Pumpkin swap - Update: Clips are on, new problems

[Dino]

I would like to change my 3.91 gears for 2.94 gears but have never done this before.  Both are 741 cases.  All I have is the diff cover gasket so I need to go shopping.  What else do I need besides gear oil?  

Does anyone happen to have pictures of how to do the swap step by step so I don't mess up?  

I understand I need to raise the car and put the stands under the rails, not the axle.  Pull the wheels and drum brakes, unbold the axle and slide them out 5-10 inches.  Unblot the U joint and the diff housing and pry the botom part to drain the oil, then remove the whole thing.  

So then I clean the edges and put the new gasket in place along with some permatex and bolt the new unit in place. (torque the bols or go by feel?) Then what?  Just push the axles back in and add oil or do I need to do something to the bearings first?  Do I need to adjust the bearing preload at all?

I'm trying to be rpepared for this before I start messing around and end up with a non rolling car in my garage.

[68neverlate]

 

[mpdlawdog]

Ill take the 3.91s if you dont have a use for them  ........I want to do just the opposite!

[flyinlow]

no pictures
2 qts of gear oil 85w-90, suregrip additive,if applicable, dust seals , dial indicator to set up axle end play, torque wrench, wheel bearing grease. service manual

frame rail support or housing is fine, inspect tapered axle bearing and pack with wheel bearing grease before you reassemble. adjustment is on the pass. side for axle end play ,there is a small locking clip, don't lose it. I would replace the inner seals if they are old ,you would need a seal puller. Carrier /axle stud kit available at Mancini if you need it.

I would wait until the season is over and do it during the winter, in case you run into a problem. 

[Chryco Psycho]

Pull the rear wheels & drums , there is a hole in the axle you can reach the 5 nuts holding the retainer plates for the axles , remove those & pull the axles out 3" or more , add grease to the brgs while they are out . remove the driveshaft & the 10 nuts holding in the carrier & use a jack to break the seal , remove the carrier & clean the surface & reverse the proceedure , I use Ultra Black silicone or Right stuff to seal the carrier to the housing , torque the nuts to approx 35 ft lbs

[RallyeMike]

If you are going to be playing with these cars for awhile, get a decent shop manual and use it. It will pay you back many times over. It covers this step by step, and with pictures.

There are a few precautions - like, don't let the axle splines rub on the axle seals if you pull them all the way out - it may create a leaking seal. Be sure to set the axles back in with a good blow from a hammer so that you end up setting your axle load correctly. If the axle isnt seated all the way your axle load will be off. You'll want to use a dial indicator to adjust the axle until you have done a few and get the feel for it.

For the record, you do not have to pull the brakes, so you can save a step there. You have to fiddle with it a bit more to get the axle in and out past the spreader, but it is doable.

[Dino]

You guys rock!  I feel a bit more confident doing this swap now.  I'll have to add a dial indicator to my list, at least now I have an excuse to buy one!   

I do need to do this swap before winter though because I'll be driving it 4 hours away to store it and there's no way I can do that with these gears. 

I'm off to order the service manual, on cd.  Seems a bit easier to print what I need instead of making the actual book all dirty.

[Chryco Psycho]

Duh I missed resetting the end play 

[Dino]

Well I figured I'd start the swap seeing I'd like to drive tomorrow and I wanted the rtv gasket to sit overnight before I fired it up. 

That plan was laid to rest pretty quickly.  First of all I have to do the work on my garage floor and tried jacking up the car by the rear end so I could place some jack stands.  I can't jack it up there because I don't have the room for the jack handle to go up and down.  I'll have to jack it side by side which I don't like doing but what else can I do?  The I noticed the U-joint, both centers are 741's but the one that's on it now has a wider u joint than the one it will be replacing...great...

So I looked at the joint and I can only imagine I need to remove the large nut on both and swap the u joints....I don't even own a socket that large. I can only assume that all I can do is go buy the socket and hope these nuts come off easily?

Right now I'm not to keen of doing the swap, should I just drive to a mechanic and hope they don't charge an arm and a leg?

[RallyeMike]

Swapping the yokes on your pigs is a whole nuther bit of work. It's a bear just to break the pinion bolt loose.

They have conversion U-joints that will connect the big yoke on the shaft to the small yoke on your new pumpkin, if you care to take an easier route. The only thing is that the bigger U-joints are stronger, so you would be losing a little bit there. 

