Taxpayers Lose 24 Billion on GM

[chargerboy69]

And we are now informed today we as taxpayers are going to lose 24 Billion on the GM bailout.  Thanks to GM for pissing my hard earned money right down the sh!ter. Oh, and to the dipsh!ts who gave them my money, nice move.

Please do not turn this into a  blame one party or another thread as both are to blame, they all suck.  This is about GM and how they have not seemed to learn how to run the company with all the "free" money they received.


http://www.detnews.com/article/20111114/AUTO01/111140434/1361/U.S.-boosts-estimate-of-auto-bailout-losses-to-$23.6B

[Dino]

Please do not turn this into a  blame one party or another thread as both are to blame, they all suck. 

That's what people tend to forget from time to time, they're all politicians, that should be enough on that subject.

All these big companies are good at filling their own pockets first, it will never change.

[dads_69]

Nuke GM...........haha

[TruckDriver]

Please do not turn this into a  blame one party or another thread as both are to blame, they all suck.  This is about GM and how they have not seemed to learn how to run the company with all the "free" money they received.

This is why it doesn't pay to vote anymore. ALL politicians lie just to get elected. After they get in office, they dont give a shit about the public, well, at least 99.9% of them.

[68X426]

The UAW and affiliated unions, as well as GM, are all addicts, getting high on their taxpayer money addiction. Union welfare, corporate welfare. Everybody gets high on the public's money.

There, it isn't about politics.

[elacruze]

A good friend was VP level at GM before the collapse-she said that even at that level they were pushed into taking GM stock as compensation while upper management hid the plan to make that stock worthless.

[RallyeMike]

Please do not turn this into a  blame one party or another thread

 Good luck with that. People just cannot resist...  

Who will first come to the defense of the lefty UAW who has been insulted by 68X426?  



And who didnt see this coming? The taxpayers were actually going to get the bailout money back? Righto.

The way I see it, $24B / $300M = it cost each one of us about $80 to keep GM afloat. As much as I hate to say it, I guess it's worth it to me to keep at least ONE American manufacturing business alive. I mean, they could have sold it off (ala the Chryler example) to Hyundai.

[68X426]

Who will first come to the defense of the lefty UAW who has been insulted by 68X426?  

Insult?    You should've read my first reaction before I edited.

It's just tough love. Everyone needs to face up to their addiction, whether union or corporate. Neither organization has balls. They just suck on the public money teat.

The question remains: where is the bail out money for Studebaker?

[Tilar]

And we are now informed today we as taxpayers are going to lose 24 Billion on the GM bailout.  Thanks to GM for pissing my hard earned money right down the sh!ter. Oh, and to the dipsh!ts who gave them my money, nice move.

Gee, Imagine that! Whooda thunk it. Goes hand in hand with what they did to the Michigan Day care centers...

Please do not turn this into a  blame one party or another thread

  Good luck with that. People just cannot resist... 

Who will first come to the defense of the lefty UAW who has been insulted by 68X426? 

I just cant imagine. "cough tk73 cough" 

[Darkman]

I can see yet another thread getting locked

[chargerboy69]

And we are now informed today we as taxpayers are going to lose 24 Billion on the GM bailout.  Thanks to GM for pissing my hard earned money right down the sh!ter. Oh, and to the dipsh!ts who gave them my money, nice move.

Gee, Imagine that! Whooda thunk it. Goes hand in hand with what they did to the Michigan Day care centers...

Please do not turn this into a  blame one party or another thread

  Good luck with that. People just cannot resist... 

Who will first come to the defense of the lefty UAW who has been insulted by 68X426? 

I just cant imagine. "cough tk73 cough" 

        I just spit Diet Pepsi all over the laptop.

I can see yet another thread getting locked

Where is your faith in our fellow forum members.

[adauto]

The UAW and affiliated unions, as well as GM, are all addicts, getting high on their taxpayer money addiction. Union welfare, corporate welfare. Everybody gets high on the public's money.

