Best aluminum heads for the money

[pandamarie]

Which aluminum heads would give me the most HP for the buck with the least amount of problems bolting them on?
Working with a stock 440 block steel crank 10-1 compression, Cam is a Comp 525 lift on both side forgot the duration around 294 I belive. This is a school project so trying to keep costs as low as possible.

[Ghoste]

I think the Edelbrocks personally.

[HPP]

Probably Edelbrocks.

If all out power is the goal, then there may be better alternatives out there, but in "bang fer the buck" its hard to beat the Ebrocks.

[Musicman]

Stealth (Overseas Casting) is by far the cheapest, providing good performance at a minimal cost. Uses a straight plug for better header clearances.

Edelbricks (USA Castings) generally flow better than the Stealth out of the box, but cost a bit more. If porting the heads, Eddy & Stealth use the same CNC program, and both have the same potential. These heads use an angled plug which can effect header clearances.

Mopar Performance (Edelbrick), is an Edelbrick which uses a straight plug like the Stealth. May or may not cost a tad more than the stock Eddy.

[Chryco Psycho]

Super stealth may offer better potential at reasonable cost

[tan top]

Super stealth may offer better potential at reasonable cost

 was only just looking at them earlier   !!    intake runners look good  

http://store.440source.com/Super-Stealth-Cylinder-Head-Bare/productinfo/200-1127

[Musicman]

Oh Yeah, I forgot about them... duh

The're not a bolt on deal of course, but any head should be set up properly before installation anyway.

[Budnicks]

Super stealth may offer better potential at reasonable cost

 was only just looking at them earlier   !!    intake runners look good  

http://store.440source.com/Super-Stealth-Cylinder-Head-Bare/productinfo/200-1127

the Super Stealth is a "Great choice for a starting point for a racing head or at least a mainly track car combo, but very expensive or custom valve train components & 0.650" offset rockers & other specialty parts need to be used...   In my opinion,  For all around for quality of parts used in assembly, combustion chamber size & design, thicker deck surfaces, blind heli-coiled bolt holes, equal flow rates, quality valve springs, good valve sizes, better moly retainers & locks,good weight & overall quality of castings & U.S. made & cost effectiveness the ability to use stock components the Edelbrock Performer RPM's, maybe a special bolt/washer kit & adjustable push rods then as an option, maybe the more expensive adjustable rockers & custom length 3/8" pushrod of many different makes & styles to choose from...  I have used Stealths, Indy's, Pro Comps, Mopar Performance, Brodix... I prefer the Edelbrock RPM for a good street performance to mid high HP racing head, there are better heads for more cubes & higher flow or all out racing applications, but if cost & quality is an issue and it's going to be a street/strip combo the Edelbrock is the best bang for the buck, in the long run, you will spend the extra money to make the cheaper heads as good as the middle of the road in cost Edelbrock RPM heads, the only downfall, if you want to call it that, is the better for flame travel, long 3/4" reach 14mm angle plug design, will limit the use of some of the cheaper off the shelf brand X headers, cast iron HP manifolds will clear easily & TTI make some quality headers that will clear the angle plug design no problem, amongst other header companies...  

[Musicman]

you will spend the extra money to make the cheaper heads as good as the middle of the road in cost Edelbrock RPM heads

Those cheaper heads leave $476 in your pocket... that's a lot of extra money to spend.
Sorry, I just don't see a $476 advantage with the RPM head.
The only reason I would pick the RPM is to support an American Made product, which is important. On a limited budget however, many will choose otherwise.

[Budnicks]

Opinions vary, especially on this subject it seems, to each there own.. just wanted to make a suggestion & give my reasons why I would chose the Edelbrock heads...

[Musicman]

I hear ya... I was just looking for details... never to old to listen. 

[Budnicks]

I hear ya... I was just wondering 

You know this subject comes up all the time, the cheaper stuff has it's purpose for sure, but quality & a better overall product for more money is sometime money well spent, instead of trying to skimp & it bites you in the butt every time, at least in my experiences anyway...

[Musicman]

Well said, and certainly true more often than not.  
The problem most of the time is determining who has the better overall product. 
I guess that's what we're here for 

[pandamarie]

Thanks for the information guys. I will have to look at both a little harder and see what fits in my budget the best. Do plan on using TTI headers because the ymake it easy to get to all the plugs without getting under the car.

