It's fixed, finally.

[BananaDan]

First off, if anyone is a mechanic here I don't mean to offend, but I imagine that the fact that you are on this site you are already more talented than the mechanics I've been dealing with for the past year.  So, the story...

One of my cars is a 2005 Mercedes E500, and it has the bi-xenon motorized/cornering headlights setup.  A little over a year ago we started getting alerts on the heads-up screen that there was an active headlight system failure, bring the car to the dealer.  I bought her CPO in 2008 and negotiated a 3-year full warranty in the purchase, so all of this nonsense hasn't cost me a dime thankfully.  I bring the car in and they tell me that the computer doesn't have any errors logged and the warning isn't coming up then and there for them so there's nothing they can do.  We deal with it intermittently for about 10 months and I get fed up and bring it back.  At this point it was alerting consistently every time you drove the car.  Previously it was doing it only occasionally.

This time they find an error code in the computer and replace the entire driver's side headlight and motor assembly (which required removing the front bumper which surprised me).  They didn't tell me how much this would have cost w/out a warranty, but I can only imagine.  Hell, I had a foglight replaced two years ago that a rock on the highway shattered and it was almost $300.  No more than 10 days after the visit to the shop (about a month ago), the warning starts popping up again only occasionally.  Awesome.  So my wife has today off and sees it this morning and asks me if she should take it to the dealer, I tell her yes.  Screw the appointment, I'm fed up, drive it in there and tell them to fix this finally.  So I talk to them this afternoon after having it all day and they tell me there's nothing in the computer, so they don't know what to do or replace.  I flip on them, basically asking them unless a computer tells you what's wrong with a car are you incapable of fixing anything?  The service advisor didn't like that too much and he assured me he had a tech on the car and they'd keep looking at it and they sent out a tech support call to the MB tech network.  How about doing some basic troubleshooting?

At the end of the day I get the call, it's fixed.  The connector from the harness that plugs into headlight/motor assembly they replaced last month had two loose connections in it.  They had to pull the wires out of the connector, recrimp the terminals on the wires, put them back into the connector and plug it back in.  Now I'm not a mechanic, but I have replaced just about all of the wiring on my Charger and this sounds like some simple crap a highly trained and certified Mercedes tech should be able to figure out.  I mean, this is one of the first things they should have checked.  They found the issue by doing continuity tests.  So basically they'll spend 1.5 days to replace a part that probably costs over $1,000 because a computer told them to when the issue was really .50 cents worth of connectors and maybe 30 minutes of time with a continuity tester and crimpers.  

Don't get me wrong, I love the car.  It's a blast to drive (and I drive her hard), great sportiness, comfort and technology etc...  But these kids that work on them don't hold a candle to the people on this site or my regular mechanic that works on my Jeep and Charger for things that are out of my skill capacity.

Sorry for the rant and novel.  I'm a bottle of wine into the night after a crap week and this incident today with MB service pushed me over the edge.

[FLG]

I think it comes down to the fact cars have gotten so complex its near impossible to troubleshoot without a computer. We have a no start issue on our dinosaurs and its a simple check for spark and fuel...now adays it could be any of dozens of sensors or wires. Transmission issues are no longer easily identifiable, even suspension issues now can be hard to figure out (for example mercedes abc system is a disaster).

it could also be somewhat inability or lazyness...but if I gave u a new car and said "it dosnt start figure it ut without a computer" id imagine even the most skilled mechanics would be scratching there head for the simple fact that they know what *might be wrong but without that tool its very hard to figure out.

Ill take my carburetor, thank you very much.

[xpbprox]

Had a similar problem on my mothers R350. Told us to replace the lights, turned out (well this is what Mercedes said) bad wiring harness, so they replaced the whole damn thing! I'm sure it was expensive but warranty had it covered.

[Tilar]

I don't want to hurt anyones feelings because I've been a mechanic since the early 70's, but I think the term "mechanic" is getting out of date in todays time, Many of them are nothing more than "parts changers".

From my perspective it all boils down to where "mechanics" today have never had to actually diagnose a problem on their own. They've all had a computer or on board system tell them what was wrong with the car (or truck or any piece of equipment nowdays) and if it's a problem the original computer programmer has never encountered, that computer is clueless which in turn leaves a blank stare on many mechanics today because they don't know how to troubleshoot on their own.  No that doesnt apply to all mechanics, but it does to the "parts changers".

Remember, A computer is only as smart as the programmer with the least experience.

[tan top]

I don't want to hurt anyones feelings because I've been a mechanic since the early 70's, but I think the term "mechanic" is getting out of date in todays time, Many of them are nothing more than "parts changers".

From my perspective it all boils down to where "mechanics" today have never had to actually diagnose a problem on their own. They've all had a computer or on board system tell them what was wrong with the car (or truck or any piece of equipment nowdays) and if it's a problem the original computer programmer has never encountered, that computer is clueless which in turn leaves a blank stare on many mechanics today because they don't know how to troubleshoot on their own.  No that doesnt apply to all mechanics, but it does to the "parts changers".

Remember, A computer is only as smart as the programmer with the least experience.

that it true !! was a bout to type something along them lines 

[1969chargerrtse]

We deal with this type of issues on elevators.  If the CPU doesn't tell you what's wrong and it's a simple connection and intermittent, we have spent 10's of thousands in time and parts.  I kid you not.  It always falls in the hands of our adjuster.  He's the real smart guy.  He WILL find the problem.  We had one elevator that we must of spent over 20,000.00 on in time and parts.  We kept doing what the boss or tech support advised.  One day he said, I still think it's this part, and on his own, he ordered the part and the problem is gone.  He is priceless to the company.
I do understand both sides of this story.

[rooks]

From my perspective it all boils down to where "mechanics" today have never had to actually diagnose a problem on their own.

Spot on. That's where the problem lies. With reliance so heavily put on computers, it has come at a cost of hands-on diagnostics.

Mechanics 101 has been replaced by Computers 101.

[Cooter]

First off, Being a "Mechanic" as you guys call it, You guys have any idea how much at a DEALER you get paid on Commission to diag. an electrical problem???
If that electrical problem was found so easy, WTF didn't YOU repair it?? I mean afterall, your evidently smarter than the tech working on your car right?


Obviously, none of you know..otherwise, you'd be thanking your lucky stars you got that overpriced, German, POS car repaired at all...People today simply have gotten used to the idea of "Instant gratification" and being "Ignorant" of the time it actually takes to repair vehicles today.. They simply don't understand why some repairs SEEM as if they weren't "Checked in the first place" and "Repaired correctly the first time"..Yet, these same people will go to a doctor and let him "Guess" at what's wrong with them and "Try" some new fangled pills at $100/pill??

