my new 360 wont idle

[b5blue]

 

[Paul G]

Man I feel for you. My  . You say distributor is old, is the mechanical advance in good shape? No broken springs or weights, etc. Firing order correct, meaning plug wires in the right holes on the dist cap? Is your ignition coil good? Can you swap in another? I know that the cork gaskets on the ends of the intake are sometimes too thick to even get the intake to bolt up. Mine were, had to just use silicone sealant on the ends. I used a Fel Pro gasket set with an RPM Air Gap intake. Is it possible that the cork end gaskets are not allowing the intake to seal to the head? Big vacuum leak at the intake ports? You questioned the timing chain. Did you install the chain? Are you sure it is installed correctly? Jumped time maybe?

Carb settings do not usually cause the engine to not run. A poorly adjusted carb will make the engine run poorly. If the idle screws are 1 1/2 to 2 turns out, and the idle setting screw is out far enough to keep the engine idling, it will idle if there are no other issues. You probably have many other issues to sort out first.   

Just my thoughts. Good luck!

[nrt69]

its vac advance but its not hooked up. wires set up correct.
i didnt install timing chain, carolina machine engines did. i saw the marks they used to line it up correctly when i got the long block so i doubt its installed wrong.
i do question the cork gasket after just now pulling the intake...

theres oil seepage past the intake/exhaust ports on the head. oil is on both sides of the gaskets, at the bottom, around the ports.

how much of a gap should there be at the front/back of the intake where it sits on the block? that cork gasket is considerably thicker than the gap i have when just resting the intake on the engine...maybe the cork did prevent the intake from sealing properly?

[Paul G]

I cant see how you even got the manifold bolts in the head using the cork. My holes werent even close to lining up. I ditched the cork right away. If I remember (dont count too much on that) the sealant was only about half the thickness of the cork. But, I think you found your problem. Keep us informed.

[nrt69]

well, its not the intake gaskets.

[nrt69]

is there a way to troubleshoot timing chain and cam degree issues before tearing the front of the motor apart?
can my MP electronic distributor be so worn out it limits my ability to time my engine? (or give me a very narrow window of timing?)

[b5blue]

Pull the valve cover and get the valve train set up for firing on #1 to see what is indicated on timing mark. Kinda doubt the dizzy being bad or worn out, again the quality of starting and idle was greatly improved when I changed to a FBO set up dizzy with the vacuum advance working correctly. Mileage went up quite a bit too.

[Musicman]

As long as you follow Don's (FBO) instructions concerning how to properly set up and tune an engine to the letter, it's hard to go wrong. 

[nrt69]

Pull the valve cover and get the valve train set up for firing on #1 to see what is indicated on timing mark. Kinda doubt the dizzy being bad or worn out, again the quality of starting and idle was greatly improved when I changed to a FBO set up dizzy with the vacuum advance working correctly. Mileage went up quite a bit too.

You mean set it up at TDC and ensure the valves are open/closed properly?

[b5blue]

Yes then you can see the relationship between crank and cam.

[nrt69]

if the timing chain was NOT installed at TDC, would i be able to tell by looking at the valves/rockers?

PS, before you do buisness with carolina machine engines....EMAIL ME!!

[b5blue]

Well more like TDC on the piston and where the rockers are positioned, they should be both relaxed, the push rods off any ramp on the lobes of the cam.  (I'm kinda doubting they are a tooth off, but I've seen bigger mistakes in my days!)

[nrt69]

does anyone have any pics of a 360 timing chain and camshaft installation?
the chain only goes on one way? or multiple ways if using an aftermarket double chain?
does the cam connect to it only one way?
does the #1 have to be at TDC when installing the cam and timing chain?

[b5blue]

On stock it's dot to dot.

[Chryco Psycho]

of course I have seen cams ground so far off that it could still be as much as 13* off with the dots lined up , you really need to degree it

[nrt69]

and degree-ing it involves pulling the front of the motor off, right?

[maxwellwedge]

Yes

[b5blue]

I'm feeling your frustration, 

[Paul G]

You had the engine built by a shop right? Have you questioned them about what it is doing? Could you pull it out and take it back to them and let them figure it out? Saves you a lot of trial and error, and grief. 

[nrt69]

dont get me started about the engine builder (contact me before you do buisness with carolina machine engines!!!)
they are out of state and were all sorts of nice before they had my money and now they dont want to offer any assistance despite telling me that they would.
Nobody in my isolated small west TX town is competent enough, or cares enough, to help me either. SO, I get to learn how to diagnose and fix my problems the long hard expensive way.

[nrt69]

would doing a compression check help me narrow down the problem before i take the front of the engine apart?

[maxwellwedge]

It may or may not but I would do one anyway just to see if everything else is as it should be. A leakdown test would be a good thing as well....just to keep this shop honest.

I am still thinking there is something else causing your vacuum readings.....they are too low for your build.

[Chryco Psycho]

I am willing to fly in & help

[heyoldguy]

There is a way to get a rough check on the cam timing without removing anything but the left valve cover. Turn the engine over until #1 cylinder is at TDC with both valves closed (#1 fire). Now begin rotating the engine 360 degrees by hand. Watch the #1 cylinder rocker arms. As you rotate the engine the exhaust valve will begin to open and then start closing again. When the exhaust is about closed the intake will start opening. When both rocker arms are level, i.e. both intake and exhaust valves open the same amount, STOP. You are now at split overlap. Look at the timing marks on the damper, it should read around 0 to +5 degrees. If it is way off from that, you probably have a cam timing issue.

[b5blue]

Hey you did a much better job explaining what I meant!   

There is a way to get a rough check on the cam timing without removing anything but the left valve cover. Turn the engine over until #1 cylinder is at TDC with both valves closed (#1 fire). Now begin rotating the engine 360 degrees by hand. Watch the #1 cylinder rocker arms. As you rotate the engine the exhaust valve will begin to open and then start closing again. When the exhaust is about closed the intake will start opening. When both rocker arms are level, i.e. both intake and exhaust valves open the same amount, STOP. You are now at split overlap. Look at the timing marks on the damper, it should read around 0 to +5 degrees. If it is way off from that, you probably have a cam timing issue.