repop daytona nose in steel

[randr]

thinking about this for a winter project......

[Charger-Bodie]

thinking about this for a winter project......

You go boiy!

[randr]

I would be getting these stamped, so start up cost would be very high for dies. But I'm willing to get this going if enough people are interested.

[DAY CLONA]

I would be getting these stamped, so start up cost would be very high for dies. But I'm willing to get this going if enough people are interested.

Your gonna need quite a few people, like several hundred individuals committed, otherwise your funding it on your own, unless you have access to doing the die work yourself, the costs can be staggering, I would bet upwards of $5K just for the 3D scan/CAD, steel dies would run a minimum of $125K-$250K depending on the progression of the tooling, then you have assy of the finished project, plus the leaseing/labour fees of a 300+ tonne press/operator to generate parts,....I've worked in this field for 30 years now


Kinda the reason the original wingcar tooling was worked from a wooden mock-up, to a kirksite form, and lots of handforming/assy,......Jacks McGaughey's current "kirksite style" form for corking nose cones is 2part steel/epoxy compound, Jack does his own tooling, but the mat'l costs alone were $3K minimum to mold a form, that you can only handform/cork on

Investment costs/labor/effort to produce a steel nosecone was the only reason I continue to offer a fiberglass nosecone for a Daytona or Superbird, projects like this have a tendencey to snowball, ....if you offer a nosecone, then the buyer wants the associated hardware (internals Z bars, light buckets, grille frames, etc)

When Gene Gregory was re-entering the market with DayTona or Superbird nosecones, he thought $10K was going to be his market price, his tooling was already done back in the early 80's, but with Jack McG already established at $6-7K,....Gene was reduced to $5K to move them, and it's still a tuff sell at that,....but even at $4K the market is small, very small, an lets face it, the Mopar crowd in general is cheap,..Hmmm, frugal if you like, if they have a choice of a $600 fiberglass nosecone, they'll buy that first....only a handful will ante up for a steel/aluminum nose cone...DAMHIK

Mike

[randr]

i will get this done. one way or another. 

[montana bird]

Hi had talked to gene a couple of months ago. He was talking about investing in daytona tooling, but you know how talk is. He told me he was thinking about selling all of his superbird parts and tooling if somebody was interested but did not say a price. He told me he had a company in Detroit that held his kirksite dies and when he needed noses, he would call and put an order in. Ron Kniffley in KY, a hell of a nice guy builds all of Gene's z brackets and headlight buckets. Ron told me that another person builds his pivot frames. I can't remember his name, I have it wrote down somewhere.  . I have a have one of Gene's steel noses in my garage. Wow this thing is beautiful. Stamped out of black iron, What a work of art. I have allot of respect for those guys in the 70's to mass produce a part carved from oak in such a short period of time.

[gtx6970]

at $4000, I would probaly take one today.

Provided  it's true to the original design in all aspects

And I agree with mike on this. It WILL be a VERY limited sales market share.
Thats just one of the problems with marketing a new product when something else is already avail and has established a retail price level, regardless of quality differerences.
And yes, I also agree, mopar people ( some not all ) tend to be cheap. And continuesly compare prices to Camaro parts. And its not a fair comparison to begin with.

Should you  procede , I fully wish you the best of luck and hope you make a boatload of cash

[Redbird]

If you go through with it, best of luck.

My question would be for Doug, or perhaps Brennan. But my guess is that Doug is the only one who has access to basic information that is not a repeat of 3'rd hand information. Even he may not know.

For both Daytonas and Superbirds, a guess as to what percentage of cars have their original cones? A guess as to how many original cars have reproduction cones in fiberglass, steel and aluminum? A guess as to how many original NOS, and both repairable and unrepairable cones are out there in storage.

[Mike DC]

            
It seems to me like somebody could be "mass producing" some metal reproduction pieces for these cars, just not with large stamping/molding processes being used.  

To me, those nosecones & rear window plugs look like they could be handmade as long as they were done with accurate templates.  Somebody could do a few dozen in a single big batch, demonstrate that they are accurate & consistent enough to be interchanged from car-to-car, maybe sell them with unfinished welds and stuff to keep the costs down, etc.  Once word got out about the quality of the first batch then future runs of other wing car parts would be an easier sell.  



Has anyone ever done something like this in sheetmetal?

I imagine that each item would still need to be pretty expensive, given the handmade nature of it.  But I suspect that the demand would be there IF everyone actually trusted that they were gonna get a high quality & consistent item for their money.

[DAY CLONA]

 Somebody could do a few dozen in a single big batch, demonstrate that they are accurate & consistent enough to be interchanged from car-to-car, maybe sell them with unfinished welds and stuff to keep the costs down, etc.  Once word got out about the quality of the first batch then future runs of other wing car parts would be an easier sell.  



Has anyone ever done something like this in sheetmetal?

