Strange Roofing Shingle Damage, Or Is It?

[Old Moparz]

So I finally get around to tearing off my roof to replace it, & I get rain, rain, & more rain. Murphy's Law is at it again.  

Anyway, I've done some roofing in the past, maybe 15 roofs total including tear offs & new, & noticed something I have not seen before. I thought I'd ask this question here because I know there are a few builders on the site to see if it's a somewhat normal condition, or whether it's something that may be an issue that I need to know about before I start installing the new shingles.

The house was built in 1987 & I've been here since 1989 so I'm sure it's the original 24 year old shingles. The pitch is 12:12, the shingles are a light tan/cedar colored, architectural style, but I have no way of knowing what brand. Aside from the shingles being dry, brittle, cracked in some areas, they have a strange tear, or hole, that is directly above the roofing nail head. (See attached sketch) It looks as though the nails cut slots into the shingle as if the shingle was pulled downward from it's original position.

The shingles were nailed down with 4 nails each & the nails didn't appear to have moved. The adhesive strip didn't appear to have failed. Actually, the adhesive area held tighter than the brittle shingles when & pried them up. My guess is that a combination of factors may have caused this. The weight of the shingle, the steep pitch, & the heat from direct sunlight softening the shingle.

Am I right in this assumption, or is it some kind of defect? Can I expect it to happen again with the new shingles? I know the shingles are at, or beyond the life expectancy, but I never saw this before & curious.

By the way, how many of you can say that your wife & daughter "ASKED TO HELP CLEAN UP YOUR MESS"    ??!!!!  

Thanks for any input.  

[resq302]

Bob, if the shingle would have "ripped" wouldn't the nail have been at the top so as the shingle sliding down?  Kinda wondering if the manufacturer had elongated slots to maybe adjust the shingle in case it was installed crooked so you could adjust it before nailing it down all the way?  I know when I built my shed, the shingles I got did not have any holes in them for the nail placement.

[RallyeMike]

I think your shingles have just migrated downhill due to weight and expansion/contraction. That is pretty steep roof for asphalt shingles (I'm assuming your sketch is showing the nail position in the slot wrong).

24 years and they are still up there.... I would not call that failure.  If you are worried about it, you could over-nail it.

If your sketch is right, I would call Ripley's Believe it Or Not.

[bobs66440]

If the rips are going up from the nail then that means the shingles were traveling UP from their original position (or the roof with the nails was traveling  DOWN and the shingles stayed still, which is unlikely). Though I've never heard of it or even know if it is possible, it seems that maybe the shingles shrunk and retracted up (while the nails stayed) and caused the tears.

[MoparManJim]

My late granddad house has shingles like that, they had slots in them, they was a black grayish color like. His house was built back in around 1950's I think, fell in around 1996 I think it was.

[Old Moparz]

Yes, I have the nails shown in the wrong spot, so there is no need to call Ripley.   

I ended up showing the nail where it was supposed to be in relation to the slot that was torn for whatever reason. There is a DIY forum for home improvements, & someone there said that for a steep pitch it should have 6 nails, not 4. I have to look at the shingles I ripped off, but he said there is a chance that they were nailed too high on the upper half as well.

Well, it's time to get back on the roof.

[NHCharger]

Yes, I have the nails shown in the wrong spot, so there is no need to call Ripley.  

OK, I spent 10 minutes looking at your drawing wondering how the hell that could happen before reading the replies.
The only thing I can think of is the expansion and contraction over the last 20+ years caused the shingles to move, and with the 12/12 pitch they moved down.
Are the shingles metric or standard? If metric they're probably IKO. A lot of the "real" lumber yards around here are dropping them because of continuing problems with them.

[RallyeMike]

I guess my suggestion to over-nail the new shingles should be changed to "put the correct number of nails in them"!

If I ever build a 12-12 roof with asphalt shingles I'm sure I won't remember this.

[Old Moparz]

Yes, I have the nails shown in the wrong spot, so there is no need to call Ripley.  