There, it isn't about politics.

You got that right!!!

[Patronus]

Please do not turn this into a  blame one party or another thread as both are to blame, they all suck.  This is about GM and how they have not seemed to learn how to run the company with all the "free" money they received.

This is why it doesn't pay to vote anymore. ALL politicians lie just to get elected. After they get in office, they dont give a shit about the public, well, at least 99.9% of them.

Did you see 60 minutes last week about how politicians buy and sell stock with insider info...? Somethin's gonna change.. 

[TK73]

hhhhmmm... *clears throat*

Wellll....

[NHCharger]

Did you see 60 minutes last week about how politicians buy and sell stock with insider info...? Somethin's gonna change.. 

I read that article. Congress exempts itself from the rules they make for everyone else, unbelievable.

Wasn't GM running an ad earlier this year about how they have already paid back the bailout money?? And then it turns out they dipped into a secret emergency fund the government had set up incase they need more bail out money?

[maxwellwedge]

Please do not turn this into a  blame one party or another thread as both are to blame, they all suck.  This is about GM and how they have not seemed to learn how to run the company with all the "free" money they received.

This is why it doesn't pay to vote anymore. ALL politicians lie just to get elected. After they get in office, they dont give a shit about the public, well, at least 99.9% of them.

Did you see 60 minutes last week about how politicians buy and sell stock with insider info...? Somethin's gonna change.. 

Saw it - Kept thinking that Martha Stewart must have been pissed watching that.

[TK73]

Seems to me we should take to the streets demanding accountability and change!!

[ACUDANUT]

What about Chrysler...They took the money and now it's a foreign owned company. (Fiat). Do you think they are going to pay the U.S. Government back....NOPE.

[TK73]

What about Chrysler...They took the money and now it's a foreign owned company. (Fiat). Do you think they are going to pay the U.S. Government back....NOPE.

Partially confirmed:

Chrysler to pay back all but $1.3B of bailout

"The U.S. government will ultimately lose around $1.3 billion in the deal. The government authorized $12.5 billion in loans for Chrysler from the end of 2008 through Chrysler's bankruptcy filing in the summer of 2009. The Treasury Department said Thursday that Chrysler has repaid $11.2 billion — including $2 billion in undrawn loans — but it is unlikely to recover the rest. Government officials have long said that they didn't expect to recover the full amount they loaned to Chrysler and General Motors during the auto industry downturn, and that their top priority was saving thousands of auto jobs."

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2011-06-03-chrysler-bailout-government_n.htm

[HalfastJav]

Seems to me we should take to the streets demanding accountability and change!!

We need to do that for alot more than just Chebbie.......

Foreign inundation is killing me...........

[1969chargerrtse]

I love GM but lost 6,000.00 from them.

[nh_mopar_fan]

Seems to me we should take to the streets demanding accountability and change!!

I've got an idea. Let's all get together and pitch some tents downtown. We can camp out for weeks. Play some bongos, smoke some dope and complain about how life is unfair. Once night comes, we can throw in a little vandalism and crap on a police car or two. 

Sound effective?   

[1970Moparmann]

Seems to me we should take to the streets demanding accountability and change!!

I've got an idea. Let's all get together and pitch some tents downtown. We can camp out for weeks. Play some bongos, smoke some dope and complain about how life is unfair. Once night comes, we can throw in a little vandalism and crap on a police car or two. 

Sound effective?   

Now that is funny.

[1970Moparmann]

I also heard a rumor that because of the "Cash for Clunkers" program, the U.S. has an all time high of bank repo's because PEOPLE CAN'T AFFORD THEIR CAR".     So to sum it up, due to the Government we have an all time high of people losing their house, job, and car........  What's next?? 

[Silver R/T]

Proud to say I don't have a single GM product

[aussiemuscle]

but it is unlikely to recover the rest.

Could you imagine a bank that loans money out that it doesn't expect to get back? pretty poor that your govt doesn't understand basic economics! 