Hmmmmmm..........tell you what, you come on over, I got plenty of work!.... I have the tooling to make EVERY part for a 69 Daytona, 70 Superbird, or even a 71 Daytona or 71 Superbird,......after just making 1 set of Z bars, or a wing, I guarantee you the mere mention of making "a few dozen in a single big batch" will cause you to pop a nerve!,.....a rear window plug in steel is an easy 40 hrs of actual work, a set of z bars is another 20 hrs of work, a rear wing is about 100 hrs of actual work to create a finished product, the toll is on the human, who must produce these parts, hr after hr, day after day, week after week,........generally when I make parts, I do try and make a small run, only to supply the demand that comes after word of mouth, after a sale.......but after making over 50 sets of Z bars, dozens of wings, dozens of scoops, dozens of grille frames, headlite buckets, lower valances, latch trays, nose cones, wing washers, wing braces, rear window chrome sets, front spoilers, C frames, cross braces, seal kits,license plate brackets, modify jacks, hold down plates, headlight piviots, cams, stops, vacumm harnesses,etc, etc, etc,....plus create a few cars for magazines/customers,..........it gets old fast,



But even when you can supply all these parts, the market is so SMALL,....you won't get rich making wingcar parts, trust me, it's more a love of the cars, than anything, sure it mushrooms into a small business,........and it funds the toys, that's about it, the current crop of parts are expensive, but generally that price is because of the intensive hand work required (labour) mat'ls are generally cheap, but there are equipment purchases required, esp the more complicated the part becomes to form, nevermind the countless hrs developing a part/process,...molds/dies/bucks/templates just don't appear, most of the time you go thru generations of tooling/dies/bucks, before even making one part,....and for the most part, most of the work is done, hammer/dolly/spoon, or combination corking, dies, english wheel, planish, bead roller, etc/etc.......and keeping in mind that the finished product must appear crisp and "production like", takes years to hone that skill,.....and then after working a 50+ hr week at your regular job, and then knowing another 40+ hrs will be spent perhaps creating 1 part, maybe 2,.....well I think you know what I mean, plus there's the project cars, customers cars,...the nagging wife, who complains you spend all your time working on cars.....tons of fun!....when can you start work?

Mike

[hotrod98]

I agree with you 100% Mike. Even though I only made a few parts, I'm totally burnt out. As soon as the last of these parts are gone, there will be no more from me. I think I might have one set of wing braces left and a few sets of the front frame braces, valance braces and latch tray braces left.
Theres just not a big enough market for these parts and in my opinion, it's going to get much smaller as time goes by. There aren't too many people left willing to alter a restored Charger thats usually worth much more original than when cloned into a Daytona.
The availability of unrestored 68-70 Chargers is very limited and its getting very difficult to locate 70 Charger front sheet metal for the conversion of the 68 and 69's.
The best customer for a steel Daytona nose is someone that owns a real Daytona that has been damaged in the front but how many times does that happen?
I keep thinking that I should buy one of Gene Gregory's steel Superbird noses as a backup for my bird but that is a lot of dough to have tied up in a part that I may never need.

I'm not saying don't make the Daytona steel noses. But I am saying don't do it expecting to make any money.

[held1823]

The best customer for a steel Daytona nose is someone that owns a real Daytona that has been damaged in the front but how many times does that happen?

I know of a real one that fits that description, but saving up enough pennies will take quite a while. Until then, the car will have to sit, looking like a regular '70 charger to anyone who happens by while the garage door is up.

Good luck on the quest, and know that the effort is appreciated.

[randr]

not looking to make money. thinking more of  providing something that is not available. trying to get anything for a daytona is like pulling teeth! i will make nose cones this winter....dammit! 

[200MPH]

Trunk hinges??

[Patronus]

still planning a winter workshop?

[randr]

Yes.
though after seeing votes not sure people are willing to purchase them. Last cone on ebay sold for what $10,100.00! (oem supposedly)
i will be making some for sure! they will be correct! I bet they will fit better than the $10,100.00 nose does!

[panhead]

I'd love to see your product!!!    You have a good eye for detail. Instead of me making another one I my buy one of yours. You'll need to keep us up to date.

Curt.

[dreamcatcher]

Well good luck to you...you must have talent...hell I was spent after just getting my Janak stuff together and the hardest part was trying to MAKE IT FIT!!!   

[Old Moparz]

thinking about this for a winter project......

As much as I like to see someone start up some kind of project, I would think it might be more profitable to join up with one of the members on here, panhead, to make them by hand one at a time & then sell them. Have you seen his work?  

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,80368.0.html

Don't forget there are others making them, too, so the potential number of nose cones needed will be split up among a larger number. The other factor to consider is that the tight wads..... I mean, the budget conscious people like myself,    building a replica will never pay that kind of money for a part.  

Good luck, though.

[Patronus]

I would find more pleasure in making it myself, for sure. But Im a picky sob so I'd likely pull my hair out first. $4 large... aint too bad. I need a package deal with the wing.

[randr]

thinking about this for a winter project......

As much as I like to see someone start up some kind of project, I would think it might be more profitable to join up with one of the members on here, panhead, to make them by hand one at a time & then sell them. Have you seen his work?  

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,80368.0.html


Don't forget there are others making them, too, so the potential number of nose cones needed will be split up among a larger number. The other factor to consider is that the tight wads..... I mean, the budget conscious people like myself,    building a replica will never pay that kind of money for a part.  

Good luck, though.

I would not be doing it for making money....more so to provide an option for top of line cone at a fair price. I've had a steel nose on order from jack for 2 years! Still no nose!

[Patronus]

Still no nose??!? What did you end up with on your car then?
I would prefer steel, but thinking more resto-mod to custom so glass might be better.. what do those run $$?

[randr]

Janeck nose very nice part! Rest of all parts steel

[Old Moparz]

I would not be doing it for making money....more so to provide an option for top of line cone at a fair price. I've had a steel nose on order from jack for 2 years! Still no nose!

[/quote]


Understood. I've done similar things with carpentry projects & home repairs for friends. I like wood working, so helping out the "home repairingly challenged" can be a good thing. 

By the way, I have one of Ted's fiberglass nose cones & think it's a nice piece. 

[moparstuart]

Janeck nose very nice part! Rest of all parts steel

i would gladly trade you my steel shell for your loaded glass nose