just recieved qoute for tremec from keisler

[cold85]

just got the qoute from keisler for new 5-speed clutch flywheel and hydrc clutch. it was all 4400.00 dollars. I know that they are great but i think i may keep my four speed and buy a supercharger instead.

[Blown70]

just got the qoute from keisler for new 5-speed clutch flywheel and hydrc clutch. it was all 4400.00 dollars. I know that they are great but i think i may keep my four speed and buy a supercharger instead.

SWEEEEEEEET another SUPERCHARER   

[Troy]

just got the qoute from keisler for new 5-speed clutch flywheel and hydrc clutch. it was all 4400.00 dollars. I know that they are great but i think i may keep my four speed and buy a supercharger instead.

Just imagine the cost if you were switching from an automatic. Have you looked into the 4-speed overdrive from Passon yet? Same case, same clutch, same mounts, same shifter, etc. as original but 3rd gear is 1:1 and 4th is overdrive (.80 I believe).

Troy

[BrianShaughnessy]

It'll probably cost more than that when you're done with it.    There's some leeway... like shipping your bell to them and them redrilling it or buying an aluminum one like I did or a lakewood and also you could take the hacksaw to your hurst handle and save the cost of the new shifter.   
The Passon will be a nice alternative for some people.   

Either way,  ask Ken how much he spent on his blower motor.   If your present motor is built the right way to add a blower to it, more power to you.         

[6pkrunner]

C'mon - you spend more than $4400 on wife and/or girlfriend over a year or so. But the real love of your life isn't worth $4400? Just to have a 4.10 or 3.91 rear and be able to get decent RPM and mileage on the highway is worth that - isn't it?
While I also dearly love a blower motor (nothing says snotty like a 6-71 or larger sticking up through the hood) you will be into the motor for over that amount. I know you know this and are saying thr $4400 is a down payment on the huffer.
I'd love to be able to use 3.91s on the highway again without cringing at the fuel bills.

[is_it_EVER_done?]

Just imagine the cost if you were switching from an automatic.

I just received mine and it came out to $5,152.00 with the $150.00 discount, and I had my own set of pedals. This was with all the offered upgrades, and a few others that I specified.

Though I had no reason to check on a Manuel to Manuel conversion, I doubt that it would cost much (if anything) less, due to bell housing modifications w/shipping, The great thing is that the Keisler will work with an automatic or 4-spd. console without modifications, can use a much stronger clutch and pressure plate than Manuel linkage, and comes with every conceivable part necessary (from drive shaft to pilot bearing).

Personally, I think it's one of the best bargains offered to the Mopar world. I can't even conceive of the time - effort - money that it would take to do it at the component level.

I did check into one of Jamie's transmissions, but for an auto to Manuel conversion (complete), it was only a few hundred less. If you were upgrading a 4-speed car, Jamie's set up would be MUCH, MUCH more cost efficient if you kept all the related stock components.

Since I drive my cars year round, and sometime long distances, the Keisler conversion is the best bargain around, plus their customer service (for me) has been second to none.

[Rolling_Thunder]

well the Darkhorse kit is Way less than that but it takes a little cutting and welding to get it in....    the only think i had to purchase for the kit was some nuts and bolts for the scattershield.....   everything else i had laying around and fabricated....     total cost was around $3500 -- thats for an auto to manual swap

[doctorpimp]

You do kinda shudder at the quote, when you first get it...
But, you do pay for quality and R&D etc; The end product is worth it.  The only complaints I've heard are to do with customer service, but I think Keisler has modernized it's customer care and improved.  The end product is worth the investment.

[cold85]

Well just ordered my trans from libert'y trans. in michigan. I paid 1700.00 and i can fab up the driveshaft and crossmember for less than 2000 dollars. All i have to do is drill a few holes for the trans to mount to my bell housing. or i could buy the lakewood.

[41husk]

C'mon - you spend more than $4400 on wife and/or girlfriend over a year or so. But the real love of your life isn't worth $4400? Just to have a 4.10 or 3.91 rear and be able to get decent RPM and mileage on the highway is worth that - isn't it?
While I also dearly love a blower motor (nothing says snotty like a 6-71 or larger sticking up through the hood) you will be into the motor for over that amount. I know you know this and are saying thr $4400 is a down payment on the huffer.
I'd love to be able to use 3.91s on the highway again without cringing at the fuel bills.

