Can you test a water valve? UPDATE: Pics inside

[Dino]

'69 A/C car.

The previous owner said the water valve started leaking at the firewall so he took it out and removed the two long hoses.  He cut off a short piece of hose and connected waterpump and whatever else the long hose is supposed to go to.  It's getting chilly out there so I was looking into fixing the heat, I'll deal with A/C next season!

I was looking at the water valve, moving the spring, checking for broken parts but didn't see what was wrong.  I peeked into the tubes and saw a bunch of stuff stuck in there, looked like paper that got wet.  I carefully pried in there with a small screwdriver and got all the paper out.

I'm wondering if the tube just got blocked and water came out from between the tube and hose, the po did say there was no leak inside the car, just on the engine side.

Is there a way to test the valve before I bolt it back in?

Also, can someone explain how exactly this valve works?

The hoses that go from firewall to waterpump are gone but they are plain 5/8" hoses right?  Something I can find at the local auto parts store?

[ChargerST]

Pretty easy to test: hold the water valve in your hand, plug one pipe with a thumb and try blowing air through the other pipe. You'll notice if the seal is bad as pressure would drop.

[Dino]

Pretty easy to test: hold the water valve in your hand, plug one pipe with a thumb and try blowing air through the other pipe. You'll notice if the seal is bad as pressure would drop.

That's pretty easy alright!  I'll give it a try when I get home.  Thanks!

[Dino]

So apparently the seal is good after the 'air' test.  I also laid it on its back with the copper tubes up, poured some water in it and left it for an hour or so.  When I came back the tubes weree still full of water.

I do not understand how the whole thing works though.  How  does the valve in the tube open and close???

There's a small slider on the back of the water vale that has a thin spring connecting the slider to the valve housing.  What is it supposed to do?

There is also a thicker spring behind the copper tube and actual valve and there's some sort of clip in there as well.  The other end of the housing has some rod with a small phillips screw on its side.  I'm trying to figure out how this all works but I'm not getting it.

Also there's a metal solid wire going from the valve to a small plate that bolts onto the heater box.  Does that wire run inside or outside the box?  I didn't remove the water valve and the fsm doesn't really show this.

I'm soking the entire valve in a vinegar and salt solution to loosen things up a bit but until I know how this system works I don't want to reinstall it and risk having the whole thing leak in the car.

[ChargerST]

Can you post a picture of it? It's easier for me to explain it having a picture. It's not that complicated. Basically the rod in the tube regulates the amount of water that passes through the tubes. If the rod is fully retracted water flow is shut down completely.

[Dino]

Here's a few pictures.

I left it in the vinegar and salt solution overnight and this morning cleaned it up with hot water.  The plate and tubes were all painted black so I removed it all.  It's not done yet but it's getting there.  There's more movement in the parts now but still don't know what exactly these parts are supposed to do.

[Dino]

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[Dino]

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[ChargerST]

Alright. Take a look at picture 4. The lever that is connected to the spring is the temperature control lever - the heater temp cable attaches to it. In the position like in pic 4 the valve is closed (at least almost). Move the lever and see how the tip of the valve (you can see it in pic 3) rod moves in and out - Pushed in means that there is water flow - all the way out: no water flow.
The copper wire is actually a capillary tube. It was designed to sense icing on the A/C evaporator and to open the water valve if de-icing was necessary. Most of the times these devices don't work properly but this isn't a big deal.

[Dino]

Alright. Take a look at picture 4. The lever that is connected to the spring is the temperature control lever - the heater temp cable attaches to it. In the position like in pic 4 the valve is closed (at least almost). Move the lever and see how the tip of the valve (you can see it in pic 3) rod moves in and out - Pushed in means that there is water flow - all the way out: no water flow.
The copper wire is actually a capillary tube. It was designed to sense icing on the A/C evaporator and to open the water valve if de-icing was necessary. Most of the times these devices don't work properly but this isn't a big deal.

Ok so something isn't working as it should then.  The lever doesn't do a thing, doesn't hit anything until you move it all the way as in pic 4, there's some resistance when the lever pushes on some small cilinder inside and the tip of the pin moves less than 1/32", it literally barely moves.  I guess everything's a bit stuck in there so I'll try to get some movement in those pieces.  Right now it's not doing much.  How far should that pin move in and out?

EDIT:  Is it possible that the valve itself is stuck in the tube?  It seems that it should come up more.  The 'air' test also failed now unless I push the clip with my finger.  I don't mind taking it apart and replacing the seal and or making one if needed.

