What would you do?

[bull]

I was planning on having my 383 rebuilt while the car is being painted. I would do it myself but for the first time in my life I was thinking it would be nice to actually have a balanced engine, and that obviously can't be done in my garage. The place I planned on taking the engine would be doing a mild performance upgrade and balance for around $2600. It would include a 3 year/unlimited mile warranty. A friend of mine told me I should do the rebuild myself and check the cyl. wall taper to see if it needs to be bored. I would have no problem doing it myself but I'd still like to have one that's balanced so it raised the question in my mind as to the importance of a balanced engine. So here it is: how important is it to balance an engine? What are the benefits? Longer life maybe? Smoother running? What do you think?

[firefighter3931]

Bull, there's no question in my mind....balance the engine. It will run smoother and last longer.

Ron

[8WHEELER]

The first time I went through the engine in my red charger I did not get it balanced, less
than a year later I pulled it back out took out the low comp pistons and put in 11.5 to 1
TRW units had the hole thing balanced this time WOW what a diference it made, it would
idle smother and I would say reved faster although it might have just seemed that way
because it would rev up more smoothly, and that was in 1980 the same engine is in the car now.

Like I said before I would never build another engine without having it balanced

Dan

[694spdRT]

I had my 440 balanced and it was only $130 upcharge. If you want to save some money I suppose you could just have the bottm end done and then do the reassembly yourself. I did that and saved some $$. The warranty would be out the window though.

Like stated above the engine does seem to idle and rev like no other big block I have ever owned before.

[bull]

That's what I figured. Thanks for the input.

[bull]

The first time I went through the engine in my red charger I did not get it balanced, less
than a year later I pulled it back out took out the low comp pistons and put in 11.5 to 1
TRW units had the hole thing balanced this time WOW what a diference it made, it would
idle smother and I would say reved faster although it might have just seemed that way
because it would rev up more smoothly, and that was in 1980 the same engine is in the car now.

Like I said before I would never build another engine without having it balanced

Dan

So would you still reccomend the TRW pistons with that compression ratio, Dan? Sounds like a winning combo.

[Recharger]

I would agree with them...get it balanced, have it done by a pro.   As much as I love working on my own car and doing as many repairs as possible with my own labor, engine work just isn't one of them.   There are lots of cosmetic repairs that can be fudged by an amateur, but there's no room for error when it comes to machining/balancing your engine.   Have it done right the first time and then beat the hell out of it.     

[firefighter3931]

The first time I went through the engine in my red charger I did not get it balanced, less
than a year later I pulled it back out took out the low comp pistons and put in 11.5 to 1
TRW units had the hole thing balanced this time WOW what a diference it made, it would
idle smother and I would say reved faster although it might have just seemed that way
because it would rev up more smoothly, and that was in 1980 the same engine is in the car now.

Like I said before I would never build another engine without having it balanced

Dan

So would you still reccomend the TRW pistons with that compression ratio, Dan? Sounds like a winning combo.

I'm not Dan but i can tell you i wouldn't expect an 11.5:1 motor to run on pump gas....assuming that is what you want to do.   

Ron

[8WHEELER]

UMMM Well that was not the hole story, yes I still have the same 11.5 to 1 TRW pistons
I put in the engine in 1980, but I also am running the 915 closed chamber heads that I
also ported 15yrs ago. I have allways put all my own engines together and helped friends
as well but I leave the machine work to the shops except the porting.

10yrs ago I could run this engine on premium pumped gas but in the last 8-9yrs HELL NO.
From what I have been told its about 12.5 to 1 with the closed chamber heads so
I have to run about 4 gallons of race fuel just to drive it to a car shows since I no longer race
the car.

Anyway I would not go over 9.5 to 1 with todays gas, and evan a 9.5 engine can pump out
some good power depending on the rest of your combo.

Dan

[bull]

So guys, tell me what kind of setup you'd go with for a mild to strong performance rebuild on a 383. I would prefer to keep it simple by running on pump gas but I still want as much punch as it will muster and still hear myself think while sitting at a stop light. Let's just say I'm not going to the race track with it but but there won't be any chance for carbon to build up either.

[Chargerguy74]

Your motor's for the 4 speed? I don't think I'd ever run an unbalanced motor with a 4 speed....not the way I drive.

[bull]

Your motor's for the 4 speed? I don't think I'd ever run an unbalanced motor with a 4 speed....not the way I drive.

