Installed FAST EZ EFI ON THE RT

[snagm z]

HOLY SHIT WHAT A DIFFERENCE!

I originally had a 800cfm carb. and was disappointed in my results. So i switched. I have a base line Dyno with the carb and scheduled next Thurs to dyno & tune it up  the efi. i can already tell i have significant gains. will scan and post my results with my engine build blueprint. 

[Tilar]

 

[Budnicks]

What engine combo do you have below that new Fast EZ EFI  ....

[1970Moparmann]

Need to hear more about this.    Do tell.....

[jb666]

You'll LOVE it.. The simple things.. Like reaching in, after your car has sat for two weeks, tapping the key and having it fire right up while your feet are both outside the car... Now THAT'S cool...   Throttle response..... Reliability..   

[Budnicks]

Is this set up on your Procharged combo  , just curious... the founder of Fast EFI, lives some were near here, I think up the hill in Twain Harte, Ca., I think it was "Dan" Orange Hemi RR fame "68X426" who told me that...

[jb666]

Is this set up on your Procharged combo  , just curious... the founder of Fast EFI, lives some were near here, I think up the hill in Twain Harte, Ca., I think it was "Dan" Orange Hemi RR fame "68X426" who told me that...

Mine? No. I'm not running the EZ system..  I'm running the XFI 2.0 system. My setup was a PITA to get tuned, but once it was dialed in correctly it's been a DREAM!!!!!!

[J-440]

JB....I just ordered the XFI 2.0 system as well. I will be installing it this weekend.  What problems did you have?  I hear there is a lttle more tuning involved than with the EZ setup.  What laptop are you using....questions man and I need answers!!!!

[jb666]

JB....I just ordered the XFI 2.0 system as well. I will be installing it this weekend.  What problems did you have?  I hear there is a lttle more tuning involved than with the EZ setup.  What laptop are you using....questions man and I need answers!!!!

Problems... Just minor tuning tweaks that we messed with most of the summer. Adjusting throttle blades. TP Sensor. Temp vs idle adjustments. Fans.

The usual... like I said, once it was dialed in, it's incredible. The car runs like an absolute DREAM now...  So many think they can just throw it in, do a quick tune and you're set.. That couldn't be farther from the truth.. But, it's worth it in the end!!

Laptop? I'm running the XFI software on a spare Dell I had. The system stays in the car at all times (I've had to make adjustments on the road more often then not). I really like the ease of adjustment(s) though.. they definitely made it easy.
The 2.0 is an improvement though... Takes a LOT of the guess work (and manual tuning) out of the equation.

[tan top]

thinking about going to EFi also at some stage ,

[Budnicks]

Is this set up on your Procharged combo  , just curious... the founder of Fast EFI, lives some were near here, I think up the hill in Twain Harte, Ca., I think it was "Dan" Orange Hemi RR fame "68X426" who told me that...

Mine? No. I'm not running the EZ system..  I'm running the XFI 2.0 system. My setup was a PITA to get tuned, but once it was dialed in correctly it's been a DREAM!!!!!!

Thanks, I was just curious more than anything, fuel mapping those things can be a major hassle sometimes, I end up have an old buddy do it for me, he owes me a couple still...LOL.. he's extremely hard to get to do anything & usually won't, but when he does, he the shit...

[jb666]

Is this set up on your Procharged combo  , just curious... the founder of Fast EFI, lives some were near here, I think up the hill in Twain Harte, Ca., I think it was "Dan" Orange Hemi RR fame "68X426" who told me that...

Mine? No. I'm not running the EZ system..  I'm running the XFI 2.0 system. My setup was a PITA to get tuned, but once it was dialed in correctly it's been a DREAM!!!!!!

Thanks, I was just curious more than anything, fuel mapping those things can be a major hassle sometimes, I end up have an old buddy do it for me, he owes me a couple still...LOL.. he's extremely hard to get to do anything & usually won't, but when he does, he the shit...

Jon set all of that up for me. I wasn't about to pretend I was smart enough to do something that could actually cause major damage to my motor. I have no problem with the fine tuning..

