Chivvy owners always yapping about how much mopars weigh....

[Blakcharger440]

Any time a mopar is mentioned I hear the same stuff from Chebbie owners that Mopars were really,really,really
big cars that weighed waaaaay too much. 
Anybody know how the 68-70 B-bodies compared to the 68-70 Chevelle big block cars
or even the 67-69 Camaro bigblock cars?

I know their Impalas weighed alot??? But even those guys talk about Chargers as if they are whales!!!

[dkn1997]

considering that a chevelle is a full frame car and mopars aren't, odds are that a B body would weigh less than a chevelle.

I don't know how accurate paperwork is, but my regi puts my charger at 3330 lbs.  originally a stripper car with a 318, and manual everything, no ac, no nothing.  I porked it up with discs, powersteering and a big block, so now I am sure it weighs more.

[ChargerSG]

I had Chevelle years ago(junk, sold it bought better junk, a Firebird ) and it weigh much more than the Charger, and you could really feel it when driving it, if you have a heavy foot you really feel it....

[Khyron]

My Charger weighs in at 3258, I don't think thats bad at all.

[WM23N1]

Curb weight of a 70 SS 454 3307#. I found it here. http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclecars/general/musclecars-comparisons.shtml

[69fuchs]

My 69 charger rt 440 auto weighs in at 3880 with a full tank of gas.
My 68 charger rt hemi auto weighs in at 4020
 
3300 sounds very light.  A chevelle is probably very close in weight to a rt charger.

A 67-69 camaro or a mustang from that era is lighter by far.

I had a 73 cuda 440 4 speed 8-3/4 it weighed 3690

These cars were weighed on a certified scale

[Blakcharger440]

Hey WM23 those numbers dont even look right...That site puts the 70 454 Chevelle at 3300lbs which would put its weight equal too that of a 68 Camaro bigblock and I thought the Camaros weighed less?

[WM23N1]

I dunno. I just typed in 1970 chevelle ss curb weight on my browser and thats what came up.

[WM23N1]

I found this at one of the ss sites........... 1970 came with one of the most popular and one of the most powerful muscle cars yet, the 454 Chevelle. Starting in 1970, GM ended the ban on mid-size car engines exceeding 400 cubic inches; so Olds, Pontiac, and Buick came out with their 455's while Chevy ansewred right back with it's 454 cubic inch beast, 7.4 liters of pure American Muscle! There were two 454's, the LS5, which was rated at 360hp, and the monstrous LS6 with a factory rating of 450 horses. This had the highest factory horsepower rating of any vehicle in the muscle car age, but unfortunatly, Detroit wouldn't see these numbers again (until the Viper, but that's another website). The LS6 had a single 800 cfm Holley 4bbl carb on an aluminum manifold, 11.25:1 compression ratio, solid lifters, four-bolt mains, a forged steel crank and connecting rods, forged aluminum pistons, and deep-groove accessory pullies. Also newly introduced on the 454, and 396, were new cowl-induction hoods which had a rear facing flapper near the base of the windshield to feed air into the engine. The styling of the '70 Chevelle also changed to a "vee" front end, hood pins, and five-spoke Ralley rims.

**1970 Chevelle SS 454 LS6 Convertable is valued at: $83,725

Total Production: 53,599

Dimensions (454 LS6): curb weight: 3390 lbs

wheelbase: 112"

length: 197.2"

width: 74"

height: 54.5"

fuel tank: 20 gal.

Engines: L34 402 V8 - 350hp @ 5200 rpm; 415 lb-ft. @ 3400 rpm

402 V8 - 375hp @ 5600 rpm; 415 lb-ft. torque @ 3600 rpm

LS5 454 V8 - 360hp @ 5400 rpm; 500 lb-ft. torque @ 3200 rpm; price: $289.65

LS6 454 V8 - 450hp @ 5600 rpm; 500 lb-ft. torque @ 3600 rpm; --/13 mpg

Performance: LS6 454 - 0-60 in 5.4 sec; 1/4 mile in 13.12 sec @ 107 mph; Top Speed: 145 mph

[genlee1970]

I just checked my Charger Source book, which has alot of road test info from back in the day. Most sources list the charger curb weight to be around 4,000 lbs, while all my sources for GM A bodies (Chevelles, GS Buicks, GTO's)  put them around 3800 lbs. Chargers are long cars, the rear quarters alone a 7 ft long. Plus the suspension is heavier with the torsion bars and rear leaves vs. the coil springs.
  Interestingly, a later road test comparison between the 73 Charger and the 73 GM A bodies, and the Ford Torino,  puts them all around 4100 lbs. Remember, all the GM A bodies grew in 73. I think that backs up the info on the earlier cars. Hope that helps.
  In the end though, I'd rather look at and drive a slightly bloated Carger than a more svelt Gm A body, and wouldn't we all.  

[Chris G.]

I could care less about what weighs more. A Charger is a Charger, and a Chevy is a Chevy. You make your own conclusion.

