727 swap to A518 is done with pics and a vid

[Troy]

I just finished performing this swap in my 69 Charger and I have a bad pulsating vibration. It's not drivable the way it is, do you think I might have a problem with the pinion angle? I checked it and it seems OK. Did you have any pinion angle issues? 

What converter did you use and what engine do you have ? Most stock 518 converters are for externally balanced engines, might cause problems with a steel crank big block? Just a thought.

Troy

[Paul G]

Converter balance issues will arise based on engine rpm, getting worse with higher rpm. At least that was my experience. Drive line mis alignment, being pinion angle issues, will show up with vehicle speed. Being worse at a certain speed. In my case at 60 to 80 mph being the worst. Again my experience

[rcannon440]

My swap consists of using the 518 non lockup converter type unit to a 440 using the Ultra Bell bell housing. I used the same converter that was in my 727 and I had my drive shaft shortened and balanced at the same time. I measured the angle at the tail shaft of the transmission to be 3 degrees down and my pinion was at zero degrees. The vibration got worse the faster I drove the car. I then placed a set of 4 degree shims in the rear end because that is what I had on hand. Now I measure 3 degrees down at the tranny and 4.3 degrees up at the pinion and the car now vibrates at lower speeds and smooths out up at speed 50-60 MPH. I have ordered a set of 2 degree shims and I'll see what effect this has. I have cut and boxed in the cross member as much as possible to raise the transmission as much as I could.

[ACUDANUT]

Paul, where is the video you mentioned.

[rcannon440]

I will post more pics of this project

[Paul G]

Paul, where is the video you mentioned.

They are on the first page near the top. Vids are driving the.car watching the tach. I am out of town right now using my smart phone. I cant tell if they are opening?

[ACUDANUT]

Nope sorry I don't see it. Mabe I am going blind too.

[Tilar]

Nice job. Sounds like it shifts out just right.      I gotta say though, I'd be as nervous as a whore in church if my fuel gauge was as low as yours is in that first video.   

[flyinlow]

I will post more pics of this project

I made a plywood template of where the origonal 727 tailshaft was in the tunnel and then tried to locate the 518 as close as I could. (with in a 1/4 ") I cut some of the excess webbing off the 518 tailshaft housing that is used for mounting in trucks, this made it less bulky. My car is a '73 and slightly different then Pauls "72 and your '69 but I used the same rear mount.

[flyinlow]

The entire drive train on both of my Chargers is offset toward the passenger side about 1 1/2 inch. The tunnel above it is also ,so the transmission and driveshaft should be roughly centered. This could be for steering gear room or to balance the vehicle with just the driver in the car or to give the driver( who is normally paying for the car) more room or some other reason. I did not design the car.

The classic Trans/driveshaft/ pinion relationship is drawn as a stretched out letter Z with the trans tailshaft and the pinion being parallel. Of the four Mopar B body's with auto's I have checked ,I have never had one that was parallel. To do this in my current Chargers I would have to push the tailshaft housing up thru the floor of the car.

I get the tailshaft high as I can, which is acceptable according to my '73 FSM. This gets me as close to parallel as I can get.Then I concentrate on the desireable 4-6* of driveshaft/pinion angle. This is with the car in neutral with the car sitting on it's tires. As the car accelerates the pinion rotates up straightening out the rear u joint under high torque loads and simultaneously pushing the driveshaft forward for maximum spline engagement with the tailshaft. This is the desirable state. Full throttle reverse would cause the opposite to occur and an undesirable state.

The driveshaft angles are dynamic while driving and I think if you are reasonably close it will work. The above setup seams to work for me, vibration and u joint life wise. I have about 20K miles on my 440 /ultrabell/A518 trans.  

[Paul G]

Nice job. Sounds like it shifts out just right.      I gotta say though, I'd be as nervous as a whore in church if my fuel gauge was as low as yours is in that first video.   

LOL not to worry, just give the fuel gage a tap and it goes to the correct reading. I had gas, er...... fuel in the tank.

[rcannon440]

I would like to know what torque converter was used for your swap? Lock up or non-lockup, If non lock up did you use the torque converter from the 727 or 518? My engine vibrates terrible in park at 2500 rpms now where it didn't before the swap. I used the same 11" torque converter from my 727, this is a non lock up 2 wire 518 transmission I used for the swap.

[flyinlow]

I used the stock 11 inch lock up converter that was in the 518.. 1994 3500 van /360 engine.  I removed the external  balance weights from the converter.

I assume you have a steel crank internally balanced 440 and the 727 torque converter was neutrally balanced ..   

[Paul G]

I would like to know what torque converter was used for your swap? Lock up or non-lockup, If non lock up did you use the torque converter from the 727 or 518? My engine vibrates terrible in park at 2500 rpms now where it didn't before the swap. I used the same 11" torque converter from my 727, this is a non lock up 2 wire 518 transmission I used for the swap.

I used a brand new lock up style A518 converter with 2500 stahl. The lock up converter is splined differently to fit the A518 with lock up, so you can not interchange them with a non lock up converter. If you are vibrating in park or nuetral it is a rotational balance problem. Are you using the same nuetral balanced flex plate that was on the 440? The converter can be going bad internally causing the vibration. Is it stahling correctly?   

[rcannon440]

Yes my 440 is internally balanced and I'm using the same flex plate and torque convertor, the only difference is the 518 transmission. I finally took it for a drive down the interstate at 65mph and the car ran at around 2000 rpm with the overdrive engaged this part works great like it should I had a steady vibration as long as I had my foot on the gas cruising at 65. The vibration decreased when I would lift off the gas. Also when I gave the car half to 3/4 throttle heavy acceleration the car will vibrate terribly.  I wish I had measured the distance between the old 727 and the floor before I removed it to know how close the tail shaft of the 518 should be to the floor. Can anyone out there tell me how close the tail shaft of there 727 is to the floor on a 69 B body?

Thanks

[flyinlow]

3 inches center of yoke to tunnel above

[flyinlow]

we are replacing the floor pans but the tunnel is the undesturbed original.  1970 Charger 440/727, think its is the same. Car was a 318 car originally, looks like the right location and the car drives fine.   

[rcannon440]

That maybe part of my problem, mine measures 4 inches from the center of the yoke to the bottom of the floor. This may mean I need to make more room to the cross member to raise the transmission more.