[Challenger340]

Super stealth may offer better potential at reasonable cost

 was only just looking at them earlier   !!    intake runners look good  

http://store.440source.com/Super-Stealth-Cylinder-Head-Bare/productinfo/200-1127

the Super Stealth is a "Great choice for a starting point for a racing head or at least a mainly track car combo, but very expensive or custom valve train components & 0.650" offset rockers & other specialty parts need to be used...   In my opinion,  For all around for quality of parts used in assembly, combustion chamber size & design, thicker deck surfaces, blind heli-coiled bolt holes, equal flow rates, quality valve springs, good valve sizes, better moly retainers & locks,good weight & overall quality of castings & U.S. made & cost effectiveness the ability to use stock components the Edelbrock Performer RPM's, maybe a special bolt/washer kit & adjustable push rods then as an option, maybe the more expensive adjustable rockers & custom length 3/8" pushrod of many different makes & styles to choose from...  I have used Stealths, Indy's, Pro Comps, Mopar Performance, Brodix... I prefer the Edelbrock RPM for a good street performance to mid high HP racing head, there are better heads for more cubes & higher flow or all out racing applications, but if cost & quality is an issue and it's going to be a street/strip combo the Edelbrock is the best bang for the buck, in the long run, you will spend the extra money to make the cheaper heads as good as the middle of the road in cost Edelbrock RPM heads, the only downfall, if you want to call it that, is the better for flame travel, long 3/4" reach 14mm angle plug design, will limit the use of some of the cheaper off the shelf brand X headers, cast iron HP manifolds will clear easily & TTI make some quality headers that will clear the angle plug design no problem, amongst other header companies...  

I'm with Budnicks here on the Edelbrock Performer RPM's VERY Well Spoken !

[GPULLER]

I believe that the Mopar "452" aluminum heads would be another good choice.  They are built by Edlebrock (from what I've read), advertised flow is the same as the Eddy's, have standard spark plug locations and wouldn't require the $700 headers from TTI.  They might cost a couple hundred more than the Edelbrocks but the hassle with special shorty plugs and high dollar headers the extra cash doesn't seem so bad.
Not saying anything bad about the TTI headers, everybody that has them has nothing but good things to say about them.  My opinion is there are other headers that do the same for less.

[Ghoste]

Are they only a couple hundred more though or several hundred?  I really dont know so it isnt a loaded question.

[Cooter]

You have the Stealth and Super Stealth which uses the crazy rockers..Then, you have the Eddy Perf. RPM, and the VICTOR from Eddy which also uses the Crazy rockers.
Used to be a time when dumping $650.00 in a set of iron heads was the sh*t, not now...When you can get a set of Compelte heads done up with good stuff for about $1100.00.....

[Musicman]

Are they only a couple hundred more though or several hundred?  I really dont know so it isnt a loaded question.

$730 a head for Eddy RPM - $830 a head for the 452 http://www.mopartsracing.com/parts/bb.html

$500 a head for Stealth

[Brightyellow69rtse]

i picked up a set of stealth and i had the machinist check them out. he thought they were very nt rnice. the only thing he found was the valves werent realy lubed much at all. i also upgraded the locks and keepers. im hoping to have the motor completly assembled tomorrow 

[Budnicks]

You have the Stealth and Super Stealth which uses the crazy rockers..Then, you have the Eddy Perf. RPM, and the VICTOR from Eddy which also uses the Crazy rockers.
Used to be a time when dumping $650.00 in a set of iron heads was the sh*t, not now...When you can get a set of Compelte heads done up with good stuff for about $1100.00.....

There is an old saying  "if you want to make HP you need to concentrate on 3 things 1st Cylinder Heads, 2nd Cylinder Heads & lastly Cylinder heads"... there are many important parts in a performance engine build but the Cylinder heads are probably the make or break point/parts in how much power you can & will be able to make....

[dodgedarren]

I bought the complete Edelbrock Performer series top end kit. Bored
.30 on the block and now she putting out 525hp and 500fpt on pump gas.
Runs super smooth. This is the video of my motor on the dyno stand.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oNTs8XEZfk

[GPULLER]

Very nice!  I'd be happy with that hp in my car.

[Musicman]

Video says 480 HP / 520 TQ  which sounds about right depending on the cam

[firefighter3931]

Big Fan of the Eddy RPM heads  My old 446 made 535hp with a flat tappet on pump gas. That motor in a light A-body would run easy 10's in the 1/4 mile   

Doug (R2) has a set of ported RPM's on his stock stroke 440 (451ci RB block) and it makes 650hp on the dyno and his 65 B-body runs 10-0's at 131-132 MPH.

Very impressive 



Ron

[heyoldguy]

The Edelbrock RPM head is a good head for the money and ported we have made a LOT of horsepower with them. We all have our opinions, in the end, I think the best aluminum head is the one YOU can afford. Just anything other than a stock factory iron head will be a great power improvement.

[GPULLER]

The Edelbrock RPM head is a good head for the money and ported we have made a LOT of horsepower with them. We all have our opinions, in the end, I think the best aluminum head is the one YOU can afford. Just anything other than a stock factory iron head will be a great power improvement.

This coming from a guy who builds 700+ 906 headed strokers!!!   

[Budnicks]

The Edelbrock RPM head is a good head for the money and ported we have made a LOT of horsepower with them. We all have our opinions, in the end, I think the best aluminum head is the one YOU can afford. Just anything other than a stock factory iron head will be a great power improvement.

