Bilingual at the work place... another try at this..

[Old Moparz]

It's definitely not simple to solve whether there is a law to protect the employee or the employer. What I mean is, even if a meeting were to be held & the language issue brought up & discussed, it gets complicated with race & legal issues. It ruins the entire work environment & people who are bigots will be bigots anyway. Instead of keeping it to themselves & being a closet bigot, it will be right up front for all to see. It could go very smoothly & nobody will be offended so then the issue is resolved. Maybe there's a human resource dept on line that may have a summarized outline of how to bring this up in the workplace without stirring up the crap.  

When I worked in a warehouse during college, 7 of the 10 guys there all spoke fluent Spanish & some were from another country. Some spoke English very well, some spoke a little English, & at least 2 of them barely spoke English at all. This made for a dangerous situation at times, like when we were unloading a truck. I was with 2 other guys, one who barely spoke English & one who spoke both well. They conversed in Spanish with what they were doing with the forklift & the 600 pound crate, but for whatever reason failed to clue me in. The crate tipped in my direction & fell over almost pinning me between the crate & the truck wall. They looked at me as if it were my fault & never realized the problem.

I quit, problem solved.

[69_500]

I'll put it like this.

Growing up in a foreign country taught me this. People world wide are typically bi-lingual. We here in America are spoiled, and don't worry about learning another language. With that said, however it is rude for people of one origion to talk in a foreign language in front of another group of people. If your wife has the power at her work, then I would say that she mandate a company policy to only speak English while at work other than during Spanish time. It would be a bonus for the Children, and would stop any thoughts the English speaking people have.

I can say this, at my school in Thailand, we all spoke, Thai, English and German. Now some people would talk German when in public because many Thai's speak a little English. They would only say something in German if they were saying something about a Thai person and they didn't want them to know what they were saying. Which is rude.

[hemi68charger]

Food for thought.. There has been court cases involving such an issue.... you read and draw your own conclusions...

http://www.centeronline.org/knowledge/whitepaper.cfm?ID=790&ContentProfileID=122177&Action=searching

http:http://library.findlaw.com/1998/Dec/1/129118.html

[TK73]

Coming here from another country and being bilingual makes sense. Coming here from another country and not being bilingual makes no sense. If immigrants enjoy being and keeping themselves handicapped with a language barrier I'd say they've got some motivational problems.

You are such a bigoted dufus that you did not even read what he said.  He said "The Latin teachers will be gathered, along with the English-only speaking teachers, and speak nothing but Spanish (all of which can speak perfectly good English)."    Nothing at all about coming from another country.  And, to top it all, he said that they speak perfect English.  You're bigotry is shameful.  Kim

Kim, I'm not sure I see anything "bigoted" in Bulls post. The same would apply for any of us moving to a foriegn country where the majority of natives speak another language, if I chose not to learn the native language I would certainly be socially handicapped.  As far as "motivational problems", he may br dead on, whether it be a person moving to the U.S. or an American moving to another country...

[TK73]

As far as the children; it would be to thier advantage to hear as much Spanish, classroom or otherwise, as possible while in school.

[bull]

Coming here from another country and being bilingual makes sense. Coming here from another country and not being bilingual makes no sense. If immigrants enjoy being and keeping themselves handicapped with a language barrier I'd say they've got some motivational problems.

You are such a bigoted dufus that you did not even read what he said.  He said "The Latin teachers will be gathered, along with the English-only speaking teachers, and speak nothing but Spanish (all of which can speak perfectly good English)."    Nothing at all about coming from another country.  And, to top it all, he said that they speak perfect English.  You're bigotry is shameful.  Kim

Kim, I'm not sure I see anything "bigoted" in Bulls post. The same would apply for any of us moving to a foriegn country where the majority of natives speak another language, if I chose not to learn the native language I would certainly be socially handicapped.  As far as "motivational problems", he may br dead on, whether it be a person moving to the U.S. or an American moving to another country...

