Six Pack Excited!

[b5blue]

  Getting excited now! After 40 some odd days of digging into my six pack outboard carb. issues they are back together better than ever and going back on the 440. Last Oct. after installing a 120 Denso alt. then adding a new A688 ignition system with a set up dizzy from FBO the car was coming to life like never before! As a result of getting all that squared away I knew I was ready to go for better settings on the six pack. No matter what I tried I couldn't get the darn fuel level heights up to the sights on the side of the outboard carb's bowls. (Up to the holes much less 1/2 way over the hole where they need to be!) Getting a ping at more that 3/4 throttle at high RPM meant fuel starve and that is bad MoJo so I parked it and started slowly rounding up parts and doing research.
  With the old workhorse 90 New Yorker dieing with 250K miles on it I bought my buddy's 89 Cherokee for a "beater" and that pesky thing ate up time and money I didn't have. (Working on a tight budget and only weekends.)
  After finally getting the Cherokee repaired, purring and 100% driving sweet I tore back into the Chargers carb's only to find missing backing plates for the metering blocks and bent metering blocks, then bent float arms. Witness marks on the gaskets showed fuel was getting past them and slurping into the metering channels and the arms on the floats were bent upward where they arch up to hit the needle/seats. (Most likely to compensate for the additional bleeding of fuel.)
These issues didn't surface right away, I had the same guy rebuild the six pack that did it 16 years ago and it ran fine for many years back then. Upon first fire up of the rebuilt 440 the fuel levels held and adjusted, I think he knew (But forgot to tell me!) the blocks were bent slightly and left the backing plates off to get them to seal. Over time it all failed to function as the gasket's seals weakened. So as I was fixing other problems new gremlins were growing.
  So now I feel like a kid on Christmas eve, I'd had it all back together by last weekend but work put me on weekend shift then stuck me working the fourth just as the last repair parts came in. Finding one problem, ordering parts, waiting, checking new stuff then finding more problems, ordering more parts, waiting, on and on, how some of you do the whole car like that amazes me! I've tackled one system at a time keeping the car running more or less one way or another until this where it sat for so long. Wish me luck I may need it! Thanks to all you guys who helped me sort out these and other details here, hopefully I'll be burning rubber in a day or two again!   

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

Progress sounds great Neal!  All the best

[Steve P.]

Hey buddy, this is sounding better than last we spoke. Who is doing your rebuilds? I know of a guy in Clearwater that does fantastic work and is reasonable. Oddly enough, his name is HOLLEY.... He's done a few carbs for me with great results and the guy has a gazzzzillion cores all over the place for those hard to find parts... He's right down around Sunset Point and Belcher area. Maybe look him up if you still run into trouble. It's been a while since I've been there but I'm sure he's in the book... 

[b5blue]

  Hey Steve good to hear from ya!  I'm did the outboards myself, now they are just waiting for fuel to reach them. I'm still messing around trying to get the fuel pump going. I tried just cranking the crap out of it, then hooked up my Harbor Freight suction gun (It looks kinda like a grease gun with a handle you pull on on one end.) and got some fuel moving. I cranked it with a jar on the end of a hose, it should be pulsing fuel when I crank it but no joy yet! I keep recharging the battery between farting around as if it starts I don't want that 120 amp alt. kicking in and heating up the harness. Slower going but it lets the starter cool down real well. Thanks for the tip on Holley I may need outside help, I'll get a hold of ya if I do. I'm not out of tricks yet! Feels good to be back messing with Ol'Blue now, heck it's the only car that can't piss me off....scratching my head maybe...but I don't get hot headed about it!   

[Rolling_Thunder]

sounds like progress to me ---  I scored some six pack carbs for my 440 i'm putting in my 69 Road Runner and will face the same problems - the guy who "rebuilt" them before me forgot to put the metering shim gasket in the rear carb and bent the throttle blades on the same carb...    I'm going to use the proform plates that use regular holley jets instead of those drilled holes...   makes life easier in the long run   

BTW - POST PICS!     

[maxwellwedge]

Neal - Throw a few drops of fuel down the center carb. Fire it up. Repeat a few times until everything starts flowing. Saves a lot of wear and tear on the starter and battery.

I hope the diaphragm in the fuel pump didn't get buggered up with that vacuum pump!

[b5blue]

  After my last post I took what little fuel (20 cc's) I got from sucking and chucked it in the center carb, hit the key and it instantly fired up for a few seconds. (This thing wants to run!) We are on the same page Maxwellwedge, I was doing that to try and re-fire it up prior to removing the outboards quite a few times. I never saw any fuel in any bowls after cycling it that way and assumed stuck bowl needles as I had some slight fuel pressure when I opened a fuel line.
  I've done enough cranking now to insure plenty of oiling after sitting so long and am ordering a new pump (even if to save for a backup part) just in case. I've been wanting a new gas tank for 16 years. I pulled this one 3-4 years ago and cleaned it but did find a small film of rust dust in the bowls, possibly the fuel sock is clogged and/or the vapor separator screen. (So maybe it's time for new ones.)
  I was wakened early this morning by a big thunderstorm so my carport is drenched now where I need to get to pull fuel from the tank feed line or I'd done that already. The plan is to bypass the pump and vapor separator with hose and filter I can see through. Then I can suck fuel right from the tank and feed line to check it is free flowing and if there is any crap in it that may have crippled or clogged the pump or separator. The sock is so fine I can't see anything large getting through it but who knows, moving fuel wasn't an issue back in Oct. when I shut it down.
  Any ideas or comments are welcome and appreciated, THANKS GUYS!       

[mauve66]

starter fluid will get it running in no time

[maxwellwedge]

Careful with that stuff - It can break an engine real bad.

[b5blue]

Well it's been raining all day, start, stop on and on, now I gotta work all weekend and won't be off till next Thur. but I did order a M4845 Carter from Summit. 

[Belgium R/T -68]

Good luck Neal You are getting there.


Per

[firefighter3931]

Neal, make sure to check the fuel pump pushrod...it should measure 3.25in long 


Ron

[b5blue]

Any source for a "good" new pump rod? I read the new ones were bad so I stuck with my old one as it was in good shape.  I'm still going to try Maxwellwedge's tip feeding it fuel out of a can for a while to see if the pump starts working first. That was all working back in Oct. but I wanted back up parts anyway.

[b5blue]

  Well it was the darn fuel pump! It's running now!     I hope the new gas isn't messing up Carter M4845 fuel pumps, mine was fairly new.    Now to start tuning the six pack!  (I'm topping up the battery with my charger before restart.)

[b5blue]

  Well I did well on initial settings for the outboards. With the floats height set so that the float's top is parallel to the top of the bowl when upside down (Off the carb of course.) it gave me a full bowl fuel height of about 1/4 above the bottom of the sight hole. My setting of the idle needles (In the base of the outboards.) at 1 full turn out gave me no rise or drop in idle when I plugged the outer most bleed holes in the top of the outboards throats. (A good sign I'm close on idle A/F mix.)
  After a warm up drive for some fresh fuel a jab at the gas peddle from 5 MPH netted two 8 foot rubber strips on the road with no bogging or pinging, just tires complaining. Looks like "I'm Back in the saddle again", now for a bath, it's filthy!   

[CharcoalCharger]

Awesome     Gotta love a story with a happy ending.

[maxwellwedge]

Nice! Enjoy Neal!!   

[b5blue]

THANKS for your support guys! (No more sucking fuel through the fuel pump for me, I don't know now if it was shot at first onset but the new pump instantly started pushing plenty of fuel.)