whats gunna happen?

[Guns N Rotors]

I'm damn glad that I invested heavily in brass and lead the last few years.

[Brock Samson]

Oh Bob, you never disappoint...   

[ACUDANUT]

Yea, I know..BUY GOLD....

[jar1292]

im laughing smiling ear to ear right now you guys done the trick! i needed cheering up and you put in your two cents. thats what i asked for and thats what i got. my wife is very simple as she goes with the flow, she was raised with nothing and expects nothing in return. i was the opposite i if i wanted something i was taught to use the system to your advantage and earn what you desire, through hard labor. and it disgruntles my that we OUR nice folks in the big towns take advantage of our sweat and tears. my wife has taught my allot about letting things pass, it will get better after all there really ain't much i can do but loose sleep! no worries you guys are awesome (not only in cars). i know i dont post much but i log in almost every single day for the last 3 years. more or less to read of who bull is trying to yank around.  thanks again love you guys i really wish i lived farther east as to where the most of you guys are.

[BananaDan]

S&P are fools. 

Are they really fools?

Yeah, I'm in no way defending our gov't spending, trust me.  This is what I was referring to though...

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/08/chart-of-the-day-sps-2-trillion-error-explained.php?ref=fpb

[Richard Cranium]

I wouldn't trust that weasel Geitner if he told me the sky was blue.

[Paul G]

The big boys are on a feeding frenzy right now. That is why we are seeing huge point swings on the DOW. They have software programs that buy and sell automatically at certain points. Its going to be like this for a while. All told, the economy is not healthy, if the govmt does another artificial "prop up" deal the markets may rise again, or not! Just my opinion now.

[SRT-68]

What's gunna happen is thread is going to go political and get locked. Then civilization will crumble, and then the leaders of the opposing parties will rise from the rubble, dust them selves off, and check the value of their shares in gold.

Don't candy coat it, tell us how you really feel! 

[Ponch ®]

 

[Vainglory, Esq.]

Easy solution - stop orders.  I'm about 75% in cash now, because I hit my sell stops before the major downturn a few days ago.  I protected all my gains, and when I feel comfortable again, I'll buy back in.  I know trying to time the market is like trying to catch falling daggers, but that's why you pick things you like at prices you like and protect your gains whenever you can.  Why ride the rollercoaster?

By the way, given this nation's finances, it amazes my we're not rated triple Z.  We're broke beyond belief.  Without a major, major correction in the government sector (that's where the cancer is), the country will not survive.  Plain and simple.  Of course, we'll hear naysayers, and it ought to be noted that even the Roman empire limped along for a couple centuries after its true demise...

[derailed]

Kind of liking the rollercoaster myself but I like to make the round trip in the same day. Stop orders are a great idea also as long as they trigger during the day and not surprise you in the morning to find a huge overnight gap down.

[b5blue]

  To me this whole thing is just wrong.....How can a company operate well if there stock is swinging wildly and has nothing to do with their actual performance? This whole market is as stable as a 14 year old girls emotions, I say we put a small tax on every sale. That way the gov. makes a % off all this up and down frantic, rumor driven, speculative buying and selling. I thought the stock market was designed to raise capital to fund a company's operations, now it's completely detached from this concept.
  Commodity's (Like corn) are subsidized by us (The Gov.) to lower the price (Artificially) then the "Futures Market" drives up the price? This effects the livestock prices and speculators then drive this up? The whole time this is going on Joe farmer is being put out of business forced to be a subcontractor to very large agricultural corporations as they have bootstrapped and lobbied there employees into positions of authority to push pro big corporation legislation and unfair regulations?
  My (and your) car insurance is set by your credit score....really...really I could be the safest driver in the world and because a bank messes up and trashes my score my insurance goes up? I'm NOT politically oriented and just want to urge all of you to vote responsibly and urge all around you to do so also. That will be how we can know what is gonna happen!     
  I welcome enlightenment from this austere group of members if these statements are incorrect in any form or fashion as I do not claim to fully understand every detail of what is happened over the last 15 years.         

[Vainglory, Esq.]