This coming from a guy who builds 700+ 906 headed strokers!!!   

Yep HeyOldGuy knows his stuff...

[XS29L]

Have any of you folks used the Indy 440-ez ?

[Budnicks]

The EZ's are comparable to the Eddy RPM's in most part, They both can be ported much farther, the RPM's about $1500-$1580 depending on choice of 84cc or 88cc chambers for an assembled pair , advertised 291cfm intake flow, accepts 0.600"lift cam capabilities{angled plugs}... Indy EZ's at a slightly higher price tag ballpark $1800, w/270cc intakes std. ports intake & exhaust, assembled pair of heads only {straight plugs}, to $2000 ballpark price for a full kit, includes push rods, valley plate, gaskets & head bolts, from Mancini Racing....

[kamkuda]

The RPM are a great cylinder head for a lot of street and street strip engines

The EZ can be a better head in a higher HP combo
They have a longer intake valve and flow better out of the box.  The intake can easily be opened up to max wedge size but the exhaust is in the same location.  This allows for use of standard exhaust headers.

I just stepped up from the rpm to the EZ head for my procharger wedge combo as I needed a set of better valve, and porting to get the flow I needed.  The RPM heads are going to be cleaned up at the head porters shop and he will likely have them for sale.

[TXcharger70]

So far for the money I am very satisfied with Stealths Heads.

[spinny]

Can't go wrong with 440source or Edelbrock heads... I chose the source heads because when painted, they look nearly identical to factory castings. I also decided to not have the fully assembled heads so I could have everything checked at the machine shop I go to, then install all the correct components to match the cam. The way I figured it, would cost maybe $200 more than buying the complete heads.

[charger_fan_4ever]

I assume all the aluminum Mopar heads require aftermarket shaft mount rockers ?

[spinny]

Not necessarily. I know the 440source heads can use the stock shaft mounted rocker arms. The machine shop I go to says that a stud kit should be used with aluminum heads, such as the kit from Hughes. IIRC the edelbrocks are the same way. It would probably be better to go to an adjustable rocker arm.

[charger_fan_4ever]

Not necessarily. I know the 440source heads can use the stock shaft mounted rocker arms. The machine shop I go to says that a stud kit should be used with aluminum heads, such as the kit from Hughes. IIRC the edelbrocks are the same way. It would probably be better to go to an adjustable rocker arm.

Interesting.

I'm looking for a 440 for my 70. A stock magnum HP wise would be fine. I have a line on a 69 engine hasn't run in a few years. I don't want to dump $500 plus into stock heads. I forgot about the aluminums as i thought the stock valvetrain would not work. Gain some Hp and lighten up the nose. Food for thought

[Budnicks]

Not necessarily. I know the 440source heads can use the stock shaft mounted rocker arms. The machine shop I go to says that a stud kit should be used with aluminum heads, such as the kit from Hughes. IIRC the edelbrocks are the same way. It would probably be better to go to an adjustable rocker arm.

Interesting.

I'm looking for a 440 for my 70. A stock magnum HP wise would be fine. I have a line on a 69 engine hasn't run in a few years. I don't want to dump $500 plus into stock heads. I forgot about the aluminums as i thought the stock valvetrain would not work. Gain some Hp and lighten up the nose. Food for thought

You will probably at least need slightly longer push rods, to keep the proper rocker to valve geometry, with stock non-adjustable rockers, depending on you specific type hydraulic lifters used & the suggested pre-load requirements, they vary with brands & styles of lifters, head gasket thickness & deck surface changes etc., Usually either a set the of proper thickness of 16 lash caps {cheapest alternative, they fit on top of valve stems}, "custom length" push rods {2nd cheapest alterative} "adjustable push rods" {3rd cheapest alternative} or "adjustable rockers" & the "proper style/length push rods" {most effective, but much more expensive}, those are the alternatives that are usually recommended with most all the aluminum heads... At a minimum you should always check for proper push rod length & rocker geometry when ever changing heads cam or lifters styles & materials, to be absolutely sure, it's cheap insurance in the long run... Good luck

[cdr]

just got some super stealth heads ,been workin on one intake port using my flow bench,so far 320 cfm @.550 with 4.375 bore,im running 4.250 bore & it drops flow to300cfm,but im just starting,we will see when it goes to the track

[heyoldguy]

What are the best heads for the money? This won't tell you. But it does deal with one of the heads mentioned.

Funny thing happened in the shop today. Been working on a set of 1st Gen hemi heads and finally got them to flow over 360 cfm. Never worked on the hemi before and got some results that I wanted to test on another set of heads. Just happened to be a 440 Source Stealth head on the storage shelf that we bought just to test to see what they would produce for flows.

