Beware of Krylon paint! They have a new formula.....

[resq302]

While trying to do some touch up on the charger, I ran into an issue with using their new interior/exterior paint, specifically the Satin Black 51613.  The old formula was 1613 and was labeled Semi flat black.  Figuring they were the same product and knowing how to paint, I used the new stuff over the old existing stuff after I lightly scuffed up the area to be touched up.  The light coat that I put on immediately wrinkled the stuff that was on the car already.  Being that I was really hot and steamed, I called Krylon and pretty much was told "oh well, we changed the formula and that the new formula allowed them to get more colors".  I followed up with a message to them via the internet on their site and this was the reply that I got:


7/7/2011 2:22:43 PM [Agent Note]

Brian,

Thank you for contacting Krylon. I am sorry to hear about your experience with our products.

The Interior Exterior Paint was lacquer based. This line did not have a critical recoat window as lacquer based products can be recoated at any time. This line has been discontinued. The Indoor/Outdoor paint is an alkyd enamel that has a critical recoat window which means that each new coat needs to be applied within one hour of the previous coat or it is necessary to allow the previous coat to cure completely prior to applying additional coats. The full cure time for this product is 24 hours under ideal, lab tested conditions of 77F with humidity at or below 50%. Higher humidity and/or lower temperatures will delay the cure time indefinitely until the paint environment more closely matches the lab testing conditions.

Applying additional coats of product outside of the recoat window or under unfavorable conditions will cause wrinkling to occur when a new coat is applied. This will be noticeable only after the second coat is applied and is not considered faulty product due to the fact that there are no issues with the first coat of the product.

To correct this issue, allow the paint to fully cure out under ideal conditions. Sand the surface smooth with 220 sandpaper to remove any wrinkling until you achieve a smooth, uniform appearance. Sanding often exposes more uncured paint, therefore, I suggest allowing another 24 hours of cure time after sanding to allow the exposed paint to cure out completely as well. Clean the sanding dust from the surface to ensure there are no contaminants, rinse and let dry. Apply a new coat of the product according to the label directions and recoat as necessary as outlined above.

If a clear coat is desired, you can use the lacquer based, Crystal Clear after the color coat dries for at least 48 hours under ideal conditions. Lacquers and alkyd enamels are technically incompatible, but some have success applying this clear coat with multiple, thin coats after 48 hours. The ideal clear would be the Low Odor Clear, a water based clear coating. This can be applied after the color coats cure for 24 hours under ideal application conditions and is suited for both interior and exterior applications.
I hope you found this information helpful. If you have any additional questions please email me back.

Sincerely,

Jill
Krylon Product Support


Needless to say, I am not that happy with their product now.  The new stuff seems very thin and watery compared the old lacquer stuff.  The new enamel based paint needs to have almost twice as many coats to cover up the primer compared to the old lacquer stuff also.

Figured I would put this out there for what it is worth to everyone.

[A383Wing]

I would tell "Jill" to come out and fix the problem herself

[resq302]

The thing I don't get is that the old stuff you could sand it down after a couple hours and reshoot it.  The new stuff you need to wait at least 24 hrs before you can sand and reshoot it OR just reshoot it in that hour window but if you have wrinkling or anything like that, you will need to wait at least a day. God help ya if you don't get it right the first time as the whole process will start to snow ball fast!

[A383Wing]

I have had the same issues in the past between lacquer & enamel based paints...wrinkled real fast

[resq302]

thing that pisses me off is that they don't list on the label what the kind of paint it is.

[CDN72SE]

Thanks for the posting, I was using the same paint on my 71 R/T taillight bezels and I got the wrinkling and couldn't figure out what was going on. I had used the old can for one bezel and the new on the other bezel, had to sand it back down and re-shoot, had the same problem with my KYB shocks i painted. 

[Mike DC]

thing that pisses me off is that they don't list on the label what the kind of paint it is

I find this infuriating.  It's true for most kinds of spray can coatings. 

[resq302]

Well.... I followed "Jill's instructions" and waited the 24 hours after the part was sanded down.  In my garage which has a dehumidifier in it, I tried applying one more coat.  Guess what?!?!?!  I f'n wrinkled again and this is going on top of the previous existing coat of same paint out of the same can.  Now I can see if it wrinkled in the same spot that it could be something in the metal but it wrinkled in a totally different spot than the first time.

[Silver R/T]

I wouldn't be so pissed off about $5 can of paint. You should be using better product on your Charger imo.

[Chatt69chgr]

Damn!  I hate to hear that about the Krylon.  It used to be the brand I looked for.  I guess I'll have to just buy SEM for the semi-gloss. 

Could folks please list some of the better brands mentioned.  I'd like to start buying them since Krylon just lost my business.

[resq302]

I wouldn't be so pissed off about $5 can of paint. You should be using better product on your Charger imo.