That's all I was trying to say. I would not move to Germany without a good grasp of the country's prominant language. I may visit but it would be foolish of me to move there and try to excel if I couldn't effectively communicate and/or expected everyone to change but me. Kim's just got an agenda when it comes to anything and everything I write here. You'd think a liberal defense attorney would be more tolerant.

[hemi68charger]

True, but when babies are growing up, and I'm talking 17months to 5 years of age and their parents are English-speaking Anglos, the children need to learn one at a time. If they were submerged in a biligual family, then go for it.

[69_500]

Children grasp foreign languages faster than you would think. Many of the people I grew up around in thailand had small children that could speak English, Thai, Lisu, Lahu, or many of the other languages that are around in that are of thailand.

Kids heads are like a sponge, and when they are learning to speak english, its easy to pick up another language too. It really is, and its not confusing to the child per say, as it is to an adult.

HOwever I think there should be guidelines. They should make a company policy to only speak english except during the spanish time. That way no one can be offended by someone speaking spanish in front of someone else.

[Nacho-RT74]

Puedo opinar ? no quiero herir sentimientos, son solo opiniones...

1- Hasta donde yo se y lo digo porque no estoy seguro ya que no poseo total conocimento de ello, la Constitucion de Los Estados Unidos no tienen ni Lengua ni Religion Oficiales. El Ingles y la Iglesia Anglicana han sido simplemente "asumidas" como de uso común.

2-Mas de la mitad del territorio de los Estados Unidos ( y esto es MUY importante ) eran originalmente colonias de otros paises, como España y Francia, asi que ese seria el idioma original al menos de las partes territoriales de las colonias que el actual Este de Los Estados Unidos invadio en gran parte ilegalmente. Estamos hablando ya en la era Moderna de la historia de la Humanidad con culturas ya desarrolladas y bien entrado el siglo XIX.

3-Obviamente estamos dejando de lado los idiomas y culturas realmente originales de las poblaciones autoctonas indigenas que por cosas de la historia han sido simplemente desplazados a territorios llamados RESERVAS como si fuesen parques nacionales. No voy aponer en juicio esta parte.

4-Todos los Paises del Mundo adoptan un segundo lenguaje que por lo general es el Ingles. Yo si viajase a Estados Unidos tendria que saber las bases del Ingles al menos... pero los Angloparlantes cuando van a cualquier pais HispanoParlante no tienen NI IDEA del Español, mas alla de saludar y TIENE QUE SER UNO ESTANDO EN SU PROPIO PAIS el que les hable en Ingles. No me parece justo.


P.D.: he obviado la acentuacion en mi redaccion por simples motivos de flojera.


HAVE I BEEN CLEAR ? LOL

[Nacho-RT74]

But on the other side I'm also agree with Orange Crush about social education and try to share the same language at certains moments of convivence.

Spain is at same deal everyday with Basque and Catalunya provinces as the main ones with its own language ( there are another ones with its own language ) and convivence still is viable not only at work, also on streets what of course make it be harder to share, with maybe some minor problems with the CLOSED MINDS ppl what of course they do exist.

[Ponch ®]

True, but when babies are growing up, and I'm talking 17months to 5 years of age and their parents are English-speaking Anglos, the children need to learn one at a time. 

actually, no.

Example - here in L.A., most little "anglo" kids have babysitters from Mexico and El Salvador...these kids are spoken to in both languages and they usually end up speaking both just fine. I have a two little cousins whose 'home' language is english. My grandma babysat both since they were babies, and she only spoke spanish to them. The older one (who is 8 now) can be having a conversation in spanish with grandma, and then turn to me and start speaking english without having to think about it. He can turn it on and off just like that. Here is where it gets even more interesting - their dad is Serbian, so whenever his parents come visit from the old country, they can only speak to their grandkids in their language.The youngest one, who is 2 1/2, actually understands 3 languages at this point (spanish, english, serbian). Who knows though...Its entirely possible that my cousins are just smarter than most kids. They are related to me, after all. 

