 100 times better than hearing a recording. We also go to see jazz, bluegrass & blues shows like Chris Botti, James Cotton, Bill Frisell, or Medeski, Martin & Wood, & she likes them too.

Here'a a shameless plug to my daughter's band, "Deep Red Blush" playing at a fundraiser for a young girl who had a brain operation.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tVKbDQNxqs

[The70RT]

I agree with both your guys last post. I'm not gonna take over this thread but this has got me curious so o started a survey here at the high school I work at. I will post a new thread later.

[RallyeMike]

So all of these things have made owners rich, employees salaries go down AND they're made to feel like they should be happy to have a job.

I agree with almost everything you said in terms of what is happening and the results, but the FCC just makes and unkaes the rules. It's the corporations that choose to operate the way they do (which is cutting their own throats for short term profits). A lot of these FCC regulations didnt belong in a "free-market" radio US in the first place.

Who is really to blame when a corporation makes profit decisions that hurt their own industry?

The same goes for whay Rock FM is dying, as others have mentioned - there is more money to made elsewhere, so that's where the corps go. Radio isnt about music, its about selling ads and making money on the back of music.

[ODZKing]

So all of these things have made owners rich, employees salaries go down AND they're made to feel like they should be happy to have a job.

I agree with almost everything you said in terms of what is happening and the results, but the FCC just makes and unkaes the rules. It's the corporations that choose to operate the way they do (which is cutting their own throats for short term profits). A lot of these FCC regulations didnt belong in a "free-market" radio US in the first place.

Who is really to blame when a corporation makes profit decisions that hurt their own industry?

The same goes for whay Rock FM is dying, as others have mentioned - there is more money to made elsewhere, so that's where the corps go. Radio isnt about music, its about selling ads and making money on the back of music.

Well, you're right there too Mike.  It's just with regulations, the little guy stations were able to compete.  Now that is not the case unless you run bare bones so to speak.
It is no different in TV where I am now.  We sell 30 minute paid advertisements like crazy.  Who's watching, no one.  But it pays the bills so they don't care about ratings.
The station exhists to sell and make money, the programs are to fill time.

[Old Moparz]

I thought this may derail the topic, but it is somewhat related. Related in the sense that radio has gone down the crapper for more than one reason. The FCC sets rules, but the chairman of the FCC is appointed. The problem here is that the appointment is decided by politicians so that certain corporate interests are looked after, not the public interest. This wreaks conflict of interest when the major corporations are huge campaign contributors.

Interesting read for an example.....
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/harold-feld/the-fox-tvcablevision-fig_b_774959.html

by Harold Feld
Legal Director for Public Knowledge, Blogger at www.wetmachine.com
Posted: October 27, 2010

(Only a portion)
Congress gave the FCC the job of Consumer Protection Cop to keep broadcasters from abusing their power as trustees of the public airwaves, and gave the FCC the power to do the job. Unfortunately, the FCC really wanted the job of "Palace Eunuch" for the Media Barons. So the FCC busily went to work lopping off everything that stood between it and its desired job as Palace Eunuch.

For 15 years, the FCC has loooooovvvved its job as Palace Eunuch for the Media Barons, wearing a very impressive Palace Eunuch uniform with those great big baggy pants and the cute little fez and toy sword it waves impressively when it tells members of the public to move along and stop trying to hold big media companies accountable for their public interest obligations. And as a reward, Palace Eunuch FCC got to go every year to the Big Media Baron Convention in Las Vegas to get praised and petted -- which the FCC would reward by relaxing ownership rules further, rolling over on mergers, and rubber-stamping license renewals.

Unfortunately, all this indulgence of the Media Barons has created toxic levels of consolidation that, among other problems, has left the retrans system totally broken. Palace Eunuch FCC finds itself utterly unable to deal with these nasty brawls that keep breaking out. Worse, everyone keeps looking at it like it is supposed to be Consumer Cop FCC -- the job Congress actually intended. Unfortunately for Genachowski, much as he wants to be Consumer Cop FCC, thanks to previous FCC decisions, his existing arsenal consists of a little toy sword, a fez, and really baggy Palace Eunuch pants.