So for stuff that was satin black from the factory like brackets, horns, etc you would use an automotive body shop paint and then have to try and dull it down to whatever % to get the correct sheen?  I know the relief areas for the road wheels were a perfect match using the Krylon.

[Brock Lee]

Yeah, black mixed with the flattening agent to the appropriate sheen.

[Silver R/T]

Yeah, black mixed with the flattening agent to the appropriate sheen.

You can dull clear coat with flattening agent to the appropriate gloss you want. And you will still be getting protection and longevity of clear coat on whichever part you put it over

[resq302]

Problem is when something needs to be touched up it is a major pain in the arse doing it that way.

[RallyeMike]

EPA, Huffers,..... who shall get the blame?

Sounds like a complete pain in the ass to use their product now. Thanks for letting us know. Goodbye, Krylon!

[1969chargerrtse]

thing that pisses me off is that they don't list on the label what the kind of paint it is.

Oh, like when they took zinc out of our oil and didn't tell anyone?  And that wrinkled the motor parts.

[resq302]

thing that pisses me off is that they don't list on the label what the kind of paint it is.

Oh, like when they took zinc out of our oil and didn't tell anyone?  And that wrinkled the motor parts.

Exactly!   

[Silver R/T]

Problem is when something needs to be touched up it is a major pain in the arse doing it that way.

clear coat is much more durable than acrylic enamel paint you buy in rattle cans. It's oil/gas resistance is much higher than rattle can paint.

[resq302]

yes, but the items I would be painting semi gloss black in the engine compartment would not be getting oil or gas on them.  Lets face it, the alternator bracket, horn, voltage regulator, etc are not going to be in contact with any oil or grease.  Also, I used the Krylon 1613 on my power steering pump and that gets the oil sweat all over it and it has not flaked off or anything when I wipe the sweat off.  Ive found it to be very durable.  The new formula, however, I wouldn't use on my mailbox!

[69 OUR/TEA]

Take the parts off,glass bead them down,get some PPG etch or epoxy primer,PPG Delstar Acrylic enamel or their cheaper Omni line,reducer,hardner,flattening agent,and most important of all,the tech sheets on both.Follow the appropriate mixing ratio of the flattener for the desired level of gloss you want to achieve and there you have it.Will look really nice for a longer time vs. rattle cans and be alot more durable to.
Because you don't do paint and body Brian I understand why you resorted to rattle cans,but for these types of applications,you really can't screw it up.I'm sure you have even a small compressor,and if you don't have a spray gun,even a cheapo small touch up gun will work great for this.Since this is just for the little detail stuff,I'm sure you'll be fine,it's not like you're attempting 4,5,600 average hours on thebody/paint/sanding and buffing,etc.

[resq302]

again, the Krylon was a good item for what I need.  I do not have an endless amount of cash to be dropping into paint.  Hell, a pint of Dupont single stage paint for my red body paint is damn near $50 or so just for a pint!!!!!!  When I painted my 85 jeep cj-7 body, the half gal of metallic blue paint in chroma base was something like $200 and that wasn't even including the clear coat 7500 series.  Im well aware of you get what you pay for but with having a newborn baby, a 4 1/2 yr old, a mortgage 3 years into a 30 yr loan, two car payments for our 2 daily drivers, and the uncertainty of my job, I think I will stick to the rattle can stuff since it was good.  Now I just might have to find something new or a different brand since Krylon apparently sucks ass now.

[jaak]

I have paint guns, compressor, etc. Painted my car myself. But when It comes to small items, brackets, etc. I have no problems using a spray bomb, in most cases its easier cheaper, and the brand name types hold up pretty good. In my 73 when I changed the interior color, I painted the dash frame with spray cans, and after almost 3 years still looks as good as the day I painted it. Yes most times the only way to do it is with a spray gun and quality materials, but in some cases its just more feasible to use a spray bomb. My 

Jason

[resq302]

Jaak,

That was my point exactly.  My stuff that I have inside the engine compartment has held up since I restored that part of the car going on 8 years or so now.  Granted, the fan blade edges are getting chipped up but I would assume that whatever is hitting it (small stones, bugs, whatever) would cause the same thing with automotive grade paint as well.  Also, my dash and everything else has held up pretty well in my interior so I really don't see the brand name rattle cans having any issue.  Wait, let me correct that... Krylon was ok till they redid their formula.

[y3chargerrt]

I bet the EPA has something to do with the new formula.

[resq302]

Actually they said it was because the enamel would give a better gloss and they then could expand their colors.  I think it was a total BS line though.

[bill440rt]

Alkyd enamel = Rustoleum.   
It never fully "cures". You need to wait a few days, sometimes up to a week, to recoat.

If you insist on using rattle can paints, try Duplicolor or Plastikote instead. Or, spend the extra $$$ and go for SEM rattle can paint, available at any auto body supply store. It's about double what you'll pay for Krylon or Duplicolor, but a much better product.

