Mercedes vs Chrysler sales

[ChargerBill]

I've been giving this a lot of thought, mainly because the designs and sound bytes coming out of DCX corporate and being used in press releases just don't make a bunch of sense. Think about this a little; Here is a company that sells "high end" cars - Mercedes and yet also must sell to the average Joe. They are used to styling being a Mercedes selling point (though I have never cared for their styling cues) and they sell to buyers who want something that "appears" to be more than it is...and in some cases may actually be as good of a car as it looks to be. So, why then would they cut into potential Mercedes sales by creating a very cool looking and exciting Dodge or Chrysler? OK, you and I know that a guy who is looking for a Challenger is likely NOT a potential Mercedes customer, but the guy looking for an Imperial might be. So, they make the Imperial look like a clumsy automobile version of Snuffleupagus and viola, they will still get the buyers willing to spend $15K to $25K more to buy the Mercedes version in the same class. However, if they made the imperial look like the Chronos concept car (VERY cool), they could potentially lose all those who are willing to spend more on the German car because the Chronos is actually better looking and appears to be a high end car. I believe that the higher-ups at DCX don't want to produce ANY car under the Chrysler/Dodge nameplate that could remotely cut into potential Mercedes sales. If you look at the Charger design and the Imperial design from that perspective, it actually makes sense...from THEIR perspective that is. (obviously not from where I'm sitting) This may be an instance where DCX is intentionally sabatoging cool design possibilities on the Chrysler/Dodge nameplate to save Mercedes some revenue and embarassment. I liken it to the "Give them cake" attitude.....

[TheGhost]

You missed one thing.  The 300.  That car has severely cut into the sales of all it's competitors.  Including Mercedes.

[Silver R/T]

agree with your points ChargerBill

[ChargerBill]

Wow, I expected more response...guess maybe I was really off base on this one...

[Ghoste]

Very well could be.  At least inasmuch as the American market goes.  Merecedes is well regarded internationally but I don't know about Chrysler?

[6pkrunner]

The way I feel is that Mercedes is using Chrysler as the entry level club. "After you have had the lower end stuff for a while, why not step up to the big guys and into a real Mercedes?"
While else would you build every car you make with the same grill? You really don't care for the marque. Product identification is one thing but for every car to be the same front on?
Just my $0.02.

[Ghoste]

That's been the way of the auto business for decades though.  The only difference is that after the buyout, "our" brand got knocked down a notch.

[Brock Samson]

  Bil the Chronos and the '99 Charger (the good lookin one) were baised on the LH platform, the new whatever they are suposedto bes, are baised on old Merc. E Class stuff, im not a car desginer but i beleve the steering bits and rerlated parts are what dictated ("Dictated"?)
the blunt checker cab looks. that DCX got saddeled with...
that's the short story...

[Nacho-RT74]

Very well could be. At least inasmuch as the American market goes. Merecedes is well regarded internationally but I don't know about Chrysler?

Yes Mercedes is the best regarded internationally.

Chrysler... Since I live outside USA I think I an give an opinion... Lexus, Audi, BMW are more regarded than Chrysler. CADILLAC is also more regarded.

Of course I'm Not including brands like Rolls Royce, Aston Martin, Maseratti, Ferrari and Lamborghinis.


Well in fact I think any deluxe European ( and in some cases not extremelly deluxe ones also, like Alfa Romeo ) is more regarded than Chrysler at least here.

[Orange_Crush]

That's been the way of the auto business for decades though.  The only difference is that after the buyout, "our" brand got knocked down a notch.

Well...depends on how you look at it.

After the takeover, DCX tried desperately to take Chrysler upmarket, but they went about in a very bad way.  The Pacifica was the first DCX/Chrysler vehicle to go to market.  They decided to bring out the fully-optioned high-dollar versions first (about 35-38 grand).  They failed miserably and, while the Pacifica sell pretty well now, sales did not get moving until they brought out the base models.