[68blue]

I really don't think getting repaid ever entered into the decision to give them the money, they probably look at anything that comes back as a bonus.

[TK73]

Seems to me we should take to the streets demanding accountability and change!!

I've got an idea. Let's all get together and pitch some tents downtown. We can camp out for weeks. Play some bongos, smoke some dope and complain about how life is unfair. Once night comes, we can throw in a little vandalism and crap on a police car or two.  

Sound effective?  

Sad that a few extremist screw up the message.

Maybe we could have a dittohead lock-step march singing the Wingnut choir song and praising the leadership?

DAMNIT, I forgot we already have that...   *cough* T Party  *cough*

[TK73]

Forgot the other option of sitting in front of the TV watching Fox News, taking a rear pounding from the elites and villianizing those willing to stand up for what they believe in.


"Stand for what you believe in or fall for anything".

[ACUDANUT]

 I blame the unions for alot the financial problems...They demand $50.00 a hour and when they want more, they strike and "can", ulitmately kill a business.  It happened to my father business.  Not only did everyone lose their jobs because of greed, it killed the business.  Just like Churchhill trucking and a thousand others.

[Black Charger]

I don't think that ANY business deserves a bailout. A business that no longer makes enough money to stay afloat is doomed to fail. Simple as that. The overpaid execs and upper management who sucked the company dry over the years should be responsible for the bailout, NOT the government or the taxpayers.

[nh_mopar_fan]

Forgot the other option of sitting in front of the TV watching Fox News, taking a rear pounding from the elites and villianizing those willing to stand up for what they believe in.


"Stand for what you believe in or fall for anything".

Yah like those radical tea partiers. All they did was get a bunch of candidates elected and change the discussion in Washington. No arrests, no vandalism, no crapping on police cars. No anti-semites. No spitting on Coasties.  

Offering solutions? Well, uh, the occupy folks are a little short on offering actual solutions, aren't they?

Ah yes, it was those "few" extremists. In every city....  

[J-440]

 Have owned an '03 Nissan Xterra for 148000 miles now and what a great SUV.  I will be buying another Nissan in the future as they are made in Tennessee by non union workers.  Our sister plant (John Crane Seals) in Morton Grove, IL just shut down after only 12 years in business. We make the same parts in a building half the size and kick their asses every month in production and we are non union. Come to Texas baby, and we'll show you how its done.

[ACUDANUT]

Don't get me wrong, GM has great cars.  My 00 Blazer has 275,000 on it...(same engine and trans)..I would still pay a little more for a U.S. car and know the owners are not in Asia.

[RallyeMike]

Don't get me wrong, GM has great cars.  My 00 Blazer has 275,000 on it...(same engine and trans)..I would still pay a little more for a U.S. car and know the owners are not in Asia.

Unfortunately for the flag waving American, buying a car made with American parts, assembled by American workers, and owned by and American company is getting down to fewer choices.  Some "foreign cars" probably support US jobs more than some "American" cars.

http://www.howtobuyamerican.com/content/db/b-db-autos.shtml

Take GM off the list and it's even slimmer. So, we lost some dough and we're irritated - probably still good for America to save them.

[John_Kunkel]

And we are now informed today we as taxpayers are going to lose 24 Billion on the GM bailout. 

Chump change compared to the two current wars.

[BigBlackDodge]

And we are now informed today we as taxpayers are going to lose 24 Billion on the GM bailout. 

Chump change compared to the two current wars.

Yep................Trillions gone.


BBD

[nh_mopar_fan]

No doubt but that doesn't excuse it away.

[TK73]

No doubt but that doesn't excuse it away.

No, it doesn't.

This is just another distraction from the real problems... such as the wars previously mentioned.

[Old Moparz]

No doubt but that doesn't excuse it away.

No, it doesn't.

This is just another distraction from the real problems... such as the wars previously mentioned.

That's the key word, "distractions", & it seems pretty damn easy to distract a good number of people from the issues that they want kept under the radar. Not taking sides, I feel distrust & disgust towards any political party, but I am tired of the BS going on in government & hate that everything & everyone is bought off.