Why is it that when it comes to Medical problems and diagnosing them correctly, the doctor is allowed to guess bout every damn time and "Try" everything, and you NEVER hear anybody say sh*t like "Well, I got a guy down the street that can take out my speen for $200.00, why are you charging me $200K??"

You guys refer to "Hands on" diagnosis?? How many times have I seen a thread/post opened here talking bout how you can't repair your newer car? Can't even SEE the engine let alone work on it?? Why do they make new cars so hard to work on??? And on and on and on.....You guys KNOW how hard these cars are to repair, and you still bi*h about stupid sh*t when you have NO CLUE what you're talking bout...Typical public...I think EVERYBODY who's had a gripe should have to work on these damn things for a year..Then, you wouldn't have the posts like above.....You'd actually understand....

Yet, when it comes to the vehicle you put your family in, you will inevidably go for the cheapest brake pads, cheapest parts/labor you can find, then come back to the shop bit**in about how you got screwed....It's your family for goodness sake...One would think you wouldn't want some reject from the 60's working on your brakes for cheaper, but this isn't the case...

Gents, I'll say this much, you get paid NOTHING, NADA, ZIP, ZERO to diag. electrical problems at a DEALER nowadays with the Manufacturers giving out these f**kin' 100K mile warranties. So, the next time you think you were Done wrong cause you didn't see that extra overtime at your cushy hourly job, just remember, there's a poor "Tech" that got shafted on your Mercedes electrical problem...Do you know HOW to get paid for this and not upset the Manufacturer to where they kick it back and refuse to pay the dealer for electrical problems?
You guessed it, "Handwriting 101"...You punch the damn ticket, then you have to write all this BS you checked by looking up all these connectors and sh*t till you have a "Plausible Scenario" so if checked up on, the manufac. Can actually look it up. All this takes time and when you on commission, you don't have it to waste.

The real kicker here is you guys will be dealing with this more and more as the economy is sh*t and getting paid for 25 Hours and being there for over 40/week isn't cool anymore so all the dealers have left are "Kids" that can surely install a fart cannon on a Honda, but cannot diag. your Mercedes.

Another thing to remember, it isn't like it was 60 years ago..Most "Techs" you see working for Mercedes? Ask them where they were BEFORE coming there and you'll most likely get a response like "Walmart changin' oil".....Just because they wear the label on their shirt, doesn't mean they have been a tech at that dealer for 25 years and know every nook a cranny when cars change by the month being that the average public just has to have all this BULLSH*T ON THE NEWER CARS...From intertaining their little Badass kids with a movie, to pluggin' in to the internet, to a realtime roadmap sitting in the center of the damn dashboard...


Wake up fellas, it's gonna get worse when there just ain't no more guys willing to even TRY and please the unpleasible American Public working on their cars.
You guys think it's bad now, give it 10 years..........NOBODYwants to work on cars any longer because of the responses above. I refer to people bit*hin like above as the "Three B's".... "I didn't BUY it, BUILD it, OR BREAK it.."

[xpbprox]

NOBODYwants to work on cars any longer because of the responses above. I refer to people bit*hin like above as the "Three B's".... "I didn't BUY it, BUILD it, OR BREAK it.."

As far as mechanics not wanting to work on peoples cars, I'd say it depends on where you work at. I would think working at the dealership doing warranty work is probably more of a pain in the ass then just working at a non-dealership mechanic shop.
I still want to work on cars and I didn't get offended by his response to his situation. The work force of this world has had a serious attitude change from beck then. They feel like just because they showed up to work today and gave a half ass performance, that they are entitled to a pay check. No more accountability just laziness. no doubt the attitude of the consumer has changed too, they have become ignorant and reliant on services. Just my tangent thoughts.

[Mike DC]

I think it comes down to the fact cars have gotten so complex its near impossible to troubleshoot without a computer. We have a no start issue on our dinosaurs and its a simple check for spark and fuel...now adays it could be any of dozens of sensors or wires. Transmission issues are no longer easily identifiable, even suspension issues now can be hard to figure out (for example mercedes abc system is a disaster).

it could also be somewhat inability or lazyness...but if I gave u a new car and said "it dosnt start figure it ut without a computer" id imagine even the most skilled mechanics would be scratching there head for the simple fact that they know what *might be wrong but without that tool its very hard to figure out.

Ill take my carburetor, thank you very much.

I agree with this sentiment.  I don't blame the mechanics so much as the unnecessarily-complicated vehicles.  

Look at the computer industry - who "repairs" a laptop?  That's not how it works.  If something mechanical is broken, then they will find out about it at least partially (if not entirely) through computer diagnostics.  Then the tech himself will change out a subassembly or major component.  He won't be in there with a soldering iron fixing something manually.  Time/money/parts/design have moved that industry away from that way of operating.  

Cars are headed the same way, where the repair guys are changing out larger & larger parts of the car rather than trying to manually "repair" anything.  It still takes skills & brains to do this kind of work.  But the emphasis will fall more & more on the brains part and less on the manual repairing skills.

[RallyeMike]

Jeez Coot, I don't think you'll find too many people here looking you up in the yellow pages for work    

Some techs are good, some are not. Some shops are good, some are not. It's been that way since the beginning of time. You throw in the fact that cars now are extremely complicated, and that people expect all that complicated crap to work, even the best shops are going to be challenged in dealing with technical issues and hiring people who want/are able to deal with them. Probably most of the people on this board, as smart as they are don't have what it takes to be a good tech with the challenges of these new cars.

How many of the gadgets that manufacturers are piling on these cars are really necessary? Guess what gang, when the warranty expires it will be your problem, and you can expect to be frustrated and clean out your wallet because that is what the car-buying public demanded, and that is what the car companies have sold us. 

[TK73]

Hey Coot, try some decaf...   

[TK73]

First off, Being a "Mechanic" ...

What I'm hearing is there is no real motivation to find a problem that is "off the books" on a warranty.  Just bill what you can within the limits of what the dealer says will get paid?  That is until the customer yells loud enough after 3-4 trips.

Damn shame the manufactures have screwed the little guy with the badge.  They figured out what really counts to their "bottom line".

[BananaDan]

I don't want to hurt anyones feelings because I've been a mechanic since the early 70's, but I think the term "mechanic" is getting out of date in todays time, Many of them are nothing more than "parts changers".

From my perspective it all boils down to where "mechanics" today have never had to actually diagnose a problem on their own. They've all had a computer or on board system tell them what was wrong with the car (or truck or any piece of equipment nowdays) and if it's a problem the original computer programmer has never encountered, that computer is clueless which in turn leaves a blank stare on many mechanics today because they don't know how to troubleshoot on their own.  No that doesnt apply to all mechanics, but it does to the "parts changers".

