Are R/T clones worth more?

[XS29L9Bxxxxxx]

...took the emblems I had in the grille of my 1996 Dodge Ram 2500 van and badge-engineered the car to go faster  Is she a clone, now?

[XS29L9Bxxxxxx]

duplicate post 

[skip68]

That's the basic mentality.   Don't get me wrong ...   
If I had rt emblems I would probably put them on.  It ads Bling to the car. I'm sure that most if not all here that have "rt clones" just like the stripe and badges look and that's cool.   It does look good so why not do it.  I think anymore serious thought into it is crazy. 

[Cooter]

Thing is, the clone with all ths sh*t that an original R/T has, but has upgraded brakes, suspension, etc. Will bring more than an original That is "As delivered" because of the price and VIN...

In ORIGINAL FORM yes, a slant 6 Charger from 1969 will never bring what a well optioned R/T with 440 will. However, do what i mentioned above and guess what? Most out there will pay more for a car they don't have to be "Boxed in" with whatever it came with as far as matching numbers goes.

Sure, your all original 440/Hemi R/T might be the sh*t come show day, but on Sat. night there's a 572 C.I. Clone that will blow your sh*t right off the road, and THAT makes certain "Clones" worth more come sell time...Afterall, the R/T was the sh*t 40 years ago, today, gimme the 800 HP Stroker version.

[1969chargerrtse]

" Sure, your all original 440/Hemi R/T might be the sh*t come show day, but on Sat. night there's a 572 C.I. Clone that will blow your sh*t right off the road, and THAT makes certain "Clones" worth more come sell time...Afterall, the R/T was the sh*t 40 years ago, today, gimme the 800 HP Stroker version. "

What?  No flipping way.  I'll, and most people will take the rare original Hemi any day over something someone created through someone else's taste.

[Back N Black]

" Sure, your all original 440/Hemi R/T might be the sh*t come show day, but on Sat. night there's a 572 C.I. Clone that will blow your sh*t right off the road, and THAT makes certain "Clones" worth more come sell time...Afterall, the R/T was the sh*t 40 years ago, today, gimme the 800 HP Stroker version. "

What?  No flipping way.  I'll, and most people will take the rare original Hemi any day over something someone created through someone else's taste.

Hemi's are waaay overrated, its only 426 hp?? and a bastard to tune. 

[skip68]

All in all, the real rt's come with instant value as they are more desirable.   Clones value is all based on how well they are done.   As for us guys that really don't care, I have a quote for those that do.........

"BADGES?  WE DON'T NEED NO STINKIN BADGES " 

[Orange_Crush]

Look, you can snipe back and forth about this until a giant asteroid turns us all into a cloud of fine red mist, but facts are facts.

A big block car is worth more than a small block car.
An R/T clone is worth more than a small block (and some big block) XP chargers.
A real R/T is worth more than a clone
A 4-speed is worth more than an auto
A V-code is worth more than a U-code
A Hemi is worth more than all of 'em.

A numbers-matching car is worth more than a non-numbers car.  

With some exceptions, the big money always goes for numbers and/or provenance.  You can build a silver satellite that is dead-nuts EXACTLY like the silver bullet, but at the end of the day, the Silver Bullet has a history and you just have a hot-rodded satellite.

Its the same with numbers cars.  You can build a car that is an exact replica in every single detail (save the VIN) of an R/T...but at the end of the day, it didn't roll off the assembly line in St. Louis with an XS on the VIN tag and that makes a difference to the guy who will spend the big bucks.

So, in summary, if it don't have a number, it better have a history.

That being said, and in spite of the fact that I own a numbers R/T 4-speed...I personally am much more drawn to the oddball XP cars than I am to the numbers XS cars.

You show me one of the 500 slanty '69 Chargers made, and I will spend half a day crawling all over the thing.

[skip68]

I will gladly trade my car for your rt 4sp.  I'll even repaint my car any color you want.   

