It's fixed, finally.

[BananaDan]

Just some facts, I'm not going to add any fuel to your fire Coot.  I think if we were both bumped up to a bar with beers in our hands having this conversation it would be much calmer.

1. I bought the car from Ray Catena Mercedes Benz in NJ, one of the longest existing and well known MB dealers in the NY/NJ metro area.  It was a 2005, I bought it in 2008 off of a three year lease with 14,000 miles on it.  It was CPO, meaning they inspect it and stand behind it as a new one, and I added a 3-year extended warranty from them on top of that.  I didn't buy this car from Bob's Used Cars in Newark and get my warranty from the jerkoff that calls my house every week on Saturday nights from some telemarketing office.  It is well cared for and maintained as it is supposed to be according to the owner's manual and their warranty policy.  Since it is under warranty, only MB techs have ever touched this car, I have it's service receipts for its entire life.

2. The car itself is what was reporting the problem, not me.  The heads-up screen would constantly nag me with the alert/warning about the headlight system.  Ironically, it would say "Active headlamp system failure, bring car to dealer".  So I did.  They saw the alert/error on the screen every time I was there and confirmed to me yes, we see the alert.  But the computer isn't reporting any logged messages.

3. As far as a POS, well, to each their own brother.  I have owned 6 cars in my life not counting my Charger, all US made.  This car is by far the finest made, high performing, comfortable, technology packed piece of engineered bliss I have ever had the pleasure of owning.  It is a blast to drive.  I do agree with you on something though, I think Lexus is crap also.  I test drove an Audi A4 and a Saab once and didn't like them either.  I have never driven any of the other European cars.  The only thing I don't like about the car is I can't work on it except for basic stuff like oil changes and brake changes, but most modern cars are getting like that. Everything is so hidden or packed in there you just can't get to anything.

[BananaDan]

Well Bill and Tigger, thanks for the lesson on how dealerships work.  I didn't know that the manufacturer screws the dealerships like that, and the dealerships pass that screwing down onto the techs?  Sounds like a load of bullshit to me.  I have to say though, I prefer taking my car to the dealer because I have the sense of comfort that it is being worked on by people that are supposed to know it best.  It now pisses me off that the guy that finally fixed my car possibly didn't get paid for it?  I don't see how that is legal.

Either way though, as an honest paying customer, I still had a gripe and I still feel it was legitimate.  Although me having a gripe doesn't mean the tech that finally fixed the problem shouldn't have gotten paid for doing the job.  That is messed up.

[Tigger]

The dealership is another world compared to an independent shop (good and bad).  As far as the tech not being paid to fix the electrical connector on your vehicle, he did get paid, but not for the time he had put into it. Can you imagine if it was a 40 pin or 60 pin connector, how long it would take to repair. Not to mention if he could get clear access to it. I'm not trying to cover for the guy, but if you ever get the chance to view an engine or body harness for these new vehicles, you wonder how cars actually don't falter more often.

A couple of WTF situations that you wonder how long did it take to figure it out.

On the LX charger platform, there was a concern of the trunk subwoofer intermittently thumping. The fix was to update the software in the SUNROOF module. Now how long do you think it took the engies to figure that one out. How long you think a tech is gonna try to find that solution. The dealership does not get all technical info on the vehicles from the engies. This is a sore spot among Chrysler techs. I guess its on a need to know basis.

Second wtf, i believe it was on 05 Rams(don't know what configuration), coming to a stop it would intermittently cut off. The fix was to replace pads and rotors. The reason being was the harmonic resinace would go through the abs sensor to the abs module and bring down communications on the buss. Now i don't care if who you are, you will not figure that out at a dealership.

I personally believe that independent shops usuall are better diagnostically than dealership because of limited access to technical info. Having said that we are hit up frequently form the indes for suggestions on where to look for a problem if their stumped.

Honestly, technology is way a head of trainging  and diagnosis. Too many and frequent changes to systems to give the customer the latest and greatest. How can a car manufacturer have teams of engineers to design only one platform and be experts at it, when technicians have to learn perhaps 10 different platforms with only one to two days of training for a particular platform on a particular subject like a/c or engines , or airbags. Very rarely systems overlap from platform to platform.