Remember, A computer is only as smart as the programmer with the least experience.

This is what I'm talking about.  My local mechanic is awesome.  Yes it costs good money to use him, but he knows his shit, always fixes the problem and is trustworthy.  My Benz would be with him if it weren't still under warranty.  It's the dealer techs, the dealer's service program and the manufacturer all combined together that leads to it taking a year and who knows how much wasted time and money on their end to fix two bad connections.  In the end they really lost on it due to the way they handle warranty repair policies.

Coot,
If I understood your rant correctly and those techs don't get paid overtime for stuff like this, I have a bigger issue with dealers than I had thought.  A man should always get paid for work he does, and if he isn't he has legal options or options with his union if he's in one.  I never said I was smarter than them, and if I were capable of fixing it I would have done it myself.  Relax.  My issue is with the scenario that has lasted over a year, not with all dealer mechanics/techs in the known universe.  I work in computers and like this industry there are good techs and bad techs, people that can diagnose an issue with troubleshooting and those that can't and just always call/ask for help.  My issue primarily was on visit #1 they flat out wouldn't touch the car because according to the computer, the car was fine.  Screw me, I must be imagining it.  Second visit they spent 1.5 days to replace a very expensive part that had to be flown in from Germany, taking half of the front end of the car apart to do it.  Problem not fixed.  Third visit they don't want to touch it again because again, according to the computer, nothing is wrong.  I tell them BS and get in there and troubleshoot the problem.  Less than an hour later, it's fixed.  I don't agree with they way it was handled and how I was jerked around.  If you think I'm a whiny bitch for that, then so be it.  I have little to no tolerance for wasted time or money.

[bill440rt]

The customer nowadays doesn't give a rats ass how you're getting paid and for what. They just want their car fixed correctly, and the first time. Like it or not, it is the customer who's supplying your paycheck.

I went thru a similar scenario with my last Ram. The dealer couldn't really diagnose the problem (all was under warranty, so why should I be the one to chase it??), so they just threw whatever parts at it the "computer" told them was wrong with it. Same problem, over & over & over again repeatedly. They never did fix it, & it went back as a lemon. My hunch is that they weren't competent enough to REALLY find out what the problem was.

Dan, you have a legit gripe. All the tech had to do was look at the connector and/or test it.
And, I can attest for Dan that he has higher mechanical skills than the "typical public".

[Mike DC]

 
150 years ago, I'm sure there were older generation blacksmiths griping about how "these kids today can't even make their own tools anymore." 

Time marches on and technology advances.  People used to be able to make their own wagon wheels by cutting down trees right there at the site of the breakdown.  Now we consider a guy a wheel expert if he can straighten an existing bent rim with existing tools.  On the other hand, the new guy also knows how to balance a rim perfectly.  He may also understand how to spray several stages of urethane paint to refinish it.  Etc.  The guy chopping down trees for a wagon wheel in the 1800s couldn't have done any of that other hi-tech stuff. 

Every time period demands its own skill set.  Most people are skilled in some areas but nobody is skilled in all of them.  There has never been any shortage of unskilled incompetent morons in any age either. 

[resq302]

First off, if anyone is a mechanic here I don't mean to offend, but I imagine that the fact that you are on this site you are already more talented than the mechanics I've been dealing with for the past year.  So, the story...

One of my cars is a 2005 Mercedes E500, and it has the bi-xenon motorized/cornering headlights setup.  A little over a year ago we started getting alerts on the heads-up screen that there was an active headlight system failure, bring the car to the dealer.  I bought her CPO in 2008 and negotiated a 3-year full warranty in the purchase, so all of this nonsense hasn't cost me a dime thankfully.  I bring the car in and they tell me that the computer doesn't have any errors logged and the warning isn't coming up then and there for them so there's nothing they can do.  We deal with it intermittently for about 10 months and I get fed up and bring it back.  At this point it was alerting consistently every time you drove the car.  Previously it was doing it only occasionally.

This time they find an error code in the computer and replace the entire driver's side headlight and motor assembly (which required removing the front bumper which surprised me).  They didn't tell me how much this would have cost w/out a warranty, but I can only imagine.  Hell, I had a foglight replaced two years ago that a rock on the highway shattered and it was almost $300.  No more than 10 days after the visit to the shop (about a month ago), the warning starts popping up again only occasionally.  Awesome.  So my wife has today off and sees it this morning and asks me if she should take it to the dealer, I tell her yes.  Screw the appointment, I'm fed up, drive it in there and tell them to fix this finally.  So I talk to them this afternoon after having it all day and they tell me there's nothing in the computer, so they don't know what to do or replace.  I flip on them, basically asking them unless a computer tells you what's wrong with a car are you incapable of fixing anything?  The service advisor didn't like that too much and he assured me he had a tech on the car and they'd keep looking at it and they sent out a tech support call to the MB tech network.  How about doing some basic troubleshooting?

At the end of the day I get the call, it's fixed.  The connector from the harness that plugs into headlight/motor assembly they replaced last month had two loose connections in it.  They had to pull the wires out of the connector, recrimp the terminals on the wires, put them back into the connector and plug it back in.  Now I'm not a mechanic, but I have replaced just about all of the wiring on my Charger and this sounds like some simple crap a highly trained and certified Mercedes tech should be able to figure out.  I mean, this is one of the first things they should have checked.  They found the issue by doing continuity tests.  So basically they'll spend 1.5 days to replace a part that probably costs over $1,000 because a computer told them to when the issue was really .50 cents worth of connectors and maybe 30 minutes of time with a continuity tester and crimpers.  

Don't get me wrong, I love the car.  It's a blast to drive (and I drive her hard), great sportiness, comfort and technology etc...  But these kids that work on them don't hold a candle to the people on this site or my regular mechanic that works on my Jeep and Charger for things that are out of my skill capacity.

Sorry for the rant and novel.  I'm a bottle of wine into the night after a crap week and this incident today with MB service pushed me over the edge.

Dan,

I agree with you.  I have had issues to go back to a dealer because of a knocking in my engine only because the mechanic there did not want to get involved with the lenghty process of ripping apart my engine to replace a cam phaser in my 05 Ford F150 engine.  Well, my 2007 is now knocking with the same noise and it is under the basic power train warranty.  Its going back there again!  I agree with the theory that if they don't get a code "there is nothing wrong".  I had that with my 05 and my  07 is doing the same thing.  No codes but the engine is knocking.  I guess that knock is supposed to be there now when it hasn't been there for the past 30,000 miles.