That does seem to be incorrect.  From just the first paragraph: once stock is sold in an initial offering, the company gets the proceeds and is divested of the stock; stock price swings thereafter are borne by the people who hold the stock in the secondary market, i.e. investors, and not the company itself.  Also, taxing stock sales would never be something I could get behind.  We should be encouraging free flow of capital, not creating negative incentives.  If we tax sales of stock, capital becomes harder to raise and invest across the board, from major companies on down to individual investors.  And remember that the bulk of investor activity is found among large, institutional investors which may very well include your pension fund or your school's endowment.  And beyond that, the idea of having the government earn a percentage from each sale would be fine if we could trust the government to do something productive with it.  Empirically, we cannot.

[Troy]

Sale of stock by a private individual is taxed as Capital Gains (as long as you actually make a profit).

Otherwise, there's a lot more to it and you could probably write several books worth of material just to cover the basics.

Troy

[derailed]

Last time I checked Uncle Sam was already taking a healthy chunk out of my short term sale money. Flipping the markets isn't anything new. Look how they tried to pawn off the blame for the 2008 dip on the short sellers and tried to half assed ban that. Goes to show you how ignorant they think we are because short selling is just the opposite of a regular long trade. Sooner or later the seller will have to purchase those shares unless the company goes belly up.

[b5blue]

That does seem to be incorrect.  From just the first paragraph: once stock is sold in an initial offering, the company gets the proceeds and is divested of the stock; stock price swings thereafter are borne by the people who hold the stock in the secondary market, i.e. investors, and not the company itself.  Also, taxing stock sales would never be something I could get behind.  We should be encouraging free flow of capital, not creating negative incentives.  If we tax sales of stock, capital becomes harder to raise and invest across the board, from major companies on down to individual investors.  And remember that the bulk of investor activity is found among large, institutional investors which may very well include your pension fund or your school's endowment.  And beyond that, the idea of having the government earn a percentage from each sale would be fine if we could trust the government to do something productive with it.  Empirically, we cannot.

I see your point, and have no argument with it. It was my understanding that the original intent of "stocks" offerings was to enjoy the profits through the dividends from the company's efforts. It seems to me now they (stocks) are "chips on a roulette table" once past initial offer to the public. Winnings from gambling and lottery are taxed and hence my suggestion. If in the free flow of capital it evolves to nothing more than "gambling with abstracts" lets label it as such use the transaction as a sale taxable point. It is my understanding today's volatility in the market really just insures a huge profit for the brokers handling the buying and selling. They profit regardless of the direction a market moves. (I have no stock, or investments so nothing to gain or loose regardless.)  I totally agree with your closing statement and that is why I closed with my plea to vote! We are to be represented NOT governed by Washington. 

[Paul G]

Just like playing poker. Ante to the house every hand, sooner than later the house all the money.

[twodko]

Allow me to extend a "thanks" to Vainglory, Esq. for elegantly explaining how the financial market roller coaster works....or not. Your ability to explain this stuff clearly for "keep it simple" minds like mine is appreciated.
I especially liked the analogy to the Roman Empire. True words those and my beloved country and countryman are "limping along" as we speak and have been for some time.
How can we take back our country? How can we square away DC and those we put there without force of some kind? If we, as citizens, attempt to reclaim our country we'll be considered a seditious threat and locked away forever......... they will do it absolutely no question.
Were troubling times simply allayed by vote, we could all rest easy. I have always voted and always will because its my right and duty to do so but it doesn't appear to be a productive tool for change anymore. They all squawk a better future, positive change for the people, 2 chickens in every pot yada yada yada until they get into office and then all the campaign promises fall by the wayside. Once they are in office the opium of power displaces any notion of doing anything for the good of the country. The U.S. government is not of, for and by the people anymore IMO. Its about power and money nothing else. I'm bitter, disillusioned, angry as hell and feel despair that has no depth.  WTF!? End of rant.

[Paul G]

Read through this excerpt below. It's not political, it's historical. Then take a long hard breath, try to guess where we are at in the sequence.......... then go outside and enjoy your Charger, or whatever Mopar you have that we all care for so much.


In 1887 Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of Edinborough, had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2,000 years prior:   

"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse over loose fiscal policy, (which is) always followed by a dictatorship."

The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:   

From bondage to spiritual faith;   
From spiritual faith to great courage;   
From courage to liberty;   
From liberty to abundance;   
From abundance to complacency;   
From complacency to apathy;   
From apathy to dependence;   
From dependence back into bondage."

