Need help choosing a project charger

[Offspring]

Hey new to the forum, Just wanted to say Ive saved up some money to buy a project charger (4k) and I've been searching for what seems like an eternity. A little over a year ago I managed to save up 17k and was going to get 68-70 charger. However I was rather impatient and tired of my undependable 94 Mitsubishi 3000 GT so I took out a loan for 20k and put the 17k down on a 2008 low mileage Z51 Corvette. Now here I am, I do enjoy driving the Corvette however I feel like I would kill to be cruising around in a black and chromed out 1970 dodge charger with a 440. So I decided I could have "my cake and eat it too" and managed to save up a couple paychecks and wallah. I Have recently been scouring the internet, E bay and Craigslist and this site to find a decent charger to rebuild.

A few weeks ago I stumbled across an ad in a Craigslist section all the way over in Missouri (I currently live in Northeastern PA) stating that a guy had a 1970 dodge charger for sale and was asking 3500 he provided a couple pics. I contacted him the following week and told me had 6 dodge chargers 1 yellow 68 (3k), 1 1970 black 383 with vinyl top (3.5k), 1 1970 green 383 (4k), 1 1970 plum crazy purple 318 (3k?), 1 1970 burnt orange 383 (3.5k), and one 1970 with an aftermarket paint job it does have a 383 and a 4 speed (8k). All of them are priced between 3k to 4k and the one with the 4 speed he wants 8k because he says it doesn't need much work. From what I was told he wants 4k for the green one because that needs a little less work then the others. The one that I am interested in is the 1970 Black with a white vinyl top and it was equipped with black leather seats, he also told me it has what he believes to be a numbers matching 383 in it.

So here's a few dilemmas I've run into
1. I'm a great deal of distance away from him and he seems like he doesn't know to much about the options the cars have and either do I.
2. My goal is to have a black and chrome 1970 with a 440, what would make it better would be power windows, disc brakes and maybe if it had some nice options or was a R/T S/E
3. Numbers matching....does everything have to match to be considered matching "IE all the metal work has to be original all the way down to the glass windows. Basically you cant have any new parts on the car that the car did not come with ?
4. One of the chargers he has that I'm looking at has an auto on the column while I would prefer the auto on the floor. Could I change that set up ? And if I could would I decrease the cars resale value when its restored ?
5. Could somebody explain to me the differences between a R/T car and R/T S/E chargers ? Is it certain parts they had that the base could not come equipped with like the 440 motor and or power windows ? I was curious as to what these trims set it apart from a base model.
6. Last but not least what questions should I ask this seller ?!?!?!? Any particular place where it gets rusted and or hard to fix / a lot of money to restore ? Since I'm rather far away from the seller if it seems good I will either fly down and U-haul it back to PA or drive a truck with a trailer down there to pick it up then drive back up to PA.

Now I'm young and don't have much knowledge with rebuilding older cars but I did graduate in automotive mechanics and do have a few credits in motorsports at my local college. I'm currently looking into picking up a few boos and wring diagrams for the charger but I had a few body questions. Where exactly do you sand blast the car. I have a drive way and I don't see it really working out because the media would be flying everywhere (I do have a blast cabinet  however I cannot fit the whole car in there). Should I take it to a restoration shop to have it media blasted ? Also I heard restoring quarter panels is rather extremely difficult and that I should probably have them installed by a professional.

Well that's pretty much all I can think of off the top of my head, comments questions and suggestions are much appreciated. Here's the pictures he sent me 























So I received the pictures a little jumbled up and i tried to piece them to back into sequence, the main charger I'm looking at is the black with white vinyl top (aka the one with the general lee door). THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR ALL OF YOUR HELP 

[Offspring]

It's rather late and was too tired to proof read, It should say "buy books and wiring diagrams", thank you for reading and your help.

[41husk]

Any of those cars will cost you over 20 k to restore.  I think in this economy you can find something very nice that you can drive and restore at the same time for under 12k.  I would keep saving your money and try to find the most restored car you can.  I have finished several projects and have never gotten the money out that I put in to them.  infact I had planned to never part with them, until something came up for sale that I wanted more.

[Chryco Psycho]

I agree , the more you spend initially the less it will cost in the long run to finish the car , I would sell you my completely retsored 71 R/T clone 440 4 spd for just over 20 k with nothing to od to it just drive it

[bill440rt]

Welcome to the 'site! 