It is a losing battle and the ranks at the dealership are not being filled by quality personnel. No one is willing to lose their ass for two years just to get caught  up and certified. On top of that, the more your certified the more warranty work you get cause you are qualified to do it. It pays to be stupid. Don't forget the 15 to 20k in tools you will have to invest for the first five years.

I personally believe that the last techs are in their early 30's and the newest crop of techs and in their late teens to early 20's that want to be shown what to do instead of cracking open the service manual.

THIS IS MY OBSERVATION , NOTHING MORE

[green69rt]

I have to throw my two cents in on this.  Remember the days when a manufacturer produced the same car with a few upgrades like disc brakes or rear seat belts for several years in a row??  Now EVERY year is bigger and better, more power (ok, I like it) more gadgets, more options and most of all more electronics that get shoved into your car even if you don't want it or like it.  Think about the 2 gen Charger, lasted for three years and a lot a of parts swaped between them.   I have a 2005 Chevy Colorado, the next year the engine changed.  Not much but enough to make some of the parts year specific!!  This is a big reason that I would consider an older 60's or 70's dodge as my next car. 

New technology is great and I like it but don't make me buy it if I don't want it!!!

Ok, I've started ranting so I'll shut up now.

[Silver R/T]

That's why I prefer older cars (90's) they're easier to work on. They come up with more complicated technology to charge customer at the dealership. this way an average do-it-yourself guy wouldn't be able to do at home.

[Mike DC]

On the LX charger platform, there was a concern of the trunk subwoofer intermittently thumping. The fix was to update the software in the SUNROOF module.

The next time someone asks me why I don't wanna be a mechanic for a living since I like cars so much, I think I'll tell them this anecdote.

[resq302]

Thats just the reason why I would rather not buy a new car today.  You get things that you don't want or need.  If you wanted heated leather seats, you had to get navigation or some other stupid option that has absolutely nothing to do with another.  If you want bucket seats, you have to get a sunroof which costs more than the bucket seat option or get  the upgraded 20" rims.  Its not like our antiques where you can climb into the engine compartment and have a seat and work on your car.  Today everything is covered by plastic housings and other crap that is burried.  My mothers 03 Sebring convertible with the V6, in order to change out the rear 3 spark plugs, you have to remove the intake manifold.  What brainiac designed that engine?

[Cooter]

Yet, when given the choice to either buy that hard to work on V6 that gets 30 MPG or your old skool big block getting 11 MPG, you go for the Hard to work on cars every time...Amazing how that works huh?

[jb666]

I think it comes down to the fact cars have gotten so complex its near impossible to troubleshoot without a computer. We have a no start issue on our dinosaurs and its a simple check for spark and fuel...now adays it could be any of dozens of sensors or wires. Transmission issues are no longer easily identifiable, even suspension issues now can be hard to figure out (for example mercedes abc system is a disaster).

it could also be somewhat inability or lazyness...but if I gave u a new car and said "it dosnt start figure it ut without a computer" id imagine even the most skilled mechanics would be scratching there head for the simple fact that they know what *might be wrong but without that tool its very hard to figure out.

Ill take my carburetor, thank you very much.

Funny you'd say that ,Frank... You know the tuning fun I've had this season... A carb never looked better 

[RallyeMike]

THIS IS MY OBSERVATION , NOTHING MORE

Tigger - It's good to hear a rational voice from the tech side.

I've had more than glimpse of what you are describing. I've had two newer Mopars that were complete lemons, and the dealers could not fix them (95 Neon, 07 Ram CTD) despite repeated attempts. If you are Chrysler tech, I'm sure you are aware of the issues these vehicles had. It was pretty clear that the engineering was bad, the dealers were under a lot of strain bandaging things up with poor support and unreasonable demands from the factory. Throw in customers that are treated poorly by other shops and the percentage of customers that are idiots, and you've got a difficult environment to work in.

The cars are way too complicated and the engineering is being taxed by the competition in the market, consumer demands, and regulation. Simply looking at it, if you have a 1% failure rate and there are a 100 things to fail, things are looking pretty good. Apply the same rate to 1000 things and lots of things will need to be fixed. I don't think it's a stretch to say cars are 10x more complicated today than they were 30 years ago.