[Dino]

Why I thought this would be easy is a mystery to me...

I will get the socket to at least try and get the pinion bolts off.  Since they both are 741 cases is it safe to assume that the bigger U-joint will fit the other center section or can this be a different spline count? Would you happen to know off hand what the size of the pinion nut is?

I stopped by the local garage this afternoon to see if they could do the work but me thinks the cost will be a little much.  I really need to do this, I'm just afraid to start and get stuck.

[Chryco Psycho]

leave the pinion yolk alone , on a 741 it is shimmed but it needs to be torqued correctly , it is far easier to just use the conversion U joint if the driveshaft & yolk are different sizes

[flyinlow]

+1

[Dino]

Well I did it!  Got the conversion joint, precision part #347, and gathere up the courage to do the swap.  To be honest, the part that was holding me back most was having to jack up the car and be under it, always makes me nervous.  I had 4 jack stands and 2 jacks under the car just to be safe.  I unbolted the 4 small bolts holding the cross shaped joint to the center section to disconnect the driveshaft, removed the wheels and the 5 bols holding the axles in place, slid the axles out a bit and greased the bearings.  Then I loosened the 10 nuts on the center section and gave it a few wacks with a rubber mallet to break the seal.  Had a cup of coffee while it drained!  Removed the nuts, put the jack under the pumpkin and slid it out.  That part was tricky, I had an old plastic basin ready to drop itin which worked out nicely.

Then came the hard part, removing the old gasket which was stuck to the housing.  This took me quite a while with a razor but I got it all off.

I then used ultra black on the housing and made sure to go all the way around the bolts, pressed the new fel pro gasket into it and used ultra black on the other side as well.  Now I had to get the replacement pumpkin into place before the stuff would set up.  After 10 minutes of primordial screams I was aable to slide it into place without hitting the new gasket.  I sude the jack to balance the pumkin and slide it right in.  I tightened the nuts in a star patter but not very tight, waited abit and then tightened it all down.  I do not have a torque wrench so I may have to get one tomorrow unless nice and snug will do.  The ultra black that squeezed out I smoothed out with my finger to get a nice seal, I figured it wouldn't hurt.

I put the axles back in place and put the little bracket back on the passenger side but I have no idea how to set the play on this.  How exactly does this work?  There doesn't seem to be any play on either axle right now.

I also need to remove the old u joint and put the conversion u joint in but don't know how to swap them.  Can someone tell me how to best do this?

Once that is done I have two quarts of castrol 80w-90 to go in and I'm assuming I need to take a short drive and then retighten everything or should it be ok?

Oh and although the previous owner told me I had 3.91's, it was actually 3.55.

Now I have to go find a matching gear for the trans so the speedo isn't off.

[Rolling_Thunder]

 

I have a 3.55 geared pumpkin kicking it in my shed next to a 3.91...      which one to pick       

[Chryco Psycho]

on the passenger side axle where you installed the steel hook there is an adjuster wheel that threads into the retainer plate , with the hook removed you can rotate the adjuster wheel , , you can use a blunt punch a hammer , rotate it counterclockwise until you get some end play then snug it until the play is almost all gone , make sure you tap the axle with a hammer to seat the brg on the opposite side .
On the driveshaft there are clips inside the ears , clean out the dirt & you will see a 3/4 circlip , snap the clip off , I usually use a vice & you can either press the cap out using a small socket on one side & push the cap into a larger socket on the other side or you can set the u joint on top of the vice & use a hammer on the yolk where it si welded to force the cap out of the shaft . Then to install insert the cross of the U joint & use the vice to push the cap in while keeping the cross in the cap so the rollers do not fall out , then do the same with the second cap , you then install the new circlips to retain the caps , you need the circlips on the caps that go into the diff yolk as well to center the U joint in the yolk   

[Dino]

I have a 3.55 geared pumpkin kicking it in my shed next to a 3.91...      which one to pick       

Weren't you going to run a 5 or 6 speed behind that hemi?  The 3.55 would be perfect if I had an overdrive gear, I think you can go pretty high.