Those are some helluva project cars right there. Especially for a first-timer that is "young and don't have much knowledge with rebuilding older cars".
You'd have at LEAST $20k in any of those cars, and that is a very conservative figure with you doing all if not most of the work yourself.
If you have the ambition, time, & money and love a challenge, go for it! If not, and want immediate gratification, then find something done or that needs very little work.
Good luck!

[Dino]

You can buy a few nice '70 Chargers for what it costs to restore one of those, even when you have the time, space and knowledge to do most of the work yourself.

If you WANT a project and nothing but then by all means but be prepared to spend a few times the value of the car when finished.

[64dartgt]

There is nothing wrong with wanting to do a project and/or loosing money on a car.  The problem is that there is loosing money and then there is loosing a lot of money because you bought a money pit.  Sounds like you have some sound mechanical know how, but are less experienced with body work.  Most of the cars in the photos would be total body rehabs...floors, quarters, etc...etc...perhaps even frame work. 

Think about what you can do well and then think about where you will have to spend your money or a lot of time.  It's a lot more fun being able to drive and restore your car.  Maybe it isn't a show car the first time around, but plenty of cars get disassembled and never reassembled by the same person.  One of the problem with the second gens is their popularity.  It is hard to find a car that hasn't been touched, and retouched, where you can still find unmolested examples of 1st and 3rd gens easily.  $4K doesn't buy you much 1970 Charger these days...but it gets you a nice 3rd gen.  You really need to save twice that to get into the market.  Every thou you spend up front will save you five fold on the other end.  Also, be you will need to be patient to find a good car at a good price.  Lots of junk out there.  Beware guys who say "well it just needs this and it will start, but I don't have the time" because it is NEVER true.

I bought my third gen because the market you are in is the same for 1970's Challengers.  Stupid money for a car that is one step above parts.  It was about $10K for a decent shell.  So I bought a solid 73 Charger, which has virtually the identical interior and drive train for $2K.  That was even a bit much, but I liked the fact that it has a factory sunroof, AC and power windows and that it is an non-SE car.  I am at the age where I have money but not time so I have paid to have most of the work done to it.  If I had just spent the money (about $10K now) on a car straight out I would be way ahead of the resto game, but perhaps have had to have certain things I didn't like.  For example, I likely could have found an SE with the sunroof, AC and power windows easily.  I haven't seen many non-SE sunroof cars.

[NHCharger]

Welcome to the site
I've parted out better looking cars than the group of cars you posted. Although prices have come down second gens are still stupid money in some cases. I bought a 68 project in January (there's a thread on it in the Charger section). Even with a stout and running 440, new interior, new quarters already installed and only missing a handfull of parts I'll probably have 18-20k into it by the time I'm done, and I'm doing the majority of the work myself.
Getting a project like that for your first cool car can get discouraging as the project drags out. You having automotive skills will be a huge plus for you for any restoration project.

[Darkman]

If you want a project, search for one with good solid floor pans and trunk pans, good rear quarters and rockers. Thes parts, although accessible through places like AMD are the most difficult to replace correctly. So in brief, get one with a good solid body and clapped out running gear and rebuild that yourself

[bull]

I agree , the more you spend initially the less it will cost in the long run to finish the car.

That assumes the guy that did any body work wasn't using duct tape and chicken wire for Bondo base material. There are probably as many complaints on this site about getting shafted by a bad seller with a $17k car as there are complaints about how much it costs to restore a $4k basket case. If you decide to buy one that's alleged to be "restored" just make sure you know it's been done right.

And don't buy one online without looking at in person it first!

That maroon/silver one looks to be about the best of the lot (although that's not saying much), for one because it's closer to being complete. It might be an original 4 speed too. It can be a real expensive pain to find all the missing parts you need such as a heater box, seats, etc., so finding a complete car will get you way ahead too.

[HOTROD]

Hay I live in MO. maby I could check them out for U my work is slow !!???

[Mikesmoparperformance]

Welkom, I see take the 4speed as well looks good! But check the VIN first if it is a real one!
But then again it cost indeed about 20k or more to get in show room condition!  

VIN Code is D 21 Check it out!
D21 A833 4 Speed Transmission With 383 4bbl       201 built  

And a number matching cars is only the engine, trans and the VIN it self, Not the rest off the body parts.
That must always be change out so if the engine and trans match up your good

[1970Moparmann]

All these cars are major restoration projects.   Like what was said, save your money and find a driver.  Use Tempest and search all of the Craigslist ads and find a good one.   You can find a good driver for a decent price in this market.

Good luck.

[Brock Lee]

Between all the body work required and tracking down better/missing unavailable new parts, you will have a ton of money in one of these and wont be driving it anytime in the near future. Even if the car was free you would end up having more than its worth tied up into it.