[resq302]

I think it comes down to the fact cars have gotten so complex its near impossible to troubleshoot without a computer. We have a no start issue on our dinosaurs and its a simple check for spark and fuel...now adays it could be any of dozens of sensors or wires. Transmission issues are no longer easily identifiable, even suspension issues now can be hard to figure out (for example mercedes abc system is a disaster).

it could also be somewhat inability or lazyness...but if I gave u a new car and said "it dosnt start figure it ut without a computer" id imagine even the most skilled mechanics would be scratching there head for the simple fact that they know what *might be wrong but without that tool its very hard to figure out.

Ill take my carburetor, thank you very much.

Frank,

this is why I like working on my antique cars so much.

[Cooter]

The customer nowadays doesn't give a rats ass how you're getting paid and for what. They just want their car fixed correctly, and the first time. Like it or not, it is the customer who's supplying your paycheck.

:

And this is why OUR shop is set up to tell "Customers" like you to go straight to hell with that kind of attitude. This is the "un-understanding" side of things that makes me wish some of you worked on cars for about a year...You wouldn't have that attitude very long..My Bossman told me not to even try to explain this as NON E would give a sh*t...Damn, I hate when he's right....Contrary to popular belief, the Customer is NOT always right..Most are idiots looking for someone to blame for them buying a German POS car....You bought that POS Dan, now either live with Mechanics that don't want/need/can't work on it, or trade the damn thing off....

[gtx6970]

Having been a dealer tech for well over 25 years. I will say..

MOST of the problem is manufacturers today will make it extremly difficult to get paid for non fault code diagnostics,,IF they pay for it at all. So there for the desire to spend hours on a job to get paid for maybe 20% of the actual time it took  time after time it takes the wind out of your sail. . I will say after the tech gets kicked in the balls over and over and over , his desire to do the right thing gets shoved down farther and farther over the years. And to get the most of  clock time diagnostics paid you have to write a novel in hopes you get most of it back. Sorry, I'm a tech NOT an author. And guess what ,,,,,,'clocked off' time writing said novel is on the tech and is non payable time.

One of my former Serv managers would just let the serv dept eat it should it get charged back instead of charging it back to the tech  involved.

BUT , my most recent serv mgr was a mindless bumbling idiot with no balls what so ever that could barely tell a headlight from a tail light and was more than happy to stick it to the tech every chance he got. HE is the main  reason I now work for myself.

Finding a  problem with NOTHING but the owners word 'something isn't right',,,And yes believe me ,,, it happens,,,, hundreds of times .  If I had a quarter for every car that came in the shop with something wrong that was eventually traced to owner malfunction and I would be rich .


.And Dan thats not what I'm saying is the problem here

[Cooter]

Well, Finally, someone who's been there and done that....TOTALLY understand Bill....


And Dan, don't even get me started on POS BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, Audi, Porche, Some Vw's, and the like that are Stated and have the reputation to go "Forever", but people will buy the WRECKED and put back together cars off the used up lot, then bring it in with all kinds of things like Air Bag modules that were NOT replaced at the time of the wreck and need for the light and bags to work properly...THIS burns me up, because the poor tech gets blamed for NOT diagnosing it for FREE as they can "Go down the street to autoAone/advance auto and get it scanned for free"....the bodyshop/adjutyser for the insurance didn't do his job either, but I see no bitchin' bout that one?

Wonder why if 99% of ALL used cars are wrecks people will put their families in these everyday, but they see one Wreck of a 1968 Charger being sold on the internet for big bucks($20K) and pick it apart like there's no tomorrow?

[bull]

The customer nowadays doesn't give a rats ass how you're getting paid and for what. They just want their car fixed correctly, and the first time. Like it or not, it is the customer who's supplying your paycheck.

:

And this is why OUR shop is set up to tell "Customers" like you to go straight to hell with that kind of attitude. This is the "un-understanding" side of things that makes me wish some of you worked on cars for about a year...You wouldn't have that attitude very long..My Bossman told me not to even try to explain this as NON E would give a sh*t...Damn, I hate when he's right....Contrary to popular belief, the Customer is NOT always right..Most are idiots looking for someone to blame for them buying a German POS car....You bought that POS Dan, now either live with Mechanics that don't want/need/can't work on it, or trade the damn thing off....

Speaking of pills...

[Tigger]

Well heres my  . Been with Chrysler for 10 years now, from the techs point of view, i do want to try to diagnose and fix the customers vehicle on the first visit and quickly as possible. Let me explain how flat rate techs for Chrysler get paid under warranty. For example, if your vehicle needs a short block replacement under warranty Chrysler will pay the dealer 7 hours to replace that short block. Now if the tech thinks he is been screwed by the amount Chrysler is paying, Under franchise agreement the dealer can pay the tech more to compensate. A short block is like 10 to 12 hours to replace. No dealership will pay their techs more to fix and vehicle under warranty. Chrysler has a fixed amount of time to repair every part of the vehicle. Electrical is the absolute worst paying under warranty.

A HUGE problem trying to find a intermittent problem is the diagnostic procedure from Chysler (or any car manufacturer). The engineers themselves don't know all the possible problems or conditions that could occur. There are no two vehicles built the same, too many options and drivetrain variations. If the concern is intermittent at the time of the vehicle being serviced and cannot be duplicated, what do you want the tech to do. Fix it? fix what? do you want us to throw parts at it? Take and educated guess?
Believe me, most techs who have a mortgage and a family want to fix the customers vehicle, our families depend on us and you the repeat customer. There are beltway bandits at dealerships and rotate in and out. But that is with any occupation.

I want YOUR business, even if its warranty, because i need a confident customer to keep returning long after the warranty runs out.



I agree 100% with gtx6970, after repeatedly getting beat down from Chrysler, the service managers, and customers who believes everything should be fixed in 20 minutes and not cost anything wears a tech down. The tech gets penalized for trying to care and does not see the financial satisfaction for doing so.

This my opinion of how a dealership should be set up. If the dealership has 10 techs, 3 should be paid a salary to deal with the no starts, intermittent conditions, the i have a squeak at 85 mph while slamming on my brakes. The other seven techs can do the other stuff like maintance and recalls and other warranty issues.

Most dealerships have a shopforeman for this< and he is usually backed up for days.

I know for most, dealerships leave a bad taste in your mouths, but there are techs in each and everydealer ship who care, but system is not set up to care. This is not the techs fault, just caught in the middle of corporate greed and and a instant gratification public.

[Tilar]

Having been a dealer tech for well over 25 years. I will say..

MOST of the problem is manufacturers today will make it extremly difficult to get paid for non fault code diagnostics,,IF they pay for it at all.

This goes hand in hand exactly with what I said above:

and if it's a problem the original computer programmer has never encountered, that computer is clueless which in turn leaves a blank stare on many mechanics today because they don't know how to troubleshoot on their own.  No that doesnt apply to all mechanics, but it does to the "parts changers".