OK, I spent 10 minutes looking at your drawing wondering how the hell that could happen before reading the replies.
The only thing I can think of is the expansion and contraction over the last 20+ years caused the shingles to move, and with the 12/12 pitch they moved down.
Are the shingles metric or standard? If metric they're probably IKO. A lot of the "real" lumber yards around here are dropping them because of continuing problems with them.

Maybe this sounds like a dumb question, but how do you determine the shingle being metric or standard?  

The new shingles I'm putting on are IKO. I hope the roofing & siding supplier I bought them from wasn't just unloading them on me.  

I tried to get the same Owens/Corning that they sold me for the garage, but they said they didn't have any more. They also said that the Duration line is changing, going up $5/sq in price & they don't know when the new ones will be in. I couldn't wait so I got the closest match they had, the IKO Cambridge. It has the same warranty, a limited lifetime, but I know how "limited lifetime" works with anything.

I guess my suggestion to over-nail the new shingles should be changed to "put the correct number of nails in them"!

If I ever build a 12-12 roof with asphalt shingles I'm sure I won't remember this.

Don't worry, I'll remember & send you a PM. 

[PocketThunder]

Did you look at having a steel roof put on?

[Chryco Psycho]

the IKO plant is about 5 miles from where I used to live in Calgary
not that anyone cares LOL

[RallyeMike]

I tried to get the same Owens/Corning that they sold me for the garage, but they said they didn't have any more. They also said that the Duration line is changing, going up $5/sq in price & they don't know when the new ones will be in. I couldn't wait so I got the closest match they had, the IKO Cambridge. It has the same warranty, a limited lifetime, but I know how "limited lifetime" works with anything.

For what its worth (nothing)........  I just had my whole roof done with the IKO Cambridge in September. It appeared to me that the warranty was standard for the industry products. The roofers seemed like a good, efficient company and they told me that they thought the IKO product was of good quality - "otherwise we wouldnt use it".

Of course, my pitch is only 4:12, so your's will probabaly just slide off onto the lawn next summer.....

[NHCharger]

Maybe this sounds like a dumb question, but how do you determine the shingle being metric or standard?  

Standard shingles are 3' or 36", metric are 1 meter or 39-1/2". I used IKO's on my house which I built in 99. I used the Cambridge on the front, and the back side which  no one sees I used the standard 3 tab. That saves some money and if you need to cut a vent in in the future the 3 tabs are a lot easier to work with. I've noticed no problem with the Cambridge shingles on the front but the 3 tabs on the back are starting to curl.

[bajaherbie]

around here (oklahoma) the 3 tabs are 20 or 25 year and the two layer laminated "heritage" shingles are 30 year... even some 50 year shingles on the market. we recently had a bad hailstorm and my insurance just paid me enough $$$ to have my house re-roofed (57  squares) and pocket $1500.00

[Old Moparz]

Did you look at having a steel roof put on?

I researched a little & liked it, but knowing they are pricey I never bothered getting a quote. I priced the materials to do one myself & before tax it was $3500. Not the standard metal roof, one called Decra that looks like a shingle.

http://www.decra.com/all-products/shake-xd

I came very close to getting it, but decided that since I never did one before, I didn't want to end up over my head & not get it done. They look nice though.

[Old Moparz]

the IKO plant is about 5 miles from where I used to live in Calgary
not that anyone cares LOL

Now if I had known that I'd have asked you to pick mine up at the plant so you could drop them off on the way to Panama. 

[Old Moparz]

Maybe this sounds like a dumb question, but how do you determine the shingle being metric or standard?  

Standard shingles are 3' or 36", metric are 1 meter or 39-1/2". I used IKO's on my house which I built in 99. I used the Cambridge on the front, and the back side which  no one sees I used the standard 3 tab. That saves some money and if you need to cut a vent in in the future the 3 tabs are a lot easier to work with. I've noticed no problem with the Cambridge shingles on the front but the 3 tabs on the back are starting to curl.

I'm curious so I'll measure the ones I tore off tomorrow to see if they're metric. 

The 3 tabs are A LOT easier to work with. Just cutting them with a utility knife is so simple compared to the laminated ones. I've been using an old pair of sheet metal shears on them, it's way easier.