Kim is right though - the english only teachers should make a learning experience out of it. Forget the "this is america, and we speak english here" B.S. Ideally, thats the way it ougtta be. I'm one of those people who thinks that bilingual education is a waste of time and that hispanic people are doing themselves a disservice if they only watch spanish tv and radio and make no effort to learn english. Having said that, for better or worse, in a few years you wont be able to go anywhere if you dont speak at least two languages - ESPECIALLY in places like Texas and California.

[last426]

Coming here from another country and being bilingual makes sense. Coming here from another country and not being bilingual makes no sense. If immigrants enjoy being and keeping themselves handicapped with a language barrier I'd say they've got some motivational problems.

You are such a bigoted dufus that you did not even read what he said.  He said "The Latin teachers will be gathered, along with the English-only speaking teachers, and speak nothing but Spanish (all of which can speak perfectly good English)."    Nothing at all about coming from another country.  And, to top it all, he said that they speak perfect English.  You're bigotry is shameful.  Kim

If your head wasn't made of concrete, and you weren't so hellbent on following me around this board with lame attempts at "setting me straight," your warped mind would have ascertained that I was making a separate point on a similar issue.

Tell you what, if you stop your evangelical and bigotted posts and stop pming "god loves you" messages to me, I will stop setting you straight.  Until then, if the hood fits, wear it.  Vaya con dios.  Kim

[Ponch ®]

  Vaya con dios.  Kim

This is America! Speak English!

[dkn1997]

True, but when babies are growing up, and I'm talking 17months to 5 years of age and their parents are English-speaking Anglos, the children need to learn one at a time. 

actually, no.

Example - here in L.A., most little "anglo" kids have babysitters from Mexico and El Salvador...these kids are spoken to in both languages and they usually end up speaking both just fine. I have a two little cousins whose 'home' language is english. My grandma babysat both since they were babies, and she only spoke spanish to them. The older one (who is 8 now) can be having a conversation in spanish with grandma, and then turn to me and start speaking english without having to think about it. He can turn it on and off just like that. Here is where it gets even more interesting - their dad is Serbian, so whenever his parents come visit from the old country, they can only speak to their grandkids in their language.The youngest one, who is 2 1/2, actually understands 3 languages at this point (spanish, english, serbian). Who knows though...Its entirely possible that my cousins are just smarter than most kids. They are related to me, after all. 

Kim is right though - the english only teachers should make a learning experience out of it. Forget the "this is america, and we speak english here" B.S. Ideally, thats the way it ougtta be. I'm one of those people who thinks that bilingual education is a waste of time and that hispanic people are doing themselves a disservice if they only watch spanish tv and radio and make no effort to learn english. Having said that, for better or worse, in a few years you wont be able to go anywhere if you dont speak at least two languages - ESPECIALLY in places like Texas and California.

Of course, I agree with ponch/mojo/iceman on the perverted stuff, that's a given.  But I agree with the above also.

a bilingual cooworker brought up an interesting point:  a lot of the south american people that come here do not have much education and cannot even read and write spanish that well, so how can they just pick up english cold turkey?  definately something to consider.  My exterminator is spanish and he says "f them if they can't learn english"  then my cooworker brings up the other point.....hmmm......I know it's o/t, but it is related, so please don't call me dufus even though my toes are big.

[triple_green]

Interesting thread. My mother was raised by a German immigrant father. He was highly educated and spoke six languages himself. They were raised to speak only English in their household. Even after people harased my Grandfather (who was a Pastor, and hated Hitler) during WWII, he still was proud to be an American. My mother never learned any other language than English.

In our area there are lots of Russian and SE asian immigrants. The Kent schools accomodate 32 different languages. I have mixed feelings about what is being said here. I can tell you that the spanish speaking and SE asians are providing us with the next generation, not the WASPs.

new topic: Kim, do you know Mark Prothero?

3X

[hemi68charger]

True, but when babies are growing up, and I'm talking 17months to 5 years of age and their parents are English-speaking Anglos, the children need to learn one at a time. 

actually, no.