Remember, A computer is only as smart as the programmer with the least experience.

Cooter, I do understand that there are still a FEW real honest to God mechanics out there that know what they are doing, so don't take it so personal. Remember, there are quite a number of us on this site that have been going down that road a long time. It won't be very long that 40 years ago will mark when I took my first mechanic job.

[General_01]

This is why I only go to dealers with warranty issues. Otherwise I find competent mechanics who are not like Cooter. Take your own advise Cooter. If he should "live with his German POS or sell it" maybe you should "do your job or get out". All you ever do is bitch about customers. It's totally a miracle that you get any business at all with your attitude towards the people who pay your income.

[BananaDan]

Just some facts, I'm not going to add any fuel to your fire Coot.  I think if we were both bumped up to a bar with beers in our hands having this conversation it would be much calmer.

1. I bought the car from Ray Catena Mercedes Benz in NJ, one of the longest existing and well known MB dealers in the NY/NJ metro area.  It was a 2005, I bought it in 2008 off of a three year lease with 14,000 miles on it.  It was CPO, meaning they inspect it and stand behind it as a new one, and I added a 3-year extended warranty from them on top of that.  I didn't buy this car from Bob's Used Cars in Newark and get my warranty from the jerkoff that calls my house every week on Saturday nights from some telemarketing office.  It is well cared for and maintained as it is supposed to be according to the owner's manual and their warranty policy.  Since it is under warranty, only MB techs have ever touched this car, I have it's service receipts for its entire life.

2. The car itself is what was reporting the problem, not me.  The heads-up screen would constantly nag me with the alert/warning about the headlight system.  Ironically, it would say "Active headlamp system failure, bring car to dealer".  So I did.  They saw the alert/error on the screen every time I was there and confirmed to me yes, we see the alert.  But the computer isn't reporting any logged messages.

3. As far as a POS, well, to each their own brother.  I have owned 6 cars in my life not counting my Charger, all US made.  This car is by far the finest made, high performing, comfortable, technology packed piece of engineered bliss I have ever had the pleasure of owning.  It is a blast to drive.  I do agree with you on something though, I think Lexus is crap also.  I test drove an Audi A4 and a Saab once and didn't like them either.  I have never driven any of the other European cars.  The only thing I don't like about the car is I can't work on it except for basic stuff like oil changes and brake changes, but most modern cars are getting like that. Everything is so hidden or packed in there you just can't get to anything.

[BananaDan]

Well Bill and Tigger, thanks for the lesson on how dealerships work.  I didn't know that the manufacturer screws the dealerships like that, and the dealerships pass that screwing down onto the techs?  Sounds like a load of bullshit to me.  I have to say though, I prefer taking my car to the dealer because I have the sense of comfort that it is being worked on by people that are supposed to know it best.  It now pisses me off that the guy that finally fixed my car possibly didn't get paid for it?  I don't see how that is legal.

Either way though, as an honest paying customer, I still had a gripe and I still feel it was legitimate.  Although me having a gripe doesn't mean the tech that finally fixed the problem shouldn't have gotten paid for doing the job.  That is messed up.

[Tigger]

The dealership is another world compared to an independent shop (good and bad).  As far as the tech not being paid to fix the electrical connector on your vehicle, he did get paid, but not for the time he had put into it. Can you imagine if it was a 40 pin or 60 pin connector, how long it would take to repair. Not to mention if he could get clear access to it. I'm not trying to cover for the guy, but if you ever get the chance to view an engine or body harness for these new vehicles, you wonder how cars actually don't falter more often.

A couple of WTF situations that you wonder how long did it take to figure it out.

On the LX charger platform, there was a concern of the trunk subwoofer intermittently thumping. The fix was to update the software in the SUNROOF module. Now how long do you think it took the engies to figure that one out. How long you think a tech is gonna try to find that solution. The dealership does not get all technical info on the vehicles from the engies. This is a sore spot among Chrysler techs. I guess its on a need to know basis.

Second wtf, i believe it was on 05 Rams(don't know what configuration), coming to a stop it would intermittently cut off. The fix was to replace pads and rotors. The reason being was the harmonic resinace would go through the abs sensor to the abs module and bring down communications on the buss. Now i don't care if who you are, you will not figure that out at a dealership.

I personally believe that independent shops usuall are better diagnostically than dealership because of limited access to technical info. Having said that we are hit up frequently form the indes for suggestions on where to look for a problem if their stumped.

Honestly, technology is way a head of trainging  and diagnosis. Too many and frequent changes to systems to give the customer the latest and greatest. How can a car manufacturer have teams of engineers to design only one platform and be experts at it, when technicians have to learn perhaps 10 different platforms with only one to two days of training for a particular platform on a particular subject like a/c or engines , or airbags. Very rarely systems overlap from platform to platform.

It is a losing battle and the ranks at the dealership are not being filled by quality personnel. No one is willing to lose their ass for two years just to get caught  up and certified. On top of that, the more your certified the more warranty work you get cause you are qualified to do it. It pays to be stupid. Don't forget the 15 to 20k in tools you will have to invest for the first five years.

I personally believe that the last techs are in their early 30's and the newest crop of techs and in their late teens to early 20's that want to be shown what to do instead of cracking open the service manual.

THIS IS MY OBSERVATION , NOTHING MORE

[green69rt]

I have to throw my two cents in on this.  Remember the days when a manufacturer produced the same car with a few upgrades like disc brakes or rear seat belts for several years in a row??  Now EVERY year is bigger and better, more power (ok, I like it) more gadgets, more options and most of all more electronics that get shoved into your car even if you don't want it or like it.  Think about the 2 gen Charger, lasted for three years and a lot a of parts swaped between them.   I have a 2005 Chevy Colorado, the next year the engine changed.  Not much but enough to make some of the parts year specific!!  This is a big reason that I would consider an older 60's or 70's dodge as my next car. 

New technology is great and I like it but don't make me buy it if I don't want it!!!

Ok, I've started ranting so I'll shut up now.

[Silver R/T]

That's why I prefer older cars (90's) they're easier to work on. They come up with more complicated technology to charge customer at the dealership. this way an average do-it-yourself guy wouldn't be able to do at home.

[Mike DC]

On the LX charger platform, there was a concern of the trunk subwoofer intermittently thumping. The fix was to update the software in the SUNROOF module.

The next time someone asks me why I don't wanna be a mechanic for a living since I like cars so much, I think I'll tell them this anecdote.