[Khyron]

Remember, A computer is only as smart as the programmer with the least experience.

best quote ever, I will be using this often at my shop :-)

[resq302]

Yet, when given the choice to either buy that hard to work on V6 that gets 30 MPG or your old skool big block getting 11 MPG, you go for the Hard to work on cars every time...Amazing how that works huh?

There are two reasons why I would get a new car.  1)cheaper and less time consuming in the long run to purchase a new car than to totally go over and restore an old pick up truck.  2) full warranty that can have someone else deal with the problems and let them fix it while I get a free loaner car.  Having two young kids and a house that needs work, my time is very limited.  If I had all the time and money in the world, you bet I would redo an old dodge step side pick up truck or a power wagon!  However, in reality, it is more economical and cost effective for me to get a new car.  And yes, I still think that all new cars are built like crap as today is a "throw away market" vs. years ago when stuff was built to last!

[Mike DC]

I've had more than glimpse of what you are describing. I've had two newer Mopars that were complete lemons, and the dealers could not fix them (95 Neon, 07 Ram CTD) despite repeated attempts. If you are Chrysler tech, I'm sure you are aware of the issues these vehicles had. It was pretty clear that the engineering was bad, the dealers were under a lot of strain bandaging things up with poor support and unreasonable demands from the factory. Throw in customers that are treated poorly by other shops and the percentage of customers that are idiots, and you've got a difficult environment to work in.

The cars are way too complicated and the engineering is being taxed by the competition in the market, consumer demands, and regulation. Simply looking at it, if you have a 1% failure rate and there are a 100 things to fail, things are looking pretty good. Apply the same rate to 1000 things and lots of things will need to be fixed. I don't think it's a stretch to say cars are 10x more complicated today than they were 30 years ago.

Don't blame the engineers, blame the decision makers at the corporate level.  I don't care what the problem is, it wouldn't have been there if it had been a bigger priority to the OEM to avoid it.  The amount of reliability of a car is purely a choice on the part of the corporation that makes it.  Leonardo DaVinci himself couldn't make a reliable car if the suppliers were cutting too many corners on all the components he specified.  No supplier will ever deliver the quality desired if the OEMs won't pay them enough per car to do it.   

[bill440rt]

The customer nowadays doesn't give a rats ass how you're getting paid and for what. They just want their car fixed correctly, and the first time. Like it or not, it is the customer who's supplying your paycheck.

:

And this is why OUR shop is set up to tell "Customers" like you to go straight to hell with that kind of attitude. This is the "un-understanding" side of things that makes me wish some of you worked on cars for about a year...You wouldn't have that attitude very long..

I honestly don't know what your personal beef is on me, Cooter. My comment about today's customers is pretty much a blanket statement that can be applied to ALL businesses nowadays. Like it or not, today's customers DO NOT CARE about anything except getting a quality product at a good price and FAST. This affects all businesses from the auto mechanic, to restaurants, or even to the guy on the corner selling hot dogs. I mean, if you went to the same hot dog guy for three times and your order was fucked up all three times AND he treated you like shit on top of it, would you keep buying hot dogs from him?? Didn't think so.
No where did I ever say the customer is ALWAYS right, heck even I've been wrong before. EVERYONE has. But look at business today. They are constantly changing to meet the demands & needs of today's customer. The economy sucks. If businesses today don't cater to their customers, they're gonzo.

[Cooter]

The customer nowadays doesn't give a rats ass how you're getting paid and for what. They just want their car fixed correctly, and the first time. Like it or not, it is the customer who's supplying your paycheck.

:

And this is why OUR shop is set up to tell "Customers" like you to go straight to hell with that kind of attitude. This is the "un-understanding" side of things that makes me wish some of you worked on cars for about a year...You wouldn't have that attitude very long..

