Best aluminum heads for the money

[Ghoste]

They are a different combustion chamber too are they not?

[RECHRGD]

From what I was told, the only difference was the plug orientation.

[Ghoste]

Oh okay, for some reason I thought they were an open chamber.

[heyoldguy]

Hi DC Guys and Gals.
Always like a head topic/discussion.
My ambition was always to run a NINE with a street car and 906 heads/440, pump gas, non stroker/nos etc.
(Best was 10.40 in my 68 backhalfed Dart.)
Now want to run a stock appearing 69 Charger into the 10's!
More to the point, my Moparmate is building an A990 clone but wants to run a max-wedge set-up.
Here-in lies the problem, he bought a set of iron MW heads off EbayUS and they never showed!
Seems the seller was a known scammer by ebay
As a knee jerk reaction he then buys a pair of 440-1's that are both cracked from end2end!!!
Double disaster methinks!!!
I have a set of Eddy'RPMs that we are contemplating opening up to MW size,
but I think the new Super Stealth is the way to go?
What do you most knowledgeable guys think on this matter???

Old thread revitalised by unknown Limey yeehaa

Oh yes in case you think I'm a flake, I have here in sunny England a set of Oval-port iron B\B heads from the famous Rye based Weslake Engineering UK.
I believe that there were two sets made one set in the Mopar museum USA, a bizarre closed chamber design and my set which is conventional open chamber, with heat cross-over.
I also have the Mule/Dyno motor that was used for testing which is a work of art also!

Best wishes 500Jon

Some Super Stealth information.

http://forums.moparmusclemagazine.com/70/9425340/general-mopar-technical-discussion/440-source-super-stealth-ootb-and-ported-head-flow/

[el dub]

Here is some info that may help. Just google aluminum vs cast iron heads. I tried to copy and paste but too many letters. Here is some from Hughes Engines.

There are several types or levels of heads available and there is a lot of confusion over what is what. This confusion is in part created by the terms "bolt-on" and "stock replacement". They are used indiscriminately and interchangeably, and no one has stepped forward to either clarify or classify them. We will try!

A "stock replacement" head is one that has the stock location of the ports and rocker arms and these original components will along with the rocker covers and other odd brackets will attach like they did on the original iron heads. No spacers, oil lines or other adapters are required.

"Bolt-on" can generally be interpreted, with cylinder heads, to mean that they will have head bolt holes located in the same "location" as the stock ones. So they will "bolt-on" with the correct bolts, which may or may not be the same as stock, usually not. It does not mean that they are a "stock replacement" head and you should not expect any OEM pieces to fit. This "bolt-on" type head will be a race type head and have the ports raised from the original location and require special intake manifolds or spacers and Special exhaust components, and many times special rocker arms and maybe even external oil lines.

Hope it helps.

[500Jon]

Thanx Guys,
I also assume that 'stock appearing' classes do not allow stock appearing ali heads?
We all know that the 906 and the 452 are the best iron options, but what about stroker motors?
Whats the biggest cubes you can run with well ported iron heads??
Would I be able to use a factory experimental 'W2' style iron head on my 'SA Charger'

Back to 'best ali' then, with 493 cubes, dished pistons for pump-gas and looking for 10-1 comp methinks!
The A990 clone will have an 'Indy' MW crossram, thats why Moparmate went original iron MW route.
Then thought the Indy 440-1's would be fine as they actually look fairly stock on the exterior.
The Eddy's and Mopar452's are clumsy at best in appearance and cannot be hidden by any amounut of panit LoL! :s
So that leaves the new Indy EZ range,Victors, maybe Brodix or cheap as chips Super Stealth.
Mixed reports on the 'SS' heads and I've not seen a set yet to say either way?
I have seen max-wedged Indy SR's and early Stealths and a MopMuscle article on MW Eddy's.
It appears that the SS heads need lots of TLC before use and thats steering us that way.
Or just hog out the RPM's to MW and say "whats it matter" either way???

Thanx for your time 500jon 'the LiMeY'

[heyoldguy]

Thanx Guys,
I also assume that 'stock appearing' classes do not allow stock appearing ali heads?
We all know that the 906 and the 452 are the best iron options, but what about storker motors?
Whats the biggest cubes you can run with well ported iron heads??
Would I be able to use a factory experimental 'W2' style iron head on my 'SA Charger'

Back to 'best ali' then, with 493 cubes, dished pistons for pump-gas and looking for 10-1 comp methinks!
The A990 clone will have an 'Indy' MW crossram, thats why Moparmate went original iron MW route.
Then thought the Indy 440-1's would be fine as they actually look fairly stock on the exterior.
The Eddy's and Mopar452's are clumsy at best in appearance and cannot be hidden by any amounut of panit LoL! :s
So that leaves the new Indy EZ range,Victors, maybe Brodix or cheap as chips Super Stealth.
Mixed reports on the 'SS' heads and I've not seen a set yet to say either way?
I have seen max-wedged Indy SR's and early Stealths and a MopMuscle article on MW Eddy's.
It appears that the SS heads need lots of TLC before use and thats steering us that way.
Or just hog out the RPM's to MW and say "whats it matter" either way???