I like the way you think, If you diddn't live so far away I would have to buy you a beer!

[Rolling_Thunder]

Well just ordered my trans from libert'y trans. in michigan. I paid 1700.00 and i can fab up the driveshaft and crossmember for less than 2000 dollars. All i have to do is drill a few holes for the trans to mount to my bell housing. or i could buy the lakewood.

well the pattern is a stock GM bolt pattern...     my scattershield came with dual bolt patterns for both the Tremec and a regular 833...   

[SuBLimE 69]

I buy a Gear vendor long before the Keisler.  Heard some nightmares about the install, even read about a few on this board.

[Ghoste]

I was a bit of a Keisler skeptic not that long ago but I have to admit, 471Magnum put one in his car and I had a chance to look it over last summer and I came away pretty impressed.

[471_Magnum]

I buy a Gear vendor long before the Keisler.

Apples and oranges... especially if you're talking putting a GV behind a 727.

I'm sure the GV is an easier install, but it's not cheap either, and you can only get ~20% overdrive.

Keisler may oversell the ease of installation aspect and I think a lot of customers get in over their heads, but if you can swap a motor, you can install a Tremec.

That said, if you want and auto and an OD, the GV is [currently] the only way to go. If you like to shift your own, it's hard to beat the Keisler/Tremec when converting from an auto. If I already had a four speed car, I'd probably install the GV, but I'd be looking closely at the new Passon OD.

[Rolling_Thunder]

i dont understand the big deal about the Passon OD tranmission....   it is a stock OD 4-speed isnt it ?

[68ChargerJMP]

Factory 4 speeds werent O.D...The Passon is.

[Ghoste]

Basically.  It is an updated version so it's a little more rugged than the original Chrysler od unit and IIRC it has a different 1-2 split to make it a more efficient 3 speed for musclecar use.
I think the attraction is that it's a bolt in unit.

[Troy]

i dont understand the big deal about the Passon OD tranmission....   it is a stock OD 4-speed isnt it ?

No, not hardly. Here's a thread about it:
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,4846.0.html

Factory 4 speeds werent O.D...The Passon is.

The factory did make a 4-speed OD that fits in our cars but it wasn't offered until later on in the 70s. Same case dimensions though.

Troy

[Ghoste]

And not real famous for their ability to withstand torque or last a long time even with normal use.

[Troy]

And not real famous for their ability to withstand torque or last a long time even with normal use.

Right, which is why Passon redesigned them to make them stronger and charges about 10X what a used original would cost.

Of course Chryco has run an OD behind a race car too so they have to handle at least a little abuse. One bonus of the stock mopar OD is the aluminum case which is a lot lighter than ours. The Passon units are all built on aluminum cases.

Troy

[Rolling_Thunder]

yeah - my boss and i have built many B/E body OD transmissions for customers....     swap gear sets with a regular 4-speed and bam...   OD for the masses....      now Passon does it and chages a left nut - so i mean people have done it for years - why the all of a sudden big deal ?   

[Silver R/T]

just got the qoute from keisler for new 5-speed clutch flywheel and hydrc clutch. it was all 4400.00 dollars. I know that they are great but i think i may keep my four speed and buy a supercharger instead.

thats not installed is it

[Ghoste]

yeah - my boss and i have built many B/E body OD transmissions for customers....     swap gear sets with a regular 4-speed and bam...   OD for the masses....      now Passon does it and chages a left nut - so i mean people have done it for years - why the all of a sudden big deal ?   

Because they advertise in national magazines.
Actually, I think they are using new cases too with some updates.

[Troy]

yeah - my boss and i have built many B/E body OD transmissions for customers.... swap gear sets with a regular 4-speed and bam... OD for the masses.... now Passon does it and chages a left nut - so i mean people have done it for years - why the all of a sudden big deal ?