[472 R/T SE]

Last spring our local FM hard rock station, 101 KUFO, switched to a news/talk format without any warning. KUFO played a lot of AC/DC, Metallica, Ozzy, that sort of thing, but toward the end of its run we strarted hearing some softer stuff like Mellencamp and Journey which was a bit odd. Stranger yet of course was turning it on one day and getting nothing but talk show hosts, news, traffic and weather.

Turns out that this kind of thing seems to be becoming a national trend: http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/culturebox/2011/11/alternative_rock_radio_the_sad_unwarranted_decline_of_fm_rock_stations_.html

Yeah, one day I started up the Maggie & friggin' talk radio was on.  I thought my wife was messin' with me since she drives it on occasion.  

I was lovin' it.  We had 3 stations to chose from so I could always bounce around the presets.  I now listen to 94.7 more now.  I think it's alternative but every once in a while catch something good.

A lot better than growing up in western Kansas & having nothing.  Depending on conditions we could get T97 in Wichita, Ks. which is quite a ways from Hays.  

I asked Santa for an Ipod hook up for my Magnum.  With my Itouch I can go to Seattle & back in the Charger & not hear the same song twice.

When Sirius came out my neighbor spent like $500 & got a lifetime subscription.  He gets it in his house, car & MP3.

[bull]

A lot better than growing up in western Kansas & having nothing.  Depending on conditions we could get T97 in Wichita, Ks. which is quite a ways from Hays. 

We also had nothing in my little town as far as radio back in the 80s growing up. I had a friend who worked at the local Dodge dealer in Enterprise, OR who had a car radio hooked up to a big antenna on the building and could just barely get a rock station out of Lewiston, ID. It was almost as much static as it was music but it was on all the time. We finally started getting a new station out of Spokane, WA (I think) that was playing rock. The only local station was KWVR (we called it quiver) and it played podunk country music about 5 hrs a day followed by a bunch of nonsense nobody listened to. Somehow we figured it out though. I got my hands on all the VH, Hagar, ZZTop, Loverboy, etc. cassettes I wanted to carry in the Charger.

Is KGON still around or are they gone too now? Oh, I guess they are: http://www.kgon.com/ They've been around forever.

I asked Santa for an Ipod hook up for my Magnum.  With my Itouch I can go to Seattle & back in the Charger & not hear the same song twice.

That's similar to the route I plan on going eventually. Wards Classic Radio will install an MP3 jack in my thumbwheel radio when I get it restored so it will probably produce better music than my newer cars. My Dakota only has a cassette player but the Durango has cassette/CD so I've got that at least. I can't remember the last time I listened to a cassette tape.

[oldcarnut]

Its a rare occasion I listen to FM radio in the car since I've had XM. In the house I listen to the internet. http://player.radio.com/player/RadioPlayer.php
I think there is something for everyone on it and its free.  I have a converter from Radio Shack years ago that plugs into the pc jack and converts the signal to play through the wires in the house so anywhere I can plug in the speakers that go with the system into the house wiring I can listen.  I just got tired of hearing more commercials and talking than there was music on the FM channels.

[TK73]

I clicked that Radio link and it immediately went into 3 ads before I could figure out where to get music, cut it off on the 3rd.

[oldcarnut]

I clicked that Radio link and it immediately went into 3 ads before I could figure out where to get music, cut it off on the 3rd.

Sometimes it'll give a couple when you first open it up but then it plays for a long time with straight music.  You may get a 15-20sec add when you change to different venue. I clicked on just now and it was on the Led Zeppelin channel instead of the main menu but only did 1 add and went to playing Pink Floyd.  I don't think anywhere is not going to have an add.  It pays for the channel(s) but it sure beats the non stop adds between every 2-3 songs on the radio.  I like it because of the variety of rock choices on it so its just an option. 

[Kern Dog]

Things change whether we want them to or not. Yeah, this is sad. Its simply the free market at work, which I would not want to change.

[rattlehead_74]

105.7 The-X......newer and older rock...and 102.3 MAX FM ...older rock...central illinois......no deathmetal though...WTF