Torsion Bars-73, 74 Charger

[greymag]

Who has tried the Torsion bars that are available from Firm Feel for the 73 & 74. Or has anyone found them elsewhere?

[moparguy01]

i havent tried them yet, but I have not found anybody else who makes or sells the T-bars for our cars. Options are limited.

However, I have used other Firm Feel products, like a stage 3 steering box, and if their other products are an indication of their quality, I would have no issues using their T-bars.

[HPP]

I think PST also make the longer style 73+ t-bars, but they size them in their usual  regular duty, heavy duty, extra heavy, etc.. Firm Feel actually provides diameters and rates. PST will give you this info, but you have to ask for it.

One option you can perform is to dump the iso-clamp rear t-bar anchor, weld in sockets in the regular trans cross member, and use traditional 41" B  body bars. This doesn't necessariyl offer you more rates, but it may allow you to find bars a bit cheaper in price. Of course then you need anchors, teh install process for locating the anchors, and the time to re-do it all.

[greymag]

I feel safer betting on Firm Feel. The price difference isn't worth remodelling the sub-structure. The 73 is mostly a show pony-it would take a lot of time & effort to stiffen it up. At best, I will fab up some sort of subframe connectors & put the aluminum spacers at the k-frame. I replaced the rear isolators with 1/2" aluminum spacers to go with HD springs. Decent torsion bars will make a big difference up front with the 1 1/8" sway bar.
Thanx for the advice.

[Nacho-RT74]

I have them... 1,06" greeeat pieces!!! PLENTY HAPPY!!!

[bordin34]

I have the 1.06" on mine, wish I went larger but didn't want to buy better shocks.

[greymag]

How would you compare them to stock (new stock) ? I have a small block. Is your car a big or small block?

[Nacho-RT74]

Big Block. I think larger was to be too much. Would make a higher ride height. My adjusting bolts are allmost fully threated out, but I have a lower ride height too than stock, what makes it feel a little bit softer that should be since have't got the torsion for the thickness due the screw adjust.

Any TB you get, will need to get the right Shock absorver too to make the car stiffer, and as you know, 73 and lates still din't got affordable shocks yet. Even GR2s are better than the stock, would wish something better

[bordin34]

With the 1.06" bars and a 1-1/4" front sway bar, my car now handles like a newer pickup truck. Much better than before but not amazing. I am running GR-2 shocks and they cant handle my bars. There is no comparison to stock bars these make a night and day difference.

[greymag]

Thanks guys. It sounds like the 1.06 will suffice with a small block/1 1/8" sway bar/gr2 shocks.

[bordin34]

I forgot to mention my car is a big block car. Before the new bar the headers would hit when I drove through dips in the road, now they dont.

[JeffYoung]

I just redid the suspension on my 72 Rallye -- did the 1.19 or whatever (highest rate) FF bars, tubular uppers, new bushings and ties all around, road race rear leafs and the Bilstein shocks, pluse already have the Firm Feel Stage 3 in the car.

WOW, what a difference.  If you can do something similar on your 73, I highly recommend it.  Steering is tight, and car is firm, but still comfortable.  Except for squeaks and rattles, it feels like a mid 90s European sedan.

Impressed.

[flyinlow]

How much of the difference would you attributte to the Bilsteen shocks?

I see Firm Feel price is down to $400 a set. They are the only mono shocks that will fit 73-74 fronts without mods to the lower control arm. I have KYB gas adjusts on my 73 (Monty Carlo shocks on the front). Still have the stock bars and was thinking about the FF 1.06 bars. Wondered how much more shock you would need.

[randy73]

I know I am bringing up an old topic, but I have a 73 340 and would like to know if 1.06 is to big for a SB?

[ODZKing]

Well, stock is .960.  Still available from Chrysler. P5249158
Mopar Parts America has the set listed for $208.80.  I'm sure you can order them from the dealer and save the shipping.
Jegs and Summit too.
http://www.jegs.com/i/Mopar+Performance/312/P5249158/10002/-1?CAWELAID=1710533349&CAGPSPN=pla&gclid=CKON-f26gcACFSpo7AodXSEAfA

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/dcc-5249157?seid=srese1&gclid=CNfGoey7gcACFU4F7AodOFsANw

P-S-T supposedly offers all different sizes as does Firm Feel.
Racing applications need more but here is an article about upgrades.
Personally, I'd go with stock.  But that is me.
http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techarticles/suspension/mopp_1210_stock_suspension_upgrades/

[randy73]

Thanks, PST only offer 71-72, they do not offer the longer 73 and up ones and I did not stock were that thick. Guess I will stick with stock, because Firm Feels are $375 + and I do not believe a .10 of an inch can make it worth my while.

Thanks Bob   

[randy73]

Jegs lists stock from 66-74 for Chargers, but I am pretty sure the 73 and up had longer torsion bars.

Or am I having a bout of CRS?

[ODZKing]

Well, you're right. 57-58 are listed as up to 72.
http://www.moparonlineperformance.com/category-s/1926.htm?searching=Y&sort=13&cat=1926&show=100&page=1
Look at this.  It says 2.5 inches too short.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hss-19367?seid=srese1&gclid=CK-uwabIgcACFSMV7AodRS0A8g
Several people asking for 73-4 bars
http://www.justsuspension.com/pro-touring-torsion-bars.html
So I take it they need to be around 43 inches?
Greeeaaat! Something else to look forward to.   