[Dino]

on the passenger side axle where you installed the steel hook there is an adjuster wheel that threads into the retainer plate , with the hook removed you can rotate the adjuster wheel , , you can use a blunt punch a hammer , rotate it counterclockwise until you get some end play then snug it until the play is almost all gone , make sure you tap the axle with a hammer to seat the brg on the opposite side .
On the driveshaft there are clips inside the ears , clean out the dirt & you will see a 3/4 circlip , snap the clip off , I usually use a vice & you can either press the cap out using a small socket on one side & push the cap into a larger socket on the other side or you can set the u joint on top of the vice & use a hammer on the yolk where it si welded to force the cap out of the shaft . Then to install insert the cross of the U joint & use the vice to push the cap in while keeping the cross in the cap so the rollers do not fall out , then do the same with the second cap , you then install the new circlips to retain the caps , you need the circlips on the caps that go into the diff yolk as well to center the U joint in the yolk   

Ah setting end play makes sense now! 

I didn't think to remove the driveshaft from the transmission and get the whole thing from under the car but looks like that's what I need to do.  I looked at the box the new cross came in and I see the new clips so I know now what to look for.  Thanks Chryco!

[Chryco Psycho]

Anytime 

[Dino]

Pulled the driveshaft out and removed the 3/4 clips on the insides of the caps.  I don't have a vice big enough to press the cross out so I grabbed a socket just smaller than the caps and one big enough to accommodate the cap on the other side.  Gave it a few good whacks with a big hammer and it moved about 1/16", now it's pretty much there to stay.  I can hit much much harder than I am doing now but I'm afraid to break the actual driveshaft.  How hard can I hit this thing?

[Chryco Psycho]

support the other side with a socket big enough to allow the cap inside & you can hit it hard , penetrating oil will help

[Dino]

support the other side with a socket big enough to allow the cap inside & you can hit it hard , penetrating oil will help

Yep that did it 

Of course I didn't pay attention to where the grease nipple goes and if I need to add grease or not.  Don't have a grease gun so I'll try to stuff some bearing grease in there out of the jar.

[Dino]

Found which way the nipple goes and added grease with a siringe.  I have the clips on the caps in the driveeshaft and placed the clips on the caps that will be strapped down to the rear end, but I can't get the caps to slide into the rearend with the clips on.  When I remove one clip the whole thing slides into place but now I can't get the second clip on, I need help....

[maxwellwedge]

I think a 3.55 is the perfect all around street gear.

[Dino]

I cannot get those 2 c clips on the rear end in place, no matter what I do.  When I slide the u joint in place with one c clip on the cap, the cap does not sit flush with the yoke, it's depressed slightly, the other end the cap protruds a bit and there is not enough room to get the second clip on, seems this joint is simply too long, what gives???  I tried installing both c clips and then put  awoodworkers clamp on the caps to keep everything tight buit no luck, when I try to slide the cross into place, the clips won't fit inside the yoke and one of them will come half off.

I need to get this thing assembled as it is really getting on my nerves.

[Alaskan_TA]

If I understand you correctly, a needle or two may have come out. If one or more needles are out of place and caught at the end of the joint itself, then the cup will not sit on it right.

Pull the cups & take a look inside.

[Dino]

If I understand you correctly, a needle or two may have come out. If one or more needles are out of place and caught at the end of the joint itself, then the cup will not sit on it right.

Pull the cups & take a look inside.

Checked and the caps are fine, rubber seals are where they're supposed to be.  I removed the caps and grabbed the ones from the old u joint but same story.  In fact I tried putting the old joint back on the yoke of the pumpkin I removed and can't egt that one on either.  The c clips are supposed to be on there right?  I'm not supposed to just put the straps and bolts on?

[nvrbdn]

c clips for the shaft and the yolk, the rear end just uses the straps to hold the u joint in place. there is a small piece of metel protruding out that holds the caps in place.

[Dino]

c clips for the shaft and the yolk, the rear end just uses the straps to hold the u joint in place. there is a small piece of metel protruding out that holds the caps in place.

It's a good thing I only wasted half my day trying to get the clips on...my French improved significantly though!   

All kidding aside, I'm glad I can simply use the straps and get this done with.

Thanks!

[maxwellwedge]

You didn't use the C clips?

Did you note what was there before you took it apart?

Get the FSM.

[Dino]

You didn't use the C clips?

Did you note what was there before you took it apart?

Get the FSM.

The old cross had all 4 c clips installed.  I removed it form the driveshaft and installed the conversion cross in the driveshaft.  I placed the new c clips in the caps in the driveshaft.