Have you ever heard of the Koch brothers? (pronounced coke)
http://rt.com/usa/news/usa-conservatives-koch-brothers/

Uncloaking the Koch Brothers

Angry progressives are willing to go to jail to expose the secretive and influential meetings being hosted by the billionaire Koch Brothers. What was supposed to be a quiet retreat in an exclusive southern California resort became a rallying cry for angry progressives who say Americans' freedom and liberty are being bought and sold.

"We don't want excessive amounts of money being spent to buy policy," said Van Jones, former advisor to President Obama, speaking to a crowd of activists in Rancho Mirage, California. "We don't mind people contributing in politics, but when you're trying to buy legislators to protect your bottom line, that's very dangerous."

Jones is one of the prominent progressives who are trying to expose billionaire brothers David and Charles Koch's agenda. The Koch's ultra secretive meetings are attended by prominent lawmakers, conservative pundits, and other wealthy business owners, set on stripping the free market of even minimal government regulation.

(By the way, the Koch brothers are huge financial backers for teabaggers using them to protect their own financial issues. It has zero to do with anything patriotic.)

http://rt.com/usa/blogs/thom-hartmann-blog/brothers-recruiting-students-party/

The Koch brothers have a plan for recruiting students for the Tea Party

Students at public universities are screwed.  Earlier this week it was revealed that American oligarch Charles Koch – one of the billionaire Koch brothers – has a deal with Florida State University where he can handpick right-wing professors for the universities Economics Department in exchange for a heft cash donation to the school.  Investigative reporter Lee Fang is now reporting that this story only scratches the surface of what the Kochs are up to as far as polluting universities with their far-right ideology.

At George Mason University – Clemson – West Virginia – Brown – Troy – and Utah State – the Kochs have thrown million's of dollars into the curriculums to ensure professors are hired who will promote deregulation and friendly oil policies – basically policies that help the Koch's profits.  At some schools – students are even forced to read books that the Kochs have written.  I guess this is the new strategy of these oligarchs – why spent millions kicking off the Tea Party movement.

Why try to get older people on board when you can buy professors to convince kids right out of college to put on the tri-corner hat.

[TK73]

[Ghoste]

At least it didn't get political.  Thank God the left never try to buy influence or recruit the young.

[nh_mopar_fan]

One side has Soros, the other side has Koch.

Pick your boogey man but please don't tell me that one side is any different than the other.

[J-440]

 I was gonna say the same thing about hard left wing liberal professors that get tenure and have been preaching anti-American garbage for the past 40 years.  What the Koch brothers are doing is wrong in what way again??

[nh_mopar_fan]

I was gonna say the same thing about hard left wing liberal professors that get tenure and have been preaching anti-American garbage for the past 40 years.  What the Koch brothers are doing is wrong in what way again??

Like this jackass at Suffolk Law:

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/upshot/law-professor-says-sympathy-american-troops-not-rational-220243783.html

http://www.myfoxboston.com/dpp/news/local/suffolk-univ.-professor-will-not-collect-care-packages-for-troops

[chargerboy69]

No doubt but that doesn't excuse it away.

No, it doesn't.

This is just another distraction from the real problems... such as the wars previously mentioned.

That's the key word, "distractions", & it seems pretty damn easy to distract a good number of people from the issues that they want kept under the radar. Not taking sides, I feel distrust & disgust towards any political party, but I am tired of the BS going on in government & hate that everything & everyone is bought off.

Have you ever heard of the Koch brothers? (pronounced coke)
http://rt.com/usa/news/usa-conservatives-koch-brothers/

Uncloaking the Koch Brothers

Angry progressives are willing to go to jail to expose the secretive and influential meetings being hosted by the billionaire Koch Brothers. What was supposed to be a quiet retreat in an exclusive southern California resort became a rallying cry for angry progressives who say Americans' freedom and liberty are being bought and sold.