EDIT 2!     I took the housing off the back, carefully bending the 4 tabs.  The mecahnism now works as it should, sliding the lever makes the spring go in and out by about a quarter inch so that part works fine, the valve in the tube is another story, it looks like it's stuck so I'll somehow have to fix it.  This is gonna be fun....

So napa carries the seal that's between the tube and the housing plate right?  Which means I need to fabricate whatever seal is in the actual valve....oh boy....

[ChargerST]

No, you don't have to fabricate the seal. There is an Australian company that sells the two seals. I'm trying to find the link..

Check these pages: http://www.studebaker-info.org/tech/Ranco/rancotb/rancotb.html and http://www.packardinfo.com/xoops/html/downloads/HOW-TO%20Ranco%20Valve%20Seal%20Replacement.pdf

[Dino]

No, you don't have to fabricate the seal. There is an Australian company that sells the two seals. I'm trying to find the link..

Check these pages: http://www.studebaker-info.org/tech/Ranco/rancotb/rancotb.html and http://www.packardinfo.com/xoops/html/downloads/HOW-TO%20Ranco%20Valve%20Seal%20Replacement.pdf

Thanks for the links!  I'm unsure where the second seal is now, is it in the tube itself on the valve stem? 

Before I take it apart, how far in and out should that stem move?  Right now it's pretty much stuck in the tube it seems.

[gtx6970]

I've not taken one apart so I have no other input.
But a friend of mine redid his with positive results

Using one of these kits

http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?A=BK_6601000_0060741709&An=599001+101969+50020+2020008+4020032+5999999+27128&Ar=AND(P_RecType%3aA)

[Dino]

I've not taken one apart so I have no other input.
But a friend of mine redid his with positive results

Using one of these kits

http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?A=BK_6601000_0060741709&An=599001+101969+50020+2020008+4020032+5999999+27128&Ar=AND(P_RecType%3aA)

Yeah that's the one that goes between the tube and the housing.  I guess it doesn't hurt to change it out.  I still can't figure out how far that stem is supposed to move in the tube though.  

I'll likely end up replacing that seal and hope for the best, I really want to avoid getting a waterleak inside the car.

The good news is that with the valve apart I can really clean it up nicely, lotsa crud in there!

[Dino]

I used this link as a guide to take the valve apart.
http://www.packardinfo.com/xoops/html/downloads/HOW-TO%20Ranco%20Valve%20Seal%20Replacement.pdf

I followed the valve body removal instructions to the letter and it worked great!

After another soaking in a vinegar/salt solution I was able to get all the rust out although I still have to get inside the mechanism a bit better so I need a smaller steel wire brush for that.

I used a tootbrush style steel wire brush and some steel wool to get all the rust (and coats of black paint) off the entire thing.  The base plate is still pitted but at least it is clean.

The original seal was a mess so I got the new one from napa, ready to go back in.

I bought a spray can of engine enamel clear to spray the front of the base plate and the outside of the valve body for extra protection, haven't sprayed it yet though.

I took these pics last night, I wish I had pics of what it looked like before but imagine 40 + years of rust + a few coats of thick black paint and you'll get the idea.

When it's all assembled again I'll give another update.

This is a fairly easy task so anyone out there with a leaky water valve, you can fix it easily.

[Dino]

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[Dino]

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[Dino]

last ones for now

[Dino]

By the way, the previous owner left the screws in the firewall after he removed the valve assembly.  Of course one of them is gone.  I doubt I can find these anywhere so I hope I can find something that looks like it.

[tan top]

looks good  

[ChargerST]

On the pictures of the pipe it looks like there is a hole where the upper pipe joins the lower pipe..

[Dino]

On the pictures of the pipe it looks like there is a hole where the upper pipe joins the lower pipe..

It does look like it but it's actually remnants of the black paint.  I didn't want to go too crazy with the wire brush seeing it's a soldered seam so I left it alone.  I plugged the small valve stem hole in the bottom and filled the tubes with water to check for leaks and all is well!

[ChargerST]

Nice work! I polished mine with a polishing wheel but didn't take off the pipe and mechanism as I didn't wanna take the chance to break it. Turned out nice but not as good as yours!

[Dino]

Nice work! I polished mine with a polishing wheel but didn't take off the pipe and mechanism as I didn't wanna take the chance to break it. Turned out nice but not as good as yours!

Oh believe me, if I didn't think it was necessary to replace the seal I would not have taken it apart.   

It wasn't nearly as bad as I thought but I do still have to put it back together and bend the tabs back.  I don't expect any to break but you never know.

Once it's back in the car with the hoses on, most will be obscured so I'm sure yours looks just fine!