[resq302]

Thats just the reason why I would rather not buy a new car today.  You get things that you don't want or need.  If you wanted heated leather seats, you had to get navigation or some other stupid option that has absolutely nothing to do with another.  If you want bucket seats, you have to get a sunroof which costs more than the bucket seat option or get  the upgraded 20" rims.  Its not like our antiques where you can climb into the engine compartment and have a seat and work on your car.  Today everything is covered by plastic housings and other crap that is burried.  My mothers 03 Sebring convertible with the V6, in order to change out the rear 3 spark plugs, you have to remove the intake manifold.  What brainiac designed that engine?

[Cooter]

Yet, when given the choice to either buy that hard to work on V6 that gets 30 MPG or your old skool big block getting 11 MPG, you go for the Hard to work on cars every time...Amazing how that works huh?

[jb666]

I think it comes down to the fact cars have gotten so complex its near impossible to troubleshoot without a computer. We have a no start issue on our dinosaurs and its a simple check for spark and fuel...now adays it could be any of dozens of sensors or wires. Transmission issues are no longer easily identifiable, even suspension issues now can be hard to figure out (for example mercedes abc system is a disaster).

it could also be somewhat inability or lazyness...but if I gave u a new car and said "it dosnt start figure it ut without a computer" id imagine even the most skilled mechanics would be scratching there head for the simple fact that they know what *might be wrong but without that tool its very hard to figure out.

Ill take my carburetor, thank you very much.

Funny you'd say that ,Frank... You know the tuning fun I've had this season... A carb never looked better 

[RallyeMike]

THIS IS MY OBSERVATION , NOTHING MORE

Tigger - It's good to hear a rational voice from the tech side.

I've had more than glimpse of what you are describing. I've had two newer Mopars that were complete lemons, and the dealers could not fix them (95 Neon, 07 Ram CTD) despite repeated attempts. If you are Chrysler tech, I'm sure you are aware of the issues these vehicles had. It was pretty clear that the engineering was bad, the dealers were under a lot of strain bandaging things up with poor support and unreasonable demands from the factory. Throw in customers that are treated poorly by other shops and the percentage of customers that are idiots, and you've got a difficult environment to work in.

The cars are way too complicated and the engineering is being taxed by the competition in the market, consumer demands, and regulation. Simply looking at it, if you have a 1% failure rate and there are a 100 things to fail, things are looking pretty good. Apply the same rate to 1000 things and lots of things will need to be fixed. I don't think it's a stretch to say cars are 10x more complicated today than they were 30 years ago.

[Khyron]

Remember, A computer is only as smart as the programmer with the least experience.

best quote ever, I will be using this often at my shop :-)

[resq302]

Yet, when given the choice to either buy that hard to work on V6 that gets 30 MPG or your old skool big block getting 11 MPG, you go for the Hard to work on cars every time...Amazing how that works huh?

There are two reasons why I would get a new car.  1)cheaper and less time consuming in the long run to purchase a new car than to totally go over and restore an old pick up truck.  2) full warranty that can have someone else deal with the problems and let them fix it while I get a free loaner car.  Having two young kids and a house that needs work, my time is very limited.  If I had all the time and money in the world, you bet I would redo an old dodge step side pick up truck or a power wagon!  However, in reality, it is more economical and cost effective for me to get a new car.  And yes, I still think that all new cars are built like crap as today is a "throw away market" vs. years ago when stuff was built to last!

[Mike DC]

I've had more than glimpse of what you are describing. I've had two newer Mopars that were complete lemons, and the dealers could not fix them (95 Neon, 07 Ram CTD) despite repeated attempts. If you are Chrysler tech, I'm sure you are aware of the issues these vehicles had. It was pretty clear that the engineering was bad, the dealers were under a lot of strain bandaging things up with poor support and unreasonable demands from the factory. Throw in customers that are treated poorly by other shops and the percentage of customers that are idiots, and you've got a difficult environment to work in.

The cars are way too complicated and the engineering is being taxed by the competition in the market, consumer demands, and regulation. Simply looking at it, if you have a 1% failure rate and there are a 100 things to fail, things are looking pretty good. Apply the same rate to 1000 things and lots of things will need to be fixed. I don't think it's a stretch to say cars are 10x more complicated today than they were 30 years ago.

Don't blame the engineers, blame the decision makers at the corporate level.  I don't care what the problem is, it wouldn't have been there if it had been a bigger priority to the OEM to avoid it.  The amount of reliability of a car is purely a choice on the part of the corporation that makes it.  Leonardo DaVinci himself couldn't make a reliable car if the suppliers were cutting too many corners on all the components he specified.  No supplier will ever deliver the quality desired if the OEMs won't pay them enough per car to do it.   

[bill440rt]

The customer nowadays doesn't give a rats ass how you're getting paid and for what. They just want their car fixed correctly, and the first time. Like it or not, it is the customer who's supplying your paycheck.

:

And this is why OUR shop is set up to tell "Customers" like you to go straight to hell with that kind of attitude. This is the "un-understanding" side of things that makes me wish some of you worked on cars for about a year...You wouldn't have that attitude very long..

I honestly don't know what your personal beef is on me, Cooter. My comment about today's customers is pretty much a blanket statement that can be applied to ALL businesses nowadays. Like it or not, today's customers DO NOT CARE about anything except getting a quality product at a good price and FAST. This affects all businesses from the auto mechanic, to restaurants, or even to the guy on the corner selling hot dogs. I mean, if you went to the same hot dog guy for three times and your order was fucked up all three times AND he treated you like shit on top of it, would you keep buying hot dogs from him?? Didn't think so.
No where did I ever say the customer is ALWAYS right, heck even I've been wrong before. EVERYONE has. But look at business today. They are constantly changing to meet the demands & needs of today's customer. The economy sucks. If businesses today don't cater to their customers, they're gonzo.

[Cooter]

The customer nowadays doesn't give a rats ass how you're getting paid and for what. They just want their car fixed correctly, and the first time. Like it or not, it is the customer who's supplying your paycheck.

:

And this is why OUR shop is set up to tell "Customers" like you to go straight to hell with that kind of attitude. This is the "un-understanding" side of things that makes me wish some of you worked on cars for about a year...You wouldn't have that attitude very long..