Out of the box they went:

.100".........66 cfm
.200"........142 cfm
.300"........205 cfm
.400"........240 cfm
.500"........255 cfm
.600"........267 cfm
.700"........268 cfm

Maybe a year ago we had stopped testing when they flowed:

.100".........77 cfm
.200"........152 cfm
.300"........209 cfm
.400"........251 cfm
.500"........288 cfm
.600"........304 cfm
.700"........319 cfm

So now I'm curious. What will a regular Stealth head flow if you really give it a chance?
Let's test some ideas.

So, about six hours later, with the stock intake port window:

.100".........77 cfm
.200"........153 cfm
.300"........216 cfm
.400"........265 cfm
.500"........306 cfm
.600"........324 cfm
.700"........337 cfm

Son of a gun, there just might be something to this Stealth.

You can't get that close to 340 cfm and not give it another try.

I don't want to ruin that port, must keep it for reference.
I've got one port that was messed up when we made some mistakes on the short turn. So let's just play with the bad one. 
It has the intake manifold opening another .200" higher and that may help us go over the 340 goal.

.100".........76 cfm
.200"........155 cfm
.300"........218 cfm
.400"........267 cfm
.500"........306 cfm
.600"........327 cfm
.700"........341 cfm

The standard Stealth is now over 340 cfm. Who wudda thunk it!

One more time, and let it all hang out.

.100".........73 cfm
.200"........152 cfm
.300"........218 cfm
.400"........267 cfm
.500"........308 cfm
.600"........337 cfm
.700"........346 cfm

Not to bad for a $500 head.




Glad I don't have to pay for the porting. Or the valves.

[cdr]

What are the best heads for the money? This won't tell you. But it does deal with one of the heads mentioned.

Funny thing happened in the shop today. Been working on a set of 1st Gen hemi heads and finally got them to flow over 360 cfm. Never worked on the hemi before and got some results that I wanted to test on another set of heads. Just happened to be a 440 Source Stealth head on the storage shelf that we bought just to test to see what they would produce for flows.

Out of the box they went:

.100".........66 cfm
.200"........142 cfm
.300"........205 cfm
.400"........240 cfm
.500"........255 cfm
.600"........267 cfm
.700"........268 cfm

Maybe a year ago we had stopped testing when they flowed:

.100".........77 cfm
.200"........152 cfm
.300"........209 cfm
.400"........251 cfm
.500"........288 cfm
.600"........304 cfm
.700"........319 cfm

So now I'm curious. What will a regular Stealth head flow if you really give it a chance?
Let's test some ideas.

So, about six hours later, with the stock intake port window:

.100".........77 cfm
.200"........153 cfm
.300"........216 cfm
.400"........265 cfm
.500"........306 cfm
.600"........324 cfm
.700"........337 cfm

Son of a gun, there just might be something to this Stealth.

You can't get that close to 340 cfm and not give it another try.

I don't want to ruin that port, must keep it for reference.
I've got one port that was messed up when we made some mistakes on the short turn. So let's just play with the bad one. 
It has the intake manifold opening another .200" higher and that may help us go over the 340 goal.

.100".........76 cfm
.200"........155 cfm
.300"........218 cfm
.400"........267 cfm
.500"........306 cfm
.600"........327 cfm
.700"........341 cfm

The standard Stealth is now over 340 cfm. Who wudda thunk it!

One more time, and let it all hang out.

.100".........73 cfm
.200"........152 cfm
.300"........218 cfm
.400"........267 cfm
.500"........308 cfm
.600"........337 cfm
.700"........346 cfm

Not to bad for a $500 head.




Glad I don't have to pay for the porting. Or the valves.

that is good #s, the ones im doing are the new ones the pushrod is moved over, just starting on them,so far not bad for the amount of work i have done,and to repeat what you said,glad i dont have to pay for the porting lol just time

[heyoldguy]

just got some super stealth heads ,been workin on one intake port using my flow bench,so far 320 cfm @.550 with 4.375 bore,im running 4.310 bore & it drops flow to308cfm,but im just starting,we will see when it goes to the track

What you are doing is very interesting work. You are the first person I've heard of who is working on the Super Stealths. If you don't mind, what kind of flows did you get out of the box?

[cdr]

just got some super stealth heads ,been workin on one intake port using my flow bench,so far 320 cfm @.550 with 4.375 bore,im running 4.310 bore & it drops flow to308cfm,but im just starting,we will see when it goes to the track

What you are doing is very interesting work. You are the first person I've heard of who is working on the Super Stealths. If you don't mind, what kind of flows did you get out of the box?