[bull]

So what if they weigh more or don't? What matters is which one looks better and which one pulls its weight down the track faster.

[derailed]

I cant speak much for the chevelles because ive always been more of a GTO person. I think the GTOs were a bit lighter than the chevelles, chevy motors are heavier. I had a 64 Lemans that weighed 2975 according to the reg. dont know how accurate that is.

[Rolling_Thunder]

I know my brother's Chevelle is ALOT lighter than my car...    his probably weighs around 3200lbs...        my car feels HEAVY to drive...   

[greenpigs]

Dimensions (454 LS6): curb weight: 3390 lbs

That just doesn't sound right..so I guess I should do a search.

Those are big cars and a 454 motor weighs close to 1000 pounds in full dress...with cast iron heads.

I'll see if I can prove myself wrong.

[Rolling_Thunder]

http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/default.aspx?carID=1976&yr=0

says a 1970 Chevelle with a 454 weighs in at 3260lbs...   that is probably empty as it is not listed as curb weight

[greenpigs]

Found this...ain't no stock 454 weighs 3300lbs.

ET: 15.85 @ 91 MPH.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1966 SS 396 / 360 HP PS/PB M20 with 3:31's curb weight 3800 lbs.

ET: 15.50 @ 89 MPH.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Car Life magazine..
1965 Chevelle SS 396 375HP Z-16 /PB M20 with 3:31's


ET : 14.90 @ 98 MPH.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1964 Malibu 283/220 HP M20 with 3:08s' Test Weight 3,345 lbs.

ET: 16.60 no MPH given.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1964 Malibu 230 inline 6 Powerglide with 3:08's no weight given.

ET: 19.6 @ 72 MPH.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1971 SS 350 / 270 HP " loaded " TH 350 with 3:31's Curb Weight 3650 lbs
Test Weight 3926 lbs.

ET: 16.90 @ 82 MPH.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1970 SS 454 LS-6 M-22 with 4:11's...Car was test driven by professional drag racer John Dianna....Curb Weight 3759 lbs .. no test weight given.

ET's : 13.44 / 13.48 /13.52 .. best pass 13.44 @ 108.17 MPH
------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------
1970 SS 454 LS-6 TH400 with 3:31's no weight given..

ET's : several passs between 14.50 and 15.0 with MPH's 96-97.6 MPH letting
TH400 shift for it's self in drive.

BEST ET Manually shifting 13.80 @ 97.5 MPH.
__________________
Al.
1969 El Camino
1969 LS-1 engine is a 427/335HP BBC
passenger car mill..( mine is slightly modified ).

Found this on a che-vel site...that 3300lb weight must be for a stripped out |6 malibu.

[Rolling_Thunder]

ok  so 3760 is the final number for a BB 70 chevelle...   

[TheGhost]

http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/default.aspx?carID=1976&yr=0

says a 1970 Chevelle with a 454 weighs in at 3260lbs...   that is probably empty as it is not listed as curb weight

Probably weight with no engine, and an empty gas tank?

Under the same restrictions, my Barracuda weighs just a shade under 2900 lbs.

[Ghoste]

Why should it weigh as much or more than a Charger?  It's a smaller car.  They have a shorter wheelbase and less end to end.  The interiors were smaller because they knew the guys with lots of pals had Mopars.  Look at the 1st gen Charger with the camper special backseat.  You could hide a bunch of friends in the trunk and go to the drive-in without worrying about getting out and opening the trunk to let them out.  Or, better yet, fold those seats down and open the trunk access panel and just bring one girl with you.  What self respecting girl wanted to be with a greasy Chevelle owner and have him trying to cram her into that little backseat when the 66-67 Charger owner was bringing an apartment?

[69pistolgripRT]

Also, who cares. I see 50 Chevelles to every one Charger at the shows. I'd take the Charger if it weighed 3000 more that the Chivvy.

Reminds me of a qoute from one of the Mopar mags a few years back.

"I can supe up a Yugo and make it haul ass, but who really gives a crap. It's still a Yugo."

Sounds like some desperate Chivvy owners trying to justify their inferior cars!

[69Charger500]

My '70 R/T-SE with AC, Power Steering & Power Disc Brakes, Cruise Control, 440-Auto weighed in at 4200# when I put it on the scales at work.  That weight didn't keep the completely stock motor from low 14 sec 1/4 mile runs.

[69Charger500]

more...

[Ghoste]

Those low 14's weren't at Lapeer right?

[69Charger500]

Good eye...  Those pics are just a little East of Lapeer, on Capac Road.  Although the track times were from Ubly Dragway a little further North East!

[Ghoste]

Not really.  I was teasing you about Lapeer's reputation for posting times that are a little quicker than other strips.  Do you live way up by Ubly?

[69Charger500]

Oh yeah.  I have heard that as well about Lapeer, but wasn't sure if that's what you meant.  By the way, that "stock" 440 did have a couple of "extra" non-stock things, like Mopar Electronic ignition, a 383 Mag convertor with about 2200 stall speed, and 3.55s, and lots of fine tuning!! 

