Cincinnati's "Donk" law

[Troy]

I wasn't even aware of this until this morning (chalk that up to not bothering to watch or listen to the news). Cincinnati police are impounding vehicles with rims larger than 20" (unless factory installed). They are using rather generic state and city ordinances against "unsafe" vehicles as justification. I'd be more inclined to think that it's a ploy to enable stopping more suspected drug dealers when there's no other reason to pull them over.
http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/dayton-news/cincinnati-police-target-impound-modified-cars-1143860.html

Before anyone jumps in to say how great of an idea this is, consider that there doesn't appear to be any evidence that larger rims are "unsafe" - ie cause more accidents/fatalities or just fail outright. Also consider that these rims aren't all that big (perhaps on a Civic but not on an SUV). It lends itself nicely to a "modified cars = bad" mindset. In my opinion, specifically targeted laws like these open the door for other, equally intrusive laws that very well could affect our hobby. No matter the good intentions, this sort of thing never seems to achieve the stated goals - and usually causes more harm than good.

Cincinnati already has a poor reputation when it comes to race relations and this certainly won't help change that view. On the other hand, City Council has hamstrung the police so much that I'm not surprised to see some "creative" enforcement procedures.

Troy

[Ghoste]

I agree with you Troy.  Automotive profiling is no better than any other kind.

[terrible one]

Unbelievable. Definitely just profiling. I'll bet at least some of these wheels are DOT approved or whatever certification wheels have to pass. Where's the evidence of danger?

[Rolling_Thunder]

Some people could argue putting a significantly larger wheel and tire package (say 26") in the place of an original 14" or 15" wheel adds a problem due to weight. The added weight of the wheel and tire effects braking performance of the vehicle. The added height of the vehicle makes it more prone to roll over.

I'm sure they will justify it some how.

[rt green]

i can see it now-'hey buddy, what are you in for?'

[kab69440]

For the few of those vehicles I have seen in person, the problem is not the size of the rim, it's the cobbled steering and suspension components that make the vehicle unsafe. Yet I agree, profiling is profiling. A turd by any other name smells like a turd all the same.

[Tilar]

I'm still trying to figure out who decided that all profiling is a bad thing? Personally I think some of them look stupid but that's just my opinion. I don't remember seeing any wrecks caused by the wheels. It wouldn't really surprise me but I don't know that they are unsafe.

[elacruze]

How do the Cincinnati police handle 4x4s with 40" swampers? Are they OK because they're on 15" rims? They have stock brakes, high CG and all the same driveline/steering issues, and the wheel assemblies are far heavier than Donk wheels. I'm betting that a good ol' boy in his truck gets a wave from the cop who pulls and tickets the donk.

[Cooter]

As a Certified Saftey Inspector here in Va. We don't have to worry bout jacked up redneck trucks, tubbed out cars, and "Donked" cars with cobbled up steering at all, as NONE of them will pass State inspection if unsafe. You wanna run those 44" Super Swampers, go right ahead as long as you don't mind being pulled and ticketed every two weeks until the state police pulls your junk off the road for the "Height law". You wanna "donk" out a 1981 Monte Carlo and paint stupid sh*t all over the side like "Dr. Pepper" (As IF they actually sponsor you), go right ahead as long as you can handle the tickets. There's a reason things like this are "Uncommon"..It's most times, illeagal! People kill me sometimes. Good on Ohio for keeping these idiots of the road in these horrid vehicles.

[Mike DC]

  

Llet's get these unsafe street racers off the roads too.  Why should anyone be driving around every day in a 40yo antique, polluting the atmosphere, burning gas, and endangering everyone else's life when they play Richard Petty on public roads?  Nobody builds 500 hp into a car unless they intend to use it.  Let them keep those cars for the racetracks.  We should demand that the public roads be full of safe clean, low-MPG modern vehicles.      

[Ponch ®]

Good on Ohio for keeping these idiots of the road in these horrid vehicles.

They may be horrid, but you're missing the point. Laws like these set dangerous precedents for the car hobby altogether. After this, whats to stop some well meaning "civic leader" trying get on the good side of the tree huggers from passing a law that says driving a 40+ year old vehicle is a "safety issue" because they're deathtraps and dont meet current safety standards, and the carb can catch fire, and so on, and so on? Not that it probably hasnt already happened in some places...

I have a car on 22" wheels which dont pose a safety hazard and I most certainly don't deal drugs, gangbang, or carry illegal guns. Pimping..well, thats a different story. 

[A383Wing]

Some people could argue putting a significantly larger wheel and tire package (say 26") in the place of an original 14" or 15" wheel adds a problem due to weight. The added weight of the wheel and tire effects braking performance of the vehicle. The added height of the vehicle makes it more prone to roll over.

I'm sure they will justify it some how.

this

the larger tires & rims put an extra burden on the brakes....those should be upgraded as well

[Ponch ®]

Some people could argue putting a significantly larger wheel and tire package (say 26") in the place of an original 14" or 15" wheel adds a problem due to weight. The added weight of the wheel and tire effects braking performance of the vehicle. The added height of the vehicle makes it more prone to roll over.

I'm sure they will justify it some how.

this

the larger tires & rims put an extra burden on the brakes....those should be upgraded as well

Putting a 440 in 318 car poses a similar risk. And, yes they should be upgraded...but who's going to police it?

[terrible one]

Some people could argue putting a significantly larger wheel and tire package (say 26") in the place of an original 14" or 15" wheel adds a problem due to weight. The added weight of the wheel and tire effects braking performance of the vehicle. The added height of the vehicle makes it more prone to roll over.

