New Camaro....

[Cooter]

Am I the only one who really doesn't care about any of those cars?  I don't find the Camaro, Challenger or Mustang to really be anything special.  

Nope, not the only one. All of the musclecars today are overdone, over weight, and over priced for what you get.


Yet, try and get $40K for a 500 HP '69 Charger and you'll be laughed at.

[1969chargerrtse]

Am I the only one who really doesn't care about any of those cars?  I don't find the Camaro, Challenger or Mustang to really be anything special.  The Mustang and Challenger are nice looking cars but they are a mere shadow of their predecessors.  Frankly I get tired of seeing one every five minutes, Mustang at least, not that many Challengers around.  Now I don't dislike them, they look fine and I'm sure they perform great but they don't have anything going for them like the old rides do, there's no real art in the design.  That goes for the interior mostly I guess, I love the interiors on old cars but these new cars look boring as hell.  There's a guy in my area with a black Challenger that I run into from time to time.  Every time I see the car I try to like it, try to find something that stands out, but I can't.  I didn't tell the owner though, he's very nice and why would I step on his dream, apparently he cherishes it as it's spotless every time.  When he give me the thumbs up for my Charger, I return the favor, at least he's into cars.

The Camaro is plain and simple a design freak, it's ugly no matter how you look at it.

I'm not a huge Ford fan but I think the Mustang is great, old and new.   I love the look.

[Chryco Psycho]

Most of the overweight is gov regulations on building cars , you cannot get away with a 5lb bumper , add airbags & computer management & a wiring harness with about 7-8x as many wires to controls everything + all the save you butt systems for traction , braking , even auto parking features there is no way to build a lightweight car .
I still like the new Chall , comfortable , great power ,handling & braking & decent milage

[Ghoste]

Me too.

[Cooter]

there is no way to build a lightweight car .

I beg to differ. The new Challenger was built for the overweight American as well as the over weight vehicle. Look at the sheer size of the damn thing. If your Big/tall/wide/whatever, ass can't comfortably ride in a 1970 Challenger, why do you need one that's about the size of a MACK truck compared to the original?

It didn't need to be that big. Less car means less weight. Chevy figured out that fiberglass doors/hoods/body/etc. pass Gov. regs just as easily as metal ones. No, Mercedes engineering had alot to do with the weight of the new Challenger. Not the buying public. If you can't fit into the Muscle car, then you don't buy one simple as that. If your willing to scrunch up to fit in a 1970, then you should fit fine in a smaller, Newer, lighter version today...

[myk]

The new 5.0 is HOT.  I would argue it's one of the greatest muscle cars of all time; you can hate it all you want but the performance is there and that's what these cars are all about.  If I was in the market to buy a new muscle car it would be a tie between the '12+Charger R/T and the new 5.0, then the Challenger, and then at a very distant 3rd the Camaro, although I don't ever see myself looking to buy those cars as I already own the greatest version of Charger and GM musclecar, IMO of course.

It didn't need to be that big. Less car means less weight.

I'm pretty sure the makers are rectifying this as we speak; I've heard that in the next redesign both the Mustang and the Camaro are going to be a lot more svelte and less porky as they are right now.  But, given that the cars we're looking at now are just the 1st generation of each I think they're doing fine-they'll only get better over time.  As for Dodge?  Who knows-these are the guys that kept running full 'alt power through the dash into the mid 90's so who knows when they'll get with the program...

[Ghoste]

Dodge are by NO means the only automaker (or hard good manufacturer of any sort) in the world who cling to certain technologies over others.  As for the Challenger being the size it was, if you wanted a two door V8 powered rear wheel drive it most certainly had to be that size.  The car is based off of the mid size four door family sedan, remember?  There is no business model within Chrysler group that could have justified the expense of transferring the marketing demands of that tiny demographic onto a new platform. 

[Cooter]

As for the Challenger being the size it was, if you wanted a two door V8 powered rear wheel drive it most certainly had to be that size.  The car is based off of the mid size four door family sedan, remember?  There is no business model within Chrysler group that could have justified the expense of transferring the marketing demands of that tiny demographic onto a new platform. 

This is why I stated MERCEDES had everything to do with the car being over weight and huge...Chrysler needs to quit pimping itself out like a cheap $2.00 whore. They need to get back to basics like selling cars..

[Ghoste]

True enough.  It was never meant to be a ponycar, they had always wanted it to be the European touring sedan the Germans knew we really wanted.