I then placed the c clips on the caps going in to the pumpkin u joint and couldn't fit it.  Took one c clip off, slid the cross into place and noticed the groove for the second c clip was on the edge of the yoke, there is no way I can get the caps to seat in those half circles with the c clips on.  I pulled the driveshaft away from the rear end, put the caps on the cross withe c clips in place and put a woodworking vice on the caps so it was nice and tight.  I measured both the inside of the u joint yoke and measure from outside edge of one c clip to the other, the latter was slightly larger so it won't go in.

I have not done anything else to it, all I can do is leave the clips off at the carrier end and use the straps and bolts to set it in place.

[Chryco Psycho]

if you leave the c clips off you will have a vibration at minimum , worst case is the cap will come out of the yolk .
pull the caps & make sure all the rollers are in place , if one is laying in the bottom of the cap the cap will not go all the way on & the clips will not fit inside the yolk

[Dino]

I've had the caps off dozens of times, the bearings are all in place and the caps are on the cross as far as they can go, I even took the caps off the old cross to use on the new and it's exactly the same, this thing is not fitting.  The only thing that will make this fit is grind the inside of the u joint but that's not going to work well with it being under the car. 

Also when I have one c clip on the cap and slide the cross into the yoke, the top of the cap is recessed from the outside of the u joint and the opposite cap's top protrudes from the outside of the u joint so it's not center.  This is messed up and I've just about had it with this thing.  I wasted my weekend and will now have to get new parts to reinstall the dang 3.55 gears.  What a waste.  Whoever made the conversion joint needs to buy better calipers.

The onlly way for me to fit this thing is to simply use the straps on the pumpkin side.  I may just do so to at least see how it runs and then park it until I figure out what to do.  I really don't want to go back to 3.55's.

And this was supposed to be the easy project.....

[RallyeMike]

Rule #1. There is no easy project on a 40+ YO Mopar.

I think I remember running into a similar issue once on a non-conversion joint where the new U-joint clips were wider than the thin stock ones. I think I was able to make it work using thinner clips.

To check your fit, assemble the caps on the U-joint, clamp it together tight and measure the distance between the clips. Compare the distance on the yoke and see if this is going to work at all.

As a last result, maybe you have the wrong U-joint?

Good luck.

[charger Downunder]

May be you should post a few pics close up of the problem and what you are working with.
You didnt bent the tail shaft ends in while you were removing it.

[Dino]

I checked the old clips to see if they were thinner but they were not, thinner clips might work but they will likely not seat well and thus won't do the job.  The distance between the u joint arms is slightly shorter than the distance between the outside edges of the clips installed on the cross.

I bought the pumpking on craigslist, I never thought to check if anything was bent.  If I had a way to put something inbetween the arms and slightly bend them out I would, I just don't see what could do so, and then there's the risk of breaking the joint itself.  It wouldn't need much though, I'd say 1/16" would do it.  I tried measuring with the caliper but it's digital and the battery is dead....

I'll get some pics up later.

Mike I forgot about rule #1, I guess I was a little too optimistic.

EDIT:

I tried to capture the issue as best as I could, you can see that one clip is barely on the inside of the u joint while the other is hitting the top side, ie it won't fit in.

You can see on the caliper (worked for about a minute before the battery failed again) that measuring the inside of the u joint is 2.128.  I couldn't capture it with the camera but the measurement from one clip to the other (outsides) is 2.19

That may not seem like a lot but it's enough to not make the dang thing fit!

Any ideas?  I'm desperate.

By the way, IF I can get ths to fit and it turns out these new gears are noisy or otherwise less than perfect I will officially go crazy.   

[RallyeMike]

Those pictures brought back a few memories. I definitely ran into this before and solved it using thinner clips.

I doubt the yoke is bent. It takes a lot to damage these, and you would see the impact to it. You can check it by measuring the distance at the front and rear of the cap. Same = not bent.

Other ideas?

1. Grind 1/32 off each end of the U-joint posts? You will have to clean it well afterward.

2. It wouldn't take much to take 1/32 off each inside face of the yoke, but you'd have to do it carefully. It can be done with a hand grinder. I just resurfaced a slant 6 intake and exhaust flanges to fix warped flange seal by using a pipe saw with an abrasive metal disk. A little hairy, but it worked.

