How should the brake pad material be rivited to shoe?

[ChargersETC..ETC..]

How should the brake pad be rivited to the brake shoe?

I notice my old shoes and new Autozone 336 11x3 front brake shoes are rivited in diffrent positions! I put the shoes on and finally got the drum to fit on but there seems to be some drag to the drum and I thought there wasn't supposed to be much drag until slack adjusters are set up and right now there totally backed off and still the drum drags wheel turned by hand!

You don't suppose with my luck the factory worker riveted the pad on too low on the shoe do you?There are several rivit holes left so if the arch of the pad was right it would seem like it is possiable to me.
All I know is it's diffrent then my old brake shoes so it's worth investegating before putting everything back together and driveing car.Any help would be appreciated .Thanks

[ChargersETC..ETC..]

The shoe I am refering to is the front shoe closest to the headlights etc...the back shoe seems fine to me. I know primary or secondary shoe terms should be used I just don't want to use the wrong term it's probley the secondary shoe since threres less brake pad material.

[bobs66440]

The shoe I am refering to is the front shoe closest to the headlights etc...the back shoe seems fine to me. I know primary or secondary shoe terms should be used I just don't want to use the wrong term it's probley the secondary shoe since threres less brake pad material.

It's likely a design change somewhere along the way. I'm not sure what effect the position change would have. If the store has another set in stock I would compare them. Or contact the manufacturer directly.

As far as the drag is concerned, remember that you have more material now, so the adjusters won't be adjusted as far out. Also, make sure the shoes are completely retracted against the stops and centered in the backing plate.

[ChargersETC..ETC..]

Well maybee these are ok to run then?
The shoes are supposed to be a special order item I ordered the set I have online but next time I'm near a Autozone I might see if they have any in stock to compare with.The Mfg. is Outsourced to Mexico .Maybee I need to replace the adjuster  and swtch it to a shorter gear or just wear of some of the brake pad material then readjust .I'm supprised it grabs so much since my drums are used if the drums were new I dought they would fit something doesn't seem right.The drum still turns ok it's just you can feel it grabbing the pads in the totally retracted position.The only other thing i can think of is to replace the bottom spring which I just did with a newer style from a kit but even if the spring was changed it can't go in more the the shortest that the adjuster gear retracts.As far as I know the shoes are on the correct sides.I'll search for some pics of brake shoes and set ups to see if it looks correct.

[ChargersETC..ETC..]

I don't know anybody else's brake pads  installed on the shoes this way? Any brand of brake shoe doesn't matter does it look right or wrong to work?  :shruggy:Thanks

[bobs66440]

The primary shoe is the short one and should be on the front as you have it. I've looked at other setups and it seems that the short linings are centered on the shoes like your old ones. Your guess is as good as mine as to whether it will work ok or not...

[ChargersETC..ETC..]

Thanks for the advice.

I counted the rows of rivits yesterday and was Not! happy. The old shoe has 5 rows of rivits on the secondary shoe the same as the new brake shoe so it's a good match.The New Autozone Duralast Part # 336 11x3 front Primary brake shoe ONLY! has 4 rows of rivits and the brake pad is rivited as low as possiable to the primary brake shoe. Now are they even putting the correct brake pads on the Primary brake shoe or Not!
The old pad has holes drilled for 5 rows of rivits. NEW pad Only has holes drilled for 4 rows of rivits. I prefer 5 Rows of rivits. Two rows at the bottom and one row in the center it seems like common sence saftey to me. Are they so cheap they eliminated one row of rivits (or 2 individual rivits) in order to save on mfg. costs? I don't like this New Primary brake shoe at all is it even safe to use or is it a major factory error like something that should be recalled ? I'll write customer service and probley get ignored like usual or only get the most basic of reply like or records indicate the shoes fit your vehicle.They hate me because I told them that their duralast shoes 333 were listed wrong on website and were not 12x2 1/2 inches I think that size would fit a 1950's Chrysler Imperial or something anyway what they were actullay selling was 10x2 1/2 front brake shoes I needed .
Safe or unsafe how are new Primary brake shoes rivited now?