[Budnicks]

Is this set up on your Procharged combo  , just curious... the founder of Fast EFI, lives some were near here, I think up the hill in Twain Harte, Ca., I think it was "Dan" Orange Hemi RR fame "68X426" who told me that...

Mine? No. I'm not running the EZ system..  I'm running the XFI 2.0 system. My setup was a PITA to get tuned, but once it was dialed in correctly it's been a DREAM!!!!!!

Thanks, I was just curious more than anything, fuel mapping those things can be a major hassle sometimes, I end up have an old buddy do it for me, he owes me a couple still...LOL.. he's extremely hard to get to do anything & usually won't, but when he does, he the shit...

Jon set all of that up for me. I wasn't about to pretend I was smart enough to do something that could actually cause major damage to my motor. I have no problem with the fine tuning..

Do you have to have the lap top to run the system  or is it just for the fine tuning convenience 

[jb666]

Is this set up on your Procharged combo  , just curious... the founder of Fast EFI, lives some were near here, I think up the hill in Twain Harte, Ca., I think it was "Dan" Orange Hemi RR fame "68X426" who told me that...

Mine? No. I'm not running the EZ system..  I'm running the XFI 2.0 system. My setup was a PITA to get tuned, but once it was dialed in correctly it's been a DREAM!!!!!!

Thanks, I was just curious more than anything, fuel mapping those things can be a major hassle sometimes, I end up have an old buddy do it for me, he owes me a couple still...LOL.. he's extremely hard to get to do anything & usually won't, but when he does, he the shit...

Jon set all of that up for me. I wasn't about to pretend I was smart enough to do something that could actually cause major damage to my motor. I have no problem with the fine tuning..

Do you have to have the lap top to run the system  or is it just for the fine tuning convenience 

A lap top is used for the tune. My plug runs out of the glove box. When I'm done I coil it back up and shut the glove box door. You'd never know, from the inside of my car, that the whole underside of the dash (one side) is a computer... 

I suppose you could have someone else tune it with their laptop as long as you'd never need to adjust anything yourself you'd be fine.. But yes, you must plug in to make any changes.

[Budnicks]

Is this set up on your Procharged combo  , just curious... the founder of Fast EFI, lives some were near here, I think up the hill in Twain Harte, Ca., I think it was "Dan" Orange Hemi RR fame "68X426" who told me that...

Mine? No. I'm not running the EZ system..  I'm running the XFI 2.0 system. My setup was a PITA to get tuned, but once it was dialed in correctly it's been a DREAM!!!!!!

Thanks, I was just curious more than anything, fuel mapping those things can be a major hassle sometimes, I end up have an old buddy do it for me, he owes me a couple still...LOL.. he's extremely hard to get to do anything & usually won't, but when he does, he the shit...

Jon set all of that up for me. I wasn't about to pretend I was smart enough to do something that could actually cause major damage to my motor. I have no problem with the fine tuning..

Do you have to have the lap top to run the system  or is it just for the fine tuning convenience 

A lap top is used for the tune. My plug runs out of the glove box. When I'm done I coil it back up and shut the glove box door. You'd never know, from the inside of my car, that the whole underside of the dash (one side) is a computer... 

I suppose you could have someone else tune it with their laptop as long as you'd never need to adjust anything yourself you'd be fine.. But yes, you must plug in to make any changes.

Thanks, it sounds like a very cool system in your Charger... I was just curious, never too old to learn...

[xpbprox]

Sweet, I'd like to hear more too. Right now I got the ez efi sittin in my garage waiting for my car

[Dino]

You'll LOVE it.. The simple things.. Like reaching in, after your car has sat for two weeks, tapping the key and having it fire right up while your feet are both outside the car... Now THAT'S cool...   Throttle response..... Reliability..   

I'd go for that!  Can't complain about reliability so far but the carb would not be missed.

Any change at all in fuel mileage?  Not that I'd get my money out of it anytime soon, asking more out of curiosity.

[MSRacing89]

We have been successful with it so far.  All I can say is we put it through its paces at the OUSCI and it was amazing.

[Vainglory, Esq.]