3. Does someone else out there make this conversion joint that you could compare specs on?

After a quick check on #3, I would go with #1. Yes, you will have to take the damn thing out of the drive shaft again, but it's better to modify the cheap, replaceable part than something else.

Sorry you are having a tough time!

[Dino]

Those pictures brought back a few memories. I definitely ran into this before and solved it using thinner clips.

I doubt the yoke is bent. It takes a lot to damage these, and you would see the impact to it. You can check it by measuring the distance at the front and rear of the cap. Same = not bent.

Other ideas?

1. Grind 1/32 off each end of the U-joint posts? You will have to clean it well afterward.

2. It wouldn't take much to take 1/32 off each inside face of the yoke, but you'd have to do it carefully. It can be done with a hand grinder. I just resurfaced a slant 6 intake and exhaust flanges to fix warped flange seal by using a pipe saw with an abrasive metal disk. A little hairy, but it worked.

3. Does someone else out there make this conversion joint that you could compare specs on?

After a quick check on #3, I would go with #1. Yes, you will have to take the damn thing out of the drive shaft again, but it's better to modify the cheap, replaceable part than something else.

Sorry you are having a tough time!

So if I grind a bit off each post the caps should slide on alittle further and thus the clips would go on...the rubber seals would compress a bit more but dang this would probably work!  I don't mind taking the conversion joint out of the driveshaft if it would solve the problem.  I would however mind taking this pumpkin back out to grind the insides of the flanges.  Yes they are equal in measurement front and rear of the cap, the yoke seems to be fine.

I will check first to see if there's a different company making the conversion joint, or if I can find the same one just to compare.  Maybe I had a fluke.

Thanks for your insight Mike, I really appreciate it!  Will keep you posted on progress.

[RallyeMike]

It's only a 32nd of an inch, so it might work. You'll have to check the measurements carefully to make sure you don't end up with interference somewhere else (crossing fingers!)

[Dino]

Since nobody carries another brand of u joint I thought I'd grind down this one a bit t see if it would work.  I ground off about 1/64" on each end and the whole thing slid right into place with the clips on.

I took it for a long drive and everything worked great, except for the speedometer being off.  By the way, should the tach be off as well?  It seems to read more rpm than it's really doing.

When I came home and turned into my driveway I could hear grinding coming from the axle so I checked underneath and everything looks to be ok.  I took it out again and just idled down my sub, it's making a grinding noise at, what I believe to be, each revolution of the driveshaft.  When I turned left to go back, an additional squeeking noise came into play that goes away as soon as you straighten the wheels.  What the heck is all that???  If it wasn't for the noise you wouldn't know something was going on as it drives like butter.  At some speeds it has slight vibration but I'm not sure that wasn't something that wasn't already there.

It doesn't look like anything has shifted at the u joint, can it be the axle preload?  I may have messed up that procedure.

I really love this gear ratio as it makes cruising just perfect so I hope this is something I can fix.

[Dino]

Got the car back on stands, I'm getting pretty quick doing this, and removed the wheels and drums.  Both axles are really tighht, no end play at all so looks like I messed it up.

At this point I can't even get the adjuster nut loose but I'll give it a few whacks again shortly.  I hope this is why it's creaking...

[nvrbdn]

after grinding, it doesnt make the bearings too long, or the cap bottoming out on the center of the u joint does it?

[Dino]

after grinding, it doesnt make the bearings too long, or the cap bottoming out on the center of the u joint does it?

It doesn't look like it, the two rubber seals that sit on the caps are a little more squished but are still in place and the u joint looks to be nicely centered.  I don't know if the problem lies with the u joint, something else or both.  If I have to guess I say it's something else, it sounds like the axles are too tight.  It also started after a good half hour or more of driving, it didn't happen right away.  The axles are really tight, there's absolutely no play on them so I'll see if that changes anything, once I get the adjuster loose that is.  If that doesn't change anything then I'll have to get anoter u joint and hope it fits without modifications.

Right now I have the wheels off and jack stands under the rails right next to the forward leaf spring shackles, would it be too much of a risk to start the car and put it in drive to see where the noise is coming from?

[Back N Black]

If you want to run the car,i suggest you put the stands on the axle. You don't want the rear end bouncing because its not supported.