I dont have all the #s here at the house ,but with clay around port @ .500 267 & then backwards

[cdr]

my smaller bore is an issue ,was wanting to use my orig 383 & stroke it 496 ,but i think i might get a 400 block & go that route.also my tunnel ram kills the flow down to 270,did a little work on intake & got 284 but im gonna have to weld up intake in some places to get the correct port taper its smaller at the plenum opening than at the head i will keep ya'll up to date on my progress,but it will take awhile to get some more data,i want 340 cfm @.650 through the intake

[cdr]

also got about an hour time in the head & 1.5 in the intake,700 hp 906 iron heads,wow that makes me feel like I'm not a very good head porter, that's about 339 cfm, would love to see that kind of work,i like to learn i know i know top secret

[cdr]

been a while,been pretty ill,but the weather has cooled of some & finally got my flow bench & heads to the house,so i got some #s together so far,
these are the 440 super stealth & this is for a street motor,my testing cyl adapter is 4.250 bore diameter, i will machine it to 4.4 when i can get to it.

otb .200 140              short side work,& raise port window to max wedge      .200 160
    .300 202              2.14 valve,30 deg back cut,NO SEAT work done yet    .300 220
    .400 242                                                                                       .400 260
    .500 256                                                                                       .500 287
    .600 267                                                                                       .600 307
    .700 267                                                                                       .700 323
                                                                                                       .800 334

[cdr]

been a while,been pretty ill,but the weather has cooled of some & finally got my flow bench & heads to the house,so i got some #s together so far,
these are the 440 super stealth & this is for a street motor,my testing cyl adapter is 4.250 bore diameter, i will machine it to 4.4 when i can get to it.

otb .200 140              short side work,& raise port window to max wedge      .200 160
    .300 202              2.14 valve,30 deg back cut,NO SEAT work done yet    .300 220
    .400 242                                                                                       .400 260
    .500 256                                                                                       .500 287
    .600 267                                                                                       .600 307
    .700 267                                                                                       .700 323
                                                                                                       .800 334

OK opened the seat up a little & did a little combustion chamber work,i am stopping here cause i dont need more flow,this is a street engine build,@ .700 they flow enough to make 688 hp,my cam will be  .650 lift. these heads really want a bigger valve but to do that the seats would have to be changed,flowing the head with no valve they flow 360 not saying they would flow that # with a bigger valve but the would definitely pick up some.

.200 164
.300 217
.400 264
.500 290
.600 314
.700 335
.800 345

[Budnicks]

been a while,been pretty ill,but the weather has cooled of some & finally got my flow bench & heads to the house,so i got some #s together so far,
these are the 440 super stealth & this is for a street motor,my testing cyl adapter is 4.250 bore diameter, i will machine it to 4.4 when i can get to it.

otb .200 140              short side work,& raise port window to max wedge      .200 160
    .300 202              2.14 valve,30 deg back cut,NO SEAT work done yet    .300 220
    .400 242                                                                                       .400 260
    .500 256                                                                                       .500 287
    .600 267                                                                                       .600 307
    .700 267                                                                                       .700 323
                                                                                                       .800 334

Great work on those heads,  OTB they don't look to good do they ??, I would think anyone who buys the Super Stealth should/would be porting them anyway lets hope... But I've seen many posts where people use them, in an out of the box port configuration , I'm not sure why, but they will.... 

[500Jon]

Hi DC Guys and Gals.
Always like a head topic/discussion.
My ambition was always to run a NINE with a street car and 906 heads/440, pump gas, non stroker/nos etc.
(Best was 10.40 in my 68 backhalfed Dart.)
Now want to run a stock appearing 69 Charger into the 10's!
More to the point, my Moparmate is building an A990 clone but wants to run a max-wedge set-up.
Here-in lies the problem, he bought a set of iron MW heads off EbayUS and they never showed!
Seems the seller was a known scammer by ebay
As a knee jerk reaction he then buys a pair of 440-1's that are both cracked from end2end!!!
Double disaster methinks!!!
I have a set of Eddy'RPMs that we are contemplating opening up to MW size,
but I think the new Super Stealth is the way to go?
What do you most knowledgeable guys think on this matter???

Old thread revitalised by unknown Limey yeehaa

Oh yes in case you think I'm a flake, I have here in sunny England a set of Oval-port iron B\B heads from the famous Rye based Weslake Engineering UK.
I believe that there were two sets made one set in the Mopar museum USA, a bizarre closed chamber design and my set which is conventional open chamber, with heat cross-over.
I also have the Mule/Dyno motor that was used for testing which is a work of art also!

Best wishes 500Jon

[Bob T]

Back to the RPM' for a moment, I have stock iron heads on a 68 HP2 440 with 2" Headers by Doug ( similar fit to TTI so I'm told ) will the RPMs fit my headers without any problems? Looking towards doing an upgrade
Thanks

[RECHRGD]

I've got the Mopar '452' aluminum heads.  Their made by Ebrock and are the same as the RPM's except that they have straight plugs.  No header problems with my 1 7/8" Hookers.

[Ghoste]

They are a different combustion chamber too are they not?

[RECHRGD]

From what I was told, the only difference was the plug orientation.

[Ghoste]

Oh okay, for some reason I thought they were an open chamber.