Awesome.  My next major upgrade is probably the EFI.  Then again, I have a lot of minor upgrades to do first.

[J-440]

  Been studying up on EFI and the only thing that concerns me are the VE tables and zones.  Does FAST have a pre-programmed setup similar to your car and all you have to do is input your engine specs into the pre-programmed setup?  From the pics on the website, everything is pretty much plug and play.  Can't wait to play with it.

[XS29LA47V21]

jb666 when are you going to the dino?  Do you already have thread to your motor combo details, if so where? 

[MSRacing89]

  Been studying up on EFI and the only thing that concerns me are the VE tables and zones.  Does FAST have a pre-programmed setup similar to your car and all you have to do is input your engine specs into the pre-programmed setup?  From the pics on the website, everything is pretty much plug and play.  Can't wait to play with it.

That is correct if you go with the EZ-EFI.  You go through a set up that asks for cubic inches and other parameters and it has a self-learning ECU that fills in the gaps.  You tell it (3) target AFR's for idle, cruise and WOT and it does the rest in between.  Its pretty slick although you still need to understand what your engine wants.  Most people think because its EFI they can just lean it out and everything is great.  That does not work, the motor still wants what it wants.  The good thing is you can lean and fatten up for different conditions like a day a the track or just cruisin.  I do it all the time.  Sometimes when I am cruising down the highway I will reach down and lean it out a few clicks for fuel savings and fatten it back up when I get into town.  All done with handheld unit in the car on the fly.

After competing at the OUSCI and only seeing a few carbs, they are slowly becoming a thing of the past sorry to say.  BTW- this system comes in a Multiport EZ setup which, I think, would be ideal if want to take it to another level.

[johnnycharger]

Can you post some pictures of it installed?

[mopar2]

Can you post some pictures of it installed?

[MSRacing89]

Can you post some pictures of it installed?

[xpbprox]

Damn that's nice, where did you get that air cleaner setup at?

[MSRacing89]

Spectre.  We modiified it and made one ourselves.  But they have the plenum and tubing available for you work with.  The issue is you can't run a drop base round air cleaner because it hits the injector rails.  So it takes a very low clearance plenum to make it work.  Ideally we would like to battery relocate and run the intakes into the wheel wells.  Spectre is supporting me on that project so I will post some pics over the winter when we get some more parts from them.

[xpbprox]

Awesome!

[johnnycharger]

Thanks! Is the air cleaner mount square or round? For mine I would prefer a more classic looking air cleaner.

[MSRacing89]

Thanks! Is the air cleaner mount square or round? For mine I would prefer a more classic looking air cleaner.

The mount is round just like a 4150 holley.  If you run a Eddy performer and not the RPM, you may be able to sneak in a round non-drop base air cleaner.

[Dino]

How many stickers do I need to put on my car for FAST to sponsor me and give me the master kit at cost!?   

[MSRacing89]

The total number is unknown..............I had to put a lot on and still counting!

[jb666]

Very nice!! I like the looks of that air cleaner too!!

[johnnycharger]

Thanks! Is the air cleaner mount square or round? For mine I would prefer a more classic looking air cleaner.

The mount is round just like a 4150 holley.  If you run a Eddy performer and not the RPM, you may be able to sneak in a round non-drop base air cleaner.

Sweet! I like it!

[General_01]

I like the idea of EFI. I was looking at the Powerjection III and this kit. Probably won't be in the budget for a while, but definately something to think about. Keep us posted. 

[Brickster]

check out the new atomic EFI from MSD. I saw it at SEMA and spoke with the man who wrote the code. It is a self learning system and super easy to install.

[General_01]

check out the new atomic EFI from MSD. I saw it at SEMA and spoke with the man who wrote the code. It is a self learning system and super easy to install.

Looks like another good option. So far I like the Powerjection III because it seems to have more adjustibility and the price is cheaper. I probably won't need to have that much control over the system because I don't do anything but drive on the street, but it would be nice to have in case I do something in the future.

The ease of the other two (EZ and Atomic) make them look very appealing though. I checked Summit and the Atomic won't be available until January or May 2012. On the list of products it says January, but when you click on the item for item description it says May.