[Cooter]

I know this is a bad time to be telling you this NOW, but you do know there are different thicknesses of those snap rings right?
most of the newer joints come through with those thick ass rings that usually don't fit too well. I think taking material off the u-joint, coupled with no axle bearing end play is causing your noises. Gotta start there. I'd go with another joint one that hasn't been modded, then run the thinner rings. I've even had to run Ford/Chevy rings on Chrysler joints before to get 'em to fit...You would love the driveshaft in My General Lee. It's half Ford, half Chrysler. The Yoke at the trans is Ford and the shaft is Chrysler. Ford cups on one side and Mopar on the other with Chevy needle bearings.

[RallyeMike]

Speedometer gear only effects the speedometer and odometer. Tach runs off the electrical system and is unaffected by the gear.

I think the U-joint caps are too small to make a grinding noise that you could hear while driving. So it's likely something else.

Axle adjuster too tight = bad. As things warm up, things expand and get even a little tighter (like maybe what 1/2 hour of driving might do). That's why the factory setting has minor play in it. Get the end play right and try again. You can damage the bearings if you have things too tight or loose.

Once that's done, if you still have new grinding noise, I would say it probably the only other things you changed: The gears.

Glad to see you got it together, and .....Cooter thanks for confirming my oft-faulty memory about the clip issue.

[Roth68rt]

It looks like your "C" clamp is keeping the joint from extending out the other side of the yoke.  Try removing the clamp, installing the clip and tapping the other side of the joint till the clip seats and the other side is fully exposed to put the other clip in.  Notice on the driveshaft side the joints stick out slightly, the clamp is keeping the yoke side from doing the same thing.  

Steve

[Dino]

You know I thought about finding thinner clips but the old u joint I have has the exact same thickness clips and since they fit nice and snug into the grooves on the caps, I didn't think to change them.  Again I took very little off the u joint to make it fit, I'm not saying it's impossible but I don't think the u joint is making the noise.

The caps on the yoke side will never stick out, all the c clamp did was keep the caps in place so they wouldn't fall off, there is no extra pressure on them, I just needed something to hold it there so I wouldn't loose the needle rollers.  After grinding down the u joint, when I put the clamp back on I just slightly tightened it, I could still easily rotate the caps with the clamp on.

Since the noise only started after a while I am almost positive the axles are the issue, I may have messed up the bearings.  The adjuster nut is really tight though, I'm afraid to hit it too hard and break one of those tabs off.

I don't think the actual gears are an issue, I've heard damaged gears and this is way different, more like a binding noise as if the axles are too tight.

If I get the end play set up porperly and it's still noisy I will assume the bearings are shot.  If I get new bearings on them and the problem persists then at least I know the axles are no longer an issue, it probably won't hurt to have new bearings anyway.  I like to idea of the green bearings as I wouldn't have to fiddle with end play but I'm not sure they are good enough for a cruiser car that takes lots of turns.

So the tach is reading correctly huh, strange what a difference a few hundred rpm can do then.  It still reads plenty high but it sounds and feels real nice when I drive it.  (save the grinding noises)

for the first time I was able to take it out on the freeway without deafening myself.  Good thing I only took it one exit away as I was unaware of any looming issues with the axle.

This has been one heck of a learning curve so far!  My thanks for all of you that are helping me out.  I do hope many people will learn from my mistakes when they do their own swap.

[charger Downunder]

I Hope this helps i took the caps of my NOS u joint pn 4057025 and it measures 87.6mm across the joint.

[Dino]

I Hope this helps i took the caps of my NOS u joint pn 4057025 and it measures 87.6mm across the joint.

Thanks!  I'll measure mine as it is now and see what I got.  I'll also measure the ones in the store to see if there's any variance.

[charger Downunder]

I Hope this helps i took the caps of my NOS u joint pn 4057025 and it measures 87.6mm across the joint.

Thanks!  I'll measure mine as it is now and see what I got.  I'll also measure the ones in the store to see if there's any variance.

Remember mine is a standard uni joint not the conversion one that you have. I have never seen a conversion one is it possible that the cross section on the shaft is two different lengths and the end caps which are different in size have been put back on the wrong shafts. say after packing them with grease.

[Dino]

I Hope this helps i took the caps of my NOS u joint pn 4057025 and it measures 87.6mm across the joint.

