Galen Govier - What Gives?

[Shakey]

I was looking at another thread a minute ago and it seems that some folks have a gripe with Galen, his books and his services.  What gives?   

I'll start by stating that I know who he is and what he does and how he makes his living.  Why do so many people have a problem with him?  Has he done anything that directly affected you?  Sure I am interested in your opinion but I am more interested in facts.  Has he done anything to you?

I'll state that I have been aware of Galen and his services since the early '90's.  He has decoded my car, (by the previous owner), back in the mid '90's and the paperwork that came with the car has provided a good read on numerous occasions  .  Also, I know that with the information available on the www, many questions one has could be answered with some research.

Why do people gripe about him?

[TruckDriver]

I talked to him a few times when I had my Aspen R/T, and he was always nice and helpful. He is the one that told me only 628 '78 Aspens got the "Spectrum Interiour".

[69fuchs]

I know him, and he is a nice guy.  His business is understaffed, and unfortunately money talks, so he seems to cater to "he who has most bucks".  One man can't take care of the whole hobby, I think he does bite off more than he can chew, and people get mad.  I live 60 miles from him, his shop is a block away from his house.  He is not there very often, I would say 1/4 of the time.   There are endless stacks of paperwork in his shop.  If he can afford it, he should hire someone to help him.....like me !!!!!!

[bull]

I'm not pointing to anyone specific but I think there might be a bit of resentment/jealousy involved. You can't really blame a guy for taking a hobby and turning it into a successful business. He has created a lot of credibility for himself in the hobby and there's bound to be some backlash along the way. Maybe he's fallen victim to the WalMart syndrome.

[Ghoste]

Or maybe it's the way he rarely admits to a mistake (of which he is more prone than many think), or maybe it's the way certain cars do NOT exist unless he says they exist, or maybe it's the whole "guru" thing (which whether he started it or not he sure doesn't mind wearing the tag), or maybe it's just the way he tends to look down at people unless they either have information he needs or money he wants?

[dayclona]

maybe it's just the way he tends to look down at people unless they either have information he needs or money he wants?

         and,.................................  Bingo!.........................was his name "o"

[ChargerBill]

I'd be willing to BET, yes...I'll bet on this one, that he has made a few of the unscrupulous VERY unhappy that they cannot get away with swapping VINs or making exaggerated claims. He brings HONESTY and factual record keeping to a hobby where low-lifes and opportunists normally abound (see Ford, Chevy, Olds etc...) There is BIG money to be had by any crook who swaps a salvaged RT or HEMI VIN onto a 318 car, but they cannot make that crooked deal as easily (or at all) with a "guru" watching and recording what is going on in the hobby. IMO, THESE are the people crying in their beer that "it just isn't fair"...or "Galen is this or that"...and trying to discredit him. So consider the source before you believe anything a bunch of greasemonkeys & gearheads (or worse - BIG CHECK WRITERS) are spouting off about. Because as fellow greasemonkeys & gearheads we all KNOW that 50% of what is said in a garage or under the hood is pure BS and the other 50% is pure ego.

[THE COLONEL]

I know him, and he is a nice guy.  His business is understaffed, and unfortunately money talks, so he seems to cater to "he who has most bucks".  One man can't take care of the whole hobby, I think he does bite off more than he can chew, and people get mad.  I live 60 miles from him, his shop is a block away from his house.  He is not there very often, I would say 1/4 of the time.   There are endless stacks of paperwork in his shop.  If he can afford it, he should hire someone to help him.....like me !!!!!!

Same here.  I have met him many times and my father knows him pretty well, and he is really understaffed.  He has even said that it could take a year for him to decode someones car.  I agrree he does need to hire a few more people.