I honestly don't know what your personal beef is on me, Cooter. I just call it like I see it..NOTHING in your post told me that was a "General" abservation....Looked like it was directed directly at me...Actually, I was thinkin' the same thing about while back when you decided that I'd be the one you decided needed to be evidently be told very rudely your opinion, but it is irrellevant now. If businesses today don't cater to their customers, they're gonzo.I really think you believe this, but you and I already know this is not the case when your GOOD, or the ONLY ONE supplying the needed "Niche" market..Why how many times have I seen people say things like "Well, he/she's a d*ckhead, but what are you gonna do, he/she's the only one that has it?", or "Well, if it weren't for the fact I know my junk will be repaired correctly, I wouldn't ever go back to he/she"....IF your GOOD at repairing cars, you reserve the "Right" to "Fire" a problem customer that can't be pleased.. I mean, a while back Wal-Mart was hiring illeagal aliens and is KNOWN to carry sh*t made in China..All the "Buy American" ranting don't mean a hill-o-beans come time for you to go grocery shopping....Yep, your at Wally World every time Why? I mean principles are nice and all, but when it comes right down to it your spending there cause it's freakin' cheap, not because of who they are hiring or what they are selling and from where. Bottom line is this....People will never go back to horse and buggy, so I won't have to worry bout being outsourced. We auto techs are sometimes more educated than damn Doctors, but we don't get the $200K/year, or ability to "Practice" our professions...This thread was opened because the typical "Public" attitude of being ignorant of the facts when it comes to auto repair and dealer Warranties...Go ahead and depend on that dealer "Warranty" folks, it's will get worse before it gets better.

[RallyeMike]

Don't blame the engineers, blame the decision makers at the corporate level.  I don't care what the problem is, it wouldn't have been there if it had been a bigger priority to the OEM to avoid it.  The amount of reliability of a car is purely a choice on the part of the corporation that makes it.  Leonardo DaVinci himself couldn't make a reliable car if the suppliers were cutting too many corners on all the components he specified.  No supplier will ever deliver the quality desired if the OEMs won't pay them enough per car to do it.  

Go back and read it again, because I'm saying the same thing you are. Nowhere do I criticize the Engineers themselves, but what has to be engineered to meet demands. The cars are too complicated to be engineered and built to be problem free, or sometimes easily diagnosed and repaired.

Hence, your Mercedes which has ridiculously unnecessary options, breaks, and it cost a lot of money to fix it.

[BananaDan]

This thread was opened because the typical "Public" attitude of being ignorant of the facts when it comes to auto repair and dealer Warranties...

I've had enough of trying to be nice or trying to have an intelligent mature conversation with you Cooter.  I don't get what has crawled up your ass and gone rotten.

This thread was opened because I had a shitty week at work, and something that has been a thorn in my side for the last 14 months is finally fixed.  It was a Friday night, I had a few brews and felt like ranting.  The thread has continued this downward spiral because you seem to insist on being a shortsighted prick, regardless of people trying to have an adult conversation with you and around you.  Enough already, give it up.  You have a bad attitude and it's over.

The only fact that matters is I was smart enough to buy an extended warranty, which means I DON'T PAY FOR SHIT.  Period, end of story.  It also means the dealer fixes my shit, end of story.  That contract was sealed with multiple signatures and an exchange of money.  If one party doesn't live up to their side of an agreed contract, the other party has a right to have an issue, or to take action.  It seems to me that your issue is with warranties and their existence, so take that up with the companies that sell them.  I know MB parts are expensive, that's why I got the f'n warranty jackass.

Sorry for all of the grown up talk.  If this was confusing, I'll draw it in a cartoon for you.

[Lennard]

Sorry for all of the grown up talk.  If this was confusing, I'll draw it in a cartoon for you.

[Darkman]

I'd take a German "POS" (even a Hyundai - Korean POS) over ANY American built car (even Australian for that matter). But you pay for what you get! Look at all the R&D Hyundai has put in their vehicles recently. They have improved massively in the last 10 to 15 years. If only Ford and GM bothered with that kind of R&D, they would probably have hover cars by now. What Mercedes did 10 years ago is only now becoming an option on the rest of the cars. You pay decent money for a decent car. Everybody wants heated seats, electric windows, sat nav, automatic rain sensing wipers, reverse parking sensors because that is what is "the norm" nowadays but only want to pay peanuts for it. If you don't want the hassles of this breaking down, then stick with the reliability of a mid to late 60's car (  ), OR do the smart thing (as what Banana Dan did) and pay extra for the warranty and let it be the dealers problem. Cars break down and there needs to be people to fix them. Mechanics rely on the customer and the customer relies on the mechanic. So IMO there is no need for the attack on a guy who had an issue with a car that (eventually) got fixed, and there is no need for anattack on the poor underpayed tech trying to figure out these complicated pieces of equipment.

Everyone all hug and kiss and make up  (or this thread will get deleted too)

You would all be stuffed if the Charger was designed and built in Germany   

[Tilar]

IF your GOOD at repairing cars, you reserve the "Right" to "Fire" a problem customer that can't be pleased..

That's a pretty arrogant statement Cooter. Do you think it's ok for a shop/mechanic to charge for a repair that didn't fix the problem?

You would all be stuffed if the Charger was designed and built in Germany    

Wrong, I'd be driving an old camaro or nova. I don't buy foreign cars, makes no difference if they are new or used. period. The money still goes back to some foreign country.  I'm not saying they aren't a good product because some of them are, I just won't buy them.

[Cooter]

This thread was opened because the typical "Public" attitude of being ignorant of the facts when it comes to auto repair and dealer Warranties...

I've had enough of trying to be nice or trying to have an intelligent mature conversation with you Cooter.

WTF? You get on here, post about how your German MB can't be fixed, talk about how you "Don't want to offend" any mechanics here", well guess what Muthafuka, you did...

And you call me a "prick"? FUH-Q asswipe and have a nice day....One thing to leave you with, at least I can fix my own cars, instead of getting on here ranting about not getting a repair done when it didn't cost me anything Dumbass....Ok, good to lock thread now...

[440]

Geez, that's gone a bit far hasn't it... 





All put aside I wonder what the manufacture would say if they knew about the cost of 1.5 days labor and a part that's probably well over a grand vs. the cost to diagnose a $.50 connector and 30 minutes of time.  

[BananaDan]

WTF? You get on here, post about how your German MB can't be fixed, talk about how you "Don't want to offend" any mechanics here", well guess what Muthafuka, you did...

And you call me a "prick"? FUH-Q asswipe and have a nice day....One thing to leave you with, at least I can fix my own cars, instead of getting on here ranting about not getting a repair done when it didn't cost me anything Dumbass....Ok, good to lock thread now...

Actually, it is fixed now, pay attention. Letters make words, words make sentences, sentences say things.

I didn't call you a prick, I said you're being a prick. There is a difference. The jury is still out on whether or not you're capable of not being a prick.  That will determine if you actually are a prick or not. I don't want to get you too excited, but so far its looking good. Keep it up!  :-)

[gtx6970]

Wow, this thread sure went to hell in a hatbasket.
Let me see if I can straighten it out some.