Ok, did you read anything about it??? Try it. It is hardly a gear swap. Did yours have an 18 spline input shaft? I doubt it. That's one of the main differences. It doesn't take a whole lot to change a transmission (or gear sets) but it does actually take a lot of R&D to redesign the thing from the ground up. My problem is that I can blow up 8-10 regular transmissions for the cost of one of those things but it's still cheaper than a Keisler and it looks more "correct". If I didn't already have too many transmissions I'd consider it. At least do some research before knocking the product.

Troy

[694spdRT]

The factory OD gear is 0.69 and 1st is a low 3.09 so that is another difference. The gear spacing on the original OD looks like a compromise at best but, for the $200 I spent on the tranny it is worth a try.

For the record I have nearly as much in buying and rebuilding my standard 18 spline 4 speed as Passon charges for theirs and I bought the tranny almost 10 years ago.

[dayclona]

I buy a Gear vendor long before the Keisler.

Apples and oranges... especially if you're talking putting a GV behind a 727.

I'm sure the GV is an easier install, but it's not cheap either, and you can only get ~20% overdrive.

Keisler may oversell the ease of installation aspect and I think a lot of customers get in over their heads, but if you can swap a motor, you can install a Tremec.

That said, if you want and auto and an OD, the GV is [currently] the only way to go. If you like to shift your own, it's hard to beat the Keisler/Tremec when converting from an auto. If I already had a four speed car, I'd probably install the GV, but I'd be looking closely at the new Passon OD.

   


   Gonna throw the 2 cents in here!............no "plugs" for anyone!, just what I've experienced!...................The Gear Vendors, I've done the GV on the  auto 727, the Gv on the Hemi 18 slipe box,...................it's an OK unit, but a electronic "brain" controls the unit, we've experienced the unit "dropping out"! not fun with 391/410 rear gears at 100 mph+!!!!!!!!.................so the manufacturer says it's a ground problem. then later a program unit "box" problem...................reolved, yes?............but the day something else "drops out"! better hope it ain't the bottom end of your motor when it hits a gazillion RPM!......cause that what it sounds like!..............several years back,I had heard about the Keiser units, didn't give two hoots!............that was until I drove a car so equipped!........I was sold on them that day,.since then we've installed MANY Keisler's..............they have greatly simplified the install over the years, and yes I run them in my own cars !........And yes they are $$$$$$, but after you've bitten the "bullet" and bought/ installed one, you will thank your self.............My personal recommendations are: use the Borg/ beck/ long style disc made by Sachs, that Keisler supplys,...........the diapham , or "heavy duty diapham disc they try to push! is for yuppies that drive like pussies!.........it hangs up at high RPM shifts!, I've warn My customers to avoid that disc! but they insist upon it!, later they insist it be removed!........one of those "I told you so"s!, that go unheeded!........the .64 Tremec is the best bet!.......not only lower ratio, but superior internals!.......bell housing, BUY the Keisler unit, no headaches!....period!,......clutch linkage? if you like the "feel" of where the "clutch is", in relationship to engaging the clutch, then mechanical linkage is for you,.........the hydraulic set-up is nice, but very little "feel" is their! in regards to knowing where the "clutch is",............street/ drag racers now what I'm talking about!......none the less, pedal effort is non exsistant with the hyd. set-up!..........it is sweet to cruise the hi-way with 410's in 5th @2200-2500 rpm @90-100mph!, and still tear it up on the street! with tall gears/ Tremec's 1/2/3 gear combo, Gear Vendors could offer me a free overdrive!, and I would refuse it!... I'd drop the coin on the Keisler!......which I don't enjoy do'in!.......but I remind myself the end result will justify the cost!....if your installing the 5 spd where a auto once resided, install a factory manual tranny tunnel, don't listen to Keislers "sell" on the peice of "sheet metal" they supply you!,......the more room the happier you'll be installing/ servicing your tranny!.........we've installed Keislers Tremecs in allmost every body style/ engine combo.....with NO major headaches!...........now if I could just get one of those Keisler 4 gear Automatics!!!!!!, I have the perfect project car for for it!.......Keisler are you listening???



Mike G/ DAYCLONA

[Ghoste]

Their automatic is out now isn't it?  A Chevy trans?

[BrianShaughnessy]

Their automatic is out now isn't it?  A Chevy trans?

