Instrument voltage regulator?

[flyboyedwards]

I have a ralleye cluster that I am ready to reinstall, and was wondering if anyone has used this guys part?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Dodge-Solid-State-Voltage-limiter-your-gauges-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZalgoQ3dLVIQ26ituQ3dUCIQ26otnQ3d4Q26poQ3dLVIQ26psQ3d63Q26clkidQ3d1138319182292774998QQ_trksidZp5197Q2em7QQitemZ280572903071

I really don't want one to burn out, and kill my gauges! Thanks for the help!!
Jason.

[Cooter]

Haven't used this persons but.....
I converted my own using the Radio Shack 5 Volt Regualtor, which is what this person evidently used.. Works really well. Gauges read alot more steady..Notice I said STEADY, not more acurate...

No matter what you do, the stock gauges will be "Good" at best..

[A383Wing]

I ain't used that one either....but he was on our forum talking about it...

I built my own from a 5v regulator from electronics parts house as well...converted all my cars over to electronic style....below is what I did with mine...there is a capacitor inside the housing for voltage spikes, and the OE limiter housing acts as a heat sink.....I had to remove the OE limiter from inside the fuel gauges on both my 66's

total cost for the ones I built was less than $10 plus about 45 minutes of my time

[W4ATL]

The 5 volt regulator will work well and is simple to put together. Their are two drawbacks if you roll your own this way:

1. The regulator will get hot so you need to make sure it is well bonded to the metal casing to act as a heat sink. Some heat sink compound will help the heat transfer.
2. The original regulator will actually go above 5 volts for a short while to get the gauges to read quicker. With the 5 volt regulator the gauges will come up more slowly as the elements warm up. Their is a regulator made by RTE that uses switching technology (instead of linear like the 5V voltage regulator) that keeps it cool and it has some smarts to make the gauges react faster on startup that will mimic the original. It is pricey.

I installed the RTE regulator and have been pleased with it.

[flyboyedwards]

Thanks for the help guys!    
2 questions.......... 1st, where do I find the RTE regulator?
2nd, how is the capacitor, that you installed wired?

[charger Downunder]

Isnt this the ones at Mega Parts
Plug and play
http://www.megapartsusa.com/search.asp?pg=1&stext=voltage&sprice=&stype=&scat=

[charger Downunder]

Isnt this the ones at Mega Parts
Plug and play
http://www.megapartsusa.com/search.asp?pg=1&stext=voltage&sprice=&stype=&scat=

From rte website
http://rt-eng.com/mediawiki/index.php/Dash-Worx_ABlimiter

[flyboyedwards]

Isnt this the ones at Mega Parts
Plug and play
http://www.megapartsusa.com/search.asp?pg=1&stext=voltage&sprice=&stype=&scat=

Thanks for the help!! Mega Parts is close to me too!!  I just didn't want to trust the old style one one the new cluster!
Jason.

[solids0be]

1973 standard cluster

When reinstalling the regulator is there a companion wire that goes into one of the slots? Ive ordered a new Regulator cause mine was bad but looking at the cluster from under the dash im seeing a black wire with a 90 degree male connector that leads to a cylinder thats mounted near the Ampmeter..does this plug into the slots along with the regulator..possibly the ground?

[A383Wing]

no...that spade terminal goes into the 12v power for the regulator

[solids0be]

no...that spade terminal goes into the 12v power for the regulator

Thanks brah, the Chilton Manual didn't say anything about it.

[A383Wing]

if you are putting in the new style electronic regulator for the gauges, you don't need to use that round cylinder that was connected with the OE style points regulator

[solids0be]

No I bought a Borg warner cheapy off amazon for 20 bucks.

[A383Wing]

No I bought a Borg warner cheapy off amazon for 20 bucks.

then you need to keep that round thingy with the 1 wire pigtail on the dash cluster. That wire that has the spade on it goes into the slot where the regulator goes..but it must go into the slot that has the 12v when key is on...then install the regulator .....so you will have 2 terminals in one of the dash slots

[440]

One thing to watch out for as I learned the hard way is that if your running electronic ignition to PLEASE use a solid state voltage regular. Mine failed and wiped out the instrument regulator which in turn wiped out the gauges which required a re-core. From what I've read it's usually the other way around and it wipes out the ignition box but my regulator failed first.

When we first tested the regulator the output voltage was fine, put the new cluster in and the ammeter gauge started to smoke... Upon testing the regulator again it was spiking to 17+v which would have killed them again !!! All because the switching type regulator was intermittently failing.

