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Tic-Toc-Tach is off with MP Orange Box EI

Started by BananaDan, May 23, 2011, 09:24:01 AM

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BananaDan

May 23, 2011, 09:24:01 AM
Hey guys, I have an MP Orange Box EI system on my 440 Charger.  I recently got my dash cluster back from Instrument Specialties and due to a miscommunication they didn't do the EI upgrade to my tic-toc-tach after all.  The tach is definitely showing incorrect RPM numbers and under a load (2500-3000+ RPMs) she jumps all over the place including into the redline area.  I spoke with Mike and he says that I shouldn't need the EI upgrade, he says that he has never seen a tic-toc-tach provide false RPM readings with an Orange Box setup, only with something like an MSD.  He suggested I try a tach adapter from MSD to see if it helps, or I can send my tach back to him and he'll do the EI upgrade to it but he doesn't think I should need it.  He had my tach test results from the three bench tests they put it through and he said it tested out fine all three times.  My questions:

Has anyone had issues with an MP Orange Box and a stock tic-toc-tach?  The Orange Box is an upgrade to my 70 done by a previous owner, 70's were points from the factory.

If I were to try a tach adapter, which one should I get?  Mike recommended the MSD 8910, but I read somewhere else that I may need an 8920?

Could I have a problem with my coil that is causing this issue?  I have one of the restoration/reproduction Mopar coils (02495531) from MopartsRacing.com  http://www.mopartsracing.com/parts/electronic.html.

Dan
*This post brought to you by Carl's Jr.®*



Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. The mediocre mind is incapable of understanding the man who refuses to bow blindly to conventional prejudices and chooses instead to express his opinions courageously and honestly.  ~A. Einstein

BigBlockSam

#1
May 23, 2011, 10:17:43 AM
 :popcrn:
I won't be wronged, I wont be Insulted and I wont be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to others, and I require the same from them.

  [IMG]http://i45.tinypic.com/347b5v5.jpg[/img

resq302

#2
May 23, 2011, 12:30:36 PM
I know at idle my tach is reading incorrectly and it was restored by Auto Instruments.com about 8 years or so ago.  Ive just given up hope on it and whenever I need to tune my car I have a digital timing light that has rpms on it also.
Brian
1969 Dodge Charger (factory 4 speed, H code 383 engine,  AACA Senior winner, 2008 Concours d'Elegance participant, 2009 Concours d'Elegance award winner)
1970 Challenger Convert. factory #'s matching red inter. w/ white body.  318 car built 9/28/69 (AACA Senior winner)
1969 Plymough GTX convertible - original sheet metal, #'s matching drivetrain, T3 Honey Bronze, 1 of 701 produced, 1 of 362 with 440 4 bbl - auto

BigBlockSam

#3
May 23, 2011, 01:08:59 PM
i have an msd adapter in my rod and it did the job . i have a msd distributor and 6al box in the rod. without the adapter the Tach was way off. i have dolphin gauges in that car .  :cheers:
I won't be wronged, I wont be Insulted and I wont be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to others, and I require the same from them.

  [IMG]http://i45.tinypic.com/347b5v5.jpg[/img

70charginglizard

#4
May 23, 2011, 01:31:45 PM
Quote from: BananaDan on May 23, 2011, 09:24:01 AM
and under a load (2500-3000+ RPMs) she jumps all over the place including into the redline area.  

Regarding this part of the issue. I had a similar problem like this and ran a seperate ground wire from the lower outbd screw that holds the tic toc tach in place and screwed that in real tight and grounded to the dash frame just below that real good and the jumping around problem on mine went away after that.

