Doesn't seem to be charging properly

[MaximRecoil]

This is a 1969 318 automatic. I converted to a newer style alternator and electronic voltage regulator (see this thread). When I finished with the conversion, with the engine running it was showing 13.8 volts at the battery terminals, which means it was charging fine. Today however, it didn't seem to be charging properly. Sometimes it would show about 12.5 volts at the battery while running, and other times it would get up to about 12.9 volts. To get up to 12.9 volts, it has to be charging somewhat, perhaps intermittently, but it doesn't seem right.

I'm showing good continuity between the electronic regulator's outer metal case and various ground points on the car (e.g., engine block, firewall, negative battery terminal), so that's not the problem.

The car's alternator gauge seems to be showing intermittent activity. While idling, sometimes the needle stays dead center, and other times (usually when I rev the engine, but not always), the needle advances to the right some.

I followed this wiring scheme:



From this site.

One thing I wondered about when rewiring it: on the stock mechanical regulator setup, there were two wires that went into the quick-disconnect terminal that pushed onto the driver side of the voltage regulator (ignition terminal):



Now, according to the instructions and the diagram, you remove the wires that connect to the old mechanical regulator and splice them together, and also splice in the center wire of the new plug. The instructions only mention two wires (ignition and field, for a total of 3 wires being spliced together when you add in the center wire of the new plug), but I have 3 wires there, 2 going into the ignition side and one into the field side. So I ended up splicing a total of 4 wires together (the 3 that went to the old regulator plus the center wire of the new plug). Was that the right thing to do?

I've heard that the car's alternator gauge is a critical part of the charging circuit, so if something is screwy with that, it won't charge properly. I was thinking about adding a jumper wire across the two terminals of the gauge to eliminate that potential problem (any thoughts on this?). Are there any other parts of the charging circuit I should test?

[nascarxx29]

The 2 blue wires that formally went to the old black box regulator get spliced into this type newer plug
http://www.bouchillonperformance.com/BPE5312.asp

[MaximRecoil]

The 2 blue wires that formally went to the old black box regulator get spliced into this type newer plug
http://www.bouchillonperformance.com/BPE5312.asp

I don't know what color the wires are, but I had 3 wires that went to the old black box regulator; 2 of them factory-crimped into a single quick-disconnect terminal that plugged on the ignition side of the old regulator, and one with a factory-crimped spade terminal that went to a screw terminal on the field side of the old regulator.

I spliced all 3 of them and the center wire of the new plug (the blue wire in the picture you linked to) together. I also ran a new wire from the outer wire in the new plug (green wire in the picture you linked to) to the negative field terminal on the alternator.

[nascarxx29]

The old black box regulator had a push on double blue and a screw on single green wire .Follow the diagram your changing the 70 and up voltage regulator type plug using same color wires
http://www.mymopar.com/downloads/Dual_Field_Alternator_Wiring.jpg

http://www.mymopar.com/downloads/1970/70ChargerA.JPG

[MaximRecoil]

The old black box regulator had a push on double blue and a screw on single green wire .

Yes, and I spliced all 3 of those plus the blue center wire in the new plug together (for a total of 4 wires spliced together). I need to know if that was correct or not, because all the instructions and diagrams I've seen only mention 2 wires going to the old regulator, when there are in fact 3 wires going to it.

Follow the diagram your changing the 70 and up voltage regulator type plug using same color wires
http://www.mymopar.com/downloads/Dual_Field_Alternator_Wiring.jpg

http://www.mymopar.com/downloads/1970/70ChargerA.JPG

I followed the diagram that I posted above:



But there was that extra wire that the diagram doesn't mention. Was I supposed to splice them both in with the green (field) wire and the blue center wire of the plug, or only splice one of the two in with them and leave the other one just hanging?

[b5blue]

Is you ignition stock points or modified? 

[Plum Crazy 68]

Be sure to clean all your grounds and terminals, and make sure the grounding strap is there. 

[nascarxx29]

As said the alternator and voltage regulator require good grounds to work correctly.If you search this term in the search box[not charging] you find many that had that problem and how its was resolved

[MaximRecoil]

Is you ignition stock points or modified? 

Stock points.

As said the alternator and voltage regulator require good grounds to work correctly.If you search this term in the search box[not charging] you find many that had that problem and how its was resolved

The grounds are good.

I still need to know if I have it wired correctly.

Yes or no: All 4 wires should be spliced together (2 from the ignition side of the old regulator, 1 from the field side of the old regulator, 1 from the center terminal on the new plug); like so:

[b5blue]

  Though I'm not certain, it looks like you may have the "start" (Full 12 volts) and "run" (12 volts run through resistor) of your ignition wiring tied together? That would burn up your coil sooner or later. (I have no idea what effect it would have on charging.)  I always sand rusty sheet metal to bare shiny steel and coat it with dielectric grease on any contact ground point. (I have a 70 with a ECU type ignition harness so I'm not much good on the retrograde your doing.)