[nascarxx29]

When I would read something he did a story on .Like it was mentioned you wouldnt see a 70charger with AC and 4 speed.So I sent him my buildsheet .Same goes for a 70 Super bee with PW and AC.I sent that build sheet .And one for a non RT 69 charger that had W23 recall wheels.I would sent that info in as well .He apprecaited it as well.And would answer my questions.I emailed or asked in person. I have had no bad experiences with him.Other then he one busy guy.So you might have to wait

[Ghoste]

Well, Bill, I certainly am not unscrupulous.  Nor am I swapping tags or making a clone ar swindling people or even involved in any project that even remotely hints at any of those things.  Matter of fact I have spoken out many times against those activities.  So let me assure you, I'm not a greasemonkey crying in my beer.
I will stand on record as agreeing with you on the fact that he has provided a tremendous service to the hobby in helping to prevent fraud.  I will not however. look up to him as guru because that, he is not.


Just musing here, but could a devils advocate argue that he has fueled the fraud market by pointing out the rarity of certain cars and justifying the expense of "Galen Certified" vehicles?

[6pkrunner]

This is a common topic thread that comes up on all the boards with really amazing regularity. Weeding out the sour grapes and such from all of them, the basic complaint stems from the time elapse from the owner contacting him and the actual supplying of his services. A thread on another board held the record with something like an 18 month or so with no contact back. A thread like this got his attention and the issue was resolved.
He took on the task of learnnig and compiling knowledge on these cars when no one cared for them. So a hats off for that! But a God or super Mopar Man that is heads and shoulders above others - not! Just a guy that provides a service. 90% of what he does is now well documented on many sites. You want a fender tag decoded or buildsheet decoded - do it yourself.
But his history on the high end cars has made him like a stamp of approval for large coin changing hands. no one wants a 3 million dollar loss and he is putting himself in harm's way when he authorizes a car and it goes bust.

[chargervert]

I met him,he seems like a decent guy,but his word is not law,and he isn't always right! I think he has a problem,with rule #1 in the Mopar hobby,and thats never,say never. He was fooled by that pilot Cuda convertible,and although the Mopar Collectors Guide tried to save face on that one,he was caught with his pants down!The problem,with the Guru thing,is everyone thinks if he says thats the way it is,then thats it.He has had to eat some words over the years,like alpha bit soup!I have also seen a car from a top restoration shop,they are also reguarded as the guru of restoration shops,that did a Challenger,that had a Plymouth Six barrel decal on the air cleaner,and was supposed to be an early 71 car,so it had a 70 go wing on it,but it also had the late 71 bumper on the front,with the bumper jack slots. I figure Chrysler built the back of the car in early 71,and the front of the car in late 71! I appreciate the information,and the service that the gurus do,don't take what I'm saying as me bashing them,I'm just making a point,and if that dosen't do it,then refer back to rule # 1

[ChargerBill]

Well, Bill, I certainly am not unscrupulous.  Nor am I swapping tags or making a clone ar swindling people or even involved in any project that even remotely hints at any of those things.  Matter of fact I have spoken out many times against those activities.  So let me assure you, I'm not a greasemonkey crying in my beer.
I will stand on record as agreeing with you on the fact that he has provided a tremendous service to the hobby in helping to prevent fraud.  I will not however. look up to him as guru because that, he is not.


Just musing here, but could a devils advocate argue that he has fueled the fraud market by pointing out the rarity of certain cars and justifying the expense of "Galen Certified" vehicles?

I didn't single you out....in fact I wasn't accusing anyone in particular. You completely misunderstood... I was saying that I'm sure some of the trickle down of grumblings comes from that group of individulas. As far as the time lapse problem, I cannot comment on that becasue I have no personal experince with him in that area at all. However, I have heard he is slow and have heard complaints about that as well.

[Ghoste]

My bad Bill.

[694spdRT]

He took on the task of learnnig and compiling knowledge on these cars when no one cared for them. So a hats off for that! But a God or super Mopar Man that is heads and shoulders above others - not! Just a guy that provides a service. 90% of what he does is now well documented on many sites. You want a fender tag decoded or buildsheet decoded - do it yourself.
But his history on the high end cars has made him like a stamp of approval for large coin changing hands. no one wants a 3 million dollar loss and he is putting himself in harm's way when he authorizes a car and it goes bust.