[charger_fan_4ever]

IMO those cars are parts cars, not a restoration project. Looks like most of them started to be parted out. Keep in mind you can't buy any new repro hoods or fenders for the 70 cars. Good luck on buying a good used fender that hasn't been patched 10 times.

Seeing them out in the field in the east coast i'd bet they have the optional see through rear frame rails and springs threw the trunk floor. Even if they were 440 cars you'd have the cost of what you could buy a turn key car for if not more. Once again IMO when you start changing frame rails it better be a rare car or have some kind of sentimental value cause at the end of the day you will lose your shirt if you have to sell it.

I'd have to agree with Bull though. A lot of running projects underneath all the bondo and patches require as much body work as a cornfield car and are almost better off with a 5k car in boxes.

[Offspring]

UPDATE: Well really not much I didn't contact the guy back yet but I did some more searching and only stumbled across 2 findings

1: http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/pts/2601483636.html , Looks like a good project at a good price, kinda weird about the title/vin.... ?

2: http://cleveland.craigslist.org/cto/2569283828.html , A little more then the cash I currently have available to spend .

Also I think I may have come off as I would just like to pay a small amount and drive off in one of these. However I know that repairing one of these won't necessarily be a walk in the ball park. I'm looking forward to having it sit in my drive way for a year or two and work on it on my free time and slowly sinking money into it instead of paying for one upfront. My concern was restoring one (rare low production type) and ruining its over value from a car that could be worth 80k but now its only worth 30k because I changed it from a column shifter to one that's on the floor etc.

With that being said do you still highly discourage me from obtaining one of those chargers in Missouri ? I'm not intending to restore a charger and make profit off rebuilding it (Only if it was a rare production run  ) . I'd like to pick a 1970 and restore it over a year or two (probably spend 15k-20k overall to restore) into a charger that resembles this http://pueblo.craigslist.org/cto/2583734515.html

[Dino]

UPDATE: Well really not much I didn't contact the guy back yet but I did some more searching and only stumbled across 2 findings

1: http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/pts/2601483636.html , Looks like a good project at a good price, kinda weird about the title/vin.... ?

2: http://cleveland.craigslist.org/cto/2569283828.html , A little more then the cash I currently have available to spend .

Also I think I may have come off as I would just like to pay a small amount and drive off in one of these. However I know that repairing one of these won't necessarily be a walk in the ball park. I'm looking forward to having it sit in my drive way for a year or two and work on it on my free time and slowly sinking money into it instead of paying for one upfront. My concern was restoring one (rare low production type) and ruining its over value from a car that could be worth 80k but now its only worth 30k because I changed it from a column shifter to one that's on the floor etc.

With that being said do you still highly discourage me from obtaining one of those chargers in Missouri ? I'm not intending to restore a charger and make profit off rebuilding it (Only if it was a rare production run  ) . I'd like to pick a 1970 and restore it over a year or two (probably spend 15k-20k overall to restore) into a charger that resembles this http://pueblo.craigslist.org/cto/2583734515.html

I restored cars for a living for over 15 years and would not touch the cars you initially inquired about.  Besides the huge amount of money one of those would need there is no way you can restore it in a few years.  Frankly, unless you can double your budget and can work on it full time, it will likely never run again. 

$15K-$20K will buy you a very nice running '70.  As I understand you can't spend it in a lump sum so you would like a project ending up costing that much.  Fair enough, we've all been there.  I would advise you to talk to some of those people who've had their project on the lawn for the past 15 years because life tends to get in the way of projects like this.

At the very least you would want to buy a car that is complete.  At least for the most part.  Good projects are complete cars that run but have iffy brakes and a shotty trunk floor.  Lawn ornaments have rot everywhere you look so be honest to yourself and find out what you can spend and how much time it would take you.  Be realistic, you will only disappoint yourself if you don't face the music.

It can be done, you can find the project that is right for you but take your time, shop around, there's still plenty out there.

If you want to do any modifications to a charger then I suggest you findthe leasts valuable of the bunch.  Nobody likes to see a matching numbers R/T modified. Besides you'll pay a lot less for a base car with non original engine!

How much would you be able to spend initially?  Just the car.