Ehrenberg was waiting on the auto kit back in the fall for the Beeper...  wasn't too thrilled when we found out it was the 4L65 which has the same annoying gear spead as the 700R4.    He was hoping for a 4L80 gear spread that was similar to the 727's.    Last I asked it still hadn't shown up but he did receive an upgrade .64 5 speed for the Green Brick when we were there.   

Anyhoo,  thanks for the info Mike.   I hadn't heard of anybody else recommending the sachs B&B clutch but I take your word on it for the number of jobs you've done.   I haven't noticed those problems with the diaphragm but who knows.
Personally I like the hydraulic but I'm still leary of it due to the bleeding problems I had.    I really don't like old Z bar manual linkage too much at all.   I'd settle for a cable linkage if there was a way.

[cold85]

well i think that saving 1500.00 dollars is worth it to me to have to do some fabrication i will let you all know what was involved and how much i spent when i get done.

[Rolling_Thunder]

yeah - my boss and i have built many B/E body OD transmissions for customers.... swap gear sets with a regular 4-speed and bam... OD for the masses.... now Passon does it and chages a left nut - so i mean people have done it for years - why the all of a sudden big deal ?

Ok, did you read anything about it??? Try it. It is hardly a gear swap. Did yours have an 18 spline input shaft? I doubt it. That's one of the main differences. It doesn't take a whole lot to change a transmission (or gear sets) but it does actually take a lot of R&D to redesign the thing from the ground up. My problem is that I can blow up 8-10 regular transmissions for the cost of one of those things but it's still cheaper than a Keisler and it looks more "correct". If I didn't already have too many transmissions I'd consider it. At least do some research before knocking the product.

Troy

I was not knocking the product...  not meant to sound like i was,  but i mean i'm sure people have been doing the OD trans swaps for years...   but everywhere i look i now see the Passon thing....      i was just curious as to why it is such a big deal...      18 spline...   thats nice...       I've never actually seen a 23 spline break though....    my boss had a blown 440 in his truck and was running a 23 spline OD 4-speed and a 741 case 3.55....    never had any problems with either regaurding their stregnth.     

[Ghoste]

I've broken a couple.  Not in many years, but I have done it.

[MyMopar]

Just want to add my 2 cents about the trans.  I installed one of those aluminum case OD units in my 69 charger w/440.  Damn thing blew out on me during my honeymoon in Virginia Beach.  I was able to limp it home (Connecticut) but it wasn't pretty.  So they are weaker than a regular A-833 and if you like to drive the car more than "cruise" in it, you'll wish you ha a stronger trans.  My mani concern is worrying about blowing parts up, but you don't cheap out then you don't have to worry.
I was considering the Keisler route and the Passon route.  I know I want strength and an overdrive gear, they both offer me that, one for considerably less.  I guess the big thing will be how much $$$ you want to spend.  I think the 440's have enough torque to compensate for 1 less gear (meaning Keisler 5 speed vs. Passon 4) so I'm going the Passon route and using the extra money I would have spent on the motor/rear end.

[PocketThunder]

www.passonperformance.com

for those of you looking...

[694spdRT]

Just want to add my 2 cents about the trans.  I installed one of those aluminum case OD units in my 69 charger w/440.  Damn thing blew out on me during my honeymoon in Virginia Beach.  I was able to limp it home (Connecticut) but it wasn't pretty.  So they are weaker than a regular A-833 and if you like to drive the car more than "cruise" in it, you'll wish you ha a stronger trans.  My mani concern is worrying about blowing parts up, but you don't cheap out then you don't have to worry.
I was considering the Keisler route and the Passon route.  I know I want strength and an overdrive gear, they both offer me that, one for considerably less.  I guess the big thing will be how much $$$ you want to spend.  I think the 440's have enough torque to compensate for 1 less gear (meaning Keisler 5 speed vs. Passon 4) so I'm going the Passon route and using the extra money I would have spent on the motor/rear end.

Was the OD broke from the power of the 440 or wore out? Just wondering because the one I am building is going behind either a 318 or 360 Magnum...not sure which right now but, neither will have the torque of the 440.