Good news is the more options for us owners, the better the products will get. Keep us posted on the EZ setup OP.

Now I gotta figure out how to get this next year without getting killed by the wife.

[Budnicks]

That MSD Atomic EFI looks like an easy sweet deal $1900-$2200 not cheap, but read the promo stuff looks impressive, with no lap top needed to tune & will self tune also, is pretty damn cool idea...  I had a b-engine 6bbl EFI set up from "F&B Throttle bodies", you send them your manifold they will do a complete conversion for $2500, 900cfm-2300cfm available & it fits under a stock style N-96 style original non fresh air 6bbl drop air cleaner base, May fit the A-12 fresh air hoods on 440's also, I don't know about the height differences, for sure, with the same pattern on top of the throttle bodies as the original carb/air cleaner base, with the supplied adapters, it's a sweet set-up, or you can use their air cleaner set up also it was a couple of years ago now, it was pretty simple installation, with tons of tech help if needed, very fun to drive too... Sorry no photos & sold the car a while ago now... I tried to download the file photos of the complete set up, it's too big of a file it says...   www.fbthrottlebodies.com

[John_Kunkel]

Does the EZ-EFI pressure regulator require a return line?

[General_01]

Does the EZ-EFI pressure regulator require a return line?

Yes

[J-440]

  Worked on mine this weekend.  Definitly is plug and play and the wires are all marked, instructional CD included is very helpful.  Only real "work" that is involved is figuring where to mount the ECM and running/splicing wires to different parts of engine area for the 4 or 5 sensors they give you.  For instance, my injector harness was about 2 ft short of the harness coming out of the ECM, no biggy.  That and the O2 sensor wiring from the ECM is friggin long as hell.  Gonna splice and dice that.  Other than that the easy part will be out of the way.  "Talking" to the ECM via laptop will be interesting.  Good stuff so far.

[Dino]

The total number is unknown..............I had to put a lot on and still counting!

I emailed Fast last week and just got a reply.  They want me to send in a detailed sponsorship proposal to review.  So what would be acceptable to receive, either in full or at a discount, the master kit for a 440? 

I drive the car most days of the week, spring to fall.  How much,or how big, of an ad should I have on the car???  I have no clue where to start.

[elacruze]

Something everybody needs to consider is that even 'self learning' systems cannot optimize to engine conditions without some input from the user. I could tell it to run a 12.5:1 ratio above a certain manifold pressure and 15:1 below it, but those would only be functional, not optimal. So, your power and fuel mileage would both be less than best.

[MSRacing89]

The total number is unknown..............I had to put a lot on and still counting!

I emailed Fast last week and just got a reply.  They want me to send in a detailed sponsorship proposal to review.  So what would be acceptable to receive, either in full or at a discount, the master kit for a 440? 

I drive the car most days of the week, spring to fall.  How much,or how big, of an ad should I have on the car???  I have no clue where to start.

I was kind of kidding when I wrote that, although I do get some assistance from them.  Most stemming from the OPTIMA Challenge invite and we also got the cover and the feature in Popular Hot Rodding for the event issue to be released in early '12.  Most likely they will assist you if you are involved in some high profile events or are willing to start to do that in the future.  Also they may want to see that your car has won awards or races, etc.  They usually tell you how and where to put the signage and the provide it for you.

[Dino]

The total number is unknown..............I had to put a lot on and still counting!

I emailed Fast last week and just got a reply.  They want me to send in a detailed sponsorship proposal to review.  So what would be acceptable to receive, either in full or at a discount, the master kit for a 440? 

I drive the car most days of the week, spring to fall.  How much,or how big, of an ad should I have on the car???  I have no clue where to start.

I was kind of kidding when I wrote that, although I do get some assistance from them.  Most stemming from the OPTIMA Challenge invite and we also got the cover and the feature in Popular Hot Rodding for the event issue to be released in early '12.  Most likely they will assist you if you are involved in some high profile events or are willing to start to do that in the future.  Also they may want to see that your car has won awards or races, etc.  They usually tell you how and where to put the signage and the provide it for you.