I don't think I'd want an unbalanced engine in any situation, 4spd or not. I was basically asking if it was worth it to have one blanaced, meaning is it typically a huge improvement or just nominal.

[Chargerguy74]

I think the "insurance" of a balanced engine is worth the price alone. I balanced mine, I figured I could spend a small fee on balancing, or scatter thousands of dollars all over the highway.

[bull]

I hear you. Things have changed a lot from back in the day when I was 18 and my dad, brother and I rebuilt a 383 in the garage for my '70. I bought a set of semi-used pistons and a rebuild kit and went to work with a hone. I had to hammer one of the pistons out but when we were finished the engine ran like a dream. I jumped in the car with open manifolds and drove it to the muffler shop. The thing ran awesome for the next 10 or so years I owned it. Now days people don't really do that sort of thing. The cars we took for granted 20 years ago are too valuable today.

[Chargerguy74]

exactly

[Recharger]

So guys, tell me what kind of setup you'd go with for a mild to strong performance rebuild on a 383. I would prefer to keep it simple by running on pump gas but I still want as much punch as it will muster and still hear myself think while sitting at a stop light. Let's just say I'm not going to the race track with it but but there won't be any chance for carbon to build up either.

Bull, until a few weeks ago, I was planning a rebuild for my 383 very similar to what you just described.   I wanted something with decent power and good street manners, but no need for drag strip performance.   From searching around the old site and asking a few questions, the main components I decided on were:

750cfm carb
Holley Street Dom or Eddy Torker intake (Performer RPM sounds good too, but I was scared off by the clearance issues)
906 stock heads, ported, polished, hardened seats, 3 angle valve job
Engle K56 or K58 cam, (or something else in the 220 °-230 °@.050 ballpark)
stock valves & 1.5:1 rockers
1  ¾â€ headers to 2  ½â€ x-pipe exhaust w/ Dynomax muffers (the hp manifolds would work fine too)
Upgraded oil pump, fuel pump, hi-flow water pump & electronic ignition system
10:1 pistons, though I hadn’t gotten around to looking at any specifics
Fuzzy dice

Seemed like this was a decent build-up for power in the lower rpm range.   I have since decided to go the stroker route with my engine, so that has sorta changed the equation a bit and I’m back to square one.   BTW, I have a really nice Torker intake if you’re looking for one.   Good luck with it.

[BigBlockSam]

the motor in my rod is balanced. even with a big cam it idles smooth. i 'm balancing the new 440 i'm building. cheap insurance. Rene

[Chryco Psycho]

Bull, there's no question in my mind....balance the engine. It will run smoother and last longer.

Ron

I agree

[Ghoste]

It's almost a waste of money to have an engine apart for a rebuild and NOT balance it.  It makes the rest of the combo work so much better together.

[bull]

So guys, tell me what kind of setup you'd go with for a mild to strong performance rebuild on a 383. I would prefer to keep it simple by running on pump gas but I still want as much punch as it will muster and still hear myself think while sitting at a stop light. Let's just say I'm not going to the race track with it but but there won't be any chance for carbon to build up either.

Bull, until a few weeks ago, I was planning a rebuild for my 383 very similar to what you just described.   I wanted something with decent power and good street manners, but no need for drag strip performance.   From searching around the old site and asking a few questions, the main components I decided on were:

750cfm carb
Holley Street Dom or Eddy Torker intake (Performer RPM sounds good too, but I was scared off by the clearance issues)
906 stock heads, ported, polished, hardened seats, 3 angle valve job
Engle K56 or K58 cam, (or something else in the 220 °-230 °@.050 ballpark)
stock valves & 1.5:1 rockers
1  ¾â€ headers to 2  ½â€ x-pipe exhaust w/ Dynomax muffers (the hp manifolds would work fine too)
Upgraded oil pump, fuel pump, hi-flow water pump & electronic ignition system
10:1 pistons, though I hadn’t gotten around to looking at any specifics
Fuzzy dice

Seemed like this was a decent build-up for power in the lower rpm range.   I have since decided to go the stroker route with my engine, so that has sorta changed the equation a bit and I’m back to square one.   BTW, I have a really nice Torker intake if you’re looking for one.   Good luck with it.