Thanks!  I'll measure mine as it is now and see what I got.  I'll also measure the ones in the store to see if there's any variance.

Remember mine is a standard uni joint not the conversion one that you have. I have never seen a conversion one is it possible that the cross section on the shaft is two different lengths and the end caps which are different in size have been put back on the wrong shafts. say after packing them with grease.

The only difference in the conversion joint is that the rear end part is shorter than the driveshaft part.  Cps and all are the same and interchange with the regular joint, or at least the one I took off my car.  All caps and clips are identical.  I actually tried using the old caps but there was no difference at all.

Tonight I'll try to set the axle end play and see what that does.  The adjuster nut is way tight though, am I supposed to whack it untill it's loose or should I first unbolt the flange?  This is a bit unclear to me.

I thought you have to seat both axles with a hammer, tighten down the flanges on each side (5 nuts total), and then adjust end play (which I didn't do) and finally put the little clip back in place.  Is this wrong? 

[charger Downunder]

Now i am confused
Cps and all are the same and interchange with the regular joint, or at least the one I took off my car.  All caps and clips are identical.  I actually tried using the old caps but there was no difference at all.

On a conversion u joint  7260 to 7290 the caps should be  1 5/64 and 1 1/8.
Have a look at this one is this what you have. It has the measurements in the add.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MOPAR-7260-X-7290-CONVERSION-UNIVERSAL-JOINT-U-JOINT-/360393352949?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item53e91e26f5

[Dino]

Now i am confused
Cps and all are the same and interchange with the regular joint, or at least the one I took off my car.  All caps and clips are identical.  I actually tried using the old caps but there was no difference at all.

On a conversion u joint  7260 to 7290 the caps should be  1 5/64 and 1 1/8.
Have a look at this one is this what you have. It has the measurements in the add.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MOPAR-7260-X-7290-CONVERSION-UNIVERSAL-JOINT-U-JOINT-/360393352949?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item53e91e26f5

Never knew they were different!  Albeit slightly.  I didn't change the caps on the conversion joint thouugh.  All I tried was use the caps that were in the old u join, rearend side on the new u joint, rearend side.  The caps do fit perfectly in the yoke and so do the caps in the dirveshaft so they must ne in the right place.

I don't know what brand that one is, I have precision #347.  If the one I have turns out to be busted I'm getting the neapco part, I hear it's better quality.

[Dino]

What am I doing wrong?  Turned the adjuster nut counterclockwise a few notches and when I turn the wheel the driveshaft no longer turns, no matter what gear it is in.  Also there's a squeeck coming from the transmission when the driveshaft does turn.  When I have the adjuster nut turned clockwise so the driveshaft turns again, I feel no play in the axles at all.

I'm trying to get this thing back on the road but I am stumped.  Please help!

EDIT:

Since I had no clue what was going wrong I thought I'd take a few steps back and unbolted the axles completely and pulled them out a bit.  As far as I could tell the bearings looked fine, I did clean them up and packed them with fresh grease again to be sure.  I pushed the driver's side axle back in and bolted it down, plenty play on this end, gave it a good whack with a mallet.  Went to the passenger side, tightened the flange down, thgihtened the adjuster nut and backed it off two notches, tightened the flange and put the locking clip in place.  Gave it a whack with the mallet and turned the wheel (hub) several times, can't feel any endplay on either end now.  When I loosen the nut two more notches I can spin the wheels and the driveshaft won't turn so I left it alone.  The adjuster nut is a bit looser than it was before though as I can tap it loose or thight with some well placed hits whereas before I had to loosen the 5 flasnge bolts to get any movement in the adjuster nut.

Oh and the squeek in the trans apparently went away.....weird....

Took it out for a short and slow spin around the sub and all the noises were gone.  Then again, I didn't get the noises last weekend until I had driven it for a while so maybe it'll come back in which case I really don't know how to proceed.

I'm taking it to work tomorrow, It's two turns and a straight road for 10-15 minutes and after lunch I'm going to the main office another 5 minutes from there.  If something happens at least I won't be far from home.

I would take it to a mechanic, but I don't know any around here and I don't know what this would cost me now they're charging close to $100 an hour.

I can honestly say I'm reluctant to fix the leaky header and install the valley pan!      

[Dino]

Ok....I thought all was well....