Example - here in L.A., most little "anglo" kids have babysitters from Mexico and El Salvador...these kids are spoken to in both languages and they usually end up speaking both just fine. I have a two little cousins whose 'home' language is english. My grandma babysat both since they were babies, and she only spoke spanish to them. The older one (who is 8 now) can be having a conversation in spanish with grandma, and then turn to me and start speaking english without having to think about it. He can turn it on and off just like that. Here is where it gets even more interesting - their dad is Serbian, so whenever his parents come visit from the old country, they can only speak to their grandkids in their language.The youngest one, who is 2 1/2, actually understands 3 languages at this point (spanish, english, serbian). Who knows though...Its entirely possible that my cousins are just smarter than most kids. They are related to me, after all. 

Kim is right though - the english only teachers should make a learning experience out of it. Forget the "this is america, and we speak english here" B.S. Ideally, thats the way it ougtta be. I'm one of those people who thinks that bilingual education is a waste of time and that hispanic people are doing themselves a disservice if they only watch spanish tv and radio and make no effort to learn english. Having said that, for better or worse, in a few years you wont be able to go anywhere if you dont speak at least two languages - ESPECIALLY in places like Texas and California.

Of course, I agree with ponch/mojo/iceman on the perverted stuff, that's a given.  But I agree with the above also.

a bilingual cooworker brought up an interesting point:  a lot of the south american people that come here do not have much education and cannot even read and write spanish that well, so how can they just pick up english cold turkey?  definately something to consider.  My exterminator is spanish and he says "f them if they can't learn english"  then my cooworker brings up the other point.....hmmm......I know it's o/t, but it is related, so please don't call me dufus even though my toes are big.

That is a good point, BUT......  Just because someone comes here, by choice, that doesn't make them the center of attention and all others needing to comform to them......... Again, I've said it before, I would never think of going to say, Argentina, and expect the masses to cater to me.. In this work environment, it's expected that employees speak English. They are in charge of our most valuable asset, our children. I for one wouldn't want my child being taken care of by someone that couldn't communicate effectively...... Immigration has become such a hot topic and it seems that everyone must comform to the "new" guy.. Why?  But, that's not even the issue here.. It's a case with ALL the hispanic staff speaking perfectly good English.. This isn't a case with some new immigrate coming here.. First, they wouldn't have gotten the job.... This is simply a case of someone caring about someone else's feelings...... I guess I could go around talking French and see how others react... Aren't too many French speaking people in Houston.. lol

Again, let's not deviate from my initial question, that of discomfort of the workplace and the barriers/walls created by such actions by biligual staff members must be keep to a minimum. Why should someone born here have to deal with an uneasy situation.... Yes, I know, all could call that person paranoid, but, it's human nature and alas, must be treated and everyone put on an even ground...... There's one possible solution and that would be to hire English only speaking staff.. Now,,, That WILL not work !!!  It goes against every equal opportunity criteria this country has.. But, if an employer wishes to have a workplace environment the way they want to, then what's wrong with that? Why should the employer constantly have to adjust themselves and cater endlessly to an employee?  Some of the stuff this country is doing is getting way out of hand......

I speak somewhat two additional languages; Spanish and French, so, I'm not jaded by the spoiled American-syndrome some people have pointed out.. But, alas, this is the United States of America, not the Diverse States of America.. With that being said, the country needs to have some form of unity in all facets of life; from the home to the workplace..... but, at the same time, the ability to have self-goals and interests as long as they don't interfer with the quality of life of others....

Troy

[Charger_Fan]

...and stop pming "god loves you" messages to me, I will stop setting you straight. 

Not taking any sides here, but that's friggin' funny!

[hemihead]

I totally agree with Troy this time, amazing. 

[hemi68charger]

I totally agree with Troy this time, amazing. 

Hey !!!  wait a minute... Is it me you never agree with or all others... 

[bull]

Coming here from another country and being bilingual makes sense. Coming here from another country and not being bilingual makes no sense. If immigrants enjoy being and keeping themselves handicapped with a language barrier I'd say they've got some motivational problems.