Now, with the 300s, Chrysler routinely sells cars that cost upwards of 40 grand.  Seems to me that they've gone upmarket pretty well.

If they build the imperial, they're talking about prices in the 50-60 thousand dollar range.  I'd say that's way farther upmarket than any Chrysler than the '59 Imperial.

[Ghoste]

But is it further upmarket than the Mercedes line?

[Charger_Croatia]

Very well could be. At least inasmuch as the American market goes. Merecedes is well regarded internationally but I don't know about Chrysler?

Yes Mercedes is the best regarded internationally.

Chrysler... Since I live outside USA I think I an give an opinion... Lexus, Audi, BMW are more regarded than Chrysler. CADILLAC is also more regarded.

Of course I'm Not including brands like Rolls Royce, Aston Martin, Maseratti, Ferrari and Lamborghinis.


Well in fact I think any deluxe European ( and in some cases not extremelly deluxe ones also, like Alfa Romeo ) is more regarded than Chrysler at least here.

  Simmilar here in my country. German cars are the most popular, although their price for base modeal is near well equiped Chrysler. Maybe problem is in the car size. Let's say that Sebring Sedan is midsize for the US marlket, and here with dimensions and equipment is is closer to Mercedes E-class and BMW 5 but with price much lower (at the same time 300 is considered to be near S-class). So, people might think that the quality is way behind those, which is not, trust me. They (Merceds) had a lot of problems with some models here.
Japanese are somewhere in the middle.

[Orange_Crush]

But is it further upmarket than the Mercedes line?

No, but when has it been?  Chryslers top out at 45 grand and any Mercedes worth owning starts right about there and goes all the way up to the 300,000 range (SLR) and then Maybach takes over.

Remember that in 2001, the most expensive Chrysler you could buy was a fully-optioned Minivan followed closely by the 300m.  The highest price was about 35 grand.

[Nacho-RT74]

Is not only a price stuff. Remember you can not compair prices between imported and locals. In Europe is opposite about price and STILL in that way Mercedes and similars is more regarded. Is about quality stuff. Mercedes is more quality... sorry buddies but I have both a Mopar and a Mercedes, both same age.

[Brock Samson]

  What I've been reading on the net for two years now (particuarly in auto extreamist) says that MB quality and customer satisfaction is many  points lower then it used to be because of electroncic glitches with it's many bells and whistles and it's new electronic braking systems.
A lot of these problems stem from the NEW E-class of which many thousands of the inital batch of prodution cars had to be swapped with later built cars because of electronic problems, at no charge to the owner but at an extreamly high cost to MB.
The new Chrysler LXs are baised on the  OLD E-class stuff (Incl. the electrical wiring harness and brakes) which were essentally bullet-proof.
The BMWs are having similar problems with their electronics and everyone pans BMWs' new electronic shifting system, and MBs electronic braking system which if i remember correctly are both being phased out.
I haven't read of either Audi or VW having the same numbers of complaints, and they share a large number of parts, platforms and electronic systems, being under the same corporate umbrella.
It takes a few years for consumer perceptions to catch up to the actual owners' experiances and Chrysler is still suffering from poor customer satisfaction earned two, three and even four model cycles ago.
My guess is that Chyslers' problem areas are allready far less then Mecedes (dispite price points) but perceptions lag.
And don't forget that begining with the Pacifica, all Chrysler's product launches have been delayed at least a Yr. and that Plymouth was the budget brand and Dodge now occupies that spot, The PT Cruiser was supposed to be a Plymouth and a value leader, not a Chysler, The Crossfire was simply to take up excess SLK Production due to low sales and foisted off on Chysler at essentually the last minute. and the Pacifica fond itself going head to head with the Lexus RX (and losing badly).
I guess you could say the "Merger" really screwed with MA MOPAR and all it's product intros which are two years later then what they would've been.

 

[Doc74]

Very valid points here.

