gonna have a race

[westcoastdodge]

toying with the idea of running my car on the dragstrip at santa-pod next year,my car is mainly stock with no suregrip  gonna build a strong 440 for it will probably have to do something with the transmission,nice big wheel/tyre combo and put a suregrip diff in it.
want to do maybe a 11 1/2 second Quarter mile would this be a tall order  any suggestions guys would be very welcome

[Chryco Psycho]

Nitto drag radials or true slicks , power is easy traction is tougher
suggestions for what ? the whole drivetrain?

[westcoastdodge]

hi  Chryco Psycho yep the power plant side of it is easy just need an idea of maybe getting it down without breaking anything,it seems to me like a stock 440 gives the 727 a hard time so will have to think about rebuilding that with heavier duty items 

[Ghoste]

A stock 440 and a 727 arent bad but if you are planning to make more power and add slicks, you canbet there will be some stock drivetrain components going south.

[Budnicks]

How strong of a 440 are you building ?  maybe with a 440 with a stout bottom end, some seriously ported heads, well tuned carburetor, headers, free flowing exhaust, hot ignition & N20 200shot properly tuned, for example; A 4000lb car & 400hp would be more like high 13's-mid 14's at 90-100mph would be more realistic, unless you have a high stall torque converter 3500rpm+ or quality clucth if it's a manual, better quicker shifting is a must, a well built trans manual or auto, SFI sheild &/or trans blanket, 3.91:1 or steeper rear gears, some drag radials or slicks, CalTracs or S/S springs or some other traction aid, quality purposed built shocks, sub frame connecters, remove 500+lbs of weight off the car & add 150-200+hp minimum or more preferably, a well tuned carburetor & some one who know how to tune for the conditions, a much hotter ignition system & all the SFI safety equipment you will need if you plan on running slicks or 11.50et at the track (11.49et or quicker requires a roll bar at the minimum), I would say get a NHRA rule book see what will be required for you desired ET/MPH , a SFI approved drive shaft safety loop, extended wheel studs, 3" harness (possibly a 5 point harness), SFI approved harmonic balancer & flex plate or flywheel/clutch, approved plumbing/fittings & fuel lines etc., I could go on & on about the safety stuff... Hope that helps some, it's a lot harder to run mid 11's than most people think it is...

[Cooter]

11.5 seconds out of a 440/727 with those huge, low profile wheels and tires on it? in a 4000 LB Charger? On pump gas? Good luck...I'd say your looking at about a $8K stroker motor. AND some deep gears.

[tan top]

   what the other guys say  

this is the  first motor combo i was / wanting to build , bought some/ collected  few of the parts  , not long after getting my charger !!  ( circumstances & life got in the way at the time so never built that combo! !)  !! remember this is before all the fancy aluminum heads & the hundreds of off the shelf stroker kits came about !! (& internet)   only the out & out racers had that stuff with the B1s not us guys on the street ,!
 wanted to keep it looking stockish  to the untrained Chebby eye !
was hoping to go low 12 s  maybe 12.1 s  to high 11.9s   &  112 -118 mph with out the use of N20 , was thinking about it at the time though  !

this was the plan !

440 + 30
kb pistons  in conjunction with  915 hp heads , steel shim head gaskets !  wanting to achieve a genuine 10:5:1 or 11:1 ( plan run pump gas on street , with a little race gas mixed in !  &  C12 at the track )
the 915 s ported polished three angle valve job , was undecided on getting larger 2.14 & 1.88 valves fitted !
stock forged crank & ly rods ,
purple shaft either a hydraulic .533 or a mechanical .528 cam  
( no low vacuum worries on the street for me !have manual drums )
ductail iron rockers
edelbrock torker intake or the torker 2 , what ever would fit ( was thinking going fiberglass lift off hood sixpack scoop style also)
holley 850dp
propper bent 3/8 fuel line with no sharp angles, with electric pump / regulator & return line
hooker or headman headers 1 -7/8 " , would go TTI now , but don't think they were even out then !?
converter with 3500 to 3800 stall
suregrip , 3:91 or 4:10 gears , undecided !( would of taken two pumpkins & swapped at the track )
28 or 29 inch slicks , what ever was going to fit with out rubbing !
chassis connectors ,
loosen or remove front sway bar , (track only )
undecided on running the OEM R/T  or some superstock  springs !
plus normal stuff , good ignition set up ! ,
H/V oil pump
windage tray
8 quart oil pan
etc  

if anyone builds this combo! or similar some time , would love to know how it runs !  

