Are R/T clones worth more?

[Dino]

When I bought mine, I really couldn't care less about it being a clone, in fact I dislike the stripe that's on it because it's not a real R/T so it will be removed.

This car is on ebay yet again, you know, the one with the bondo'd butt.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1969-Dodge-Charger-R-T-Clone-Silver-FULLY-LOADED-/160666609418?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item256879e70a

It passed $20K and people are still bidding.  It has a nice paint job but that's about it, everything else is in driver condition.

It used to be a 318/904 just like mine, but this one has power windows and disc brakes which I don't have. (yet)

I've only had mine for 4 weeks, paid $15K for it and it came with a spare grill, wilwood disc brake and line kit, spare intake manifold and carb, dual snorkel and a bunch of other stuff.  I've had several people 'offer' me more for it but two people were actually dead serious and tried to get the car for $25K.  One was the guy who installed my driveway, he looked at a few cars in the Detroit area inlcluding a $25K R/T matching numbers and said it wasn't nearly as nice as mine.  I don't know what it is about this car, it just looks right I guess.  It was repainted white and the white vinyl top got replaced with a black one but the interior is original.  I guess people feel the same I as I do, nobody tried to mess this car up so everything actually works on it. 

A local mechanic rebuilt the cop 440 and did a great job, install looks clean, no messy wires.  Maybe that's why people want to pay up, I don't know.  It just looks like a really nice car.

I know non original hemi's go for a ton of money but I never thought an R/T clone would fetch this much.  I guess it's the same old saying, it's worth what people pay for it.

[bakerhillpins]

I guess it's the same old saying, it's worth what people pay for it.

I think that's just it right there. Sometimes I just don't understand it... but then again sometimes I do. I was willing to pay more for a lesser car if it had the original options I was looking for. So it's just hard to say.  Still want a 4spd car and maybe some day that will come along. Guess it's why I keep looking even though I just got mine. 

Bryan

[Dino]

I guess it's the same old saying, it's worth what people pay for it.

I think that's just it right there. Sometimes I just don't understand it... but then again sometimes I do. I was willing to pay more for a lesser car if it had the original options I was looking for. So it's just hard to say.  Still want a 4spd car and maybe some day that will come along. Guess it's why I keep looking even though I just got mine. 

Bryan

I was prepared to pay more for mine as well as it was exactly what I wanted, I don't think I could have found a more ideal car for my needs and it was 45 minutes from my house to boot!

If I find a 4 speed I'll let you know!

[bbjones]

Just thought I'd add a link to another silver one for about the same price for comparison...

http://seattle.craigslist.org/oly/cto/2657368297.html

1969 Dodge Charger w/ 68 grill. PS & PB. 440 HP block, new TCI Super-Streetfighter 727 tranny, new TCI 3000 Stall Converter, B & M Pro-shifter, 509 cam, 906 heads, Torker II Intake, steel crank & forged TRW piston, MSD Pro-Billet Distributor, MSD 6AL Ignition, Holley 750 Double-Pumper, new chrome Powermaster Alternator, Holley Mechanical fuel pump, new aluminum radiator w/ dual electic fans, new fuel tank & sending unit and everything else I'm forgetting. All the best stuff. Brand new PPG Viper Silver paint & no rust in the car. Have pictures. Side markers were deleted. Custom Corbeau high-back reclinable seats w/ the back seat & speaker panel custom re-covered to match. The door panels could use refreshing. Wheels - American Racing Retros 17 x 8 (255) fronts & 18 x 10 (295) rears, Toyo TR1 performance tires. Car runs hard and strong. Have pictures of the tear down, paint and assembly. There's still a few bits & pieces that need to be put back on the car that I haven't got to yet since I've been too busy driving it, but it's all there. Clear title and fender tag that matches the VIN.

Is there another car in the world as BAD ASS as a Charger? Absolutely not! Own it for a reasonable price.. Asking $22,500. Will take a little less minus wheels & tires. Serious buyers only & leave your number. I'll call you back with more details! Out-of-country buyers will need to provide proof of funds prior to viewing or dealing.

[XS29L9Bxxxxxx]

To me, a pair of $70 R/T emblems DO NOT add any value - in fact, most of these cars no longer have their orig. engines. To me, that further diminishes values...

Cool cars? Of course... Worth more, Nope 

[XS29L9Bxxxxxx]

When I bought mine, I really couldn't care less about it being a clone, in fact I dislike the stripe that's on it because it's not a real R/T so it will be removed.

This car is on ebay yet again, you know, the one with the bondo'd butt.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1969-Dodge-Charger-R-T-Clone-Silver-FULLY-LOADED-/160666609418?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item256879e70a

It passed $20K and people are still bidding.  It has a nice paint job but that's about it, everything else is in driver condition.

...and knowing what they paid a couple mos. ago, flipper should take the profit and run

[Dino]

To me, a pair of $70 R/T emblems DO NOT add any value - in fact, most of these cars no longer have their orig. engines. To me, that further diminishes values...

Cool cars? Of course... Worth more, Nope 

Well it adds $70...

All kidding aside with clone I mean having the 440 and hd suspension and drivetrain, not badges or a stripe. 

