Who designed the 2nd gen Charger?

[buckeyecharger]

I have owned a 1969 Charger since 1998 and the most popular comment I have always gotten is that it is one of the best designed or best looking cars of all time. Of course I agree! So....who from Chrysler is credited for designing the 2nd gen coke bottle Charger? This guy deserves more recognition. Something should be named after him on this forum.

[Piston_Freddy]

Richard Sias and Harvey J. Winn ?

[Charger440RDN]

I think that the designer came over to Chrysler from GM but I could be wrong. If you look at the Charger you will notice similar features to cars such as the 66 Pontiac GTO and Chevy 66 Chevelle Malibu with the sunken rear window and the side profile. Of course the Charger is the best looking car of that era though. The Chrysler designers did a real good job that has never been topped yet IMO on the 68-70 Charger.

[Brock Samson]

 
 Well the designs tended to leapfrog each other, GM was usually ahead by a Yr. or two with some exceptions like when the Virgil Exner Forward Look Mopars hit in '57, they cleaned every-bodies clock design-wise.
Then if you look at the rear windows of the '68 GMs and the '70 Intermediate Fords and then the '71 Mopar B-bods you'll see they too were following design trends.  These were general lee done as the result of new manufacturing processes and for more economical design practices, like simplification and the use of plastics in trim and such, which  came in about the 67-70 time frame as well for example.  In the case of the tunneled back window it was elegant design solution to achieve a faster profile as is detailed in the second link below. Ferrari had pioneered that design as early as 1964 for it's second Gen. GTOs and soon it spread to many other designs.
Beyond which - it was too bad the 5 MPH bumper standards came into play in '72 - (because of the Ford Thunderbirds' '70 beaked design and the Rivieras boat tailed rear were extremely vulnerable and expensive) as they had just gotten to the flushed out tight tolerances which looked so damn good.


http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,33008.0.html

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,14937.0.html

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,18047.0.html

Lots of threads on this site concern Richard Sias, you only have to do a search...

[XS29L9Bxxxxxx]

Bill Brownlie is the name I've always associated with the Dodge Chargers of that era 

[Brock Samson]

Lots of mistakes in this including a photo of a '69 diecast model car credited as being a '68... 
http://www.allpar.com/cars/dodge/charger-history.html
Allpar has the worst copyediting... 

Bill was NOT the designer Sias did the design work, Bill wanted to kill it.. read the article... sorry if it's hard to read...
  http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,14937.0.html
Little mention if any is made of the fact the Charger was originally slated to carry Turbine power...

[Brock Samson]

couple more of the a body Charger..

[Brock Samson]

here's some more related stuff, though more to the third Gen.. Still..

[Brock Samson]

sorry i left out a page... Apologies...      

[buckeyecharger]

Well..it looks like Sias is the answer. Thanks for the info. and loved the article Brock.  So what does everyone think...name something after Sias on this site? 

[BrianShaughnessy]

Well..it looks like Sias is the answer. Thanks for the info. and loved the article Brock.  So what does everyone think...name something after Sias on this site? 

Nah...  we already have too many forums anyway but thanks for bringing it up.  We need less forums and less fragmentation IMHO. 

Even then, the most important things happened for '69   

The 1969 model year brought few modifications. Exterior changes included a new grille with a center divider and new longitudinal taillights both designed by Harvey J. Winn.

[Brock Samson]

 

[Brock Samson]

  I got the pages out of order but you can pretty much read them I hope..

[Brock Samson]

 

[BigBlackDodge]

 Well the designs tended to leapfrog each other, GM was usually ahead by a Yr. or two with some exceptions like when the Virgil Exner Forward Look Mopars hit in '57, they cleaned every-bodies clock design-wise.
Then if you look at the rear windows of the '68 GMs and the '70 Intermediate Fords and then the '71 Mopar B-bods you'll see they too were following design trends.  These were general lee done as the result of new manufacturing processes and for more economical design practices, like simplification and the use of plastics in trim and such, which  came in about the 67-70 time frame as well for example.  In the case of the tunneled back window it was elegant design solution to achieve a faster profile as is detailed in the second link below. Ferrari had pioneered that design as early as 1964 for it's second Gen. GTOs and soon it spread to many other designs.
Beyond which - it was too bad the 5 MPH bumper standards came into play in '72 - (because of the Ford Thunderbirds' '70 beaked design and the Rivieras boat tailed rear were extremely vulnerable and expensive) as they had just gotten to the flushed out tight tolerances which looked so damn good.


http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,33008.0.html

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,14937.0.html

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,18047.0.html

Lots of threads on this site concern Richard Sias, you only have to do a search...

general lee? You've been hanging around on DC.com too much Brock!



BBD

[ACUDANUT]

It's a well kept secret, but I did.

[69*F5*SE]

I always heard that he designed the 2nd gen Charger while working at GM and brought the basic design with him to Chrysler   

[WV69RT]

Where is that Charger III these days? Nifty!

[73rallye440magnum]

On the 7th day God designed the '68 Charger.

[Nacho-RT74]

on Top Gear show, where they test the green 68 Charger R/T make mention to the designer

[Old Moparz]

Where is that Charger III these days? Nifty!