Thanx for your time 500jon 'the LiMeY'

This may be a poor example of what can be done with 906 heads on a 500ci stroker engine, but it is at least, one example.

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,84922.0.html

[500Jon]

Heyoldguy,
Thanx for the reply!
I just love a 906 iron head motor.
My moparmate bought Tom Nelson's 2003 470 cube engine challenge motor.
It had 572-13 indys and was also based on an ex-Landy 1971 400 block.
Unfortunately disqualified, but was good for 720horses.
We always thought that was only poss due to the quality of the heads!
The best set of 906's I ever saw were done by Rob Lowring (ICE-autos)UK.
Raised port by 1/2" and the floors resined to keep the standard port opening.
On a 446 ali-rod motor with 12 to 1 comp it made around 600horses.
Did run nines in a Dart, but we only managed 10.40 in our 2700lb Dart.

Was always told that 906 intake port is more than good enough.
Its the exhaust port that needs all the work???

Whats the best manifold for all out power on a 906???

Thanx 500jon

[heyoldguy]

The limited testing we have done would seem to indicate the best intake would be dual dominators on a tunnel ram. On the 500 with our ported 906 heads we used the Indy 3X with some epoxy to narrow the runners in the manifold. Next time we'll use the Edelbrock Super Victor in standard port size and port it to the dimensions we want.

When we ran the same 906 heads and the Indy 400-2 intake on a 451 it made 694 HP with 9.7:1 compression, so well ported 906 heads are capable of some nice horsepower.

Yes the exhaust ports on the 906 require some work to flow with the intakes. We destroyed a lot of 906 heads learning what to do with the exhausts and intakes.

Years before he died my Dad told me there were three secrets to making horsepower. The first two secrets were cylinder heads, but third and most important......cylinder heads!

[Budnicks]

The limited testing we have done would seem to indicate the best intake would be dual dominators on a tunnel ram. On the 500 with our ported 906 heads we used the Indy 3X with some epoxy to narrow the runners in the manifold. Next time we'll use the Edelbrock Super Victor in standard port size and port it to the dimensions we want.

When we ran the same 906 heads and the Indy 400-2 intake on a 451 it made 694 HP with 9.7:1 compression, so well ported 906 heads are capable of some nice horsepower.

Yes the exhaust ports on the 906 require some work to flow with the intakes. We destroyed a lot of 906 heads learning what to do with the exhausts and intakes.

Years before he died my Dad told me there were three secrets to making horsepower. The first two secrets were cylinder heads, but third and most important......cylinder heads!

Thanks for sharing... I love your dads quote, I use it often, on a couple of forums, but worded slightly different

[Ghoste]

I've never heard that one before but I like it.  I'll keep it in mind from here on.

[Cooter]

I've spent countless hours and dollars figuring out the forth secret to making horsepower.....

Lots of Nitrous. That one I'm willing to give away, but I'm holding the other three.

[Ghoste]

Yes, spray and pray works well too.

[500Jon]

Hi Guys,

Yep the old Nitrous has been used alot here in the UK over the years too.
Mainly on cars that are near their full potential and need 100 more horses to get that magic number!
I should have used it on my Dart back in the day for running the magical NINE!!!
Since then there has been many versions of ALI-Bigblock heads that have lessened the NOS route.
It never seems to amase me how B-bodies get stuck at 11.0 and A-bods at 10.0.
Big cubes and even bigger ports are the new way now.
Some of us like the old ways too, iron head atop an iron engine.
For us Limeys, Koffel was the main man when it came to iron.
He must have spent thousands of hours with a die grinder, whittling 452's and 906's!
Most of those heads are cracked and gone now.
I have a 906 Koffel head I use as a guide, along with a cracked Hauser 906 and a cracked ICE raised-port 906 too.

Its seems now that CnC Indy heads atop a 600cube motor is the order of the day, as long as you have $25k.
For me I still like the challenge of running a Mother-Mopar all-iron 440 as fast as poss!
If you got $20K budget then life is sorta easy, if you have no budget its much more fun LOL!

So what is the best ali head for the money?
(For me its a 40 year old iron head, cheap as chips.)
I suppose it all boils down to what you wanna do with it?
Bolt it on outta da box, port it to da max.
Run fast or run home!

500jon aka 'the LiMeY'

[1974dodgecharger]

I heard the same old guy was the secret was the heads.......

[Cooter]

Boost today is the way to go. Be it turbo or supercharged.
Way to easy to go stupid fast with 20 PSI. Just can't bring a knife(NA) to a gun fight (Boosted)anymore.