I'd give that a try on yours Dan and see if that helps any.

oh and bty....I also have the MP orange ignition box on mine and no upgrade to the cluster for me.
No problems since I added the additional grounding strap to the tach as I mension above to mine.  :2thumbs:
70charginglizard

BananaDan

#5
May 23, 2011, 02:51:02 PM
Interesting, so it could be a grounding issue?
*This post brought to you by Carl's Jr.®*



Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. The mediocre mind is incapable of understanding the man who refuses to bow blindly to conventional prejudices and chooses instead to express his opinions courageously and honestly.  ~A. Einstein

Just 6T9 CHGR

#6
May 23, 2011, 06:02:52 PM
That is possible.....I run the MP electronic ign as well (actually a hotter setup from FBO racing) and the tach reads OK

When I say OK it doesnt spike up to the redline ect....its NOT accurate at all....mostly for show..  I use my hidden shift light/tach for accuracy :Twocents:
Chris' '69 Charger R/T

doctor4766

#7
May 23, 2011, 06:22:34 PM
So what actually is the issue with EI boxes and tachs?
I too have the orange box but use an aftermarket tach.
It seems to run ok up til 3000rpm but doesn't seem to want to go any higher than that, even though I feel the car is revving more than 3000.
Gotta love a '69

70charginglizard

#8
May 23, 2011, 08:14:21 PM
Quote from: BananaDan on May 23, 2011, 02:51:02 PM
Interesting, so it could be a grounding issue?

Id put money on it if I were a betting man :yesnod:
70charginglizard

resq302

#9
May 23, 2011, 10:36:29 PM
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on May 23, 2011, 06:02:52 PM
That is possible.....I run the MP electronic ign as well (actually a hotter setup from FBO racing) and the tach reads OK

When I say OK it doesnt spike up to the redline ect....its NOT accurate at all....mostly for show..  I use my hidden shift light/tach for accuracy :Twocents:

But Chris, you have an automatic.  Why ever would you need a shift light?   :lol:
Brian
1969 Dodge Charger (factory 4 speed, H code 383 engine,  AACA Senior winner, 2008 Concours d'Elegance participant, 2009 Concours d'Elegance award winner)
1970 Challenger Convert. factory #'s matching red inter. w/ white body.  318 car built 9/28/69 (AACA Senior winner)
1969 Plymough GTX convertible - original sheet metal, #'s matching drivetrain, T3 Honey Bronze, 1 of 701 produced, 1 of 362 with 440 4 bbl - auto

Just 6T9 CHGR

#10
May 24, 2011, 09:11:07 PM
Quote from: resq302 on May 23, 2011, 10:36:29 PM

But Chris, you have an automatic.  Why ever would you need a shift light?   :lol:

You figure it out Brian.... :nana:

Chris' '69 Charger R/T

A383Wing

#11
May 24, 2011, 09:51:41 PM
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on May 24, 2011, 09:11:07 PM

You figure it out Brian.... :nana:



that is cool.....you have it made or did ya make it yerself??  :2thumbs:

Rolling_Thunder

#12
May 24, 2011, 10:13:20 PM
 I'd take a point off if I were judging that car   :rofl:             


Then again people would have a field day with my car      :2thumbs:


1968 Dodge Charger - 6.1L Hemi / 6-speed / 3.55 Sure Grip

2013 Dodge Challenger R/T - 5.7L Hemi / 6-speed / 3.73 Limited Slip

1964 Dodge Polara 500 - 440 / 4-speed / 3.91 Sure Grip

1973 Dodge Challenger Rallye - 340 / A-518 / 3.23 Sure Grip

70charginglizard

#13
May 24, 2011, 10:40:36 PM
Quote from: BananaDan on May 23, 2011, 02:51:02 PM
Interesting, so it could be a grounding issue?

Well Dan????
70charginglizard

BananaDan

#14
May 25, 2011, 05:45:05 AM
I don't have time to work on her until this weekend.  I'll keep you all posted.
*This post brought to you by Carl's Jr.®*



Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. The mediocre mind is incapable of understanding the man who refuses to bow blindly to conventional prejudices and chooses instead to express his opinions courageously and honestly.  ~A. Einstein

resq302

#15
May 25, 2011, 06:19:39 AM
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on May 24, 2011, 09:11:07 PM
Quote from: resq302 on May 23, 2011, 10:36:29 PM

But Chris, you have an automatic.  Why ever would you need a shift light?   :lol:

You figure it out Brian.... :nana:




Ahhhhhh...... looks like someone has a reverse valve body   :scratchchin:
Brian
1969 Dodge Charger (factory 4 speed, H code 383 engine,  AACA Senior winner, 2008 Concours d'Elegance participant, 2009 Concours d'Elegance award winner)
1970 Challenger Convert. factory #'s matching red inter. w/ white body.  318 car built 9/28/69 (AACA Senior winner)
1969 Plymough GTX convertible - original sheet metal, #'s matching drivetrain, T3 Honey Bronze, 1 of 701 produced, 1 of 362 with 440 4 bbl - auto

Just 6T9 CHGR

#16
May 25, 2011, 10:14:56 PM
A full manual one at that.....for the past 13 years! ;)
Chris' '69 Charger R/T

440

#17
May 26, 2011, 06:13:50 AM
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on May 25, 2011, 10:14:56 PM
A full manual one at that.....for the past 13 years! ;)

I thought you were bit by the "originality bug" ?

resq302

#18
May 26, 2011, 06:17:37 AM
Quote from: 440 on May 26, 2011, 06:13:50 AM
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on May 25, 2011, 10:14:56 PM
A full manual one at that.....for the past 13 years! ;)

I thought you were bit by the "originality bug" ?

It is.  Its "original" to him!   :smilielol:
Brian
1969 Dodge Charger (factory 4 speed, H code 383 engine,  AACA Senior winner, 2008 Concours d'Elegance participant, 2009 Concours d'Elegance award winner)
1970 Challenger Convert. factory #'s matching red inter. w/ white body.  318 car built 9/28/69 (AACA Senior winner)
1969 Plymough GTX convertible - original sheet metal, #'s matching drivetrain, T3 Honey Bronze, 1 of 701 produced, 1 of 362 with 440 4 bbl - auto

elacruze

#19
May 26, 2011, 07:39:21 AM
Quote from: 70charginglizard on May 23, 2011, 08:14:21 PM
Quote from: BananaDan on May 23, 2011, 02:51:02 PM
Interesting, so it could be a grounding issue?

Id put money on it if I were a betting man :yesnod:

With electronics, it's *always* a grounding issue...
1968 505" EFI 4-speed
1968 D200 Camper Special, 318/2bbl/4spd/4.10
---
Torque converters are for construction equipment.

Back N Black

#20
May 26, 2011, 09:09:39 AM
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on May 23, 2011, 06:02:52 PM
That is possible.....I run the MP electronic ign as well (actually a hotter setup from FBO racing) and the tach reads OK

When I say OK it doesnt spike up to the redline ect....its NOT accurate at all....mostly for show..  I use my hidden shift light/tach for accuracy :Twocents:

Got a pic of you hidden tac? i need ideas. :2thumbs:

Just 6T9 CHGR

#21
May 26, 2011, 08:14:31 PM
Quote from: Back N Black on May 26, 2011, 09:09:39 AM
Got a pic of you hidden tac? i need ideas. :2thumbs:

Started a new thread not to hi-jack this one too badly ;)

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,81258.new.html#new
Chris' '69 Charger R/T

dodgedarren

#22
September 06, 2011, 06:00:24 PM

I just bout a NEW OEM Tic Toc Tach and is came with no wiring diagram. Does anyone have a photo or diagram of what goes where on the back of the tach???

Dans 68

#23
September 07, 2011, 01:13:20 AM
Quote from: dodgedarren on September 06, 2011, 06:00:24 PM

I just bout a NEW OEM Tic Toc Tach and is came with no wiring diagram. Does anyone have a photo or diagram of what goes where on the back of the tach???

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,71037.0.html

Dan
1973 SE 400 727  1 of 19,645                                        1968 383 4bbl 4spds  2 of 259

dodgedarren

#24
September 07, 2011, 06:41:12 PM


Mine has 5 terminals

Musicman

#26
May 30, 2012, 03:54:21 PM
My tach started wandering for no apparent reason on the way up to NH this weekend ... this was followed by engine trouble which led to complete engine failure... it shuddered, backfired and died... I swapped out the ECU with a spare Orange Box I had in the trunk and we were good to go again. No problems since...
Bad ground killed the other ECU?... maybe, it's entirely possible. I never removed the faulty ECU to check, I just plugged the Orange Box in and bolted it to the firewall at a new location (at the engine ground strap).
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