[ChargersETC..ETC..]

I sent a email with a picture of old and new Primary Brake Shoe to:
CJ Chargualaf
Regional Admin
Seattle # 8147

phone 253 815-1254
Email Crystal.Chargualaf@Autozone.com

because that's who wrote me before after I used the main Autozone Customer Service Website to report their mislisted brake shoes part duralast 333 are Not! 12x2 1/2 inches
a lot of good that did.

I wrote the subject as Saftey Concern! please contact mfg and reply ASAP.I wait eagerly to hear a reply .

[66FBCharger]

Why don't you buy your parts from someplace like NAPA? I don't care for the stuff that these chain auto parts sell. NAPA parts are what a lot of professional repair shops use so their quality is better. I'm not criticizing, I'm just wondering why you are using AutoZone.

[ChargersETC..ETC..]

Autozone was the cheapest I could find for a full set 11x3 front brake shoes. About $23.99
That seemed good enough for a car I may not drive on the road for awhile just around the back forty and I could swap the cheap brake shoes to another car I have when I upgrade to the best brakes later when I have a daily driver type Charger. I like Napa better but everythng is always more expensive and just about every single part I ever purchase has to be ordered and always takes longer then expected to arrive and I didn't want to wait forever.
I think I should get some brake shoes just about anywhere else and just return these 11x3 brake shoes to Autozone but... here is the problem I have with that what if there mass produceing the brake shoes wrong or useing inferor methoods less rivets etc...  and noone ever asked the company about it or noticed ? What if someone has a wreck ?Actually I rember reading about a few chargers wrecked recently I wonder what brake shoes they used? 
I think I am still looking for a good brake shoe supplier .I just want to know why they put the linings on this way any advantage or disadvantage is that what we have to expect from manufacturers in the future less rivets and lineings applied much lower to the shoes?
Did anyone actually install any 11x3 Autozone front brake shoes recently or did they just change the shoes? So far the 11x3 is the only diffreance I've notice but now I'll have to double check the 10x 2 1/2 to see if there any diffrent but I think there ok old style.

[ChargersETC..ETC..]

Well I waited all day absoultely no reply from Autozone whatsoever and emailed a duralast company email that I got off their website also. The subject of my emails were primary brake shoe safety concern question or something like that so I thought that would get their attention but no go.So I wait.
I checked the rear brake shoes I bought #333 10x2 1/2 and #338 11x 2 1/2 no rivets to count because the brakes are bonded or glued on .I didn't compare them to my old brake shoes yet.

[bobs66440]

 

[ChargersETC..ETC..]

No reply from A Zone at all. So I emailed their investor relations a pic and asked for help with customer service. A pictures worth a thousand words vs me trying to call someone and explain to them thats a last resort for me.

I checked out Napa's 11x3 Front Brake Shoes
Part TS 336B Price $35.09 
        Core Charge $ 6.50

They ONLY! list one choice for 11x3 =Bonded Brakes

I would have guessed Napa would have stocked riveted or one of everything bonded and riveted but thats it for selection I guess?
As for the Napa picture I can't tell for sure what position the lining is applied compared to A zone or anyone else. It kind of looks like the linings applied low on the shoe but with a little more lining up top then a zone? I don't know a lot of brake pics on internet are terriable and don't help much if they only show a certain angle.

A zone brakes are riveted front and bonded rear for 10 and 11 inch chrysler products.

[ChargerST]

I ordered new brake shoes for my 11" rear drums from rockauto.com and they were riveted and not too short like yours. Brand was Wagner but I just checked and they don't have them anymore. Would go for Bendix instead.

[charger Downunder]

Cant you just get your original ones re bonded that's what we do in Australia you must have companies that
would do the same.

[Chryco Psycho]

did you istall new springs so the shoes retract fully , new springs are cheap & should always be used when changing shoes

[ChargersETC..ETC..]