[1974dodgecharger]

VERY TRUE cooter...alot of the civic these days they dont care if they blow up their engine they put 300 shot nitrous in those things just to claim, "I bet a nissan GTR' then comes, 'then my engine blew up'

figure those little 4 bangers are easily replaced engines for what 500 bucks in a junk yard.

[Cooter]

Hadda import buddy I work with attempt to school me on turbos....
He asked how much I thought lb of boost was equal to my 200 shot.
I replied prolly like 15 psi.
He laughed. Said, I can put 9-12 psi on your motor and have you giddy.
I said really? Yeah, but fir what? $3k?
Said, nope. HX52 turbo on epay for like $600.00...
Thats enough to max out at 30 psi..
For about $1500.00, you could have a nasty 440 on about 15 psi.

[War wagon]

Hadda import buddy I work with attempt to school me on turbos....
He asked how much I thought lb of boost was equal to my 200 shot.
I replied prolly like 15 psi.
He laughed. Said, I can put 9-12 psi on your motor and have you giddy.
I said really? Yeah, but fir what? $3k?
Said, nope. HX52 turbo on epay for like $600.00...
Thats enough to max out at 30 psi..
For about $1500.00, you could have a nasty 440 on about 15 psi.

I know of a couple cars running boosted 440's. One is a 70 dart that runs 9.10@159mph on 15psi using a procharger.
I have a LOW comp. motor in the car ATM and have been toying with the idea of boost myself. Nothing puts you back in the seat like HIGH boost.
I would love to build a stroker with about 7.5:1 comp and slap a 94-98 mm Ball bearing turbo on it running 25+ PSI of boost.... Having been down that road with an import I know better...
The costs involved would be staggering

There is a 67 mustang fastback that runs at my local track ( toronto Motorsports park) that is a pro built tube chassis turbo car.
500+ cu in 2 x 98mm turbos and 30 PSI car runs mid 6's at 200mph+

Just make sure your bearings,rods, rings, and pistons are up to the task if you plan on boosting. Otherwise the fun won't last. Built right they can last for a long time IMHO

[War wagon]

Back on topic lol sorry...
My dad has been running edlebrock RPM's that were ported at Hughes . He has been able to get his 4200lb Belvedere into the 10's using them.
Last summer I made him an offer he couldn't refuse LOL , I would buy him new heads and take his RPM's .
The reason being I would have spent close to the same money for my goals as it cost too upgrade dad.
So I bought my father a set of 440-1 INDY heads fully cnc'd.

We have a good friend running the same heads on a 68 GTX . He has a stock READ STOCK bottom end and runs the indy heads. Runs CONSISTANT 10.2@129mph

Definately not for everyone thou, require special headers

We are hoping to put the Belvedere into the 9's this coming season. It's still a street driven full interior car

[Cooter]

Stock bottom end in the low tens? Camshaft can't be stock. He might have stock block crank and rods.
Hell I'm running 6.80's (8th mile) with a junk stroker with under .600 lift cam.

[War wagon]

Stock bottom end in the low tens? Camshaft can't be stock. He might have stock block crank and rods.
Hell I'm running 6.80's (8th mile) with a junk stroker with under .600 lift cam.

Yes my bad the cam is FAR from stock and over 600lift in that car. But the rest of the components are stock and the pistons are .30 over.
Car is consistently running 6.4x in the 1/8th
He had a 572 aluminum world block but grenaded it. This was a low buck replacement built to have fun with while a new monster is assembled. Basically swapped the heads and cam from big motor to a OE short block . 3 summers later it's still running and his new monster motor is almost done.
I should say he has owned and raced the car for 30+ years and knows his stuff
4:56 gears, trans brake, low gear set in trans etc etc

[don duick]

I have 2 chargers both have 440 motors I bought a set of 440 source and a set of eddys 84 cc. the chambers, ports, valves springs, locks and retainers were the same. the  440 source heads had cleaner looking ports. the eddys had 2 rough inlet ports on both heads but was easy to clean up. the 440 source have straight plugs, no header problems. the eddys have angle plugs if using headers then you have to modify number one primary pipe to clear the plug on number 6. easy to do if you are not too fussy on appearance. Both heads have cheap looking locks and retainers. I sent both sets of heads to the machine shop to have them checked ie pressure tested and cc'd. Also had new springs locks and retainers {comp cams} installed. The edelbrocks had 2 leaking exhaust vales on one head only. The seats were recut and the valves were refaced. both sets had less than 84 cc chambers cannot remember numbers but was not much. The machinist says the 440 source was the  better one. I might have got a bad casting on my eddys one of them had a jaggered looking inlet port which would not clean up but not an issue as it sealed ok. The 440 souce heads I bought were made in 2012 the earlier ones were not as good. I have run both engines for about 2000 miles so far.{no racing} both have been ok. Both engines were built to same specs and no difference in performance between them. In summary does not really matter which one you get. up to you if you want to support an American product or save a buck. Also the eddys are available in 2 size chambers 84 and 88 the 84 have a closed chamber which gives you quench which is important. google "quench" interesting read.