just recieved qoute for tremec from keisler

[dayclona]

I buy a Gear vendor long before the Keisler.

Apples and oranges... especially if you're talking putting a GV behind a 727.

I'm sure the GV is an easier install, but it's not cheap either, and you can only get ~20% overdrive.

Keisler may oversell the ease of installation aspect and I think a lot of customers get in over their heads, but if you can swap a motor, you can install a Tremec.

That said, if you want and auto and an OD, the GV is [currently] the only way to go. If you like to shift your own, it's hard to beat the Keisler/Tremec when converting from an auto. If I already had a four speed car, I'd probably install the GV, but I'd be looking closely at the new Passon OD.

   


   Gonna throw the 2 cents in here!............no "plugs" for anyone!, just what I've experienced!...................The Gear Vendors, I've done the GV on the  auto 727, the Gv on the Hemi 18 slipe box,...................it's an OK unit, but a electronic "brain" controls the unit, we've experienced the unit "dropping out"! not fun with 391/410 rear gears at 100 mph+!!!!!!!!.................so the manufacturer says it's a ground problem. then later a program unit "box" problem...................reolved, yes?............but the day something else "drops out"! better hope it ain't the bottom end of your motor when it hits a gazillion RPM!......cause that what it sounds like!..............several years back,I had heard about the Keiser units, didn't give two hoots!............that was until I drove a car so equipped!........I was sold on them that day,.since then we've installed MANY Keisler's..............they have greatly simplified the install over the years, and yes I run them in my own cars !........And yes they are $$$$$$, but after you've bitten the "bullet" and bought/ installed one, you will thank your self.............My personal recommendations are: use the Borg/ beck/ long style disc made by Sachs, that Keisler supplys,...........the diapham , or "heavy duty diapham disc they try to push! is for yuppies that drive like pussies!.........it hangs up at high RPM shifts!, I've warn My customers to avoid that disc! but they insist upon it!, later they insist it be removed!........one of those "I told you so"s!, that go unheeded!........the .64 Tremec is the best bet!.......not only lower ratio, but superior internals!.......bell housing, BUY the Keisler unit, no headaches!....period!,......clutch linkage? if you like the "feel" of where the "clutch is", in relationship to engaging the clutch, then mechanical linkage is for you,.........the hydraulic set-up is nice, but very little "feel" is their! in regards to knowing where the "clutch is",............street/ drag racers now what I'm talking about!......none the less, pedal effort is non exsistant with the hyd. set-up!..........it is sweet to cruise the hi-way with 410's in 5th @2200-2500 rpm @90-100mph!, and still tear it up on the street! with tall gears/ Tremec's 1/2/3 gear combo, Gear Vendors could offer me a free overdrive!, and I would refuse it!... I'd drop the coin on the Keisler!......which I don't enjoy do'in!.......but I remind myself the end result will justify the cost!....if your installing the 5 spd where a auto once resided, install a factory manual tranny tunnel, don't listen to Keislers "sell" on the peice of "sheet metal" they supply you!,......the more room the happier you'll be installing/ servicing your tranny!.........we've installed Keislers Tremecs in allmost every body style/ engine combo.....with NO major headaches!...........now if I could just get one of those Keisler 4 gear Automatics!!!!!!, I have the perfect project car for for it!.......Keisler are you listening???



Mike G/ DAYCLONA

[Ghoste]

Their automatic is out now isn't it?  A Chevy trans?

[BrianShaughnessy]

Their automatic is out now isn't it?  A Chevy trans?

Ehrenberg was waiting on the auto kit back in the fall for the Beeper...  wasn't too thrilled when we found out it was the 4L65 which has the same annoying gear spead as the 700R4.    He was hoping for a 4L80 gear spread that was similar to the 727's.    Last I asked it still hadn't shown up but he did receive an upgrade .64 5 speed for the Green Brick when we were there.   