One of the problems with todays  buyers market - is designers hear about what the average buyer wants so therefor they desighn cars with all the bells and whistles . But bean counters keeping an eye on the bottom line, cost is paramount. So when venders submit items for said options to exist, the bean counters look at the cheapest one 1st and go up from there,, hopeing the warrenty dept will take care of it IF a problem MIGHT happen down the road during the warrenty period .

Consumers are all about the next widget to keep there buns warm or there glass clean, or turn there lights on  with little to no effort of there own. There for Manufacuers are all about the next great thing, what ever that may be at a particular point in time.

2nd,,, is MOST ( not all ) of said buying public want it at the cheapest price point possible not really caring about the life of said widget. They just want something fancier than what there  neighbors  have.

How a tech gets paid is also  dependant on the dealer. Some dealers care about the techs and want to keep them happy if possibile and within  reason, some techs will never be happy, as will some customers.
Lets face it ,,,you can't make everybody happy. You can try but it's just NOT going to happen.
Next is the customer who comes in and there product is just barely out of warrenty, So wanting to do the good thing . You cover it HOPEING the manufactuer will see the same thing and pay said goodwill warrenty invoice . Lets say they do .  All this time in hopes it nets you a repeat customer for maint work in the end
( it rarely does btw )

Then same customer comes back in again lets say 3 months later with a different and unrelated issue . NOW, said customer demands it be fixed for free as well becuase it wasn't there before and you fixed it for free the last time.Your reply is sorry sir ( or madam ) I can not , your warrenty has expired and the last time was simply a good will repair.

so said customer goes out telling all his friends of how said dealer  will not cover this issue that wasnt there till they touched it the last time..


Todays buying public is all about how cheap is it, how fast can I have it.

In my parents time is was how good is it and how long is it going to last, But, sadly,,,,that mentality is gone in MOST of todays buying public.

[440]

Hence why I only own 5 cars and not one of them is newer than 1977..... 

[resq302]

A buddy I work with made a great comparison to our jobs being on the line (police dispatchers) and that the town might lay us all over in order to save a buck and go to the county dispatch center.  In a letter to the chief (who is in favor of keeping us) he said that we both do the same job, however, in todays "wal-mart economy" you cant expect to walk in and have the same service you would if you walk in and shop at Macys.  Someone at Macys will walk you to where the item is and tell you about the item, Wal-mart they tell you where to go and hopefully you find it.  Macys you are paying more for the item but you are also getting a lot better customer service and they know their job.  Wal-mart is just a body waiting for the end of their shift to come.

Lets face it, with an extended warranty, how many times have each of us actually used it?  The dealership or auto manufacturer makes a killing on them.  With the 97 ram I owned, I had it till 100,000 miles and never used it once!  All that money I paid for the "what if" now went to the company with them not paying out once!  As far as I am concerned, if you have a legitimate problem and you have the extended warranty, the dealership should get it fixed right, and fix it the first time.  I don't send a cop to your house that was burglarized saying, "well, if we don't catch him this time, we will get him the next time hopefully."  Next time he might burglarize your house with you inside and kill you!

[gtx6970]

Brian,
thats where these add on warrenty companies make there money,, it's actually very rare every car use's the full amount the warrenty costs

[Tilar]

Hence why I only own 5 cars and not one of them is newer than 1977..... 

I think you're on the right track.    I have 6 left and 4 of them are newer than 77 with my newest one being a 2000. Right now I don't forsee me owning anything newer than that. 

[resq302]

Brian,
thats where these add on warrenty companies make there money,, it's actually very rare every car use's the full amount the warrenty costs

Bill, my warranties I have gotten always have been through the dealership when I purchased the car there.  No third party warranty companies for me!  This way if there is any issues with warranty and what is covered, I go straight to the dealership!

[aussiemuscle]

 So basically they'll spend 1.5 days to replace a part that probably costs over $1,000 because a computer told them to when the issue was really .50 cents worth of connectors and maybe 30 minutes of time with a continuity tester and crimpers.

to be fair, computers (laptops) will often tell you one thing is wrong, when it's actually something else. just be thankful it doesn't run on microsoft operating system. 

[resq302]

Or Vista version.   

[gtx6970]

Brian,
thats where these add on warrenty companies make there money,, it's actually very rare every car use's the full amount the warrenty costs

Bill, my warranties I have gotten always have been through the dealership when I purchased the car there.  No third party warranty companies for me!  This way if there is any issues with warranty and what is covered, I go straight to the dealership!

Brian,
Mopars service contract devision is no different than any aftermkt warrenty company.

It may be under Mopars big name , but its still an 3rd party company and is operated no different than any other warrenty company.

The biggest difference - is Mopars service contract division isn't as strick for out of ' basic warrenty' repairs. And uses Mopars warrenty times for repairs, where as the aftermkts use Alldata, Chiltons and Motors time tables for labor times
Where as most of the aftermarket warrenty companies will use every tool imaginable to get of authorising a repair under it's warrenty time period

[resq302]

Bill, since 2005 with all the issues I had with my POS ram, I own a Ford F150 and have had good luck with the Ford Extended Service Protection Plan.  Tomorrow my truck goes in for the basic power train warranty since I am guessing it is another cam phaser failure like my 2005 F150 did.  It is an inherent problem that they have had a TSB on.  Unfortunately, when they corrected the issue for the 2007 year, I think it was after my assembly date of my 2007 as my truck was build 12/06.

[Darkman]

to be fair, computers (laptops) will often tell you one thing is wrong, when it's actually something else. just be thankful it doesn't run on microsoft operating system. 

That is the truth! My 2004 GM wagon (Holden Adventra for those Aussies) was displaying a "check engine" warning on my dash. The manual said it was either an engine or transmission problem and take it to a dealer. I took it in, they plugged it in and did a diagnostic on it. The fault said it was a firmware issue and so they upgraded it and said it was fine (and charged me for it). I drove from the dealership and 20minutes later, the same fault popped up. I took it back, they checked it again and it turned out my transmission was blown! Clutch bands worn out and the torque converter was falling apart! So when I asked about computer upgrade, they said that is what the computer told them. $3.5k later I had the transmission rebuilt (it was 8 months out of manufacturers warranty). I drove from the shop and it was running on 7 cylinders. The dealership tried to tell me it was like that when it came in. After they checked it it turned out they crimped an injector wire when they installed the transmission. 4 months later the rebuilt torgue converter let go again and several gears in the transmission exploded. This was covered under warranty from the first repair. It was an inconvenience, but at least I knew the car was getting fixed properly this time. I still have that car, I love it as it is strong and practical (it towed my charger over 450 miles at 60 mph without stopping with the rebuilt transmission). Never got upset as these things happen and no point in arguing, but I have chosen to exercise my consumer power and I go to another Holden dealership for any work now.