I was kinda kidding when I emailed them...but they actually replied.  Joke's on me!   

Yeah I'm not going to be participating in any events, just city cruising.  Ah well, doesn't hurt to dream.

[snagm z]

just got back from the dyno. Now understand everything is to the Rear Wheels. I have a 4.10 dana 60 and a 18 spline 4 speed.
I have a 440 bored .030 over using stock connecting rods. Keith black Pistons, lugnati cam, eldebrock heads and intake manifold.
and the ez efi from fast. car runs on 87 pump gas only

[snagm z]

second sheet from original dyno in Aug

[snagm z]

now this was done this afternoon the date and time are incorrect on the sheet. didn't really care after getting these results.
I have a small exhaust leak on the passenger side header and its causing the power drop off because the Efi is dumping fuel to compensate for the leak.

[1970Moparmann]

Wow, surprised at the changes.

[General_01]

Very nice!!

[snagm z]

pics of install

[snagm z]

took my son so he could see

[Paul G]

I am really liking that. So you gained power by installing the EFI, is that correct? Seems to me the carb you were using must have been way out of tune. Carb tuning is not the easiest thing to do. Lots of trial and error.

[AirborneSilva]

If I was reading that right you gained 100 HP and almost the same on torque, that's substantial!  Or was I reading it wrong 

[snagm z]

You are reading it right. Now as far as carb adjustment. I tried 3 different carbs from 3 different manufactures and had it tuned by " the professionals" and they couldn't tune those carb's any better then i did. You cannot compare the two fuel management systems. EFI in large displacement motors tuned correctly will give you those type of gains. I still have to go back and finish my tune. Once i get my exhaust leak fixed so can tune tune the 4500 to 6000 rpm rang of the motor. With the ez efi from fast you can let the auto learning selection of the ecu or you can have it tuned by a pro. I picked this shop because they mainly tume sport imports. i have seen the dyno sheets on what they can do. I'm still a little wet with my mix once i get it dialed in I will see what i get. thanks for the posts and input.

steve

[AirborneSilva]

damn Steve, that's awesome!  I was thinking of getting one, now I guess I need to start saving 

[1970Moparmann]

Steve, how bad is the install?  Good weekend job?

[MSRacing89]

Guys let's not get too excited about the gains that Steve saw on his engine.  We do not know all the in's and out's of what was going on with his carb combination.  All I can say is with our built Stage 5 BIGS 750 compared to the EZ system, we saw minimal gains.  We actually lost just a bit on the higher RPMS and gained a bit of low end torque.  When I say little, I mean 10hp +/-.  There are way to many variables for everyone to assume they will have gains of that nature.  You will notice an instant throttle response difference and obviously performance gains over an undersized or undertuned Carb.

My combo is an 11:1, alumimun headed 440, making 525hp at the crank.

[FLG]

I agree...for a 100hp increase theres more going on there than meets the eye (not saying its BS, just saying 100hp isnt because of the efi)

Most ive seen manufacturers say is a 10-15hp increase and of course the added throttle response.

[Budnicks]

I agree...for a 100hp increase theres more going on there than meets the eye (not saying its BS, just saying 100hp isnt because of the efi)

Most ive seen manufacturers say is a 10-15hp increase and of course the added throttle response.

Just my opinion, but I would tend to agree  , unless his original combo was so far off of tune, that it hurt the engines in power, way too lean or way too fat, way wrong CFM, way wrong ignition timing or cam installation, etc., not saying it can't happen, but there's "almost" no way the difference between the 2 will make 100hp difference if the carburetor combo is tuned correctly, "maybe" near that at 1 point or another in the power range but not overall, there had/has to be something different that's not be told or talked about in the combo...  

[AirborneSilva]

yeah I thought that was kinda odd, I mean I'm glad he (Steve), got those gains but it did sound too good to be true.  I guess I would do it for the convenience and reliability.

[Paul G]

yeah I thought that was kinda odd, I mean I'm glad he (Steve), got those gains but it did sound too good to be true.  I guess I would do it for the convenience and reliability.