Just thought I'd post this as a heads up to maybe save someone some trouble...

[A383Wing]

yea...that's why it's better to use an electronic style regulator....

funny how that white smoke makes things work

[solids0be]

Im assuming you mean the regulator inside the engine bay if so that whole scenerio would explain what happened to my cars electrical system. My ignition module in my breakerless distributer got wiped out the same day my gauges went crazy and my cars been dead in the water since...Ill be carefull when I put it all back together especially seeing that I bought both the new module and the ignitiuon reg at the same time online, ill find out sometime next week.

[440]

Yes the voltage regulator in the engine bay... It was the cause of all my electrical problems too. Just luckily we caught it in time before it damaged the gauges again !!! Sounds like you have a similar problem. If you have a switching regulator pull it off and look at the back of it and see if you can see any burned spots, I'd also test it with a multimeter while the car is running and watch the voltage. Mine would make contact and if you tapped it it would cut in and out causing the voltage to spike. Don't use a switching regulator with EI or it will probably happen again.

Still waiting on my solid state VR-1 regulator to arrive so I can finally put this one to bed. It would be interesting to see what your test results are 

   

[solids0be]

well ive been running the Black Mopar regulator im pretty sure its solid state though...regardless ill have to have it checked out before I put everything back together. Would it make sense that when I revved my engine at the time of my issues started I was blowing out my fusable links?

[A383Wing]

there's one way to tell if the regulator is solid state or points style...flip is over...does it have coil type resistors under it? If yes, it's points style...loose it

[solids0be]

uhgg fried another instrument regulator..it was acting a little weird kinda bouncing then failed hard while adjusting my timing. This is after I installed a new alternator (78AMP) new voltage regulator and new MSD blaster coil....SO im guessing a bad ground on my cluster probobaly did it in.or it was just a bad unit.so yeah 20 bucks down the drain....I might do the homemade conversion this time around seeing that I have 2 old regs to experiment with.

[resq302]

This is the one that I got and I've had no regrets.  I got mine from RTE though but this is probably the same thing.
http://www.megapartsusa.com/proddetail.asp?prod=163%2DVL101

[MaximRecoil]

When doing your own solid state regulator conversion using the 7805 chip, does the capacitor go between the output pin and the ground pin on the chip, or does it go between the input pin and the ground pin on the chip?

I read the Moparts Tech Archive article, specifically the section titled "info from 340_6Pak_cuda", and it says:

Figure6. Here I have attatched a capacitor to the IC. The capacitor takes the place of the condensor(external).(Radio Shack 10uF cap #272-1025) The stock condenser should not be used with this conversion. To attatch the capacitor, solder the negative lead directly to the ground(middle) leg of the IC. Next solder the positive side of the capacitor to the input leg of the IC. Refer to the diagram below for the orientation of the input/output on the IC. This will also be printed on the back of the package. Protect the output capacitor lead from shorting out on the case by placing a piece of heat shrink tubing on it before soldering.

That seems simple enough, i.e., he says the capacitor goes between the input and ground pins of the chip. However, in his last sentence he refers to it as the "output capacitor lead", which seems to indicate that the capacitor's positive lead is connected to the output pin rather than the input pin.

[y3chargerrt]

The cap filters the incomming 12 volts. Make sure you use a heat sink. A 7805 WILL get hot. I love the RTE regulator because it stays cool. Good luck

[resq302]

The cap filters the incomming 12 volts. Make sure you use a heat sink. A 7805 WILL get hot. I love the RTE regulator because it stays cool. Good luck

I agree.  I did the "build it yourself" conversion before going to Carlisle last year and it got way too hot for me.  Hot enough that you would burn your finger if you touched it.  Seeing (and feeling) that, I ordered up the one from RTE and it is nice and cool and does not get hot.  There is even a red LED light that blinks to let you know it is functioning properly.

[MaximRecoil]

I agree.  I did the "build it yourself" conversion before going to Carlisle last year and it got way too hot for me.  Hot enough that you would burn your finger if you touched it.  Seeing (and feeling) that, I ordered up the one from RTE and it is nice and cool and does not get hot.  There is even a red LED light that blinks to let you know it is functioning properly.

The RTE one looks great, but for a few dollars vs. $50, I'd rather try the few dollar method first. Instead of cramming it all into the shell of the original regulator, I think I'm just going to do it out in the open, and maybe screw it down where the soon-to-be unneeded condenser is currently screwed down. That way I'll be able to use a real finned aluminum heat sink ...