[bill440rt]

I'd like to know the weight comparison of a bare new Challenger body to an old one. Automakers are utilizing higher strength, thinner steels. Higher structural integrity with thinner steel to save weight. The older cars didn't have this advancement so they just made plain steel thicker for strength.
Heck, even something simple like hardware saves weight. A coffee can full of nuts & bolts has some weight to it, compare that to the plastic clips & smaller bolts used today.
My hunch is that a bare new body is probably comparable or even lighter than the old one, even though it is slightly bigger. I say "slightly" because it's not like comparing a Smartcar to a Lincoln. The additional weight likely comes from the safety features, power accessories, heavier wiring harnesses, modules, etc. I'd still own one.

Back to the original topic, I kinda like the styling of the new Camaro, Mustang, & Challengers.

[Ghoste]

The new Challengers are supposed to weight right around 4000 pounds.  A new Drag Pack one is supposed to be around 1000 less than that BUT in addition to stripping out a lot of the modern cars not needed for racing items it also uses a bunch of carbon fiber stuff.  My guess is that the new one stripped of the modern accroutrements would weigh in at a figure very close to the old one in spite of its girth.  And if you park a new by an old one, you quickly notice the size difference.

[bill440rt]

Yep, fully aware of the size difference.

[Cooter]

The new Challengers are supposed to weight right around 4000 pounds.  A new Drag Pack one is supposed to be around 1000 less than that BUT in addition to stripping out a lot of the modern cars not needed for racing items it also uses a bunch of carbon fiber stuff.  My guess is that the new one stripped of the modern accroutrements would weigh in at a figure very close to the old one in spite of its girth.  And if you park a new by an old one, you quickly notice the size difference.

One cannot even BUY one of those "So-called" drag pack cars unless you are a pro racer. That is Bullsh*t IMO. If I want it and have the money, I should be able to order anything I want...like I said earlier, they are heavy, over weight cars because Chrysler isn't doing what it needs to do in order to satisfy their customers. You have to get all this other BS in order to buy the HP version...Back in the day, you could order a damn race car right off the showroom floor. Chrysler needs to get back to doing this today and they will see profits rise through the roof.

I mean, look how many 500 HP cars are selling today that get 15-20 MPG when fuel is Rising DAILY @ $3-$4/gal.....Nuff said.

[SRT-440]

I'm looking at a Camaro 2SS (Transformer Edition..yup I'm a geek) for my daily driver...the only thing I don't like is a lot of blind spots...but this one has a rear camera that helps.
Another thing to remember...these cars are FULL of sensors, air bags, nav systems, heated/cooled seats, 20+ inch wheels..
strip all that off and put 15 inch wheels, '70 bucket seats, am radio, stock 440 (that would be interesting) and I would bet the new car would be lighter than the old.

Personally, I like seats that blow cold air up my backside! 

[Ponch ®]

Proof that some people just love to have a reason to bitch and can't be pleased. First it was "WAAAAH...Chrysler doesn't have a v8 RWD car. If they made one, I'd get one". When the Charger / Magnum / 300 came out, it was "WAAAAAAH....I won't buy one. It has too many doors. Now, if they did a two door version, I'd be all over it". "WAAAAAH...I don't get all that fancy interior stuff...too many bells and whistles. A muscle car should be bare bones". Then the Challenger came out, and now it's "WAAAAAH...its too big / heavy / expensive. If it was smaller and lighter...". "WAAAAAH...the interior looks sooo cheap".  If FIATsler does come out with the rumored smaller, lighter 'cuda in a couple of years, i can already hear the whining "WAAAAH...it's too small, and I don't like the looks. Chrysler/Dodge needs to go back to building big and heavy muscle cars..."

I think it's funny how most of these posts about why these cars suck (be it the Challenger, Camaro, or Mustang) almost always inevitably begin or end with the "not that I plan on buying a new car anytime soon anyway...my 88 F150 is still going strong" disclaimer. It's like the threads about hot chicks...its always the old, ugly dudes with no game and fat wives that give discourses on why they would NOT bang Kim Kardashian. Please.

But really, it's all about what you like. If you think the Mustang is the shit, by all means get one and enjoy it. I still think the Challenger, price not being an issue, is the best looking of the bunch. I drive the wife's car a couple of days a week and - not exaggerating here - I'll get at least one "nice car" or "damn, I love that car" comment EVERY time. Kinda chaps my hide, actually, because other than tinted windows it's all stock. I get tons of compliments on the '08 Charger all the time too, but I've done a ton of mods to it to get that way.