That all sounds pretty good, well, except for the fuzzy dice. I'll hang onto this list when I go to talk to the guys at the shop and see what they think. The engine already has an Eddy Performer intake but for some reason it's got a 600cfm Eddy carb. Too small. Also the chump who installed it got one with a manual choke but didn't hook it up to anything. At least he didn't drill a hole in the firewall and dash for a cable. Any advantage to a Torker over a Performer?

[Ghoste]

The Performer (not the Performer RPM) is basically an aluminum version of the stocker.  The Torker is the higher performance piece in this case.

[bull]

The Performer (not the Performer RPM) is basically an aluminum version of the stocker.   The Torker is the higher performance piece in this case.

Gotcha.

So Recharger, how much do you want for the Torker?

[Recharger]

Check your PM.   

[gsmopar]

I was planning on having my 383 rebuilt while the car is being painted. I would do it myself but for the first time in my life I was thinking it would be nice to actually have a balanced engine, and that obviously can't be done in my garage. The place I planned on taking the engine would be doing a mild performance upgrade and balance for around $2600. It would include a 3 year/unlimited mile warranty. A friend of mine told me I should do the rebuild myself and check the cyl. wall taper to see if it needs to be bored. I would have no problem doing it myself but I'd still like to have one that's balanced so it raised the question in my mind as to the importance of a balanced engine. So here it is: how important is it to balance an engine? What are the benefits? Longer life maybe? Smoother running? What do you think?

$2600???  You could almost put together a nice little stroker engine for that price.  I agree with the fella above, I think I payed $170 to have my crank, rods, pistons, and flex plate balanced.  It's not that big of a deal.  The link below might give you some ideas for your 383 block.  Of course if you found a 400 or 440 block you could go bigger 

http://www.440source.com/

[bull]

I was planning on having my 383 rebuilt while the car is being painted. I would do it myself but for the first time in my life I was thinking it would be nice to actually have a balanced engine, and that obviously can't be done in my garage. The place I planned on taking the engine would be doing a mild performance upgrade and balance for around $2600. It would include a 3 year/unlimited mile warranty. A friend of mine told me I should do the rebuild myself and check the cyl. wall taper to see if it needs to be bored. I would have no problem doing it myself but I'd still like to have one that's balanced so it raised the question in my mind as to the importance of a balanced engine. So here it is: how important is it to balance an engine? What are the benefits? Longer life maybe? Smoother running? What do you think?

$2600???   You could almost put together a nice little stroker engine for that price.   I agree with the fella above, I think I payed $170 to have my crank, rods, pistons, and flex plate balanced.   It's not that big of a deal.   The link below might give you some ideas for your 383 block.   Of course if you found a 400 or 440 block you could go bigger  

http://www.440source.com/

Yea, I could, but then it would no longer be a numbers matching car. And I have no place to store a 383 indefinitely.

[gsmopar]

Use your 383 block.  I think Car Craft just did an ariticle on a stroked 383 budget build.  2600 is too much to pay for a rebuild (balanced or not). 

Numbers matching???  Aside from the date code on the side of your block, which numbers would you be referring to?

[Runner]

acually you can stroke the 383 to 431 pretty easily now days.


  and if your are seriously worried about the numbers matching block, then there is no doubt in my mind that biulding a low deck stroker is the way to. hurting a block happens, and it happens even in a street car, even when they are being babied aound.    as far as storage all you really need to do is clean it up really nice, put something like a light film of wd 40 in all the bare metal places, put in it a bag and set it in your closet.
   

    my wife has been worried for years that we would hurt the numbers matching block in our roadrunner, theres no more worries about that any more, its been put away. 

   at the very least if your worried about numbers matching, biuld another 383.   

[bull]

Use your 383 block.   I think Car Craft just did an ariticle on a stroked 383 budget build.   2600 is too much to pay for a rebuild (balanced or not).  

Numbers matching???   Aside from the date code on the side of your block, which numbers would you be referring to?

Ok, the date code then. And I don't think there are very many Aug, 1967 383 blocks around with D383 stamped on the distibutor base.

[bull]

acually you can stroke the 383 to 431 pretty easily now days.


  and if your are seriously worried about the numbers matching block, then there is no doubt in my mind that biulding a low deck stroker is the way to. hurting a block happens, and it happens even in a street car, even when they are being babied aound.      as far as storage all you really need to do is clean it up really nice, put something like a light film of wd 40 in all the bare metal places, put in it a bag and set it in your closet.
    

     my wife has been worried for years that we would hurt the numbers matching block in our roadrunner, theres no more worries about that any more, its been put away.  

    at the very least if your worried about numbers matching, biuld another 383.     