Thanks for the tip but...
Yes I installed new springs from a 11x3 Spring kit from Orieley Auto . That spring kit seemed like a ok deal aprox $ 6-8 dollars I think part# H7116 was the number for the spring and nail hardware kit. Looks like theres extra springs and nails leftover depending on car application or something. New kit did not have the correct bottom springs so I reused my old springs.Note -the blue spring in my picture is wrong not sure where they go or if they fit another car application or what . I read another post here on Dodge charger.com that the 11x3 bottom front brake spring is somewhat hard to find. If all I need new is new stiffer bottom brake return spriings I'll be a lot happier but I still would like to know why was Only the Primary brake shoe lined using less rivets and riveted in a totally different position on the brake shoes then my old shoes?
I may have to get my old brake shoes relined somewhere but think I can still find the old style riveted shoes somewhere that are done the old factory way because if the new factory methood is so great why won't the company I bought my brake shoes ever reply and tell me so.
Are all the company's starting to discontinue and or change the way they do their riveted brake shoes?Are properly riveted brake shoes being replaced with improperly lined imported brake shoes?
It seems like bonded brake shoes are taking over.
If anyone or everyone wants to email customer service at Autozone that would be great and I'd sure appreciate it because I've sent 3 different emails with pictures and got no reply this is my 3rd day of waiting for any reply whatsoever. I'll wait a little longer then I guess I'll have to phone them and have a pleasant conversation.

[ChargersETC..ETC..]

I finally got a reply email from -Cj Chargualaf reginal admin Autozone reguarding my brake question. 

Good Morning Mr-

This is the official responce from our vendor:
" The Az336 brake shoe that Autozone sells ,matches th oe configuration that came on the original 1969 dodge charger.Fmsi {friction material standards institute} is friction material industry organization that collects ,records,and catologs disc pads and brake shoes and records their steel dimensions,lining dimensions,etc. It also records how many rivets came in the oe part and they are showing 36{ 10 in each secondary and 8 in each primary}.

Looking at the photos sent by MR we believe his brake shoes were remanufactured many years ago using a piece of steel with slightly diffrent rivet hole pattern.
The rivet hole pattern variation caused the manufacturer to use a diffrent piece of lining that was slightly longer and required extra rivets for proper assembly.

Either way both versions of the 336 brake shoes are 100% safe to put on the 1969 dodge charger"

Please let us know if you have any further concerns.
Thank You

Autozone name and rank phone # info same as posted earlier

[ChargersETC..ETC..]

I haven't replied to AZone yet.To be fair I have about 3-4 days since thats how long I had to wait for a reply.

I don't know but to me both new and old brake shoe cores look about the same if not the exact same to me?

Does anyone have any NEW OLD STOCK 11x3 Front CHRYSLER or ORIGINAL CHRYSLER Factory INSTALLED PRIMARY BRAKE SHOES to compare or SHOW EVERYONE the correct placement of the lining on the shoe and how many rivets were used 10 or Only8?

I think I prefer the 10 Rivets so maybee I'll have my old brake shoe cores relined that way later and get by with using the 8 rivet style unless someone can shed some more light on their experince using either style.

If I have to I may start to pull the front drums off every 11x3 front brake equipped chrysler product I own in a desperate attempt compare the shoes and count rivets etc... and if I do so I better see a lot of 8 rivet shoes done in order to convience me thats the way it should be because in my experiance 9 times out of 10 the old part is the most correct when comparing old and just purchased brand new parts .

In the end I just want to know what was correct from the factory and which brake shoe everyone else uses 8 or 10 rivet front primary brake shoes?
Thanks

[ChargersETC..ETC..]

8 or 10 Rivets ?
Which is correct for 11x3 Front Primary Brake Shoes 8 or 10 Rivets?

I have no idea whats correct? see my post in the brake wheel section
if you have NEW OLD STOCK part please count the rivets or post a picture if possible
Thank You

[ChargersETC..ETC..]

The linings seem to be the same length to me only diffrence seems to be lack of drilling 2 holes and adding 2 rivets to new part and riveting it higher on the brake shoe.
The Duralast brake factory was never mentioned specificly in reply email

Don't know what's rght or wrong or if both parts are actually just as safe to use and fit as well as one or the other.That's why I am asking the "Real Experts" here