easier to build a mountain of torque these days with the stroker combos out there , that would prolly do the job in a heavy ole charger !!! but not cheap , once going the stroker option & big cubic inches , factory OEM heads & the stock 2 bolt blocks are the limmiting factor  !

[westcoastdodge]

hey guys thanks for the replys,really appreciate it,gonna build the motor to these specs (found over at moparts,sorry guys)
still the default 500 HP street/strip combo
fast68plymouth

just a few dyno numbers for you guys looking to build a reliable street/strip 440 based combo. its the same stuff everyone has used for years, and it still gets the job done.
the engine build up is:
9.9cr, forged pistons
ported 346's with 2.14/1.81
stamped HD rockers with adj. pushrods
torker II
850 holley(900 cfm)
big headers
old DC292 cam(new MP one is better)
deep pan w/ hemi pick up
decked, squared, balanced, rod bolts, etc.
electronic dist, 17 initial, 36 total
here are the numbers:
rpm.....tq/hp
4000...456/347
4100...478/372
4200...499/399
4300...506/414
4400...512/429
4500...510/437
4600...510/447
4700...508/454
4800...508/464
4900...505/471
5000...497/473
5100...497/482
5200...489/484
5300...483/488
5400...480/494
5500...474/497
5600...466/497
5700...457/496
5800...450/497
5900...448/503
6000...439/502
6100...432/501
6200...421/497
6300...410/492
already got most of the parts to do this build using a 1965 block with standard bore and forged crank,
the main thing that does worry me is the strength of the transmission and rear end what would one do to overcome this
got just under a year to sort it but really stoked about the idea

[Budnicks]

Looks like a decent combo, some stuff could be changed to make more power, but it's a decent start... The car needs to be addressed also, chassis stiffening, shocks, gearing, TQ converter/Trans & traction aids... Remember it's the whole combo not just a engine 512Hp/503TQ might get you in the very high 11's or mid 12's more likely, you still have a very heavy car... I'm not trying to burst your bubble or be a doubter, but it's not all that easy to get to the level you are talking about with a 4000lb car you need more than 512hp at 4400rpm & 503TQ at 5900rpm... if the car was only 3000lbs it would be a done deal... Remember you will loose quite a bit of that power thru the drive shaft, trans & rear end assembly to be able to get it to the ground, your looking at more like 400hp maybe at the rear wheels, using an automatic trans., if it's all done correctly... Just my opinion... Go for it have fun be realistic with your goals at 1st you can creep up on it or down would be better, if you have the right part/stuff to begin with... Good luck & have fun drag racing...

[Chryco Psycho]

  what the other guys say  

this is the  first motor combo i was / wanting to build , bought some/ collected  few of the parts  , not long after getting my charger !!  ( circumstances & life got in the way at the time so never built that combo! !)  !! remember this is before all the fancy aluminum heads & the hundreds of off the shelf stroker kits came about !! (& internet)   only the out & out racers had that stuff with the B1s not us guys on the street ,!
 wanted to keep it looking stockish  to the untrained Chebby eye !
was hoping to go low 12 s  maybe 12.1 s  to high 11.9s   &  112 -118 mph with out the use of N20 , was thinking about it at the time though  !

this was the plan !