[MaximRecoil]

 Though I'm not certain, it looks like you may have the "start" (Full 12 volts) and "run" (12 volts run through resistor) of your ignition wiring tied together? That would burn up your coil sooner or later. (I have no idea what effect it would have on charging.)  

On the original electromechanical regulator, there were two terminals: field and ignition. The field terminal (which was specifically a screw terminal) had one wire going to it. The ignition terminal (which was specifically a quick disconnect terminal) had 2 wires going to it.

The diagram that I've posted a couple of times says to splice the field and ignition wires from the old regulator together, along with the center wire from the new regulator plug. However, neither the diagram nor the instructions that accompany it make any mention of the fact that there are 2 wires, rather than just 1 wire, that go to the ignition terminal on the old regulator. I spliced all 3 of the old regulator wires together along with the center wire from the new regulator plug, and I really need to know if that is correct before checking anything else.  

I always sand rusty sheet metal to bare shiny steel and coat it with dielectric grease on any contact ground point. (I have a 70 with a ECU type ignition harness so I'm not much good on the retrograde your doing.)

I use a powered wire wheel and go to the bare metal. I don't bother with grease, though it doesn't hurt anything. Any grease will do; its only function here being to provide a moisture and air barrier. Dielectric grease is relevant if there are multiple circuits that the grease is covering simultaneously; a conductive grease could cause a short in such a case; while dielectric grease (being non-conductive) will not.

When ring terminals are clamped tightly against the sheet metal with a nut, little-to-no air can get between the ring terminal and the bare sheet metal, making grease (or other forms of sealants) not particularly necessary. For this same reason, you don't need to seal a proper crimp (such as crimping a ring terminal to a wire) with anything, because a proper crimp is tight enough to be air-tight.

[nascarxx29]

 Your 69 car already had the green field wire. your just changing the type of connector plug to 70- up at that point. Changing to 2 field so now your adding the new alt blue field wire to the double blue wires that went on old regulator  on this link bottom of the page they show the 2 systems side by side
http://www.allpar.com/history/mopar/electrical.html
20. Flat-pack style electronic regulator is cheap and reliable. Virtually a must! To use it, you need any alternator with two field terminals, and the connector itself which is an easy junkyard score, or can still be had new as of 1999. Simply splice the connector, wire-color for wire-color, to the existing (old) regulator pigtails. Then simply splice in one more blue wire which you then run over to the second alternator field terminal. (If you've been using a later 2-field-terminal  alternator with a pre-'70 regulator, the second terminal would have been grounded through a short jumper wire - remove the jumper, naturally.) That's all there is to it! And you waited 25 years?

20. Flat-pack style electronic regulator is cheap and reliable. Virtually a must! To use it, you need any alternator with two field terminals, and the connector itself which is an easy junkyard score, or can still be had new as of 1999. Simply splice the connector, wire-color for wire-color, to the existing (old) regulator pigtails. Then simply splice in one more blue wire which you then run over to the second alternator field terminal. (If you've been using a later 2-field-terminal  alternator with a pre-'70 regulator, the second terminal would have been grounded through a short jumper wire - remove the jumper, naturally.) That's all there is to it! And you waited 25 years?

21. Charging-system schematic illustrates the simple differences between the old and new-style regulator wiring. Okay, you're scared of electric stuff. But this is s-o-o-o simple, Vern.

[tan top]

 , provinding  you harness is original OEM & not been altered in some way , should be like this  for a duel field alternator with 70 & later voltage regulator !!     
 i know the alternator field wires no matter which one go on what ,

[MaximRecoil]

Your 69 car already had the green field wire. your just changing the type of connector plug to 70- up at that point. Changing to 2 field so now your adding the new alt blue field wire to the double blue wires that went on old regulator  on this link bottom of the page they show the 2 systems side by side
http://www.allpar.com/history/mopar/electrical.html
20. Flat-pack style electronic regulator is cheap and reliable. Virtually a must! To use it, you need any alternator with two field terminals, and the connector itself which is an easy junkyard score, or can still be had new as of 1999. Simply splice the connector, wire-color for wire-color, to the existing (old) regulator pigtails. Then simply splice in one more blue wire which you then run over to the second alternator field terminal. (If you've been using a later 2-field-terminal  alternator with a pre-'70 regulator, the second terminal would have been grounded through a short jumper wire - remove the jumper, naturally.) That's all there is to it! And you waited 25 years?