[skip68]

R/T's are over rated.   It's a 40+ year old upgrade, a stripe an badges.      

Am I missing something here.  It's not like it's a hemi, Daytona, 69 500, 4sp, or 6pk car.  It drives me nuts every time I hear R/T clone.  I start laughing.    I'm thinking about building me a R/T clone to.     HOW THE HELL DO YOU CLONE A CAR THAT ALREADY LOOKS THE SAME?  
OH THAT'S RIGHT, YOU PUT AN R/T ON THE SIDE.    
Sorry class, anyone, anyone .....

[1970Moparmann]

I've seen a swing over the years.  First it was "I want a RT" now it is "I can afford...." .    I have seen where original nice cars are low in price now, but, cars in the 10k - 20k are selling for more than what they were before.   This is on Ebay at least.  On Craigslist, it is a little different - better deals.  

[440]

This further adds to the pricing confusion, should a numbers matching XP car cloned into an R/T be roughly the same price as a non-numbers matching XS car  

[Dino]

I'm with you skip, the whole R/T thing is a bit redundant in the modern age but since 440 engines are more desirable than 318's it does make sense that they go for a bit more, unless the 318 was numbers matching...maybe.

I feel that making a 'plain' Charger an R/T clone is a bit insulting, I can't think any less of a charger just because it doesn't have a 440 or 426, it's still the coolest car ever!

I need to get the stripe off of mine soon. 

I think having an actual XS car would make it more expensive as there are less made than xp's but I do think the gap is closing.  How many Chargers are left out there anyway?  For all we know there are more xs chargers available than xp's!

Ebay is always overpriced but honestly it's a good reflection of current market value, people pay it so we need to take it in consideration that these are valid prices.  It's harder to sell on CL without the option of multiple bidders I think so prices go down instead of up.

All in, considering the economical state we're in, these toys do fetch a good dollar still.

[twodko]

To me, a pair of $70 R/T emblems DO NOT add any value - in fact, most of these cars no longer have their orig. engines. To me, that further diminishes values...

Cool cars? Of course... Worth more, Nope 

greed.

[Orange_Crush]

OK, I didn't bother to read most of what you wrote (mostly because I'm a lazy asshole) so I'm gonna reply to your question at face value.

The answer is "it depends."

For example, given similar condition, a well done 440/727 R/T clone will sell for more than a 318/904 car.

This, of course takes into account similar condition and provenance.  

Things change a little if you have...say...a 383 4-speed XP car.  Compared to a 440/727 R/T clone, given similar condition, I would say the 383 car would be worth more than the R/T clone.

[Dino]

OK, I didn't bother to read most of what you wrote (mostly because I'm a lazy asshole) so I'm gonna reply to your question at face value.

The answer is "it depends."

For example, given similar condition, a well done 440/727 R/T clone will sell for more than a 318/904 car.

This, of course takes into account similar condition and provenance.  

Things change a little if you have...say...a 383 4-speed XP car.  Compared to a 440/727 R/T clone, given similar condition, I would say the 383 car would be worth more than the R/T clone.

Eh don't worry about it, I talk too much.

I do agree with that statement, a 4spd xp 383 would be worth more in my book as well.

I should rephrase the question.

Let's take an xp Charger, 318 and 904 inan 8 out of 10 condition.  Owner is purring along and runs over Kirsty Aleey on a bad day and rips the entire drivetrain from under the car.

The owner is deciding to replace everything with another 318, 904, 8 1/4 and stock leaf springs, or replace everything with R/T drivetrain.  Which would bring most money in a sale?

I seriously do not have the answer. 

[Orange_Crush]

R/T's are over rated.   It's a 40+ year old upgrade, a stripe an badges.      

Am I missing something here.  It's not like it's a hemi, Daytona, 69 500, 4sp, or 6pk car.  It drives me nuts every time I hear R/T clone.  I start laughing.    I'm thinking about building me a R/T clone to.     HOW THE HELL DO YOU CLONE A CAR THAT ALREADY LOOKS THE SAME?  
OH THAT'S RIGHT, YOU PUT AN R/T ON THE SIDE.    
Sorry class, anyone, anyone .....

R/T denotes, in most cases, a lot more than a badge upgrade.  R/Ts are the only ones that got 440s and Hemis (and 6-packs in 1970).  

Not to mention the Dana 60, 18-spline tranny, and all those great suspension upgrades (which, btw, your XP car has if it got the towing package).

That is what I mean by a well-done clone.  A poorly done clone is two badges and (in some cases) a stripe.  A well done clone is badges, stripe, engine, transmission, suspension, and depending on the car, a rear end swap.

[XS29L9Bxxxxxx]

R/T's are over rated.   It's a 40+ year old upgrade, a stripe an badges.      

Am I missing something here.  

Yes, you missed the fact the 440 was standard in the R/T on many Chargers (68-70, for example)   Given that, it becomes much more than a 40+ y/o upgrade, stripes and badges...

[Orange_Crush]

OK, I didn't bother to read most of what you wrote (mostly because I'm a lazy asshole) so I'm gonna reply to your question at face value.