440 + 30
kb pistons  in conjunction with  915 hp heads , steel shim head gaskets !  wanting to achieve a genuine 10:5:1 or 11:1 ( plan run pump gas on street , with a little race gas mixed in !  &  C12 at the track )
the 915 s ported polished three angle valve job , was undecided on getting larger 2.14 & 1.88 valves fitted !
stock forged crank & ly rods ,
purple shaft either a hydraulic .533 or a mechanical .528 cam  
( no low vacuum worries on the street for me !have manual drums )
ductail iron rockers
edelbrock torker intake or the torker 2 , what ever would fit ( was thinking going fiberglass lift off hood sixpack scoop style also)
holley 850dp
propper bent 3/8 fuel line with no sharp angles, with electric pump / regulator & return line
hooker or headman headers 1 -7/8 " , would go TTI now , but don't think they were even out then !?
converter with 3500 to 3800 stall
suregrip , 3:91 or 4:10 gears , undecided !( would of taken two pumpkins & swapped at the track )
28 or 29 inch slicks , what ever was going to fit with out rubbing !
chassis connectors ,
loosen or remove front sway bar , (track only )
undecided on running the OEM R/T  or some superstock  springs !
plus normal stuff , good ignition set up ! ,
H/V oil pump
windage tray
8 quart oil pan
etc  

if anyone builds this combo! or similar some time , would love to know how it runs !  

easier to build a mountain of torque these days with the stroker combos out there , that would prolly do the job in a heavy ole charger !!! but not cheap , once going the stroker option & big cubic inches , factory OEM heads & the stock 2 bolt blocks are the limmiting factor  !

I ran a combo similar to this it made over 500 HP & got my Duster to run 11.7 @ 118 weighing 3400 with me in it @ 3500 ' altitude , I weigh 160 BTW , I used the Mopar .590 cam & a lot of head porting though . I would suggest 1.6 ratio rockers with the .528 cam but Really I would suggest a beeter cam grind like the Lunati solid TF60/ Tf57 on a 108 CL for what you want to do .

[Cooter]

More over, 11.5's is ALOT harder to run than the guys on Youtube make it seem with the newer turbo/nitrous/blower high dollar cars....old skool 440 build will need at least 500 RWHP to run mid 11's reliably. Sure, if you want to be a "flash-in-the-pan" 11.5 second car that ran the number once  then i guess your combo could run it one time with a perfect day...You have to remember that even with 4:10 gears a 29" tall tire just cut the hell outta those 4:10's...
More like 3.60 gear final drive, as all gear ratios were figured up based on 26" tall tires. You need around 4:56 gear to run the time with optimum traction and a 60 Ft. time in the 1.30's....Good luck...Maybe Moparts can get you in the mid 11's with the current combo..

[tan top]

  what the other guys say  

this is the  first motor combo i was / wanting to build , bought some/ collected  few of the parts  , not long after getting my charger !!  ( circumstances & life got in the way at the time so never built that combo! !)  !! remember this is before all the fancy aluminum heads & the hundreds of off the shelf stroker kits came about !! (& internet)   only the out & out racers had that stuff with the B1s not us guys on the street ,!
 wanted to keep it looking stockish  to the untrained Chebby eye !
was hoping to go low 12 s  maybe 12.1 s  to high 11.9s   &  112 -118 mph with out the use of N20 , was thinking about it at the time though  !

this was the plan !

440 + 30
kb pistons  in conjunction with  915 hp heads , steel shim head gaskets !  wanting to achieve a genuine 10:5:1 or 11:1 ( plan run pump gas on street , with a little race gas mixed in !  &  C12 at the track )
the 915 s ported polished three angle valve job , was undecided on getting larger 2.14 & 1.88 valves fitted !
stock forged crank & ly rods ,
purple shaft either a hydraulic .533 or a mechanical .528 cam  
( no low vacuum worries on the street for me !have manual drums )
ductail iron rockers
edelbrock torker intake or the torker 2 , what ever would fit ( was thinking going fiberglass lift off hood sixpack scoop style also)
holley 850dp
propper bent 3/8 fuel line with no sharp angles, with electric pump / regulator & return line
hooker or headman headers 1 -7/8 " , would go TTI now , but don't think they were even out then !?
converter with 3500 to 3800 stall
suregrip , 3:91 or 4:10 gears , undecided !( would of taken two pumpkins & swapped at the track )
28 or 29 inch slicks , what ever was going to fit with out rubbing !
chassis connectors ,
loosen or remove front sway bar , (track only )
undecided on running the OEM R/T  or some superstock  springs !
plus normal stuff , good ignition set up ! ,
H/V oil pump
windage tray
8 quart oil pan
etc  

if anyone builds this combo! or similar some time , would love to know how it runs !  

easier to build a mountain of torque these days with the stroker combos out there , that would prolly do the job in a heavy ole charger !!! but not cheap , once going the stroker option & big cubic inches , factory OEM heads & the stock 2 bolt blocks are the limmiting factor  !