[RallyeMike]

A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, 

Thanks for posting that. How incredibly true.

[Charger_Fan]

The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:   

From bondage to spiritual faith;   
From spiritual faith to great courage;   
From courage to liberty;   
From liberty to abundance;   
From abundance to complacency;   
From complacency to apathy;   
From apathy to dependence;   
From dependence back into bondage."

Although I wouldn't classify myself as particularly spiritual, I do agree with you & see what seems to be happening before my very eyes. (that's an odd feeling in itself)  Having recently read Skousen's original publication of "The 5000 Year Leap" (I trust originals over later publications of most anything), and agree that we seem to be on the pendulum swing you've noted.
If it's true, God help our children...and us, for that matter. Our nation is now at 235 years and counting, the progressives have been working up to this general point of our nation's demise for almost 110 years now. And the odd thing is that our forefathers saw this as a probable scenario, 250 years ago...

[Charger_Fan]

Once they are in office the opium of power displaces any notion of doing anything for the good of the country. The U.S. government is not of, for and by the people anymore IMO. Its about power and money nothing else. I'm bitter, disillusioned, angry as hell and feel despair that has no depth.

IMO, it's gonna take more work on the part of the average tax paying citizen with the brains to vote, to turn this around. Most 2+ term incumbents are automatically out in my book...they have been drinking too much Potomac water by then & that's subsequently turned them into "beltway zombies". They end up voting whichever the prevailing winds blow...which is often against whichever direction the average citizen wants them to vote.
We need to keep voting fresh minds into that DC cesspool, and flush the stagnant ones out. Scrape the barnacles off the hull! Well, you get my drift... 

[Mike DC]

  
                         
We just need a "none of the above" option on all the voting ballots.  That option would probably win by the biggest landslide in the history of the country. 


I'm not seriously suggesting the idea would work.  But it sure would be fun to watch the initial ruckus if such an option was created.  The very next election would probably chop the head off the existing U.S. Federal govt more thoroughly than the Soviets ever dreamed of. 

       

[b5blue]

  I wish we could vote on Congress pay rates and benefits. How did it evolve to they decide what their worth? It's no wonder THEY get paid and receive a deluxe benefit package for life just for completing 1 term in office. A performance based pay rating ballot assessing production, days missed, voting track record and timely responses might motivate against all this partisan stone walling. The FAA's budget is a prime example of waste, it's like having a car in a body shop and saying OK next do the left rear section of the roof and I'll get back with you.
  I have watched Florida's state legislature waste (on public access TV) days debating new vanity license plates for cars, giving long blowhard speeches touting awards and accolades to each other and farting around like a bunch of middle school kids in unmonitored detention. Only later do they whine they had to work late, into overtime to set a budget deadline at the last minute before their next big holiday break. Then to see the Governor who ran on a cut waste platform sign each signature with a brand new pen, set it down and pick up another brand new pen for the next signature and so on. (?)
  Our power of vote combined with new technology providing access and communication of information is (I feel) the key to solving all of this. Go to the Congressional web sight and see what they are doing, let them know what you think! (And THANK A VETERAN!) If we can restore 40 or 50 year old cars we can restore this great country, we just need to want to! My son turned 18 last Saturday, in the mailbox he received the greatest gift possible, his voters registration. I urged him strongly to use the "connectivity" his generation is so familiar with to get involved, get informed and rally his peers to vote also.
  The market rally of yesterday was no surprise to me, watching the line zig zag down then up on the chart is something I check on yet don't claim any true understanding of. It's a vague "general" representation of what is happening, the more it moves the more money brokers made is what I figure. (?)                     

[stripedelete]

  I wish we could vote on Congress pay rates and benefits. How did it evolve to they decide what their worth? It's no wonder THEY get paid and receive a deluxe benefit package for life just for completing 1 term in office. A performance based pay rating ballot assessing production, days missed, voting track record and timely responses might motivate against all this partisan stone walling. The FAA's budget is a prime example of waste, it's like having a car in a body shop and saying OK next do the left rear section of the roof and I'll get back with you.
 

I applaud the idea.      But for the majority of the bums, their pay and benefits package is "chump change".  They don't leave for washington paupers and return
multi-millionares on that pay stub. It's all the "side crap" from "constituents" that's were they make the dough.   Which, in the end, makes this problem more impossible.