I'm really not all that worried about hurting the original block. I know it's a possibility but so is hurting the entire car while driving on the freeway. Heck, I could die in a fiery crash on my way to the car show. I'm not one to sit around rubbing my hands together, dwelling on the what-ifs. And I'm even less likely to dedicate a three-foot by three-foot space on my garage floor to a retired 383.

GSMopar,

I'll rebuild the original engine but $2,500 - $2,600 seems to be the going rate around here. That's start to finish, long block to long block disassembly and reassembly. I don't see the long-term value in reassembling the engine myself because I don't have the time and I'd rather not void the warranty. Another place I checked here in Portland wanted $2600 and offered no warranty whatsoever.

[gsmopar]

Portland huh?  Sorry I missed you!  I was on a temporary assignment up there for about 6 months.  Anyway, would you like the phone number of a friend up there that can probably hook you up for much cheaper?  This isn't a garage or business, just a friend of mine with a lot of mopars that might be willing to help you with your 383.

I don't put much stock into engine warranties.  How did that line go:  "I can take a crap in a box and put a warranty on the side, but it's still just a piece of crap."  I don't even want to imagine the hastle of getting a garage to warranty a rebuild on an almost 40 year old car with their rebuilt pos between the frame rails.

Later,

Greg

[bull]

Portland huh?   Sorry I missed you!   I was on a temporary assignment up there for about 6 months.   Anyway, would you like the phone number of a friend up there that can probably hook you up for much cheaper?   This isn't a garage or business, just a friend of mine with a lot of mopars that might be willing to help you with your 383.

I don't put much stock into engine warranties.   How did that line go:   "I can take a crap in a box and put a warranty on the side, but it's still just a piece of crap."   I don't even want to imagine the hastle of getting a garage to warranty a rebuild on an almost 40 year old car with their rebuilt pos between the frame rails.

Later,

Greg

Ill take the guy's number, thanks.

This shop I told you about with the warrantly is a reputable place that's been around a long time. I tend to take a warrantied piece of crap over a regular piece of crap. You always take your chances but your chances are usually better with a warranty.

[694spdRT]

Sometimes a warranty is nice to have. A good friend and co worker had his '69 390 out of his AMX completely rebuilt last year. Since that time it has not stopped using oil and the shop is pulling it apart free of charge this fall.

[Ghoste]

Warranty's are good if they stand behind it.  I worked in a shop once that offered  a warranty service through some aftermarket warranty company.  That really just amounted to repair insurance and like any insurance company, all claims were handled by an adjuster whose job was to ensure that you DIDN"T get paid for your claim.

[gsmopar]

I sent my friend a link to this thread. He'll post up if he's interested. 

I think the warranty statments above kind of sum it up for me:  Adjuster that keeps you from getting paid, AMC that uses a bunch of oil, etc...  If I did the work and something is messed up it's my own fault which for some reason I find easier to accept than a garage making a mistake.

For your 2600 price tag you could almost do a stock rebuild on the bottom end (balanced of course) and pick up a nice set of E-heads.  You'd have a screaming little 383 and the piece of mind that you know exactly what went into the engine.  How many stories do you hear like:  I paid for forge pistons and H-beam rods, but when the engine blew I found a bunch of stock parts in the block....

[bull]

I sent my friend a link to this thread. He'll post up if he's interested.  

I think the warranty statments above kind of sum it up for me:   Adjuster that keeps you from getting paid, AMC that uses a bunch of oil, etc...   If I did the work and something is messed up it's my own fault which for some reason I find easier to accept than a garage making a mistake.

For your 2600 price tag you could almost do a stock rebuild on the bottom end (balanced of course) and pick up a nice set of E-heads.   You'd have a screaming little 383 and the piece of mind that you know exactly what went into the engine.   How many stories do you hear like:   I paid for forge pistons and H-beam rods, but when the engine blew I found a bunch of stock parts in the block....

Not that it hasn't happened but I don't remember hearing a story like that. And I've never had someone try talking me out of getting a warranty on anything before. I don't see how having a warranty naturally equates to substandard work on the part of the shop. It seems more likely that the shop offering me the same job at the same price but no warranty would be more likely to cut corners.