[70charger_boy]

I don't like how high the Challenger sits. The thing looks like BigFoot

[mauve66]

FIATsler  -  i love it, you should trademark it then market it to them

my kid bought a '12 camaro for his 21st b-day, i tried the challenger is better routine but he just said they were too high priced
he test drove all 3(all V6's, a V8 would of killed him on insurance) for almost a year before he decided on the camaro
i got to take it to MATS this year and run the hotchkiss course with it, it was fun but man a V8 would of sure been better, if you take the traction control off every time you turn the key on it would be alot better

[Indygenerallee]

Would be a new Mustang for me over the Challenger and Camaro I hate the Camaro and the Challenger is priced WAY too high.

[Ponch ®]

I don't like how high the Challenger sits. The thing looks like BigFoot

there are a ton of aftermarket lowering springs for the Chally. Or, if you got the $, go for adjustable coilovers.

It's not rocket surgery.

[ACUDANUT]

 I think the new Challenger looks like a 4x4 too.  It just does not sit right.

[Ponch ®]

I think the new Challenger looks like a 4x4 too.  It just does not sit right.

see my post just before yours. the stance its not exactly an insurmountable obstacle.

[Ghoste]

Well stated Ponch.  (I retain my right to complain but well stated)

[Cooter]

Proof that some people just love to have a reason to bitch and can't be pleased. First it was "WAAAAH...Chrysler doesn't have a v8 RWD car. If they made one, I'd get one". When the Charger / Magnum / 300 came out, it was "WAAAAAAH....I won't buy one. It has too many doors. Now, if they did a two door version, I'd be all over it". "WAAAAAH...I don't get all that fancy interior stuff...too many bells and whistles. A muscle car should be bare bones". Then the Challenger came out, and now it's "WAAAAAH...its too big / heavy / expensive. If it was smaller and lighter...". "WAAAAAH...the interior looks sooo cheap".  If FIATsler does come out with the rumored smaller, lighter 'cuda in a couple of years, i can already hear the whining "WAAAAH...it's too small, and I don't like the looks. Chrysler/Dodge needs to go back to building big and heavy muscle cars..." You want my $40K for that new car??? Better be kissin my ass or I'm gonna point out WHY it isn't worth it. Simple as that. Whining or not.

I think it's funny how most of these posts about why these cars suck (be it the Challenger, Camaro, or Mustang) almost always inevitably begin or end with the "not that I plan on buying a new car anytime soon anyway...my 88 F150 is still going strong" disclaimer. It's like the threads about hot chicks...its always the old, ugly dudes with no game and fat wives that give discourses on why they would NOT bang Kim Kardashian. Please.Just as I stated in another thread about b*tchin' about things one cannot change. Some stated in said thread that they will b*tch even though they cannot change things. Why should "old guys with fat wives" be any different when talking about the new Challenger/Camaro/Mustang/Charger whatever? Sorry Ponch, but I have a hard time beliving you have any more "game" than the perverbial "old guys" so that is a moot point their "Bro". I don't think any of us older [dare I say wiser] guys give two pinches of puppy sh*t about "Game" and all that jazz.

But really, it's all about what you like. If you think the Mustang is the shit, by all means get one and enjoy it. I still think the Challenger, price not being an issue, is the best looking of the bunch. I drive the wife's car a couple of days a week and - not exaggerating here - I'll get at least one "nice car" or "damn, I love that car" comment EVERY time. Kinda chaps my hide, actually, because other than tinted windows it's all stock. I get tons of compliments on the '08 Charger all the time too, but I've done a ton of mods to it to get that way.And it's thinking like this that got the first orders sold. The "Gotta be the first to have anything that's new out" croud. I just prefer to be happy for more than a few minutes, then selling said car off, because my attention span is shorter than 30 seconds. I buy a new car, it better last me the next 25 years for $40K. Therefore, i want my new Challenger MY WAY...

[Cooter]

Gimme the "Drag Pack" Challenger, 6.1 Hemi, 6 speed, Actually Delivered to my dealer RUNNING, instead of some $60K DIY erector set, Dana 60 LIVE AXLE[Keep that IRS Bullsh*t], and price it around $35K.


Gimme the damn thiung MY WAY like Chrysler used to dammit. Of course, there's too many people willing to buy whatever they stick in your face and just "Be happy" with whatever they get so this won't work.

[Ghoste]

Isn't the idea that you can get one partially finished or get them turn key as well though?