"We don't want excessive amounts of money being spent to buy policy," said Van Jones, former advisor to President Obama, speaking to a crowd of activists in Rancho Mirage, California. "We don't mind people contributing in politics, but when you're trying to buy legislators to protect your bottom line, that's very dangerous."

Jones is one of the prominent progressives who are trying to expose billionaire brothers David and Charles Koch's agenda. The Koch's ultra secretive meetings are attended by prominent lawmakers, conservative pundits, and other wealthy business owners, set on stripping the free market of even minimal government regulation.

(By the way, the Koch brothers are huge financial backers for teabaggers using them to protect their own financial issues. It has zero to do with anything patriotic.)

http://rt.com/usa/blogs/thom-hartmann-blog/brothers-recruiting-students-party/

The Koch brothers have a plan for recruiting students for the Tea Party

Students at public universities are screwed.  Earlier this week it was revealed that American oligarch Charles Koch – one of the billionaire Koch brothers – has a deal with Florida State University where he can handpick right-wing professors for the universities Economics Department in exchange for a heft cash donation to the school.  Investigative reporter Lee Fang is now reporting that this story only scratches the surface of what the Kochs are up to as far as polluting universities with their far-right ideology.

At George Mason University – Clemson – West Virginia – Brown – Troy – and Utah State – the Kochs have thrown million's of dollars into the curriculums to ensure professors are hired who will promote deregulation and friendly oil policies – basically policies that help the Koch's profits.  At some schools – students are even forced to read books that the Kochs have written.  I guess this is the new strategy of these oligarchs – why spent millions kicking off the Tea Party movement.

Why try to get older people on board when you can buy professors to convince kids right out of college to put on the tri-corner hat.

Really, citing these people as a credible source? You realize this is from a blog on RT also known as Russia Today.  This news source is a joke.  It is like me quoting Al-Jazeera, The Palistine Post, The National Enquirer, Wikipedia, Star Magazine or MSNBC as a credible source.  

And we are now informed today we as taxpayers are going to lose 24 Billion on the GM bailout.

Chump change compared to the two current wars.

Which two would that be?  Bush had us in two, and last I heard we now have military action going on in Uganda and Libya as well.  So by my count we are now in four. Yes, four too many.

And 24 billion chump change? In that case, you have a extra 24 billion I could have just laying around.  

At least this thread did not get off topic.

[TK73]

I was gonna say the same thing about hard left wing liberal professors that get tenure and have been preaching anti-American garbage for the past 40 years.  What the Koch brothers are doing is wrong in what way again??

Hmmm, I don't recall any of those in my undergraduate or graduate classes... Guess I took the wrong classes.

Give a documented example of "anti-american garbage". 

How many did you find at University?  and... which University did you attend?

[Old Moparz]

Really, citing these people as a credible source? You realize this is from a blog on RT also known as Russia Today.  This news source is a joke.  It is like me quoting Al-Jazeera, The Palistine Post, The National Enquirer, Wikipedia, Star Magazine or MSNBC as a credible source.  

I'm not going to debate with you about which source is credible & which isn't, opinions will vary as well as whatever viewpoint someone holds on any issue. An idea, opinion, news story, or blog from another country, doesn't make it any less credible than one from the US. It would be very easy to discredit a lot of the babble on American radio, TV & everything else that claims to be "reliable" with it's info. It's almost like stating that someone who owns a Charger & lives outside the US isn't a true Charger enthusiast & doesn't deserve to own one. (Which has been done by members here before.)

My view on most political topics will be in the middle somewhere. I don't believe ANYONE from any party who has financial motivation persuading them to support an issue.

As for the GM bailout topic not being political, how could it not be?

[Mike DC]

Which two would that be?  Bush had us in two, and last I heard we now have military action going on in Uganda and Libya as well.  So by my count we are now in four. Yes, four too many.

Uganda and Lybia both have massive oil reserves ready to be exported in the coming years.  Hmm . . .