[Ghoste]

IIRC, don't the factory OD trans have an issue with very fast wearing?  No bushings in the case or something goofy like that?

[Rolling_Thunder]

i know the OD trans use the larger front bearing and retainer because 4th gear is actually 3rd so it is said to wear out quicker....   wether it is true or not i am not positive....    i also hear that put alot of torque to the OD gear and it will knock teeth right off of it....     like i said - my boss ran a OD trans in his truck that had a blown 440 in it...  he never had a problem and I can honestly say he drove that thing hard....    so now hes having a 1100hp hemi built....   

[694spdRT]

IIRC, don't the factory OD trans have an issue with very fast wearing?  No bushings in the case or something goofy like that?

I think with the aluminum cased ones (I guess some of the early ones had a cast case) there is a wear issue with the counter shaft. The bearing retainer is larger than any other Mopar so it needs to be turned down for big blocks or a matching OD bellhousing should be used with a small block.

Here is a good article on them.

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techarticles/40618/

[G-Series]

I'll second Mike's post, and add: we've done the GV behind both the auto and 4speed.  Other than what Mike mentioned about the dropping out(they should have had the default be OD, not 1;1) consider that you will have to open your exhaust system(make the pipes bend around the GV unit) to accommodate it, as well as fab your own/modify your original cross member.  The amount of cutting required makes the original so weak, that you'll have to strengthen it by welding some steel inside it. The GV unit gives you a 22% drop in rpm.  IMO, no where near enough drop for the $$ spent.  Next you'll have to have your shaft shortened; actually, having a new one made is cheaper and better than trying to shorten the 'stepped' shafts that come in our cars.  When you add in your costs, the unit, shaft, and time to modify the exh. and the cross member, you're at the base cost for the Keisler system which gives you a .68/32% drop in rpm.
I've done them with 3.91, 4.10 and even 3.54's and the bigger the drop in rpm the better. 5th is for crusing, listening to the CD, and enjoying the view as you blast down the hiway.  We ran the 71 Bird on the Hotrod Power Tour cruising anywhere between 80 and 130mph, for 1200 miles in one week.  It was so much fun, we're doing it again this year.
You won't have to wait much longer for the Keisler auto OD, it's almost ready for public consumption. They want to make sure every aspect of it is thoroughly tested and retested so we get the best auto OD trans on the market. And yes, I do have a mole on the inside.

[dayclona]

I'll second Mike's post, and add: we've done the GV behind both the auto and 4speed.  Other than what Mike mentioned about the dropping out(they should have had the default be OD, not 1;1) consider that you will have to open your exhaust system(make the pipes bend around the GV unit) to accommodate it, as well as fab your own/modify your original cross member.  The amount of cutting required makes the original so weak, that you'll have to strengthen it by welding some steel inside it. The GV unit gives you a 22% drop in rpm.  IMO, no where near enough drop for the $$ spent.  Next you'll have to have your shaft shortened; actually, having a new one made is cheaper and better than trying to shorten the 'stepped' shafts that come in our cars.  When you add in your costs, the unit, shaft, and time to modify the exh. and the cross member, you're at the base cost for the Keisler system which gives you a .68/32% drop in rpm.
I've done them with 3.91, 4.10 and even 3.54's and the bigger the drop in rpm the better. 5th is for crusing, listening to the CD, and enjoying the view as you blast down the hiway.  We ran the 71 Bird on the Hotrod Power Tour cruising anywhere between 80 and 130mph, for 1200 miles in one week.  It was so much fun, we're doing it again this year.
You won't have to wait much longer for the Keisler auto OD, it's almost ready for public consumption. They want to make sure every aspect of it is thoroughly tested and retested so we get the best auto OD trans on the market. And yes, I do have a mole on the inside.

                                 I know that mole, he's "gray" and fuzzie! and slippery like warm "butta"




Mike G/ DAYCLONA

[chargervert]

It's nice to mole you!mole mole mole mole mole mole mole! Knock it off Austin!

[MyMopar]

694spdRT - It could have just been an abuse thing.  I did drive it hard and ended up getting some gear clash and stripped teeth.  A 318 or 360 will have no problem but it would be worth a rebuild if you pick one up from an unknown background.