I honestly don't know what your personal beef is on me, Cooter. I just call it like I see it..NOTHING in your post told me that was a "General" abservation....Looked like it was directed directly at me...Actually, I was thinkin' the same thing about while back when you decided that I'd be the one you decided needed to be evidently be told very rudely your opinion, but it is irrellevant now. If businesses today don't cater to their customers, they're gonzo.I really think you believe this, but you and I already know this is not the case when your GOOD, or the ONLY ONE supplying the needed "Niche" market..Why how many times have I seen people say things like "Well, he/she's a d*ckhead, but what are you gonna do, he/she's the only one that has it?", or "Well, if it weren't for the fact I know my junk will be repaired correctly, I wouldn't ever go back to he/she"....IF your GOOD at repairing cars, you reserve the "Right" to "Fire" a problem customer that can't be pleased.. I mean, a while back Wal-Mart was hiring illeagal aliens and is KNOWN to carry sh*t made in China..All the "Buy American" ranting don't mean a hill-o-beans come time for you to go grocery shopping....Yep, your at Wally World every time Why? I mean principles are nice and all, but when it comes right down to it your spending there cause it's freakin' cheap, not because of who they are hiring or what they are selling and from where. Bottom line is this....People will never go back to horse and buggy, so I won't have to worry bout being outsourced. We auto techs are sometimes more educated than damn Doctors, but we don't get the $200K/year, or ability to "Practice" our professions...This thread was opened because the typical "Public" attitude of being ignorant of the facts when it comes to auto repair and dealer Warranties...Go ahead and depend on that dealer "Warranty" folks, it's will get worse before it gets better.

[RallyeMike]

Don't blame the engineers, blame the decision makers at the corporate level.  I don't care what the problem is, it wouldn't have been there if it had been a bigger priority to the OEM to avoid it.  The amount of reliability of a car is purely a choice on the part of the corporation that makes it.  Leonardo DaVinci himself couldn't make a reliable car if the suppliers were cutting too many corners on all the components he specified.  No supplier will ever deliver the quality desired if the OEMs won't pay them enough per car to do it.  

Go back and read it again, because I'm saying the same thing you are. Nowhere do I criticize the Engineers themselves, but what has to be engineered to meet demands. The cars are too complicated to be engineered and built to be problem free, or sometimes easily diagnosed and repaired.

Hence, your Mercedes which has ridiculously unnecessary options, breaks, and it cost a lot of money to fix it.

[BananaDan]

This thread was opened because the typical "Public" attitude of being ignorant of the facts when it comes to auto repair and dealer Warranties...

I've had enough of trying to be nice or trying to have an intelligent mature conversation with you Cooter.  I don't get what has crawled up your ass and gone rotten.

This thread was opened because I had a shitty week at work, and something that has been a thorn in my side for the last 14 months is finally fixed.  It was a Friday night, I had a few brews and felt like ranting.  The thread has continued this downward spiral because you seem to insist on being a shortsighted prick, regardless of people trying to have an adult conversation with you and around you.  Enough already, give it up.  You have a bad attitude and it's over.

The only fact that matters is I was smart enough to buy an extended warranty, which means I DON'T PAY FOR SHIT.  Period, end of story.  It also means the dealer fixes my shit, end of story.  That contract was sealed with multiple signatures and an exchange of money.  If one party doesn't live up to their side of an agreed contract, the other party has a right to have an issue, or to take action.  It seems to me that your issue is with warranties and their existence, so take that up with the companies that sell them.  I know MB parts are expensive, that's why I got the f'n warranty jackass.

Sorry for all of the grown up talk.  If this was confusing, I'll draw it in a cartoon for you.

[Lennard]

Sorry for all of the grown up talk.  If this was confusing, I'll draw it in a cartoon for you.

[Darkman]

I'd take a German "POS" (even a Hyundai - Korean POS) over ANY American built car (even Australian for that matter). But you pay for what you get! Look at all the R&D Hyundai has put in their vehicles recently. They have improved massively in the last 10 to 15 years. If only Ford and GM bothered with that kind of R&D, they would probably have hover cars by now. What Mercedes did 10 years ago is only now becoming an option on the rest of the cars. You pay decent money for a decent car. Everybody wants heated seats, electric windows, sat nav, automatic rain sensing wipers, reverse parking sensors because that is what is "the norm" nowadays but only want to pay peanuts for it. If you don't want the hassles of this breaking down, then stick with the reliability of a mid to late 60's car (  ), OR do the smart thing (as what Banana Dan did) and pay extra for the warranty and let it be the dealers problem. Cars break down and there needs to be people to fix them. Mechanics rely on the customer and the customer relies on the mechanic. So IMO there is no need for the attack on a guy who had an issue with a car that (eventually) got fixed, and there is no need for anattack on the poor underpayed tech trying to figure out these complicated pieces of equipment.