[Brock Lee]

I don't think there are enough people selling fully restored 318 Chargers to original condition to gauge. Many of the true R/T clones (meaning the car has been upgraded completely to R/T spec) are also fully restored. Most 318 cars are in need of some level of restoration.  That makes a big difference in value, but is easy to overlook. 2 comparable cars restored to the same level, one stock 318, one R/T clone, likely would only have a couple thousand gap. But the R/T clone would no doubt sell quicker.

[1969chargerrtse]

Look, you can snipe back and forth about this until a giant asteroid turns us all into a cloud of fine red mist, but facts are facts.

A big block car is worth more than a small block car.
An R/T clone is worth more than a small block (and some big block) XP chargers.
A real R/T is worth more than a clone
A 4-speed is worth more than an auto
A V-code is worth more than a U-code
A Hemi is worth more than all of 'em.

A numbers-matching car is worth more than a non-numbers car.  

With some exceptions, the big money always goes for numbers and/or provenance.  You can build a silver satellite that is dead-nuts EXACTLY like the silver bullet, but at the end of the day, the Silver Bullet has a history and you just have a hot-rodded satellite.

Its the same with numbers cars.  You can build a car that is an exact replica in every single detail (save the VIN) of an R/T...but at the end of the day, it didn't roll off the assembly line in St. Louis with an XS on the VIN tag and that makes a difference to the guy who will spend the big bucks.

So, in summary, if it don't have a number, it better have a history.

That being said, and in spite of the fact that I own a numbers R/T 4-speed...I personally am much more drawn to the oddball XP cars than I am to the numbers XS cars.

You show me one of the 500 slanty '69 Chargers made, and I will spend half a day crawling all over the thing.

I agree 100% but this was my point.

Its the same with numbers cars.  You can build a car that is an exact replica in every single detail (save the VIN) of an R/T...but at the end of the day, it didn't roll off the assembly line in St. Louis with an XS on the VIN tag and that makes a difference to the guy who will spend the big bucks.

[charge69]

Well, I have not weighed in on this one yet but ... A numbers-matching Hemicar from the factory and restored to equal condition is ALWAYS gonna bring more money than a clone no matter what motor or how much horsepower it has in it now. I don't care if it has 500 or 1000hp and is a 426 or a 612cu. in. motor, it just will not bring the money an original Hemicar will.  That, my friend, is just the way it is right now. What is so hard to understand about that? 

They made a little over 400 Hemichargers in 1969, actually around 432 and that is it. Most do not even still have the original motor there now. There probably is not too many numbers-matching Hemichargers left.

I am not from Missouri but you would definitely have to "show me" where a clone car actually sold for more than the real thing, equally restored or very close. Just doesn't happen in the real world. I don't care what motor it has in it compared to a real XS car!

I, personally, love to look a ALL restored and unrestored Chargers and do not care if it is a clone car or not but, if I was buying, You can bet I would care! I darned sure would make sure of what I was buying, be it XP or XS and a numbers-matching Hemi would not be on my list. I bought mine a long time ago when they were worth about as much as a 440 was, (very little due to a lot of factors) and just got lucky as I was not looking for one even then.

If someone is driving a clone, more power to them and I will enjoy looking at it as much as a real XS but, DO NOT tell me it is a real XS if it ain't! And NO, I, and any other sane person,  would not pay as much for an equally restored clone as compared to a real derivative model from the factory! I am not saying I would look at it as "just a clone", rather, I would enjoy it as much as a real one if you did not try to hide the fact that it is a clone.

There is plenty of room for "cloned" cars in the shows and, especially driving them but ..... that is another topic. (I will drive mine, real or not!!)   

[ugly2u]

"BADGES?  WE DON'T NEED NO STINKIN BADGES " 

That really cracked me up! Thanks

The horse is dead, stop beating it.
The original post didn't suggest clones would be worth more than the real McCoy. We can all agree on that fact, I think. Could a 318 car sell for more than it's book value if it were upgraded with "r/t" parts (not just badges  ) The answer would depend on the quality of the upgrades.