[resq302]

Oh goodie.  So the new Krylon is just as good as Rustoleum then.   

[ramairthree]

thank you for the warning and information.

Now I know what happened to me a while back on another project.  I was positive I used the same paint, but chalked it up to not correctly remembering what I needed to get more of.

As someone that owns a smallblock 74 automatic RR with 73 Satellite interior, Corboda wrong color bucket seats, NOM, an "adapted" header back exhaust system, 3 different brand headlights, no wiper motor, a non functioning horn, no functioning rear lights, metallic sludge in the oil pain, a leaking peg leg rear diff, sunroof that does not work, no antenna, no heater box, a not competely correct windshield replacement, ratty carpet, cracked dash, and still in primer,
but starts right up and has great functioning brakes,
I am throwing no stones about choice of paint.

[FLG]

Hey Brian,

This is the paint i was talking to you about,

http://www.montana-cans.com/products/cans/gold/new-montana-gold#more11323

It seems A LOT of artists use it, around here its a lot of graffiti LOL but id imagine it might work well for your projects...

Heres a video, you get some AWESOME control from a spray can, covers awesome too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVIlofOYxHU

[resq302]

Frank,

They seem to have a limited color selection.  The only green I found is an Irish Green and it is only a 150 ml can.  I wonder how close the green would be to the color I need.

Oops, wait, I just noticed I was in the wrong section.  I found a bunch of greens.  I will have to contact the company and see what kinda base product they use.

[Cooter]

Oh you guys just wait till you buy the new "Water based" AUTOMOTIVE paints....They are "Wonderful" to try and spray....



Said ALL paint will be water based by the end of the year.

[sixpack_sid]

Shoot Cooter! I better go to the paint supply store & buy my touch up paint NOW!! Before they change it to water based.

[Charger-Bodie]

We switched to water at the shop this week. From the sampling and testing we did previous its really nice stable paint. I'm looking forward to using something better for the environment and my own health.

[resq302]

So what happens when it rains outside?  Will I have to repaint my car after every storm?   

[Charger-Bodie]

So what happens when it rains outside?  Will I have to repaint my car after every storm?   

Do you have to with your house?

[resq302]

So what happens when it rains outside?  Will I have to repaint my car after every storm?   

Do you have to with your house?

nope cause I have vinyl siding and aluminum trim.

[bill440rt]

There are many shops I deal with around here on a regular basis that have been using waterborne paints for a while now. Like anything else the initial transition is a little difficult, but once they are up & running and become accustomed to the stuff they all seem to really like it. Supposedly, it covers better, blends better, the metallics are more vibrant, etc vs solvent-based paints. The downside is the larger expense to convert (spray booth with special fans, dryers, etc), & the longer flash time on a humid day.

You don't really thin the paint with straight water, but rather a special water-based "solvent". And, only the basecoat & some primers are water based. The clearcoat is still solvent-based.

I don't think that by the end of the year "all" paints will be completely replaced with water-borne. "All" is a pretty strong statement. Like the older lacquer paints, yes solvent paints will eventually be phased out. But, it will take a few years not months. The technology is not there yet for water-borne clear coats.

[Brock Lee]

And there will always be loopholes. You can still buy all the lacquer products you want, decades after it was phased out of the auto industry through the woodworking industry. I buy all my nitrocelluose lacquer from California, the state with the toughest laws in regards to paint. The low cost options may dry up, but there will always be alternatives.

[Charger-Bodie]

There are many shops I deal with around here on a regular basis that have been using waterborne paints for a while now. Like anything else the initial transition is a little difficult, but once they are up & running and become accustomed to the stuff they all seem to really like it. Supposedly, it covers better, blends better, the metallics are more vibrant, etc vs solvent-based paints. The downside is the larger expense to convert (spray booth with special fans, dryers, etc), & the longer flash time on a humid day.

You don't really thin the paint with straight water, but rather a special water-based "solvent". And, only the basecoat & some primers are water based. The clearcoat is still solvent-based.

I don't think that by the end of the year "all" paints will be completely replaced with water-borne. "All" is a pretty strong statement. Like the older lacquer paints, yes solvent paints will eventually be phased out. But, it will take a few years not months. The technology is not there yet for water-borne clear coats.

Some of th lines of Waterbase actually do use distilled water as oposed to sovlent reducer. We switched from Sikkens Autobase plus to Sikken Autowave.

[Aero426]

Just got bit on this.   Sprayed a radiator top with Krylon last night at 11 PM,  went to touch it up tonight at 8 PM and it wrinkled.     Did not hose the stuff on either.     I guess their recoat after 24 hours statement means business.    Thought for sure I would be "close enough".  Unbelievable!   What a mess.

[miamivice]

I know this was originally posted in 2011...but for some reason I missed it back then.   Good to know, and sucks to hear