I ran a combo similar to this it made over 500 HP & got my Duster to run 11.7 @ 118 weighing 3400 with me in it @ 3500 ' altitude , I weigh 160 BTW , I used the Mopar .590 cam & a lot of head porting though . I would suggest 1.6 ratio rockers with the .528 cam but Really I would suggest a beeter cam grind like the Lunati solid TF60/ Tf57 on a 108 CL for what you want to do .

duster sounds/sounded good   
  thanks for the info on cams & rockers !, never really looked into Lunati grinds will have to have a read up of specs on their site ! only ever used MP purple shafts & compcams stuff , in the past !!

[westcoastdodge]

thanks for the replys guys what sort of HP would the rear axle take with bick sticky tires on a sticky track (8 3/4 742 case)

[Budnicks]

thanks for the replys guys what sort of HP would the rear axle take with bick sticky tires on a sticky track (8 3/4 742 case)

I have run 9.70's N/A & 8.50's with 800+hp on N20 in a3500lb RR, with Richmond pro gears (soft) in a back braced  8-3/4" w/742 housing, ring & pinion 3.73:1 or 3.91:1, I think the 30 spline "stock axles, bearings & stock wheel studs" are the weak links, I've used them in Dragster's & Alterd's also with great success, it all depend on how they are set up, the Dana 60 is a much stronger choice for sure, but the 8.750" set up properly can handle some serious power... Slicks have a tendency to break things sometimes even Dana 60's, if the rear axle is set up properly & you use some quality axles you should be fine with drag radials or slicks, of course unless you are using 15x33's or something large along those lines, then you need to do everything in the rear including a rear trust or bracing, hardened axles, spool, green bearings etc...  Good luck, happy Moparing, "don't get discouraged, we all have a tendency to overstate the builds & strength of things are always a concern, if you use quality parts & they are properly installed you should be fine with a 8.750" rear axle"...

[BSB67]

toying with the idea of running my car on the dragstrip at santa-pod next year,my car is mainly stock with no suregrip  gonna build a strong 440 for it will probably have to do something with the transmission,nice big wheel/tyre combo and put a suregrip diff in it.
want to do maybe a 11 1/2 second Quarter mile would this be a tall order  any suggestions guys would be very welcome

What is your budget?

[westcoastdodge]

toying with the idea of running my car on the dragstrip at santa-pod next year,my car is mainly stock with no suregrip  gonna build a strong 440 for it will probably have to do something with the transmission,nice big wheel/tyre combo and put a suregrip diff in it.
want to do maybe a 11 1/2 second Quarter mile would this be a tall order  any suggestions guys would be very welcome

What is your budget?

allready got the parts to build the motor minus inlet manifold and carb,gonna have around 5 grand(english pounds) to spend toward the end of the year

[BSB67]

Good.  You have most of the parts.  You have not been specific on you parts however, and the devil is in the details of the parts, the machine work, and build.  When Dwayne uses a "simple recipe" and list a few parts, don't presume throwing similar part together will necessarily get you there.  He is meticulous and precise in his work.  My guess is that today, almost no one will pay the $ needed to have cast iron heads worked like the ones he used in his build (Stealth's and Eddy's are cheaper), and the right pistons are needed as well, probably something with a 2.06 CH.  

The good new is if you do indeed match his build, you'll be pleased, as his dyno is conservative.  Most call it correct (i.e. not happy).  If you contact Ron (firefighter3931) on this board, he can probably tell you exactly what needs to be done to get the 500 hp as I think he has built more than one himself, or 383man on Moparts, his old motor was close to 500 but using a solid lifter cam.

You can cut through most of 5 grand in a gear, sure grip, tires, tranny, converter, fuel system, headers and exhaust system, and you have not even been to the machine shop.