A big block car is worth more than a small block car.
An R/T clone is worth more than a small block (and some big block) XP chargers.
A real R/T is worth more than a clone
A 4-speed is worth more than an auto
A V-code is worth more than a U-code
A Hemi is worth more than all of 'em.

A numbers-matching car is worth more than a non-numbers car. 

Seems logical to me. I'll buy that for a dollar....

[Darkman]

My "numbers matching" 383 68 Charger will have R/T badges on the grill and on the tail panel.....ONLY because I think they look better than the arrow badges.

It will not be a "correct" R/T clone nor will I profess it to be, but someone driving next to my car may presume it is an R/T and will not know any different until I stop and explain or they look at it....is that being cheeky?

Take the badges and stripe off a genuine R/T and park it next to a standard 318 car and it will look exactly the same from a distance without looking at the VIN, so IMO it doesn't make it less of a muscle car because it is not an R/T.

Would I pay more for a proper R/T "clone" over a well built non R/T Charger? No, because at the end of the day it is just some bages.

[1969chargerrtse]

My "numbers matching" 383 68 Charger will have R/T badges on the grill and on the tail panel.....ONLY because I think they look better than the arrow badges.

It will not be a "correct" R/T clone nor will I profess it to be, but someone driving next to my car may presume it is an R/T and will not know any different until I stop and explain or they look at it....is that being cheeky?

Take the badges and stripe off a genuine R/T and park it next to a standard 318 car and it will look exactly the same from a distance without looking at the VIN, so IMO it doesn't make it less of a muscle car because it is not an R/T.

Would I pay more for a proper R/T "clone" over a well built non R/T Charger? No, because at the end of the day it is just some badges.

They would not look the same. The R/T would have sexy chrome exhaust tips. Putting on R/T badges over arrow badges because you don't like the look of arrow badges just doesn't make sense. If you're putting on R/T badges you're looking for others to see it as a R/T.

" Take the badges and stripe off a genuine R/T and park it next to a standard 318 car and it will look exactly the same from a distance without looking at the VIN, so IMO it doesn't make it less of a muscle car because it is not an R/T. " It is less of a Muscle car than a true R/T. My God we were just closing this subject out.  

[Darkman]

Putting on R/T badges over arrow badges because you don't like the look of arrow badges just doesn't make sense

neither does converting it to RHD, but I'm doing that too

Tell you what, next time you are down my neck of the woods, pop in for a visit, I'll buy you a beer or two (or 4) and we can talk about the do's and don't's of car building 

[1969chargerrtse]

Putting on R/T badges over arrow badges because you don't like the look of arrow badges just doesn't make sense

neither does converting it to RHD, but I'm doing that too

Tell you what, next time you are down my neck of the woods, pop in for a visit, I'll buy you a beer or two (or 4) and we can talk about the do's and don't's of car building 

Thanks for the offer but I don't drink.  Yeah, to each their own.  That's the first time I ever heard that, " I don't like the look of the arrow badges "
The do's and don't go like this,  build what you want and how you want it.  Enjoy. 

[D13vyl]

Hi Guys

In the UK, muscle cars are expensive to buy especially when importing etc, in $ mine was worth over $40K, but to be fair it has upgraded steering / suspension etc. Again mine when new many moons ago was a 318ci and wasnt an RT. However today she has a 440ci in her now but i still wouldnt put an RT badge on her as she wasnt originally one in the first place. Regardless of the badge, shes a beauty and will get the care she deserves;

Rene

[68pplcharger]

Interesting question... are they worth more? I don't care either way. didn't buy one to sell it. that's not what attracts me to muscle cars. that aspect ruins the hobby IMO. I build what I want and if somebody doesn't like it then don't bother me about it. I didn't build it for them, it was built to makes me happy. I agree, the badges look cool then why not add them. Original cars are cool to have for the history, but my car was a field car with no original parts left. Makes for a another type of  historical car. The hot rod... It was an original 383 charger, but will now have RT badges and stripe. Also have a non-original  color (plum crazy purple) and a pistolgrip shifter. I can't help it if they didn't put the cool colors and the wicked  shifter on the best years 68-69 IMO... 