You are such a bigoted dufus that you did not even read what he said.  He said "The Latin teachers will be gathered, along with the English-only speaking teachers, and speak nothing but Spanish (all of which can speak perfectly good English)."    Nothing at all about coming from another country.  And, to top it all, he said that they speak perfect English.  You're bigotry is shameful.  Kim

If your head wasn't made of concrete, and you weren't so hellbent on following me around this board with lame attempts at "setting me straight," your warped mind would have ascertained that I was making a separate point on a similar issue.

Tell you what, if you stop your evangelical and bigotted posts and stop pming "god loves you" messages to me, I will stop setting you straight.  Until then, if the hood fits, wear it.  Vaya con dios.  Kim

I sent you one as a joke you ding-dong. Evangelical and bigotted posts? Kiss it freak show.

[hemi68charger]

Coming here from another country and being bilingual makes sense. Coming here from another country and not being bilingual makes no sense. If immigrants enjoy being and keeping themselves handicapped with a language barrier I'd say they've got some motivational problems.

You are such a bigoted dufus that you did not even read what he said.  He said "The Latin teachers will be gathered, along with the English-only speaking teachers, and speak nothing but Spanish (all of which can speak perfectly good English)."    Nothing at all about coming from another country.  And, to top it all, he said that they speak perfect English.  You're bigotry is shameful.  Kim

If your head wasn't made of concrete, and you weren't so hellbent on following me around this board with lame attempts at "setting me straight," your warped mind would have ascertained that I was making a separate point on a similar issue.

Tell you what, if you stop your evangelical and bigotted posts and stop pming "god loves you" messages to me, I will stop setting you straight.  Until then, if the hood fits, wear it.  Vaya con dios.  Kim

I sent you one as a joke you ding-dong. Evangelical and bigotted posts? Kiss it freak show.

OK guys,, you can email each other your niceties... 

[hemihead]

I totally agree with Troy this time, amazing. 

Hey !!!  wait a minute... Is it me you never agree with or all others... 

It's everyone in general. Sometimes I don't agree with even myself lol 

[hemi68charger]

I totally agree with Troy this time, amazing. 

Hey !!!  wait a minute... Is it me you never agree with or all others... 

It's everyone in general. Sometimes I don't agree with even myself lol 

Man, that's what my wife says......   

[hemihead]

I don't have a wife anymore, she wanted other men and I didn't agree with that 

[Nacho-RT74]

Puedo opinar ? no quiero herir sentimientos, son solo opiniones...

1- Hasta donde yo se y lo digo porque no estoy seguro ya que no poseo total conocimento de ello, la Constitucion de Los Estados Unidos no tienen ni Lengua ni Religion Oficiales. El Ingles y la Iglesia Anglicana han sido simplemente "asumidas" como de uso común.

2-Mas de la mitad del territorio de los Estados Unidos ( y esto es MUY importante ) eran originalmente colonias de otros paises, como España y Francia, asi que ese seria el idioma original al menos de las partes territoriales de las colonias que el actual Este de Los Estados Unidos invadio en gran parte ilegalmente. Estamos hablando ya en la era Moderna de la historia de la Humanidad con culturas ya desarrolladas y bien entrado el siglo XIX.

3-Obviamente estamos dejando de lado los idiomas y culturas realmente originales de las poblaciones autoctonas indigenas que por cosas de la historia han sido simplemente desplazados a territorios llamados RESERVAS como si fuesen parques nacionales. No voy aponer en juicio esta parte.

4-Todos los Paises del Mundo adoptan un segundo lenguaje que por lo general es el Ingles. Yo si viajase a Estados Unidos tendria que saber las bases del Ingles al menos... pero los Angloparlantes cuando van a cualquier pais HispanoParlante no tienen NI IDEA del Español, mas alla de saludar y TIENE QUE SER UNO ESTANDO EN SU PROPIO PAIS el que les hable en Ingles. No me parece justo.


P.D.: he obviado la acentuacion en mi redaccion por simples motivos de flojera.


HAVE I BEEN CLEAR ? LOL

Then does nobody have some complaint about this ? LOL