[Ghoste]

Remember he is talking about 5000 pounds though, not dollars.  It works out to around 7500 dollars which still isnt going very far in the performance world.

[westcoastdodge]

the parts i already have for the motor are stock steel crank,stock rods,all bolts are ARP the block will be squared and decked
got a pic of the pistons that i have for it(got them with the block but could change if needed)(1965 block still on standard bore )7 quart oil pan with windage tray 346 heads that i am gonna have ported with oversize stainless valves and hardened seats.
any ideas on cam choice(need to be reasonably streetable)

[BSB67]

the parts i already have for the motor are stock steel crank,stock rods,all bolts are ARP the block will be squared and decked
got a pic of the pistons that i have for it(got them with the block but could change if needed)(1965 block still on standard bore )7 quart oil pan with windage tray 346 heads that i am gonna have ported with oversize stainless valves and hardened seats.
any ideas on cam choice(need to be reasonably streetable)

Go to Dwayne for both your head work and cam.

[68 Bullitt Charger]

the parts i already have for the motor are stock steel crank,stock rods,all bolts are ARP the block will be squared and decked
got a pic of the pistons that i have for it(got them with the block but could change if needed)(1965 block still on standard bore )7 quart oil pan with windage tray 346 heads that i am gonna have ported with oversize stainless valves and hardened seats.
any ideas on cam choice(need to be reasonably streetable)

Hi, can you give me the Sealed Power Eyebrow Piston's part#??? Thanks, Joe

[my73charger]

Just to give you a rough idea.  I have a 73 Dodge Charger with a 440, 727tf, 410 suregrip and 28 inch tall drag slicks.  With me in it and roughly 8 gallons of gas, it weighs in at around 3865.  I am making roughly 500 hp and my best run ever is a 12.35 at 111mph.

[BSB67]

Just to give you a rough idea.  I have a 73 Dodge Charger with a 440, 727tf, 410 suregrip and 28 inch tall drag slicks.  With me in it and roughly 8 gallons of gas, it weighs in at around 3865.  I am making roughly 500 hp and my best run ever is a 12.35 at 111mph.

That comes out to about 410 to 420net actual hp. Cannot really estimate the corrected gross hp (i.e. typical engine dyno reported hp) without weather data for the day that you ran the can.  If the DA was say 2000, I would guess that it would be a 460 to 470 corrected gross hp.  If the DA was higher, the gross hp would be higher.  If you know the date and track, the DA might be available.  Despite what some might say......those are very very good numbers for a street car.  Congrats.     Tell us about you're build

[my73charger]

Just to give you a rough idea.  I have a 73 Dodge Charger with a 440, 727tf, 410 suregrip and 28 inch tall drag slicks.  With me in it and roughly 8 gallons of gas, it weighs in at around 3865.  I am making roughly 500 hp and my best run ever is a 12.35 at 111mph.

That comes out to about 410 to 420net actual hp. Cannot really estimate the corrected gross hp (i.e. typical engine dyno reported hp) without weather data for the day that you ran the can.  If the DA was say 2000, I would guess that it would be a 460 to 470 corrected gross hp.  If the DA was higher, the gross hp would be higher.  If you know the date and track, the DA might be available.  Despite what some might say......those are very very good numbers for a street car.  Congrats.     Tell us about you're build

Hi there.  Yeah I am not sure of the actual hp now.  I did have it on a chassis dyno and it pulled 366hp and 406 torque but, that was before I installed aluminum heads, MSD ignition and I also went from a 750 vacuum secondary holley to an 850 double pumper.  I have picked up between 3/4 to 1 full second at the track since those upgrades.  I used this hp calculator:  http://www.gordon-glasgow.org/hpcalc.html

[morepower]

I built a 496 stroker to try and propel me to a low 11 time. Of course the car isnt done yet. but I did all that. going to run a 3800 stall converter, and stick with my 3.91's for now but may jump up to the 4.30's. normally super fast time and street freindly dont mix, a 440 would be even less street friendly than a 496 build. its kind of a tall order, but can be done.