[flyinlow]

Yea, 73-74 are longer.  

I have FF 1.06 on my 73 now.  It is a BB but aluminum heads ,intake,headers and fiberglass hood with a trunk mounted battery have lightened the front end some.  I like the T bars.

Firm but not harsh.  I have a slightly lowered front height. and the adjusters are almost all the way out.  Common with larger then stock FF bars. When I go to the swap meet I will shop for a spare set of adjuster bolts to shorten.

[ODZKing]

More info on sizes
http://arengineering.com/tech/torsion-bar-tango/

[ODZKing]

You may be stuck with finding used.
This place has them.  Listed as 43 5/8 inches.
Numbers are correct. 3402658 - 659 (R-L). As I recall from my days in the parts dept, the numbers are embossed on the ends of the bars. Easy to tell if they are correct (example below).
http://www.ebay.com/itm/mopar-torsion-bars-charger-roadrunner-gtx-b-body-mopar-torsion-bars-/281384470735?_trksid=p2054897.l4275

[Nacho-RT74]

with SB and lightened, I don't think will go 1.06"... mostly sure 1". 1" Will give you a propper ride height, lower than stock and firmer handling with bolt propperly threated in. An allmost out adjusting bolt won't give you the designed stiffer spring rate a thicker bar gives. Really some loose. Thats why I think after long time using my 1.06" with BB.

my 2 cents.

[flyinlow]

The FF 1.06  are 208 WR
The FF 1.00 are  160 WR

my car weighs 3950# with 1/2 tank . Still nose heavy. maybe 2200-2300 # in front with driver and pax  2200/10 makes the FF 1.06 the closest match.   

[HPP]

Keep in mind the longer length means they are softer at the same diameter than a shorter length bar. 66-72 1" bar is 175# rate while a 73-79 1" bar is only 160 # rate.  FWIW, the Hotchkis Challenger uses 1.06 as the best all around performance and street comfort bar. At 225# that is right in between a 1.06 (208#) and 1.12 (248#) on a '73 torsion bar.  With a good shock, there is no reason to fear a higher rate torsion bar.

[randy73]

The FF 1.06  are 208 WR
The FF 1.00 are  160 WR

my car weighs 3950# with 1/2 tank . Still nose heavy. maybe 2200-2300 # in front with driver and pax  2200/10 makes the FF 1.06 the closest match.   

Mine is a 340 w/Aluminum heads and intake, but I swapped my 727 for a a512. So mine will be lighter than yours, but I have not weighed it to find out. When swapping the trannies, I dinged up my passenger side bar, so I am not looking for handling as much as making sure I have the car setup correctly.

Thanks everyone for your help!!! 

[randy73]

Trying to make sure I do the right thing (for a change), if I go with 1" firmfeels, my stock shocks will be fine and if I go with 1.06", I need stiffer shocks, correct?

Thanks again.

[Nacho-RT74]

that sounds kinda logical... for a low ride setup

[HPP]

It depends on what you mean by stock shocks. If you are talking plain oil filled, oem style, $9.95 at the local box store, no, the are barely capable of controlling stock rates.  Stock appearing, nitrogen charged gas shocks are good up to about 175# wheel rates and that is pushing the envelope. Beyond that you really would do better to get improved shocks. IMO, better shocks will actually go a long way to improving even the stock spring rates and I'd spend my money on shocks before t-bars. The shocks control such a wide range of variables that their quality has a profound influence on how the rest of the suspension works together.  Think of them like what a camshaft is to an engine. Cams and shocks will determine the width of operating range and efficiency of operation within that range.

Remember - the spring determine how much weight it takes to bottom out the suspension. The shock determine how quickly that bottoming occurs.

[randy73]

Now, how do adjust the car to the proper ride height?

[ODZKing]

Not difficult, I did mine in my driveway.  Jack up the car and be sure the wheels hang.  In other words, by the frame, not the front suspension.
With the wheels off the ground there is a bolt on the arm as pictured. No doubt there is a "suggested" height for the front end but basically you can have any height you want. That is the beauty of Torsion Bars.

Been a while but I believe clockwise is raise - counter-clockwise is lower. Either way, you'll figure it out quickly.
Also keep in mind, if you lower the left front only, the right rear will look higher, so be sure to do them evenly.

[ODZKing]

Here are the specs from the service manual, what ever they mean 

[randy73]

Thanks and can someone translate the toe in part to english?

[ODZKing]

Service Manual

[flyinlow]

It depends on what you mean by stock shocks. If you are talking plain oil filled, oem style, $9.95 at the local box store, no, the are barely capable of controlling stock rates.  Stock appearing, nitrogen charged gas shocks are good up to about 175# wheel rates and that is pushing the envelope. Beyond that you really would do better to get improved shocks. IMO, better shocks will actually go a long way to improving even the stock spring rates and I'd spend my money on shocks before t-bars. The shocks control such a wide range of variables that their quality has a profound influence on how the rest of the suspension works together.  Think of them like what a camshaft is to an engine. Cams and shocks will determine the width of operating range and efficiency of operation within that range.

Remember - the spring determine how much weight it takes to bottom out the suspension. The shock determine how quickly that bottoming occurs.

Yea I would agree. Since mono shocks are not available for 73-74 cars I modified the LCA on mine to use a KYB Gas Adjust for a .Monty Carlo.  This shock was almost a little harsh for the stock T bar but seams not quite enough for the FF 1.06.  May have to try and fit a QA or something this winter.