I think 6pkrunner hit the nail on the head. Galen is the recognized authority until someone else comes forward to sign their name and financial neck on the dotted line for these high dollar car transactions. There are plenty of knowledgeable Mopar people out there that probably know just as much as Galen....they just did not take the step to make a business out of it years ago and build a following.  When I watched Barrett-Jackson last year and Galen had a spot on the show it was obvious to me that he had made it. Exposure is more valuable than anything and if he is good enough for Barrett-Jackson's standards, that is all many non-experts will need to hear.

Is his service needed by most of us here? Not really, unless you have a special car. That is especially true now that there are sites available on the Net that will decode nearly everything you need. I do wonder how much of this info was, at least in part, originally organized by Galen.  I remember 15 or 20 years ago when information was not a mouse click away and I used his books regularly when buying or looking at cars.

I cannot really answer on his PR skills or work backlog. I have met and talked with Galen on several occasions and it really seems to depend on how busy he is. We live close to Galen and he has came over and talked to me or my dad about our cars at local shows for quite a while. Then there are other days that he waves and walks by. It doesn't really bother me as there are times when I am "working" that I don't have time for long converstations either. He may very well be backlogged on work as I have never used his services. It is his choice as a business man to hire more help or not.  Although, adding more employees can sometimes create more problems.

I will end by saying I don't think he has hurt the hobby. It is just that our "hobby" has now become big business for many. Galen was fortunate enough to have been one of the few people collecting information and providing services that have turned out to be very valuable to some people.    

[Dodge Don]

I've spoken with him on a couple of occasions and I have to be honest, he left me cold. Always seemed distracted or not really engaged....perhaps he was having some bad days, or I surmised since I wasn't talking about flying to France to document an export Hemi Cuda Convertible (or some such ultra-rarity) that I was kind of boring him. Whatever....

I don't have a beef with him earning a living, but he does so at everyone's expense. Everyone sends him tags and sheets to decode which he charges for and THAT info creates the database that ALLOWS him to be a "guru" and charge even more $$ for his services. I personally believe that this information should be available to all for the good of the hobby. Yes, I know...call me a socialist or an altruist but that is my belief. And that is exactly why we went to so much effort to create broadcast sheet decoders for 70 Chargers so that the info people share in good faith with the 70 Registry get's consolidated and made available for the good of the many.

So let's just say our philosophies on life are different.

[69fuchs]

The "guru" thing comes from his professional reputation.  He has a great wealth of knowledge, and he is also human, so mistakes happen.  He has been prooven wrong on some occasions, and he is not afraid to admit when he is wrong.

 His "opinions" can upset people, but really, they are nothing more than opinions.  He made a comment to me about not having the original wheels on my car,(I bought the wheels from him), and I just told him that it was my car, and I like it with mags.  He didn't make any derogatory comments about it, he just stated his opinion.

His facts are pretty accurate, and I would say he is still learning.

And he was the first to compile all of the info that we take for granted now.  Yes, you can find information from other sources, but it is usually pirated from his books/information.  There are little "errors" in those books that are transferred to the pirates...this has been common knowledge for years.  He doesn't know everything, and there may be some others out there that know more.  But he was first to be recognized, I first met him in '84 at a car show, and he decoded a fender tag without a book.  I thought he was nuts.  Why would anyone do that?  He had to do a lot of research to get all the info he has.  Anyone can compile the info now. The groundwork has been done...by him.

[Ghoste]

There have been a few times he was wrong that he doesn't too readily admit.  I won't even go into the thing about taking credit for other peoples work.

[694spdRT]

Dodge Don I was hoping you would respond to this as you guys have done a tremendous job on your website and should be applauded.