The rest of the motor was a well worn original, though!

I live in Clarkston, near Pine Knob...

[Ghoste]

Been there many times.  I thought you lived closer to the tech center for some reason. You never said or implied as much.  I just assumed so for some reason.

[69Charger500]

Only 15 minutes away (10 minutes if I'm driving the 500)!!!

[Ghoste]

And no wrecks on 75.  Just think how quick you could be there in a nice light Shovelle.

[TK73]

Weren't the factory weight ratings usually low, say using the weight of a stipper 6cyl for all models so that they could save $$ on shipping costs (rail mainly) because the shipping co's used weight as a measure of cost?

[69Charger500]

I believe that is still true today regarding shipping costs versus the low EPA weight classes.  There are lots of reasons to advertise the cars are lighter than they end up being as ordered/delivered.  They all have to do with $$$......

I always considered the Mopars being heavier was part of their over-engineering back then.  Chrysler did not have the time and resources and dollars to "nickel and dime" everything out of the cars, like some other companies did.  They made them strong to pass the testing, and let it go at that.  with the other companies, if the cars passed the testing (durability primarily), then it was assumed they were "wasting money" if they didn't lighten them up (read: cheapen them up).

I guess the Dana 60 in my 500 was not the lightest choice axle available, but it did the job, and it was in the parts bins for the trucks, so it was easily adaptible to the muscle cars, and it was already available (meaning they did not have to design something from the ground up and tool it up for production).

Those decisions save big money in the immediate time being, although with the bigger production runs over at GM and Ford, they had a lot more to benefit from by taking out every nickel they could.

In the auto industry, there are many basic axioms.  One of them is weight = cost.  Reduce weight, and you save money.  Although this is not always true, it generally prevails..................

[Ghoste]

Absolutely true.  Look at a 69 Chevelle.  Eventhough it's full frame, it has that light rearend (and even the mighty mighty 12 bolt is a chintzy affair beside an 8 3/4) the puny axles, the dinky coil springs, the front suspension is all lighter duty components, the brake drums were usually smaller than Mopars or Fords.  The car is smaller when you start to actually measure it.  The Chevelle styling leads the eye to think it is as big as a Charger but line the two up.
Not completely relevant, but a few years ago I started a bet with a buddy of mine who was working on a 68 Cyclone GT.  He said some offhand remark about it being the only car on the road bigger than mine so we had a three part bet.  Overall length, overall weight, and elapsed time.  My car was two inches longer and nearly 300 lbs heavier (I forget the exact amount, it was like 276 or 278 something like that).  Quarter mile was a little tougher.  I beat him two out of three and my car's best is quicker than his best but that wasn't the bet.  On the day of, it was who's is quicker.  His third run he beat me by a tenth.  Not bad for a lowly 383 in a heavier car against a 428 CJ though.
I think you'd find similar results with the Chev except for the drag race part.

[69_500]

How much Mopars weigh? Now why would a Chevy owner bring that up? Every chevy owner I talk to just wants to talk smack about how his Chevelle will whip my charger. Now granted 99% of them have highly modified engines, and only want to race me because  they know my motor is bone stock.

[Ghoste]

It's part of their schtick to explain the many technical superiorities of things with engines named after rodents.

[chrisII]

lmao this is all funny schiznet. it really doesnt matter.  in circle track racing i mostly raced against the 73-77 montie carlo, cutlass malibu ect. those cars neaded much less weight added than my 69 runner, however i may have ben more carefull to remove every pound that i could when i buildt the car. there were a few 68-72 chevelles around and those neaded more weight added (all had to weigh 3500) i would say that stripped down with small blocks they are probably similar in weight. another thing i found , at least in circle track racing , and i think it follows to street use but notas much the strip is that a car really doesnt know 100lbs. ive seen guys have to add 100lbs and be faster than before and this is on 75 series street radials its all in the horsepower and how well it hooks up.

[Ghoste]

Where the 100 lbs is added makes a big difference too.  And I can assure you, it makes a big difference in drag racing.

[69_500]

I've always heard that 100lbs out of a drag car equates to .1 in the quarter. Which if you leave the weight in there, you'd have to generate a lot more horsepower to also get the .1 in the quarter.

[Mike DC]

It's hard to get a handle on the weight issue because so much of the cars' weight varies with what stuff is in it.  Published weight figures can be off wildly because of drivetrains, power steering/brakes, A/C compressors, bench or bucket seats . . .

We can split hairs all night, but all the Detriot companies were using more or less the same building techniques & raw materials back then.  And how much weight does the unibody construction method really save?  Maybe 5-6 feet of C-channel frame are eliminated on each side of the car?  Probably 50 extra pounds at most.  (And of course, the first thing we do with our beloved unibodies is to weld in a set of thick 1/8" wall frame connectors between the subframes.)

.