Add on from a European pov....I agree that Mercedes is better quality than most if not all US cars but you pay a price for that. If I compare pricing for a Merc, BMW or an Audi and compare to any US car....you guys can go buy two for the price of one....and it's not like they fall apart....those are Korean...

Most US cars here not only cost as much as what you pay for a German or other import car but in most European countries you need to be rich to drive a car with anything bigger than a 3 L simply because of taxes.That's why many big American cars here all have mighty v6's in them....sad.

I drove a 68 charger, day in day out for nearly 5 years, without too many complaints btw  , but it was imported as a classic so tax and insurance cost me about 250 bucks a year, only thing i had to do was have another car, signed at the same insurance company which was my actual daily driver, so the 'classic' would be used for meets and weekends, but no limit on miles so....I bought a $100 Ford Fiesta from '81 which cost me $150 a year all in and let my sister in law use it as grocery getter, thing still runs too !

Now if I had it registered as a daily use passenger vehicle the annual roadtax only would be, hold on.....$5400 and that's 10 years ago.
Insurance back then was around $2500 but that was just basic, it would've never covered any costs in a collision, it's not like the fenders are on shelves here...or anywhere.
This is all because you pay on HP !!!!!!!   nuff said....

To pass the tech inspection I had to change the headlights, no sealed beams allowed here, Not sure about the windows, they needed to have a securit stamp but they do right ? Side markers needed to be yellow, all four and lots of other stuff, a fortune and lotsa time to get it done, a true nightmare.So classic was the way to go but...you guessed it, only works with a classic 
The new US cars of course pass the inspection right away since they all have the Euro standards on them when they're made for export, or even made in Europe.
But driving a 5L V8 costs a ton still, only the rich can do it.When it's a pick up, about 95% of all US cars on the roads here, it can be done.
Since a pick up or van and the likes are utility vehicles the taxes are extremely low which makes it doable.
Fuel cost is another major factor, even if it's not so, most Europeans think of mpg when they think US cars and at the moment at $6 a gallon it's something to best not think about too much.
Most people have an LPG system installed, it's a much cheaper and cleaner fuel but the installation itself can run up to $2000-$2500 .

The rep on US cars is not too bad, many Chrysler Voyagers (Dodge Caravan ?) you see here have a busted trans, engine or both so that's alarming but I rarely hear about serious problems, I have however heard plenty of Electrical mishaps in luxurious German cars and gearboxes that get stuck after 4000 miles in certain BMW's. Nasty stuff.
Audi and VW are about the most reliable and strong, well build car out there in their price range but they're very very expensive for what they are, I can't cough up 20k for a bone stock Golf you see on every street, literally, ewww.
I do wish however I had the cash for a former model Audi A8....how much do they go for in the US ? Might be doable there, it's only a 4.2 L for you anyway 

[Ghoste]

But is it further upmarket than the Mercedes line?

No, but when has it been?  Chryslers top out at 45 grand and any Mercedes worth owning starts right about there and goes all the way up to the 300,000 range (SLR) and then Maybach takes over.

Remember that in 2001, the most expensive Chrysler you could buy was a fully-optioned Minivan followed closely by the 300m.  The highest price was about 35 grand.

I never said they were.  I think you misunderstood me.  My point was that prior to the buyout, Chrysler was the top make for Chrysler and after the "merger of equals" Chrysler was definitely NOT the top make or even on an equal footing with it in DCX hierarchy.

[Orange_Crush]

But is it further upmarket than the Mercedes line?

No, but when has it been?  Chryslers top out at 45 grand and any Mercedes worth owning starts right about there and goes all the way up to the 300,000 range (SLR) and then Maybach takes over.

Remember that in 2001, the most expensive Chrysler you could buy was a fully-optioned Minivan followed closely by the 300m.  The highest price was about 35 grand.

I never said they were.  I think you misunderstood me.  My point was that prior to the buyout, Chrysler was the top make for Chrysler and after the "merger of equals" Chrysler was definitely NOT the top make or even on an equal footing with it in DCX hierarchy.

Okay, I see what you're saying.