20. Flat-pack style electronic regulator is cheap and reliable. Virtually a must! To use it, you need any alternator with two field terminals, and the connector itself which is an easy junkyard score, or can still be had new as of 1999. Simply splice the connector, wire-color for wire-color, to the existing (old) regulator pigtails. Then simply splice in one more blue wire which you then run over to the second alternator field terminal. (If you've been using a later 2-field-terminal  alternator with a pre-'70 regulator, the second terminal would have been grounded through a short jumper wire - remove the jumper, naturally.) That's all there is to it! And you waited 25 years?

21. Charging-system schematic illustrates the simple differences between the old and new-style regulator wiring. Okay, you're scared of electric stuff. But this is s-o-o-o simple, Vern.

Those instructions from E-berg don't say anything about the extra wire in the original harness either. As I've mentioned about 4 or 5 times before, there were 2 wires going to the ignition terminal of the old regulator (see the picture I posted earlier with the big yellow circle around the two wires that were factory-crimped into a quick-disconnect terminal that plugged onto the old regulator).

Also, he says, "Simply splice the connector, wire-color for wire-color, to the existing (old) regulator pigtails." That doesn't make sense, given that the new plug has a blue and a green wire (2 wires total) and the "existing (old) regulator pigtails" have a green wire, a black wire, and a black wire with a white stripe (3 wires total). So not only is a "wire-color for wire-color" splice not possible, but there is a wire count mismatch as well (2 wires on the new plug vs. 3 wires that originally plugged into the old regulator).

Also, his instructions don't seem to match up with his diagram, nor does he specify which of the two alternator field terminals "second alternator field terminal" refers to.

[tan top]

the two 2 wires are on all   !! well at least 68 & 69 cars  !!   if you un wrap the factory harness you will find one of them blue wires goes to the ballast resistor , just copy the altered picture i have posted

[MaximRecoil]

the two 2 wires are on all   !! well at least 68 & 69 cars  !!   if you un wrap the factory harness you will find one of them blue wires goes to the ballast resistor , just copy the altered picture i have posted

Your altered picture looks like it leaves one of the two ignition wires from the old regulator just hanging; not connected to anything (unless you mean that they should both be spliced into the blue wire from the new plug). Your altered picture also seems to indicate that the diagram that I originally followed ...



... is incorrect. Is that the case?

[nascarxx29]

As said above theres gonna be a double blue wires previously used on the old type regulator that used a pushed on connector.
The newly to be added field wire connects there to alternator field making 3 blue wires total
The green field wire is already there in the harness from alt to regulator your just changing to a different connector a dual terminal push on type connector for the flat type regulator .Previous regulator green field wire used a screw on connection terminal .

You should only have used the wires that went to the old regulator and addded the new blue to the old double blue wire connection
.The ballast resistor to the left on passenger side of firewall also has a single blue and brown and blue double wire.You dont mess with those wires


Hope this helps

[tan top]

the two 2 wires are on all   !! well at least 68 & 69 cars  !!   if you un wrap the factory harness you will find one of them blue wires goes to the ballast resistor , just copy the altered picture i have posted

Your altered picture looks like it leaves one of the two ignition wires from the old regulator just hanging; not connected to anything (unless you mean that they should both be spliced into the blue wire from the new plug). Your altered picture also seems to indicate that the diagram that I originally followed ...



... is incorrect. Is that the case?

sorry i'm confussed ?? hanging where  ??

green wire from new regulator goes to old green field wire harness
blue wire from new regulator goes to the two double  ignition wires on the original harness that were pluged into the original voltage regulator , then you need to splice another wire to all these blue ones & run it to the second field terminal on the alternator

As said above theres gonna be a double blue wires previously used on the old type regulator that used a pushed on connector.
The newly to be added field wire connects there to alternator field making 3 blue wires total
The green field wire is already there in the harness from alt to regulator your just changing to a different connector a dual terminal push on type connector for the flat type regulator .Previous regulator green field wire used a screw on connection terminal .

You should only have used the wires that went to the old regulator and addded the new blue to the old double blue wire connection
.The ballast resistor to the left on passenger side of firewall also has a single blue and brown and blue double wire.You dont mess with those wires


Hope this helps

[MaximRecoil]

As said above theres gonna be a double blue wires previously used on the old type regulator that used a pushed on connector.

They were not double blue wires on my car. One was black and the other was black with a white stripe:



Here is a more complete illustration of my current wiring scheme:

[MaximRecoil]

green wire from new regulator goes to old green field wire harness
blue wire from new regulator goes to the two double  ignition wires on the original harness that were pluged into the original voltage regulator , then you need to splice another wire to all these blue ones & run it to the second field terminal on the alternator

That sounds like how I already have it, assuming "second field terminal" means the terminal closest to the output stud on the alternator. See the more complete illustration that I just posted.