[heyoldguy]

Hi DC Guys and Gals.
Always like a head topic/discussion.
My ambition was always to run a NINE with a street car and 906 heads/440, pump gas, non stroker/nos etc.
(Best was 10.40 in my 68 backhalfed Dart.)
Now want to run a stock appearing 69 Charger into the 10's!
More to the point, my Moparmate is building an A990 clone but wants to run a max-wedge set-up.
Here-in lies the problem, he bought a set of iron MW heads off EbayUS and they never showed!
Seems the seller was a known scammer by ebay
As a knee jerk reaction he then buys a pair of 440-1's that are both cracked from end2end!!!
Double disaster methinks!!!
I have a set of Eddy'RPMs that we are contemplating opening up to MW size,
but I think the new Super Stealth is the way to go?
What do you most knowledgeable guys think on this matter???

Old thread revitalised by unknown Limey yeehaa

Oh yes in case you think I'm a flake, I have here in sunny England a set of Oval-port iron B\B heads from the famous Rye based Weslake Engineering UK.
I believe that there were two sets made one set in the Mopar museum USA, a bizarre closed chamber design and my set which is conventional open chamber, with heat cross-over.
I also have the Mule/Dyno motor that was used for testing which is a work of art also!

Best wishes 500Jon

Some Super Stealth information.

http://forums.moparmusclemagazine.com/70/9425340/general-mopar-technical-discussion/440-source-super-stealth-ootb-and-ported-head-flow/

[el dub]

Here is some info that may help. Just google aluminum vs cast iron heads. I tried to copy and paste but too many letters. Here is some from Hughes Engines.

There are several types or levels of heads available and there is a lot of confusion over what is what. This confusion is in part created by the terms "bolt-on" and "stock replacement". They are used indiscriminately and interchangeably, and no one has stepped forward to either clarify or classify them. We will try!

A "stock replacement" head is one that has the stock location of the ports and rocker arms and these original components will along with the rocker covers and other odd brackets will attach like they did on the original iron heads. No spacers, oil lines or other adapters are required.

"Bolt-on" can generally be interpreted, with cylinder heads, to mean that they will have head bolt holes located in the same "location" as the stock ones. So they will "bolt-on" with the correct bolts, which may or may not be the same as stock, usually not. It does not mean that they are a "stock replacement" head and you should not expect any OEM pieces to fit. This "bolt-on" type head will be a race type head and have the ports raised from the original location and require special intake manifolds or spacers and Special exhaust components, and many times special rocker arms and maybe even external oil lines.

Hope it helps.

[500Jon]

Thanx Guys,
I also assume that 'stock appearing' classes do not allow stock appearing ali heads?
We all know that the 906 and the 452 are the best iron options, but what about stroker motors?
Whats the biggest cubes you can run with well ported iron heads??
Would I be able to use a factory experimental 'W2' style iron head on my 'SA Charger'

Back to 'best ali' then, with 493 cubes, dished pistons for pump-gas and looking for 10-1 comp methinks!
The A990 clone will have an 'Indy' MW crossram, thats why Moparmate went original iron MW route.
Then thought the Indy 440-1's would be fine as they actually look fairly stock on the exterior.
The Eddy's and Mopar452's are clumsy at best in appearance and cannot be hidden by any amounut of panit LoL! :s
So that leaves the new Indy EZ range,Victors, maybe Brodix or cheap as chips Super Stealth.
Mixed reports on the 'SS' heads and I've not seen a set yet to say either way?
I have seen max-wedged Indy SR's and early Stealths and a MopMuscle article on MW Eddy's.
It appears that the SS heads need lots of TLC before use and thats steering us that way.
Or just hog out the RPM's to MW and say "whats it matter" either way???

Thanx for your time 500jon 'the LiMeY'

[heyoldguy]

Thanx Guys,
I also assume that 'stock appearing' classes do not allow stock appearing ali heads?
We all know that the 906 and the 452 are the best iron options, but what about storker motors?
Whats the biggest cubes you can run with well ported iron heads??
Would I be able to use a factory experimental 'W2' style iron head on my 'SA Charger'

Back to 'best ali' then, with 493 cubes, dished pistons for pump-gas and looking for 10-1 comp methinks!
The A990 clone will have an 'Indy' MW crossram, thats why Moparmate went original iron MW route.
Then thought the Indy 440-1's would be fine as they actually look fairly stock on the exterior.
The Eddy's and Mopar452's are clumsy at best in appearance and cannot be hidden by any amounut of panit LoL! :s
So that leaves the new Indy EZ range,Victors, maybe Brodix or cheap as chips Super Stealth.
Mixed reports on the 'SS' heads and I've not seen a set yet to say either way?
I have seen max-wedged Indy SR's and early Stealths and a MopMuscle article on MW Eddy's.
It appears that the SS heads need lots of TLC before use and thats steering us that way.
Or just hog out the RPM's to MW and say "whats it matter" either way???