The answer is "it depends."

For example, given similar condition, a well done 440/727 R/T clone will sell for more than a 318/904 car.

This, of course takes into account similar condition and provenance.  

Things change a little if you have...say...a 383 4-speed XP car.  Compared to a 440/727 R/T clone, given similar condition, I would say the 383 car would be worth more than the R/T clone.

Eh don't worry about it, I talk too much.

I do agree with that statement, a 4spd xp 383 would be worth more in my book as well.

I should rephrase the question.

Let's take an xp Charger, 318 and 904 inan 8 out of 10 condition.  Owner is purring along and runs over Kirsty Aleey on a bad day and rips the entire drivetrain from under the car.

The owner is deciding to replace everything with another 318, 904, 8 1/4 and stock leaf springs, or replace everything with R/T drivetrain.  Which would bring most money in a sale?

I seriously do not have the answer. 

R/T drivetrain.  no question.

The only person who would pay more for the stock is someone who HAS to have a bone-stock car (and they are out there).

[bull]

A 440 will add value over a 318 but many factors determine how/if the overall value increases. Basically it depends on the trends at the time and the quality of the work done to the car. For example, if all that was done to a car was that the original 318/904 was replaced with a used 440/727 and some R/T badges were added, the only value increase that's logical is the value increase of a rebuilt 440 over a worn 318. That said, many people would not like that the original engine was removed so it's probably a wash in the case of those people. Personally I would think the buyer would rather be the one who determines the fate of the 318, not the seller but that depends on the status of the 318. Is it long gone or was it just yanked and set on the floor?

In the case of this car I think the reason it's doing well is because it looks good on the outside. I would imagine that the people bidding it up to its current price are overly optimistic and have more money than brains  However, if the body work is good (though it sounds like it isn't) and the paint is good it would be a good tinker-mobile and driver. I'd like to know the state of the suspension and see some pics of the underside though. This statement doesn't instill a lot of confidence, "I haven't gone under the car, but from what I can see it looks great..."

[Cooter]

You guys are assuming that there aren't "Funny" bids in this as well..How do we know the seller hasn't got fifty of his friends to push the bid/bids up by i think the term now is "Shilling?"

[RECHRGD]

This thread is kind of a new twist on the old R/T clone discussion.  When I bought my xp car over 14 years ago the 440/727 and suspension upgrades were already done.  Being that I wanted to finish it as a clone/tribute to my original R/T I bought new in '68, putting the badges and stripe on was a no brainer for me.  I've always enjoyed the fact that I can drive the hell out of it without the added worry of it being a super high value matching numbers original R/T.  The thousands of people that have admired the car over the years couldn't care less whether it has a P or an S in the vin.  That said, I have noticed that cloned cars are getting higher dollars than in the past and I have had some people offer me some serious money.  It takes just as much money to restore/build a clone as it does a matching numbers original.  I think the days of the huge disparity in prices between an original and a clone are coming to an end.  The original will always be worth more, but how much more will rely on a lot of factors.

[bull]

You guys are assuming that there aren't "Funny" bids in this as well..How do we know the seller hasn't got fifty of his friends to push the bid/bids up by i think the term now is "Shilling?"

I did think about that but then the "people are just dumb" theory won out.

[Back N Black]

R/T's are over rated.   It's a 40+ year old upgrade, a stripe an badges.      

Am I missing something here.  It's not like it's a hemi, Daytona, 69 500, 4sp, or 6pk car.  It drives me nuts every time I hear R/T clone.  I start laughing.    I'm thinking about building me a R/T clone to.     HOW THE HELL DO YOU CLONE A CAR THAT ALREADY LOOKS THE SAME?  
OH THAT'S RIGHT, YOU PUT AN R/T ON THE SIDE.    
Sorry class, anyone, anyone .....

Come on Chuck,your saying R/T clones are over rated and your driving a General Lee clone.

[Charger-Bodie]

If a clone is Done to a high quality level it can bring a high price tag........... My Black 68 R/T clone was rotiserie done and (not to brag) very nice brought 54k. bought form me in 2009 by Best of Show auto. They sold it 4 days later for just under 80k. Not all people care about numbers,some simply want a nice car thats done in a way that apeals to them. IE R/T clone.

FYI. To me an R/T clone isnt a xp car with emblems. A "cloned" R/T needs the proper brakes , suspension. available engines etc. The whole shootin match.

[redmist]

My all original XP car, 727/383 EE-1 power brakes, stearing, moldings and the works. Now has a 440, and a copes 727. It will not get RT badges but I will put the stripe on the back.

I hope I never have to be in a position to sell this car, so I am going to do whatever I want with it.   

[Mike DC]

                     
I don't think R/T clones are worth more in particular.  I think it's just that any car made into something desirable is worth a bit more than the sum of its parts, period.


A Daytona clone will bring more than the core Charger + the cloning parts.  Same for a "General Lee" clone.  Etc.  An R/T clone is no different. 

Heck, even a stock Charger will bring more when the paint color is more desirable.  It's not that the more desirable color costs more to mix up and spray, it's just that the existing condition of a car is worth a little something even though most owners are willing to modify it after they buy it.