[Dino]

Despite of some 'bickering' this thread has brought up some good points.  Thank you all for still being fairly friendly on this apparetnyl touchy subject.   

I see that some don't see a clone as others do.  A clone is NOT a base Charger with badges, it is still just a base Charger (nothing wrong with that by the way)

A clone is an exact copy of an R/T meaning it has the 440 (or hemi), the HD 727 or 4 speed, 8 3/4 rear or dana with the manual trans, extra leaf spring, bigger brakes, bigger sway bar, chrome tips and whatever else the R/T came with.  Putting R/T badges on a 318 car does not make it a clone.

I am strongly opposed to anyone 'selling' their clone for the real deal, it is fraudulent.  I do not have a problem with having the look of an R/T without hiding its true colors.

I asked the question because of the car that was for sale and I always wondered what would bring the most money, the bone stock numbers matching 318 or the same car with upgraded R/T parts.  Some of you very clearly state the clone would bring more, others would likely spend more for the 'time capsule'.

Personally, I bought the car I did because it started life as a base 318 car that had all the fun R/T upgrades.  The original stuff was gone so I would have no problem installing power windows and door locks and painting it a different color than stock.  I could not do that with a time capsule car or a true R/T.

My car is a clone top to bottom, it does not have the badges front and rear but does have the stripe.  I would have ripped it off as soon as I got it for two reasons:  I don't want to give the illusion that I think an R/T is the only good charger and I simply don't like the look of the stripe, I think it cuts the beautiful rear quarter lines.  The 68 strip is much nicer imo, but still I wouldn't want it.

Would I have paid less if the car was not a clone but had a non original 318?  No, it would have made absolutely no difference.  Would I have paid more if it had the matching 318 and 904?  Nope, I would have walked away, I can't modify original cars, don't have it in me.  I guess we all have different views on these steel beasts.


Of course the wife loves the look of the black strip on the white car, hence it is still there.  I'm gonna have to breake it to her slowly that the stripe will eventually have to go.  I'll probably leave it on there untill I prep the car for paint.

She also loves the look of the black vinyl top on the white body and would love to keep it all as is but change the F8 interior to black.....and I really want the car to be black without vinyl top and with a saddle interior, hence the picture request thread.  I really don't like vinyl tops....

[XS29LA47V21]

Original colors (& some rare/desirable options) I believe are a impact within the RTs value. (absolutely to me).  Buyer beware, I mean buyer get to choose what is important to him/her.  I have visited with good friend on this topic many times where we agree to disagree, he is completely all about a very straight no rust ever 318 car build it like you want where I circle around and enjoy rare options and colors (rust a some point does become a problem and into play for me too). 

"triple black RT" on ebay now, with some stuff less "correct" but advertised as a real triple black RT with PWs (apparently no fender tag/bld sht).
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Dodge-Charger-?cmd=ViewItem&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D5%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D3750029501019320520&_trksid=p5197.m7&item=150679900016

[Dino]

No fender tag or build sheet is a bit scary, how do you check what is correct?  Why the heck did they paint a 440 blue?

[XS29LA47V21]

not crazy about a paint stripe to non-typical color myself, built it how he wanted it I guess

[Dino]

not crazy about a paint stripe to non-typical color myself, built it how he wanted it I guess

I do like the dark maroon although there's nothing wrong with the original colors.  I'd go for the power seat and windows though.  I will definitely install power windows on mine.  The xv kit is pricey but an easy install but maybe I can install original Chrysler power motors, not sure yet.  I don't think I want to pay for a power seat track IF I can find one.  It's a novelty since after adjusting it once it's pretty much there to stay.

[XS29LA47V21]

poor wording on my part, original colors if original can't get much better in my eyes .... 3xblack....(ok maybe white).  I do not care for colors which vary from factory or the custom stipping with basically one exception a nice 318-383 car or what ever hot rodded up some with original color stripe of sorts with out the RT badges.  There is a nice 383 car on ebay, looks quite nice black with subtle black stripe, looks cool