Crisis Mode hot running 505 wedge, 4 core Champion Radiator or Oem Mopar 4 core?

[1Bad70Charger]

Guys,

I think he is close on the initial timing he says he is over 18* at idle, and I will have that confirmed tommorrow.

Car run likes a champ other than its running TOO HOT!

I don't want to leave HP on the table and initially he set total timing at 34* and backed it off to 32* with the cooling issue.

Question: Per Ron and others it seems like this type of 505 ci engine (10:6 compression) wants 36* of total timing to make maximum power.  If I have him set the total timing at 36* this should not have a negative effect on my cooling issue, as long as the initial timing is set properly, right?

[firefighter3931]

Question: Per Ron and others it seems like this type of 505 ci engine (10:6 compression) wants 36* of total timing to make maximum power.  If I have him set the total timing at 36* this should not have a negative effect on my cooling issue, as long as the initial timing is set properly, right?

That is correct Jim 


Ron

[six-tee-nine]

If you start the engine when it's cold does it get hot really fast? If it warms up normally and starts to overheat after the regular warm up period I'd say thermostat. If it gets hot after just a couple of minutes i'd say water pump or air pocket.
I read about some members here having the same issue and they have put the front wheels on a ramp to find out that the pump was'nt moving the water enough after several big burps came out of the rad, all was fine.

Since you are'nt using an OEM pump are you sure the rotation is correct?
However if you're aying you're engine is overheating at idle without a thermostat in the system I keep with my first point : water pump. That is if of course the engine is'nt running lean or the ignition is completely retarded.

Make sure for 500% that your ign timing is where it should be, and its running rich enough. Then put your thermostat in a pan of boiling water and see if its opening all the way. Then make sure when the system is filled its air free

[1Bad70Charger]

How does one check for an air pocket and that the sytem is air free?

[firefighter3931]

How does one check for an air pocket and that the sytem is air free?

It's referred to as "burping" the cooling system. 

Get the front end up on a set of ramps and run the engine with the rad cap off. If there are any trapped air pockets they will move to the top of the rad and you will see a burp. When this happens your coolant level will drop and you know that any excessive air has been purged.


Ron

[1Bad70Charger]

Ok, big improvement and MAJOR step in the right direction, about 90% certain my problem is related to no shroud and not enough fan/cooling.

Although it only got up to 66 degrees today, removing the piece of shit Champion shroud (made in China  ), that is a maor design flaw that actually blocks air flow like putting cardboard behind the radiator around the 2 little fans, seems to have CURED my problem of overheating and runnning hot on the open road with no traffic.  She ran 180 all day when not stuck in traffic, saw 218 in traffic jam, but FOR THE FIRST TIME dropped several degrees and drove at 180 after hitting the open road with no taffic.

Was my tuner's idea to remove the crap alum shroud that goes behind the radiator around the two fans, and removing them has made a 1000% improvement, and for the first time she maintaned 180 degrees and even dropped down to 175* once I hit the open road.  I also stopped by an old school shop that specializes only in heating and cooling cars, and both the owner and his son (who is a Mopar fanatic and owns 5 SWEET Mopar project cars), concurred the the Champion Shroud was a piece of GARBAGE and was blocking major air flow and was the reason why the temps would not come down when on the open road until today.

I have a new Mopar oem shroud that we are going to fabricate and going to change to mechanical fan in back, and use the two smaller fans as push fans and I should be good to go.

Stay tuned, was GREAT to finally jump on the car a littel bit today as she remained cooled until I got caught in traffic, and the car is a FREAKING ANIMIAL!  

Stay tuned and thanks for EVERYBODY'S support here!.  

[firefighter3931]

Great news Jim....Glad you guys made some progress 



Ron

[elacruze]

Hey, just finished the Power Tour with my 10.6:1 505...left home with 20 miles on it, just finished about 1700. I have a 180* thermostat.

First thing I noticed is that the engine is very sensitive to idle timing. I have about 15* at idle, any less than 12* and it heats up noticeably. If my distributor was curved correctly, it would probably like 18* more and run cooler.

Secondly, it ran dang hot for 6-700 miles. Nevermind that it was 100* in Georgia and Alabama... Still, after Nashville I could idle all day long in 90* with the A/C running and not get over 215*. Before that I couldn't run the A/C, in fact on the first and second days I couldn't let it idle more than 4-5 minutes without getting scary hot (which for me is straight up on the gauge, interpolating computer coolant temp that means 230-250*)

As Ron says, give it enough idle timing to keep the heat out of the exhaust ports, and give it time to settle in. Don't be afraid to let it heat up some-Despite the fears of many you can't hurt anything up to 250* if your hoses, radiator, etc. are all in good shape.