Anyhoo,  thanks for the info Mike.   I hadn't heard of anybody else recommending the sachs B&B clutch but I take your word on it for the number of jobs you've done.   I haven't noticed those problems with the diaphragm but who knows.
Personally I like the hydraulic but I'm still leary of it due to the bleeding problems I had.    I really don't like old Z bar manual linkage too much at all.   I'd settle for a cable linkage if there was a way.

[cold85]

well i think that saving 1500.00 dollars is worth it to me to have to do some fabrication i will let you all know what was involved and how much i spent when i get done.

[Rolling_Thunder]

yeah - my boss and i have built many B/E body OD transmissions for customers.... swap gear sets with a regular 4-speed and bam... OD for the masses.... now Passon does it and chages a left nut - so i mean people have done it for years - why the all of a sudden big deal ?

Ok, did you read anything about it??? Try it. It is hardly a gear swap. Did yours have an 18 spline input shaft? I doubt it. That's one of the main differences. It doesn't take a whole lot to change a transmission (or gear sets) but it does actually take a lot of R&D to redesign the thing from the ground up. My problem is that I can blow up 8-10 regular transmissions for the cost of one of those things but it's still cheaper than a Keisler and it looks more "correct". If I didn't already have too many transmissions I'd consider it. At least do some research before knocking the product.

Troy

I was not knocking the product...  not meant to sound like i was,  but i mean i'm sure people have been doing the OD trans swaps for years...   but everywhere i look i now see the Passon thing....      i was just curious as to why it is such a big deal...      18 spline...   thats nice...       I've never actually seen a 23 spline break though....    my boss had a blown 440 in his truck and was running a 23 spline OD 4-speed and a 741 case 3.55....    never had any problems with either regaurding their stregnth.     

[Ghoste]

I've broken a couple.  Not in many years, but I have done it.

[MyMopar]

Just want to add my 2 cents about the trans.  I installed one of those aluminum case OD units in my 69 charger w/440.  Damn thing blew out on me during my honeymoon in Virginia Beach.  I was able to limp it home (Connecticut) but it wasn't pretty.  So they are weaker than a regular A-833 and if you like to drive the car more than "cruise" in it, you'll wish you ha a stronger trans.  My mani concern is worrying about blowing parts up, but you don't cheap out then you don't have to worry.
I was considering the Keisler route and the Passon route.  I know I want strength and an overdrive gear, they both offer me that, one for considerably less.  I guess the big thing will be how much $$$ you want to spend.  I think the 440's have enough torque to compensate for 1 less gear (meaning Keisler 5 speed vs. Passon 4) so I'm going the Passon route and using the extra money I would have spent on the motor/rear end.

[PocketThunder]

www.passonperformance.com

for those of you looking...

[694spdRT]

Just want to add my 2 cents about the trans.  I installed one of those aluminum case OD units in my 69 charger w/440.  Damn thing blew out on me during my honeymoon in Virginia Beach.  I was able to limp it home (Connecticut) but it wasn't pretty.  So they are weaker than a regular A-833 and if you like to drive the car more than "cruise" in it, you'll wish you ha a stronger trans.  My mani concern is worrying about blowing parts up, but you don't cheap out then you don't have to worry.
I was considering the Keisler route and the Passon route.  I know I want strength and an overdrive gear, they both offer me that, one for considerably less.  I guess the big thing will be how much $$$ you want to spend.  I think the 440's have enough torque to compensate for 1 less gear (meaning Keisler 5 speed vs. Passon 4) so I'm going the Passon route and using the extra money I would have spent on the motor/rear end.

Was the OD broke from the power of the 440 or wore out? Just wondering because the one I am building is going behind either a 318 or 360 Magnum...not sure which right now but, neither will have the torque of the 440.

[Ghoste]

IIRC, don't the factory OD trans have an issue with very fast wearing?  No bushings in the case or something goofy like that?