I agree with the convienence and reliability. Turn the key and the engine starts and runs smoothly there after. Instant throttle response and a wee bit better fuel economy. All the right reasons to go EFI. It's on my list, just waiting for $3 g's to fall out of a tree right in front me, it could happen!!

[AirborneSilva]

, just waiting for $3 g's to fall out of a tree right in front me, it could happen!!

yeah that's the hard part, if you find that tree let me know 

[jb666]

Unfortunately, I can not say I gained 100HP from the EFI swap.. I had the blower/carb setup first, and switching to the EFI gave me 20RWHP more.. And the car setup was tuned to perfection..

Now, I will agree that it gave incredible throttle response and (once tuned properly) amazing driveability..  But, were there times I wish I had stayed with a carb setup? SURE.. Especially when I look at the amount of $$ it cost for the setup and the aggravation to tune it properly.. And yes, the "self learning" software came out a season AFTER I fought with tune issues...

[AirborneSilva]

Yeah it is a big chunk of change and I still have to do a crap load of work on the car itself so and efi is a project for down the road.

[MSRacing89]

Might I make a suggestion to the "on the fence" guys.  Work on the your fuel system first.  Build it right with a full return system using quality lines and fittings.  I mean teflon lined hose and AN fittings.  Build it around your carb set-up using an electronic fuel pump and a return type regulator.  Make it so you just pop in the required EFI pump and regulator along with your EFI kit and you are all good to go.  It may sound like extra work but a carb system with an electronic pump and a circulating system does wonders for drivability.  Then you can make the decision to upgrade to EFI down the road.  There will be many of these EFI systems to chose from in the years to come and prices will eventually be half in no time.  Darn it!  I already bought everything!!

If you are looking for top of the line very quiet and reliable EFI pump, go look at Weldon Racing Pumps.  This is one of the companies I work with on the car and their pumps are second to none. I use the model# A600-A. http://www.weldonracing.com/  

[snagm z]

Well here you go. Since there seems to be some debate about My carb tuning abilities.

Block - 7.2 440. 71 casting
Bored .030 over from (4.32)stock to (4.35)
stock connecting rods with a 3.75 stroke
446 cubic inches (rounded up) at 7.3 liters
Keith Black Hypereutectic pistons
Edelbrock 84 cc Performer heads
Edelbrock Performer intake mainfold
Lunati Cam.... VDBCR-276 grind Part # 60304
Hooker Super Comp Headers
MSD ignition 6A... timing was never the issue checked verified checked and verified again.

1st carb was a 650 edlebrock performer just a tad small for the motor tuned it for about a month carb was "junk"
2ND carb 750 Holley hp perfect size if you do the math tuned for about a week every night trying to get it to work better "also junk"
3rd  800 eldebrock performer   a bit larger same result this is the carb from the initial dyno now I tried to tune. Then I had every racing yahoo who had any street credit and many " Engine Builders"  I had people at Carslie. At English town, Cecil County, Mason Dix  every where I went. The car ran fine but it just didnt give me what i thought it should. I have driven and raced these cars for a while So im not new to the game. I guess you guys believe that I like having close to $1400.00 in carbs sitting on the workbench collecting dust! Everyone is always entitled to there opinions but facts are facts.This is what the EZ EFI with some tuning on the dyno did for me.
   

[snagm z]

msracing 89
is right on the money. plumb your cars with the intention of upgrading later. that's the biggest pain in the butt about the entire install. Also besides the provided fuel filter. you might want to install a see through throw away filter from NAPA. the sediment in the older tanks gets sucked up quick. If that crap clogs the inlet screen of your pump. It will kill your Pump and diminish performance

[Dino]

There is so much to learn I wish I could have all this stuff downloaded into my head 'Matrix' style!

I have no idea where to begin on adding a fuel pump and return line so that's one more thing to go learn about.  So if you add an electric fuel pump you get rid of the mechanical pump?

I admit I like the idea of installing these things if only to make the carb system better.  Having everything installed to make an efi swap easier is a big bonus.  Should this be one of those almost mandatory mods like installing relays for the headlights?  (which I have yet to do as well....)