[napaguy]

Well I am in the minority here...I bought a project car simialir to what has been pictured and Ill go into some reasoning why. I didnt want to take out a loan for a car so my budget dictated that I buy a project car that needed everything. I am an odd one that enjoys chasing parts as it gives me time to spend with my kids on road trips. I will have around 6k into a complete project car that needs totally restored. At this point im not too far upside down. But I do realize that by restoring a car like mine I will be upside down very soon and will never recover. But I will continue on because it is my dream car I have always wanted. When I finish it no doubt I will be upside down but I dont plan on selling so im ok with it. Personally I would rather buy a complete car that needs everything than a car that is "restored" and have the possibility of tearing it down because it wasnt restored properly. With that said I do my own body work including rust repair so that puts me ahead of the game money wise.

[bill440rt]

Please don't let some of the comments discourage you. They are just big projects from what you have posted, & could be certainly daunting for a resto first-timer. From the pictures, I don't think any of those cars are beyond hope or fall into the "never hitting the road again" category. They are just big projects is all. I've seen worse cars brought back from the dead, & better cars parted.

My '69 was probably in similar shape to any of those cars you posted. Incomplete, apart, and needing much metal work. It took me approx 5-1/2 years, much parts chasing, and I did much of the work myself. I never sat down & counted what I have in the car, nor did I really keep track. It was whenever I got around to working on it, or whenever I had some spare money to put into the car. Sure, I could have done it on a much lower scale, but I chose not to so it took longer. I like a challenge sometimes.

Like I said before, if you have the time, money, and ambition, anything is possible. It's your dream, so what are you waiting for?? 

[Offspring]

BUMP!!! "back in bidness"

Its been awhile since I've been on because of a small  problem snow balling out of control and taking my charger funds with it  .
Anyways did some recent searching and stumbled upon this 1970 dodge charger. Whats crazy is this..1. its in my price range and 2. its relatively close to go look at ?!?! (40 min drive). I will post the link near the bottom of this reply. For starters its a 1970 dodge charger that had a 318 but now has a built 440 and its tubbed. I've contacted the seller, turns out to be a friend selling for a friend also he is pretty hard to get a hold of. His buddy is asking 6500, Im going to try to go see it this weds. It was hard to understand him completely on the phone (bad reception) so Im not entirely sure of the work he said it needed and what was good. Heres the link

http://scranton.craigslist.org/cto/2884778874.html

He also sent me some pictures to my email but 4 out of the 5 he sent me are on the craigslist ad  . But when I go there this weds I will take my camera and take some pictures for you guys. Any particular area I should make sure to get extra photos of ? Also and because he said it came with a 318 I could assume it wouldnt be an r/t or a se ?

Oh btw the charger funds are hoovering at 8-9k and I have a fear if I dont purchase one soon I will have to buy a cruiser motorcycle

[Kern Dog]

The R/T model only had 3 engine choices. The 440 4 barrel, the 440 Six pack and the 426 Hemi.
Problem areas? On cars that HAD a vinyl top, rust often forms on the roof and around the window frames. From there, water enters the trunk, rotting it out. Sometimes it goes further into the lower quarter panels.
I got lucky with my 70. I bought it in March of 2000 for $1700 and used it as a daily driver while my work truck was broken down!

[NHCharger]

Oh btw the charger funds are hoovering at 8-9k and I have a fear if I dont purchase one soon I will have to buy a cruiser motorcycle

I don't want to sound like an ass, but if you don't have the discipline to hang onto your money while searching for your "dream car", which could take years based on your budget, I think you will have trouble staying focused working on a long term project, such as the car in the C/L ad.

For 8-9k you can buy a very nice 3rd gen driver and be cruising in it tomorrow.

You live in PA. Every been to Chrysler's at Carlisle?? If not you should hold onto your money and plan to attend. You may not find a car to buy there since they are usually priced high at that show, but you would have a much better feel on what your money will get you.

[Joshua]

Any guy with a field full of scrapped out Mopars is going to be a little "high" on his prices.....
Leave those cars to the more experienced builders......or the guy with more $$ than "cents".....

[Aussie R/T]

well having an offspring with a passion for chargers wouldn't do me any harm.I also agree with the guys before those pic show a hell of a lot of work,they are far too gone in the rust department and too costly to restore like they said easy 20k.For that sort of money you could get a 70 numbers car with no rust at all which even comes with it's original numbers block all you have to do is get it paneled and painted and put it back together,ohh and come get it from Australia,   which would be quicker than getting all that rust cut out.For the record it's FK5 white top and a stripe delete.

[duanesterrr]

I am looking for a charger as well.

I have decided to find a driver to start out with.  Something that needs a bit of work but still runs and drives.

Someday I would like to undertake a project similar to those in the field... I think the threads here that have taken cars of similar stature and restored them are the coolest.  I would need an RT/SE Manual for sure to make it worth the effort/cost.