[bull]

gsmopar,

You should probably take into account the individual business I have chosen to deal with rather than write all engine rebuilders off as being in the same category of dishonesty. You are apparently concerned about this process so here are some sources to check out Portland Engine Rebuilders (by the way, this business handles its own warranty process, it is not farmed out to independent adjustors):

http://www.thebbb.org/commonreport.html?bid=50001060
http://portlandenginerebuilders.com/index2.html
http://portlandenginerebuilders.com/quality.html

Price is not usually the issue with me when it comes to the restoration of my Charger. I'm more interested in having the car done right the first time so I can enjoy it longer in its finished state without having to go back and do things over. This is why I have chosen the best body/paint man in my area and the best engine rebuilder. I believe those two things may well account for at least 50% of the total restoration process.

[gsmopar]

Sounds like you've made up your mind, and yes, you're correct;  I tend to put all garages, engine builders, dealerships, etc... into the same category.  Pretty much I feel that no one will put as much effort and attention to detail into my vehicles as me.  If I can't do the work myself I reluctantly take it somewhere and usually am dissappointed in the result.

Later,

Greg

[bull]

Sounds like you've made up your mind, and yes, you're correct;   I tend to put all garages, engine builders, dealerships, etc... into the same category.   Pretty much I feel that no one will put as much effort and attention to detail into my vehicles as me.   If I can't do the work myself I reluctantly take it somewhere and usually am dissappointed in the result.

Later,

Greg

I agree, but when it comes to building an engine you're kind of SOL if you want it balanced. I mean to balance it the shop that does the balancing works the block over and installs the crank, push rods and pistons, and then another machine shop has to rebuild the heads so really what's left to do except bolt it all together and add on the pan, valve covers, fuel pump and intake? I guess you could rebuild the bottom end yourself and then have it balanced but I have to assume most shops won't play that game.

[gsmopar]

I assemble the engine myself.  If something is wrong it's MY FAULT.  Does your garage degree the cam, check crank specs (not with a plasti-gauge, that's BS), cylinder taper, etc...?

[bull]

I assemble the engine myself.   If something is wrong it's MY FAULT.   Does your garage degree the cam, check crank specs...?

Dunno. I'll have to ask. They've been at it since '72 with few or no complaints so whatever they're doing it must work.

[cudaken]

 I guess, I must spend to much when I do a engine. $2600.00 to me sound's not cheap but far from being over priced.

$90.00 turn crank
$40.00 hot tank
$120.00 resizes rods
$40.00 install new rod bolts
$40.00 check for cracks
$40.00 install cam bearing's
$140.00 Punch block out
$80.00 Install new pistons
$150.00 Balances
$120.00 Bearings
$120.00 Rings
$40.00 Oil pump drive
$280.00 Pistons
$50.00 Apr Rod bolts
$50.00 Oil pump
$70.00 Good timing chain
$250.00 New Cam
$50.00 Push Rods
$24.00 Frezze plugs
$90.00 Gaskets
$1834.00 Total for short block and box of part's.

I have more than that in my short block, but it was to make the engine stand up to the Supercharger and would not be needed in a mild street engine. With the age of are engines I can easly see spending $1200.00 in the heads just to make them right, not modified. Had 2 set's of 906's and one was off a running car. Both set's needed all new guides, set's springs and vales.


One thing Bull, make sure you have the shop to check the block deck height! It effect ever thing, compression, cam lift and port alinement. Mother Mopar was very, very, very sloppy about deck height!



                         Cuda Ken

[Runner]

ken, what pistons did you put in your blower motor that cost 280 bucks?.   my cheapo kb's were 300.



  and the differeance will be, he most likly will end up with a stock type (or very cheap timing set), badger pistons (dirt cheap but hey i ran 12.49 with them in my 383 and they were in the motor for 10 years and i spun it past 7k more times than i care to know.)   ring will probably be hastings, most likly stock rod bolts. cam and lifters will be much cheaper.  the engine shops get a huge price brake as well becasue they buy in large volumes. 

   but if your looking for a way to have a fresh motor and for it to run decent, and a good warrentee then thier is nothing wrong with going that route. 


   

[bull]

Ken,

IIRC the $2600 price includes rebuilt heads as well so you're essentially getting a long block.