[tan top]

As said above theres gonna be a double blue wires previously used on the old type regulator that used a pushed on connector.

They were not double blue wires on my car. One was black and the other was black with a white stripe:



Here is a more complete illustration of my current wiring scheme:

they are two blue wires ! one dark & one with a white stripe , your prolly seeing black because with age & heat cycles the pigment has changed 

take a look at these two altered pictures ! , this is what you need to do

[MaximRecoil]

they are two blue wires ! one dark & one with a white stripe , your prolly seeing black because with age & heat cycles the pigment has changed  

take a look at these two altered pictures ! , this is what you need to do

In other words, you think I should switch the two field wires around at the alternator, because that is all your two pictures are actually indicating when compared to my illustration.

The alternator field terminal closest to the output stud is the positive field, and the other is the negative field, like so:



Your altered images indicate that the center (blue) wire of the new plug, along with the double blue ignition wires (which now look black), should run to the negative field terminal of the alternator; and the outer (green) wire of the new plug should run to the positive field of the alternator.

Both E-berg's diagram and the diagram I followed in the first place (which I've posted several times already in this thread) disagree with you. If you look at the diagram I posted in the OP (and several other posts), you will see that the center blue wire of the new plug ends up at the positive field terminal of the alternator (not the negative field terminal like in your altered images). If you look at E-berg's diagram ...



... you will see the same thing (i.e., the center blue wire of the new plug ends up at the field terminal on the alternator closest to the output stud, which is positive).

[tan top]

they are two blue wires ! one dark & one with a white stripe , your prolly seeing black because with age & heat cycles the pigment has changed  

take a look at these two altered pictures ! , this is what you need to do

In other words, you think I should switch the two field wires around at the alternator, because that is all your two pictures are actually indicating when compared to my illustration.

The alternator field terminal closest to the output stud is the positive field, and the other is the negative field, like so:



Your altered images indicate that the center (blue) wire of the new plug, along with the double blue ignition wires (which now look black), should run to the negative field terminal of the alternator; and the outer (green) wire of the new plug should run to the positive field of the alternator.

Both E-berg's diagram and the diagram I followed in the first place (which I've posted several times already in this thread) disagree with you. If you look at the diagram I posted in the OP (and several other posts), you will see that the center blue wire of the new plug ends up at the positive field terminal of the alternator (not the negative field terminal like in your altered images). If you look at E-berg's diagram ...



... you will see the same thing (i.e., the center blue wire of the new plug ends up at the field terminal on the alternator closest to the output stud, which is positive).

the blue or  green field conections  on the back of tha alternator !  does  not   matter which way round they go    , but i always put them like diagram !
but yes in answer to your question , you need to swap the conections around to the way i have altered your picture ! make sure all the splices are good , crimping is not really ideal , need to solder the splices really  

the way i have done the diagram is  the electricronic regulator  last picture you posted

[MaximRecoil]

the blue or  green field conections  on the back of tha alternator !  does  not   matter which way round they go    , but i always put them like diagram !

but yes in answer to your question , you need to swap the conections around to the way i have altered your picture !

Your altered pictures are not like the diagram; they are opposite of the diagram. Both diagrams I have posted show the center blue wire of the plug going to the positive field terminal on the alternator; which is how I have it wired on my car. Your altered pictures show the center blue wire of the plug going to the negative field terminal on the alternator.

make sure all the splices are good , crimping is not really ideal , need to solder the splices really  

Solder is far from ideal for wiring in a car environment. Solder does not flex particularly well, and given enough vibrations, it can crack/break. Crimping on the other hand, is ideal, which is why the factory that built the car crimped all the connections in the first place, rather than soldering them. Look at the bulkhead connectors sometime; there are nearly 50 factory crimps just there alone, to say nothing of the rest of the harnesses.

A proper crimp is stronger than the wire itself; meaning, you can not pull the crimped connector off without breaking the wire. A proper crimp is also airtight, which prevents corrosion. Plus, crimps are far more suitable for flexing than solder is. Solder is ideal for plumbing, attaching components to PCBs, and other applications not subject to much movement like wiring (especially in a vehicle) is.

In any event, I bypassed the alternator gauge today by attaching both wires to the same post on the back, and that got rid of the rapid fluctuations in the voltage readings, but it is only showing about 12.5 - 12.7 volts at the battery when the engine is idling. It is also only showing about 12.5 volts at the alternator. And just for the heck of it, I did try it with the 2 field wires at the alternator switched around, with no change in results.

Is this a system that only charges when it needs to, i.e., when there is a draw on the system (such as headlights)? I don't have my headlights wired up yet, so I haven't been able to test the voltage with the headlights on.

[nascarxx29]

The double blue connection wires usually is blue with white tracer and a dark blue.Hopefully you got it straightened out and working