I do agree that some of the services he provides are not worth spending the money on. I am sure you agree the day I need to pay someone to come out and look at the fender tag or buildsheet on my run of the mill '69 and tell me what the codes mean I should have my head examined.  On the other hand if people still choose to pay him money in this "Information Age" for stuff that is free elsewhere I don't have alot of sympathy. IMO, it is the uneducated car buyer out there looking for a #'s car or the high dollar purchaser wanting a guarantee something is legit that seems more reasonable to me. I think this is the main thing that sets Galen apart from the rest.

Some of the other stuff like the fender tag and window sticker stuff doesn't really bother me at all either, although you can get it cheaper elsewhere if you shop around. It is kinda like Year One, you can go with the big name, or find the smaller guy that sells the same stuff.

[hemihead]

When you publish in a  magazine that you want info about cars from people then turn around and charge to give info to othersAs far as him  is just wrong in my book.My time is just as valuable is his so don't tell me the time excuse thing.He doesn't know everything about Mopars, there are some around that know as much or more... even on this board.The so called Chrysler registry he has is only for serving himself because he only wants free info on the high dollar Mopars left out there.As far as him doing this' when no one else cared about these cars' get a grip.
BTW- From now on I will answer your Mopar questions you have but you must send me $20.00 for each question and sorry no refunds if I'm wrong but I will never be wrong even if I'm wrong.     Should I sign up for welfare now?

[69fuchs]

To be honest, I don't need his advice very often.  And thanks to the message boards, I have learned more reading posts than I have from galen or his books. 

But it sure is funny how nearly everone in this hobby says things like "decoded by galen" when talking about their cars.  I can decode my own cars, but no one would care if 69fuchs decoded their cars. It is a fact of life that he is on the top.  Like him or not, he has done good for the hobby.

  As far as charging for his info vs. collecting info for free-I agree with you. It is not ok.  But how would you like to have someone calling you 24/7?  He is only one man, and it is simple economics. If people are willing to pay, charge them!!!   I would charge people just like he does, but I would offer some free services for the info that I had taken from people (like taking pictures of fender tags).  I am not a fan of that....he doesn't even ask.

[greenpigs]

I never have dealt with him, but he offers a service that people want..if they didn't he would be working out of his basement.

Not a real good comparison but if our beloved Chryco Psycho offered his knowledge I would line up..but I don't have the $$ to ship him to Ohio..in a way he would like at least. So the person with the $$ gets his service since they can get him to their place.

[bull]

I said this in the last Galen thread. The main thing that he offers is a sense of uniformity in the hobby when it comes to authenticity for buyers and sellers of Mopars. There are few other guys (if any) out there who can "endorse" a car in California and have it mean something to a buyer in NY. He has managed to create a name for himself in that sense. There are other guys who are well known in the hobby but not as well known as Galen, especially when it comes to newbies.

[DodgeChargerNeeded]

I've heard about his prices, unless your rich don't bother calling him.

[Silver R/T]

I'd be willing to BET, yes...I'll bet on this one, that he has made a few of the unscrupulous VERY unhappy that they cannot get away with swapping VINs or making exaggerated claims. He brings HONESTY and factual record keeping to a hobby where low-lifes and opportunists normally abound (see Ford, Chevy, Olds etc...) There is BIG money to be had by any crook who swaps a salvaged RT or HEMI VIN onto a 318 car, but they cannot make that crooked deal as easily (or at all) with a "guru" watching and recording what is going on in the hobby. IMO, THESE are the people crying in their beer that "it just isn't fair"...or "Galen is this or that"...and trying to discredit him. So consider the source before you believe anything a bunch of greasemonkeys & gearheads (or worse - BIG CHECK WRITERS) are spouting off about. Because as fellow greasemonkeys & gearheads we all KNOW that 50% of what is said in a garage or under the hood is pure BS and the other 50% is pure ego.

you got it