... along with thermal compound, rather than making the old regulator housing act as a heat sink (which has no fins, is very thin, and is made of who-knows-what kind of metal; i.e., not a very effective heat sink). I think that should keep it cool enough.  

[A383Wing]

I just mounted the 7805 chip to the outside of one of the OE regulator housings...that acts as the heat sink...been working fine on all my cars since 1996

[MaximRecoil]

I just mounted the 7805 chip to the outside of one of the OE regulator housings...that acts as the heat sink...been working fine on all my cars since 1996

Mounting to the outside of the housing would probably work a little better in terms of cooling than mounting it to the inside, and it no doubt provides sufficient cooling either way, given that many people have done it both ways without problems.

I like the idea of a real heat sink though (by "real" I mean something designed specifically as a heat sink for the 7805 chip, made out of a good, [and relatively thick] thermal conductor [aluminum] with fins for increased surface area) for a few reasons, e.g., peace of mind, not having to destroy the original (still working) regulator, and only being $3. 

[A383Wing]

I could not put the chip on the inside..that's where I put the capacitor

[MaximRecoil]

I could not put the chip on the inside..that's where I put the capacitor

Both the capacitor and the chip can fit inside, as long as you use a small enough capacitor. You can see pictures of it done that way here and here. Though it is neat and tidy looking doing it that way, I think better cooling results from mounting the 7805 chip on the outside of the case. Even better cooling results from a purpose-built heat sink (in which case you don't need to use the original regulator for anything). That's how Mopar Action did it in their August 2000 "Gage [sic] Rage" article:



(The heatsink I linked to previously is the exact one they used, by the way)

[MaximRecoil]

Does this look right?



Also, how is the instrument cluster's entire aluminum frame grounded? Is it just through the 5 little screws that secure it to the dash? If so, I think I'll add a ground strap to it just to be certain that the entire thing is well-grounded.

[A383Wing]

the center terminal of the 7805 chip is 12v into it....and where is yer capacitor?

and yes, dash is grounded through mounting screws

[MaximRecoil]

the center terminal of the 7805 chip is 12v into it....

According to all the instructions I've read, the center pin of the 7805 chip is negative and is supposed to be grounded. For example, from the Mopar Action "Gage Rage" article:

"The center pin is also connected to the mounting tab, and is ground."

And a diagram of the 7805 chip:

and where is yer capacitor?

It is just to the right of the "+" and "-" symbols that I added to the picture, which I added to show the polarity of the capacitor (10 μF, 35 volts):

and yes, dash is grounded through mounting screws

Thanks.

[A383Wing]

ok...yup..yer right about the center pin on the chip...it is ground....sorry..old age here...and I stopped making these regulators a while ago....

Bryan

[MaximRecoil]

ok...yup..yer right about the center pin on the chip...it is ground....sorry..old age here...and I stopped making these regulators a while ago....

Bryan

Okay, so the way I did it looks okay then?

[A383Wing]

yea...as long as the capacitor is going from "+" to "-" and it's large enough....also, the capacitor is polarity sensitive....meaning it has to be connected correctly so it works right..I can't tell from the picture....

from what I remember, (don't say it)....one end of the capacitor has either a "0" or a "-" on one end....I think that goes to ground

[y3chargerrt]

The side with the stripe on it is ground on a electrolytic capacitor is always ground.

[MaximRecoil]

yea...as long as the capacitor is going from "+" to "-" and it's large enough....also, the capacitor is polarity sensitive....meaning it has to be connected correctly so it works right..I can't tell from the picture....

from what I remember, (don't say it)....one end of the capacitor has either a "0" or a "-" on one end....I think that goes to ground

Yes, in my first picture I indicated the polarity of the capacitor with a "+" and "-" symbol, i.e., the positive leg is soldered to the middle pad (+12 VDC input) and the negative leg is soldered to the bottom pad (ground). In the second picture you can see the stripe on the capacitor more clearly, which indicates the negative leg. It is 10 μF, 35 volts, which is a suitable value according to all the instructions I have read.

I've dealt with capacitors a lot before; I've installed a lot of "cap kits" on old arcade monitors and power supplies; and I soldered components to boards in a PCB factory for about two and a half years when I was younger.

The side with the stripe on it is ground on a electrolytic capacitor is always ground.

Yes, and the negative leg is also the shorter of the two legs on a radial capacitor.