Thanx for your time 500jon 'the LiMeY'

This may be a poor example of what can be done with 906 heads on a 500ci stroker engine, but it is at least, one example.

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,84922.0.html

[500Jon]

Heyoldguy,
Thanx for the reply!
I just love a 906 iron head motor.
My moparmate bought Tom Nelson's 2003 470 cube engine challenge motor.
It had 572-13 indys and was also based on an ex-Landy 1971 400 block.
Unfortunately disqualified, but was good for 720horses.
We always thought that was only poss due to the quality of the heads!
The best set of 906's I ever saw were done by Rob Lowring (ICE-autos)UK.
Raised port by 1/2" and the floors resined to keep the standard port opening.
On a 446 ali-rod motor with 12 to 1 comp it made around 600horses.
Did run nines in a Dart, but we only managed 10.40 in our 2700lb Dart.

Was always told that 906 intake port is more than good enough.
Its the exhaust port that needs all the work???

Whats the best manifold for all out power on a 906???

Thanx 500jon

[heyoldguy]

The limited testing we have done would seem to indicate the best intake would be dual dominators on a tunnel ram. On the 500 with our ported 906 heads we used the Indy 3X with some epoxy to narrow the runners in the manifold. Next time we'll use the Edelbrock Super Victor in standard port size and port it to the dimensions we want.

When we ran the same 906 heads and the Indy 400-2 intake on a 451 it made 694 HP with 9.7:1 compression, so well ported 906 heads are capable of some nice horsepower.

Yes the exhaust ports on the 906 require some work to flow with the intakes. We destroyed a lot of 906 heads learning what to do with the exhausts and intakes.

Years before he died my Dad told me there were three secrets to making horsepower. The first two secrets were cylinder heads, but third and most important......cylinder heads!

[Budnicks]

The limited testing we have done would seem to indicate the best intake would be dual dominators on a tunnel ram. On the 500 with our ported 906 heads we used the Indy 3X with some epoxy to narrow the runners in the manifold. Next time we'll use the Edelbrock Super Victor in standard port size and port it to the dimensions we want.

When we ran the same 906 heads and the Indy 400-2 intake on a 451 it made 694 HP with 9.7:1 compression, so well ported 906 heads are capable of some nice horsepower.

Yes the exhaust ports on the 906 require some work to flow with the intakes. We destroyed a lot of 906 heads learning what to do with the exhausts and intakes.

Years before he died my Dad told me there were three secrets to making horsepower. The first two secrets were cylinder heads, but third and most important......cylinder heads!

Thanks for sharing... I love your dads quote, I use it often, on a couple of forums, but worded slightly different

[Ghoste]

I've never heard that one before but I like it.  I'll keep it in mind from here on.

[Cooter]

I've spent countless hours and dollars figuring out the forth secret to making horsepower.....

Lots of Nitrous. That one I'm willing to give away, but I'm holding the other three.

[Ghoste]

Yes, spray and pray works well too.

[500Jon]

Hi Guys,

Yep the old Nitrous has been used alot here in the UK over the years too.
Mainly on cars that are near their full potential and need 100 more horses to get that magic number!
I should have used it on my Dart back in the day for running the magical NINE!!!
Since then there has been many versions of ALI-Bigblock heads that have lessened the NOS route.
It never seems to amase me how B-bodies get stuck at 11.0 and A-bods at 10.0.
Big cubes and even bigger ports are the new way now.
Some of us like the old ways too, iron head atop an iron engine.
For us Limeys, Koffel was the main man when it came to iron.
He must have spent thousands of hours with a die grinder, whittling 452's and 906's!
Most of those heads are cracked and gone now.
I have a 906 Koffel head I use as a guide, along with a cracked Hauser 906 and a cracked ICE raised-port 906 too.

Its seems now that CnC Indy heads atop a 600cube motor is the order of the day, as long as you have $25k.
For me I still like the challenge of running a Mother-Mopar all-iron 440 as fast as poss!
If you got $20K budget then life is sorta easy, if you have no budget its much more fun LOL!

So what is the best ali head for the money?
(For me its a 40 year old iron head, cheap as chips.)
I suppose it all boils down to what you wanna do with it?
Bolt it on outta da box, port it to da max.
Run fast or run home!

500jon aka 'the LiMeY'

[1974dodgecharger]

I heard the same old guy was the secret was the heads.......

[Cooter]

Boost today is the way to go. Be it turbo or supercharged.
Way to easy to go stupid fast with 20 PSI. Just can't bring a knife(NA) to a gun fight (Boosted)anymore.

[1974dodgecharger]

VERY TRUE cooter...alot of the civic these days they dont care if they blow up their engine they put 300 shot nitrous in those things just to claim, "I bet a nissan GTR' then comes, 'then my engine blew up'

figure those little 4 bangers are easily replaced engines for what 500 bucks in a junk yard.