When I first saw these photos several years ago, I was worried that this was the Charger III's fate. It was one of my favorite show cars & I even had the toy version. After I had read that there were fiberglass versions made for racing, it made sense that these pics were of one of those left neglected somewhere. It would be great to one day find it at Carlisle on display.

[Iron Chef]

Bill was NOT the designer Sias did the design work, Bill wanted to kill it.. read the article... sorry if it's hard to read...

Brownlie also hated the 3rd Gen design too.

[ACUDANUT]

Where is that Charger III these days? Nifty!

In reality, a Charger III means a 3rd Gen Charger (imo). So, why would they even think of calling that thing that ?

[Brock Samson]

1964 Charger I

Charger
Although not entirely accurate (check the dates of the drawing Vs. the "'64 Polara" showcar) it does bring some new info to light.  http://auto.howstuffworks.com/1966-1967-dodge-charger2.htm
and http://auto.howstuffworks.com/1966-1967-dodge-charger3.htm
again the copy doesn't match the photos of the clay model shown, it refers obviously to the Polara baised Charger I
more info on the Proposed Turbine and an alternate '66-67 Grill design. http://auto.howstuffworks.com/1966-1967-dodge-charger5.htm


 1965 Dodge Dart "Charger 273" and based on the 1965 Dart GT.
 From Allpar: "There was also a 1965 Dart produced with the "Charger 273" name. 180 were made at the factory, and 300 kits were available to be dealer-installed. It was based on a Dart GT hardtop or convertible; all were yellow with a black top and interior, with the 273, 13X6 Cragar mag wheels, and Charger emblems. Lewis wrote that it had glass-pack mufflers for a nice roar, Cragar wheels, and Charger emblems for the engine bay".


Charger II

 In 1966 - "Much was made in the press releases of the Charger's being a production version of the Charger II show car that had been touring the auto show circuit for the past year".


Charger III

 under construction:

[Dan T]

Does anyone know if Mr.Sias, or Bill Brownlie are still alive?

[AKcharger]

Great post!     

[Bob T]

Thanks for taking the time to put up the Richard Sias article Brock, most interesting. Also, I had no idea about the CGT cars  

And a bit more newfound ( for me ) info on the CGT Cars

http://www.turbinecar.com/sia/sia57.htm

Hundreds of stories came out of the project. George Huebner once made the statement that Chrysler Turbines would run on anything which could flow through a pipe and burn with air. That statement was put to the test - several times and passed on each occasion. Turbines ran on unleaded gasoline, diesel, kerosene, JP-4, alcohol, Chanel ~5 and yes, Jimmy, peanut oil! However, one of the most interesting fuels ever to run the turbine was also the center of an episode of equal interest. George Huebner picks up the story: "The first car of the 50-car program was barely ready when it was - pressed into service on a world tour by Chrysler International. The car reached Mexico, and I got a call from one of the International people who said that the president of Mexico wanted to operate the turbine on tequila! I said that I thought it would work fine, but just the same. I went to the purchasing department the next morning and got two gallons of tequila. We drained the tank on engineering's car and dumped the two gallons in. The car ran all over Highland Park with no trouble. Meanwhile the president of Mexico ran the car there on tequila, but was later quite upset when reporters failed to mention that he was driving. The turbine and tequila stole the show, you might say."

[Brock Samson]

Does anyone know if Mr.Sias, or Bill Brownlie are still alive?

lost track of this thread...
Especially for the newbies.
Here's a thread a few yrs. old now on Carl Cameron death, designer of the First Gen Charger and the Challenger...
worth a look if you care about the Chargers designers...

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,18047.50.html

[Bob T]

Thanks for the link Brock. Some of the historic stories and anecdotes on D.C still continue to impress me, glad I stopped by.

Carl Cameron sounded like a true automotive legend and a great all-round guy. One of a great many team of top designers and visonaries


Back in 2003, Bob Hubbach from Chrysler USA ( Chief exterior stylist for the Australian Valiant Charger, tasked with developing the car in Australia ) came out here ( New Zealand ) for the R/T 6 Pack Club Nationals and was warmly received. He was the guest of honour over the weekend and spoke at the awards dinner with stories and anecdotes from the early days. Unfortunately I was not able to attend.
He also provided much insight for the ''Hey Charger" book which was subsequently written by Gary Bridger , and also provided fantastic watercolour renditions from the design studio at the time and his later work on the  1995 Chrysler Atlantic showcar and the 1996 Dodge Viper GTS coupe and 97 Dodge Copperhead showcar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_Atlantic

[Brock Samson]

maybe someday this can get all sorted out and be a sticky like the "proven combos" and "who wont be down for breakfast" threads... ya' know?.. so folks won't have to reinvent the wheel or have to - heaven forbid!    search for this stuff?...  

[sanders7981]

here's some more related stuff, though more to the third Gen.. Still..

SWEET JESUS!!!  Check out the prices for Hemi blocks in that ad!  $1397 for a stroker kit too!!!  I hate inflation...

[XS29LA47V21]

  I got the pages out of order but you can pretty much read them I hope..

I think I see muscle machine die cast in dar somewhere, check out that big fat coke bottle .