Everyone all hug and kiss and make up  (or this thread will get deleted too)

You would all be stuffed if the Charger was designed and built in Germany   

[Tilar]

IF your GOOD at repairing cars, you reserve the "Right" to "Fire" a problem customer that can't be pleased..

That's a pretty arrogant statement Cooter. Do you think it's ok for a shop/mechanic to charge for a repair that didn't fix the problem?

You would all be stuffed if the Charger was designed and built in Germany    

Wrong, I'd be driving an old camaro or nova. I don't buy foreign cars, makes no difference if they are new or used. period. The money still goes back to some foreign country.  I'm not saying they aren't a good product because some of them are, I just won't buy them.

[Cooter]

This thread was opened because the typical "Public" attitude of being ignorant of the facts when it comes to auto repair and dealer Warranties...

I've had enough of trying to be nice or trying to have an intelligent mature conversation with you Cooter.

WTF? You get on here, post about how your German MB can't be fixed, talk about how you "Don't want to offend" any mechanics here", well guess what Muthafuka, you did...

And you call me a "prick"? FUH-Q asswipe and have a nice day....One thing to leave you with, at least I can fix my own cars, instead of getting on here ranting about not getting a repair done when it didn't cost me anything Dumbass....Ok, good to lock thread now...

[440]

Geez, that's gone a bit far hasn't it... 





All put aside I wonder what the manufacture would say if they knew about the cost of 1.5 days labor and a part that's probably well over a grand vs. the cost to diagnose a $.50 connector and 30 minutes of time.  

[BananaDan]

WTF? You get on here, post about how your German MB can't be fixed, talk about how you "Don't want to offend" any mechanics here", well guess what Muthafuka, you did...

And you call me a "prick"? FUH-Q asswipe and have a nice day....One thing to leave you with, at least I can fix my own cars, instead of getting on here ranting about not getting a repair done when it didn't cost me anything Dumbass....Ok, good to lock thread now...

Actually, it is fixed now, pay attention. Letters make words, words make sentences, sentences say things.

I didn't call you a prick, I said you're being a prick. There is a difference. The jury is still out on whether or not you're capable of not being a prick.  That will determine if you actually are a prick or not. I don't want to get you too excited, but so far its looking good. Keep it up!  :-)

[gtx6970]

Wow, this thread sure went to hell in a hatbasket.
Let me see if I can straighten it out some.

One of the problems with todays  buyers market - is designers hear about what the average buyer wants so therefor they desighn cars with all the bells and whistles . But bean counters keeping an eye on the bottom line, cost is paramount. So when venders submit items for said options to exist, the bean counters look at the cheapest one 1st and go up from there,, hopeing the warrenty dept will take care of it IF a problem MIGHT happen down the road during the warrenty period .

Consumers are all about the next widget to keep there buns warm or there glass clean, or turn there lights on  with little to no effort of there own. There for Manufacuers are all about the next great thing, what ever that may be at a particular point in time.

2nd,,, is MOST ( not all ) of said buying public want it at the cheapest price point possible not really caring about the life of said widget. They just want something fancier than what there  neighbors  have.

How a tech gets paid is also  dependant on the dealer. Some dealers care about the techs and want to keep them happy if possibile and within  reason, some techs will never be happy, as will some customers.
Lets face it ,,,you can't make everybody happy. You can try but it's just NOT going to happen.
Next is the customer who comes in and there product is just barely out of warrenty, So wanting to do the good thing . You cover it HOPEING the manufactuer will see the same thing and pay said goodwill warrenty invoice . Lets say they do .  All this time in hopes it nets you a repeat customer for maint work in the end
( it rarely does btw )

Then same customer comes back in again lets say 3 months later with a different and unrelated issue . NOW, said customer demands it be fixed for free as well becuase it wasn't there before and you fixed it for free the last time.Your reply is sorry sir ( or madam ) I can not , your warrenty has expired and the last time was simply a good will repair.

so said customer goes out telling all his friends of how said dealer  will not cover this issue that wasnt there till they touched it the last time..


Todays buying public is all about how cheap is it, how fast can I have it.

In my parents time is was how good is it and how long is it going to last, But, sadly,,,,that mentality is gone in MOST of todays buying public.

[440]

Hence why I only own 5 cars and not one of them is newer than 1977.....