[Cooter]

Hadda import buddy I work with attempt to school me on turbos....
He asked how much I thought lb of boost was equal to my 200 shot.
I replied prolly like 15 psi.
He laughed. Said, I can put 9-12 psi on your motor and have you giddy.
I said really? Yeah, but fir what? $3k?
Said, nope. HX52 turbo on epay for like $600.00...
Thats enough to max out at 30 psi..
For about $1500.00, you could have a nasty 440 on about 15 psi.

[War wagon]

Hadda import buddy I work with attempt to school me on turbos....
He asked how much I thought lb of boost was equal to my 200 shot.
I replied prolly like 15 psi.
He laughed. Said, I can put 9-12 psi on your motor and have you giddy.
I said really? Yeah, but fir what? $3k?
Said, nope. HX52 turbo on epay for like $600.00...
Thats enough to max out at 30 psi..
For about $1500.00, you could have a nasty 440 on about 15 psi.

I know of a couple cars running boosted 440's. One is a 70 dart that runs 9.10@159mph on 15psi using a procharger.
I have a LOW comp. motor in the car ATM and have been toying with the idea of boost myself. Nothing puts you back in the seat like HIGH boost.
I would love to build a stroker with about 7.5:1 comp and slap a 94-98 mm Ball bearing turbo on it running 25+ PSI of boost.... Having been down that road with an import I know better...
The costs involved would be staggering

There is a 67 mustang fastback that runs at my local track ( toronto Motorsports park) that is a pro built tube chassis turbo car.
500+ cu in 2 x 98mm turbos and 30 PSI car runs mid 6's at 200mph+

Just make sure your bearings,rods, rings, and pistons are up to the task if you plan on boosting. Otherwise the fun won't last. Built right they can last for a long time IMHO

[War wagon]

Back on topic lol sorry...
My dad has been running edlebrock RPM's that were ported at Hughes . He has been able to get his 4200lb Belvedere into the 10's using them.
Last summer I made him an offer he couldn't refuse LOL , I would buy him new heads and take his RPM's .
The reason being I would have spent close to the same money for my goals as it cost too upgrade dad.
So I bought my father a set of 440-1 INDY heads fully cnc'd.

We have a good friend running the same heads on a 68 GTX . He has a stock READ STOCK bottom end and runs the indy heads. Runs CONSISTANT 10.2@129mph

Definately not for everyone thou, require special headers

We are hoping to put the Belvedere into the 9's this coming season. It's still a street driven full interior car

[Cooter]

Stock bottom end in the low tens? Camshaft can't be stock. He might have stock block crank and rods.
Hell I'm running 6.80's (8th mile) with a junk stroker with under .600 lift cam.

[War wagon]

Stock bottom end in the low tens? Camshaft can't be stock. He might have stock block crank and rods.
Hell I'm running 6.80's (8th mile) with a junk stroker with under .600 lift cam.

Yes my bad the cam is FAR from stock and over 600lift in that car. But the rest of the components are stock and the pistons are .30 over.
Car is consistently running 6.4x in the 1/8th
He had a 572 aluminum world block but grenaded it. This was a low buck replacement built to have fun with while a new monster is assembled. Basically swapped the heads and cam from big motor to a OE short block . 3 summers later it's still running and his new monster motor is almost done.
I should say he has owned and raced the car for 30+ years and knows his stuff
4:56 gears, trans brake, low gear set in trans etc etc

[don duick]

I have 2 chargers both have 440 motors I bought a set of 440 source and a set of eddys 84 cc. the chambers, ports, valves springs, locks and retainers were the same. the  440 source heads had cleaner looking ports. the eddys had 2 rough inlet ports on both heads but was easy to clean up. the 440 source have straight plugs, no header problems. the eddys have angle plugs if using headers then you have to modify number one primary pipe to clear the plug on number 6. easy to do if you are not too fussy on appearance. Both heads have cheap looking locks and retainers. I sent both sets of heads to the machine shop to have them checked ie pressure tested and cc'd. Also had new springs locks and retainers {comp cams} installed. The edelbrocks had 2 leaking exhaust vales on one head only. The seats were recut and the valves were refaced. both sets had less than 84 cc chambers cannot remember numbers but was not much. The machinist says the 440 source was the  better one. I might have got a bad casting on my eddys one of them had a jaggered looking inlet port which would not clean up but not an issue as it sealed ok. The 440 souce heads I bought were made in 2012 the earlier ones were not as good. I have run both engines for about 2000 miles so far.{no racing} both have been ok. Both engines were built to same specs and no difference in performance between them. In summary does not really matter which one you get. up to you if you want to support an American product or save a buck. Also the eddys are available in 2 size chambers 84 and 88 the 84 have a closed chamber which gives you quench which is important. google "quench" interesting read.