[Rolling_Thunder]

i know the OD trans use the larger front bearing and retainer because 4th gear is actually 3rd so it is said to wear out quicker....   wether it is true or not i am not positive....    i also hear that put alot of torque to the OD gear and it will knock teeth right off of it....     like i said - my boss ran a OD trans in his truck that had a blown 440 in it...  he never had a problem and I can honestly say he drove that thing hard....    so now hes having a 1100hp hemi built....   

[694spdRT]

IIRC, don't the factory OD trans have an issue with very fast wearing?  No bushings in the case or something goofy like that?

I think with the aluminum cased ones (I guess some of the early ones had a cast case) there is a wear issue with the counter shaft. The bearing retainer is larger than any other Mopar so it needs to be turned down for big blocks or a matching OD bellhousing should be used with a small block.

Here is a good article on them.

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techarticles/40618/

[G-Series]

I'll second Mike's post, and add: we've done the GV behind both the auto and 4speed.  Other than what Mike mentioned about the dropping out(they should have had the default be OD, not 1;1) consider that you will have to open your exhaust system(make the pipes bend around the GV unit) to accommodate it, as well as fab your own/modify your original cross member.  The amount of cutting required makes the original so weak, that you'll have to strengthen it by welding some steel inside it. The GV unit gives you a 22% drop in rpm.  IMO, no where near enough drop for the $$ spent.  Next you'll have to have your shaft shortened; actually, having a new one made is cheaper and better than trying to shorten the 'stepped' shafts that come in our cars.  When you add in your costs, the unit, shaft, and time to modify the exh. and the cross member, you're at the base cost for the Keisler system which gives you a .68/32% drop in rpm.
I've done them with 3.91, 4.10 and even 3.54's and the bigger the drop in rpm the better. 5th is for crusing, listening to the CD, and enjoying the view as you blast down the hiway.  We ran the 71 Bird on the Hotrod Power Tour cruising anywhere between 80 and 130mph, for 1200 miles in one week.  It was so much fun, we're doing it again this year.
You won't have to wait much longer for the Keisler auto OD, it's almost ready for public consumption. They want to make sure every aspect of it is thoroughly tested and retested so we get the best auto OD trans on the market. And yes, I do have a mole on the inside.

[dayclona]

I'll second Mike's post, and add: we've done the GV behind both the auto and 4speed.  Other than what Mike mentioned about the dropping out(they should have had the default be OD, not 1;1) consider that you will have to open your exhaust system(make the pipes bend around the GV unit) to accommodate it, as well as fab your own/modify your original cross member.  The amount of cutting required makes the original so weak, that you'll have to strengthen it by welding some steel inside it. The GV unit gives you a 22% drop in rpm.  IMO, no where near enough drop for the $$ spent.  Next you'll have to have your shaft shortened; actually, having a new one made is cheaper and better than trying to shorten the 'stepped' shafts that come in our cars.  When you add in your costs, the unit, shaft, and time to modify the exh. and the cross member, you're at the base cost for the Keisler system which gives you a .68/32% drop in rpm.
I've done them with 3.91, 4.10 and even 3.54's and the bigger the drop in rpm the better. 5th is for crusing, listening to the CD, and enjoying the view as you blast down the hiway.  We ran the 71 Bird on the Hotrod Power Tour cruising anywhere between 80 and 130mph, for 1200 miles in one week.  It was so much fun, we're doing it again this year.
You won't have to wait much longer for the Keisler auto OD, it's almost ready for public consumption. They want to make sure every aspect of it is thoroughly tested and retested so we get the best auto OD trans on the market. And yes, I do have a mole on the inside.

                                 I know that mole, he's "gray" and fuzzie! and slippery like warm "butta"




Mike G/ DAYCLONA

[chargervert]

It's nice to mole you!mole mole mole mole mole mole mole! Knock it off Austin!

[MyMopar]

694spdRT - It could have just been an abuse thing.  I did drive it hard and ended up getting some gear clash and stripped teeth.  A 318 or 360 will have no problem but it would be worth a rebuild if you pick one up from an unknown background.