[1Bad70Charger]

Thanks Ron & Elacruze, yeah she has over 20 degree initial timing now at idle and 36* total, all in by 2700, and the car is very responsive and runs GREAT!!  Sounds bad azz with the big solid flat tappet cam I am running 264/270, 108 lsa, .579 lift, at .050.    WIth these cubes this big cam is VERY streetable!

It is good that the first few days when she was running WAY TO HOT in 100 degree outside temps, that even when I shut her down at 240* degree, that she did not spit out any coolant from the overflow radiator tube, and as Cooter says as long as she not spitting out fluid she is happy!  

I don't expect to see those temps again and if caught in traffic in bad heat, until I get the fans and shroud properly set up, I will shut her down around 230 to let things cool done as my idential engine to your cube wise (505) and compression (around 10:7), has less than 100 miles on it and I want to play things safe.

Was a GREAT day having this thing finally run cool on the open roads and got my poles fabricated to lift off my fiberglass 6 pack hood, and really show off this bad boy 69 Road Runner, at the many car shows I attend on an yearly basis.  This is my FAVORITE muscle car of them all, down to the color and black steel wheels and looks idential to the car in the picture below except I don't have the red line tires (which gives it an even meaner look).

http://www.russoandsteele.com/collector_car/1969_plymouth_roadrunner__a12__/42-6154.html#

[1Bad70Charger]

Thanks Ron & Elacruze, yeah she has over 20 degrees initial timing now at idle and 36* total, all in by 2700, and the car is very responsive and runs GREAT!!  Sounds bad azz with the big solid flat tappet cam I am running 264/270, 108 lsa, .579 lift, at .050.              With these cubes this big cam is VERY streetable, as its hard to overcam a 505 ci Wedge Engine!

It is good that the first few days when she was running WAY TO HOT in 100 degree outside temps, that even when I shut her down at 240* degree, that she did not spit out any coolant from the overflow radiator tube, and as Cooter says as long as she not spitting out fluid she is happy!  

I don't expect to see those temps again and if caught in traffic in bad heat, until I get the fans and shroud properly set up, I will shut her down around 230 to let things cool done as my idential engine to your cube wise (505) and compression (around 10:7), has less than 100 miles on it and I want to play things safe.

Was a GREAT day having this thing finally run cool on the open roads and got my poles fabricated to lift off my fiberglass 6 pack hood, and really show off this bad boy 69 Road Runner, at the many car shows I attend on an yearly basis.  This is my FAVORITE muscle car of them all, down to the color and black steel wheels and looks idential to the car in the picture below except I don't have the red line tires (which gives it an even meaner look).

http://www.russoandsteele.com/collector_car/1969_plymouth_roadrunner__a12__/42-6154.html#

[firefighter3931]

Jim, how do the plugs look 

Still burning rich 



Ron

[HPP]

I beleive I said in my initial post back on the first page, up towards the top of the thread, that I'm not a big fan of electric cooling fans for two reasons; they don't pull enough air and they have inefficient shroud designs.

This does point out the problem of having too many poeple throw too many ideas out there all at once. Its hard to methodically tackle a problem when everyone has an opinion of what will fix it.

[firefighter3931]

I beleive I said in my initial post back on the first page, up towards the top of the thread, that I'm not a big fan of electric cooling fans for two reasons; they don't pull enough air and they have inefficient shroud designs.

This does point out the problem of having too many poeple throw too many ideas out there all at once. Its hard to methodically tackle a problem when everyone has an opinion of what will fix it.

I have a single 16in 3000cfm electric fan installed as a pusher and it works fine cooling a 700hp 572ci stroker. The rad is an Afco 26in crossflow dual pass with 1in tubes. I also run a stand alone trans cooler...

I`m thinking along the same lines as HPP....the shroud design is most likely an issue.


Ron

[1Bad70Charger]

Ron,

Your obvioulsy using a mechanical fan also then along with a Mopar stock style shroud?

[firefighter3931]

Ron,

Your obvioulsy using a mechanical fan also then along with a Mopar stock style shroud?

Nope, no mechanical fan & no shroud.....just the electric pusher fan  

Some engine bay pics in this thread : http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,77455.0.html



Ron

[1Bad70Charger]

Ron,

Your obvioulsy using a mechanical fan also then along with a Mopar stock style shroud?

Nope, no mechanical fan & no shroud.....just the electric pusher fan  

Some engine bay pics in this thread : http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,77455.0.html



Ron

WOW, and in hot weather this does the job on the street?  Amazing, if you stay cool in traffic jams!