It's a gorgeous day in SE Michigan so we took the charger out for a nice cruise.  We took all the quiet roads in the country, enjoying the views.  After about an hour and a half of driving I noticed it made some slight rubbing noises when I came to a stop, we went a bit further and I pulled into a parking lot so I could drive slow and listen.  When I take a turn you can here the axles squeek, plenty loud to hear over the leaking header.  When I go straight I can hear some rubbing or grinding, and that's usually when I am close to stopping.  At times I can just cruise and go straight and not hear a thing, then I turn and all that squeek is there.  This is all at very slow speeds, once you're up to speed all you can hear is the engine and exhaust.  5 minutes later there's no squeek when I turn, but there will be more rubbing going straight.  Then the squeek is there when I turn left, a bit later only when I turn right

What the heck is going on with this thing???

Why does it start doing this after such a long drive?  Is my endplay still too tight?  Does everything get hot, expand and start rubbing?  I packed the bearings with the yellow wheel bearing grease, is it not good enough?

I found a mechanic that can look at it on Monday but I really really hope this is something I can fix myself as I don't want to spend a few hundred bucks on this.

[Chryco Psycho]

possibly , as it heats up the end play will go away
did you ever end up with end play ? you should fell it bump in & out slightly , the spec is about .008-.010

[Dino]

possibly , as it heats up the end play will go away
did you ever end up with end play ? you should fell it bump in & out slightly , the spec is about .008-.010

I didn't feel it bump.  The weird thing is that if I unscrew the adjuster nut a bit more and I turn the wheel, the driveshaft no longer turns.  How is that possible?

When I adjust the nut it is easiest to dwhen the 5 flange nuts are loose.  Should I do it that way?  Turn the adjuster counter clockwise, rethighten all 5 nuts and check for end play?  rinse and repeat untill it is right or should I leave all 5 nuts thight and turn the adjuster nut ccw untill the axle has the required amount of endplay?  I really have to bang on the adjuster nut really hard to get it to move with all 5 nuts tight though.

[Chryco Psycho]

loosen the 5 nuts & back the adjuster out a few turns , re-tighten the 5 nuts & the adjuster will turn inward very easily without loosening the 5 nuts remove virtually all the end play , seat the axle with a hammer & you should just be able to feel a bump
The other wheel is probably turning backwards with the adjuster loosened so the driveshaft quits turning

[Dino]

loosen the 5 nuts & back the adjuster out a few turns , re-tighten the 5 nuts & the adjuster will turn inward very easily without loosening the 5 nuts remove virtually all the end play , seat the axle with a hammer & you should just be able to feel a bump
The other wheel is probably turning backwards with the adjuster loosened so the driveshaft quits turning

Man I owe you and the members on this board for helping me through this, it's just mystifying sometimes.  Now I don't have to worry when the driveshaft quits turning I think I can finally fix this.  I am prepared to adjust and readjust several times until I have it just right but it helps do know the thing's you're doing actually make sense. 

Do I need to remove or lift the driver's side tire of off the ground when I do this or do I need to loosen the 5 nuts on that side as well or leave it as is and just work on the passenger side wheel?

[Dino]

I put the car on stands again and removed the wheels and did exactly as you described.  I now have a slight amount of endplay, just enough so I can feel it.  I only had time for a 30 minute drive after so tomrrow I'll go for a long drive and hope the noise stays away.  If it does not then I'll give it a bit more play.  Thanks again Chryco for all the help.

[Chryco Psycho]

Anytime , Glad to help

[Dino]

I took the same trip this morning as I took yesterday, and then some.  Not a squeek, not a peep, axle is quiet as it should be.  I can hear a faint whine at certain low speeds and I mean really faint.  I was listening for noises, I probably wouldn't have noticed otherwise.  This is with the windows down and cruising at low rpm so the engine runs very smooth.  As soon as I make the ngine drop or raise a few hundred rpm the sound is gone. 

I drove for about 3 hours straight today under a clear blue sky with fall colored trees all around me, it was awesome!!  I then took it our a few times again just for the heck of it, dang I love this car!

I was also able to fix the radio so it doesn't blow the fuse anymore when you turn it on, sadly there's not a whole lot of am receptiion around here and the pumping 2 watt radio doesn't really rattle the windows!   

I need to add an amp to that thing and an aux port.

[nvrbdn]

sounds great. glad to hear the day went so well.

[Chryco Psycho]