I'm sure they will justify it some how.

this

the larger tires & rims put an extra burden on the brakes....those should be upgraded as well

Putting a 440 in 318 car poses a similar risk. And, yes they should be upgraded...but who's going to police it?

Yep and this kind of brings Troys original comment about this opening the gate for other laws back around. Maybe next putting in a bigger engine than what came from the factory will be considered illegal and unsafe

[ChgrSteve67]

Another example of selective law enforcement.

The lawyers will have a field day with this.

[Troy]

I agree that some of these cars can be unsafe. All of them? Probably not. Very unlikely actually. One of the issues would be bumper height - but I think you'd need some 30" rims to raise an old Cutlass up past the bumper height laws. Most lifted 4x4 owners with huge tires are smart enough to have custom bumpers to get them down below the safe height (which *is* specified in the state law). Another issue is obviously braking and handling but, as far as I know, there aren't any written standards for what is acceptable. If there were, I bet half the old cars would fail and many of the newer cars that have never had maintenance would fail as well. I'm grateful that our state doesn't have the ridiculous inspections that some other states have but it does make "safe" very open to interpretation.

When I was younger I routinely got pulled over for stupid stuff. In all cases it was just a way to pull me over to see if there was anything interesting (warrants, alcohol, drugs, etc.) and I never got a ticket. Part of the reason is that I worked second shift and was always coming home at about the time the bars closed. I'm not always against profiling but I'm not a fan of over-reaching government (particularly local).

Troy

[Lennard]

As a Certified Saftey Inspector here in Va. We don't have to worry bout jacked up redneck trucks, tubbed out cars, and "Donked" cars with cobbled up steering at all, as NONE of them will pass State inspection if unsafe. You wanna run those 44" Super Swampers, go right ahead as long as you don't mind being pulled and ticketed every two weeks until the state police pulls your junk off the road for the "Height law". You wanna "donk" out a 1981 Monte Carlo and paint stupid sh*t all over the side like "Dr. Pepper" (As IF they actually sponsor you), go right ahead as long as you can handle the tickets. There's a reason things like this are "Uncommon"..It's most times, illeagal! People kill me sometimes. Good on Ohio for keeping these idiots of the road in these horrid vehicles.

I'm glad I don't live in Virginia...

[redmist]

I run 40" tires on the street all the time...  <-------  see photo by name. And the Jeep is lower then a stock F-150. 

[440]

I'm not a fan of "goofy" laws just for revenue raising but I'm all for saving classic cars from having donks put on them....

I was following a person a while back who was in a fairly late model Cadillac. He had a hub cap spinner in his steering wheel and was spinning it as he drove. I still wonder what would happen to his "grill" if his airbag went off...

[bill440rt]

The larger wheels, IF installed with larger diameter tires, will affect braking to some degree and most modern ABS systems. It will throw the ABS system off completely. That's where the safety issue comes into play.

But still, I can definitely see how a law like that can & could spread to our hobby. Well, it kinda already does. They're car guys just like you & me, just in a "different" way.

Too bad. Don't pick up the soap.

[Mr.Woolery]

First they came for the communists Ricers,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist Ricer.

Then they came for the trade unionists Donks,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist didn't drive a Donk.

Then they came for the Jews Lowriders,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew Lowrider.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

[oldgold69]

  right on the money

[dkn1997]

I most certainly don't deal drugs, gangbang, or carry illegal guns. Pimping..well, thats a different story. 

you just haven't met the right woman yet

[Ponch ®]

I most certainly don't deal drugs, gangbang, or carry illegal guns. Pimping..well, thats a different story. 

you just haven't met the right woman yet

that kind of woman ain't never the "right" one. 

[dkn1997]

I most certainly don't deal drugs, gangbang, or carry illegal guns. Pimping..well, thats a different story. 

you just haven't met the right woman yet

that kind of woman ain't never the "right" one. 

one man's trash is anoth.... well, you know the rest 

[A383Wing]

 

[ChgrSteve67]

Glad to see you finally finished your latest project.

For those that didn't know Bryan is a closet Donk driver.

[Paul G]

There was talk last year, and I think it was Ohio, about passing new laws against reckless driving. It would leave the determination of what is reckless up to the arresting officer. Reckless driving could be anything from street racing, squealing tires, gross show of performance, or loud mufflers. The fine was to be forfeiture of the vehicle. I think I read about this in Car and Driver, or Road and Track or a mag like that. It all goes hand in hand. Go after one small group first, then go get the others. 

Read my sig!

[TK73]

donk ... dork


1 letter...

[aussiemuscle]

caused by stupid cars like this

[elacruze]

Has anyone here or anyone you know of seen a donk in an accident?
From what I see, these guys drive very slowly and carefully. Certainly because they don't want to be pulled over, possibly because they're afraid of the car, likely that they just want others to get plenty of time to see how cool they are.
I don't like the cars, but I still haven't seen one as extreme as the 4x4s I see every day. I say leave them alone.

[Patronus]

I think the whole place is going to shit.. 

[Troy]

There was talk last year, and I think it was Ohio, about passing new laws against reckless driving. It would leave the determination of what is reckless up to the arresting officer. Reckless driving could be anything from street racing, squealing tires, gross show of performance, or loud mufflers. The fine was to be forfeiture of the vehicle. I think I read about this in Car and Driver, or Road and Track or a mag like that. It all goes hand in hand. Go after one small group first, then go get the others. 

Read my sig!

Yep, that was Ohio too.

Troy

[Tilar]

http://youtu.be/8znD7-l5Tmo

[elacruze]

http://youtu.be/8znD7-l5Tmo

Funny, but are you suggesting that this qualifies as an 'accident'? I don't think it does.

[Tilar]

Who claimed that qualified as an accident? I just posted the link, I'm sorry if it offended you.

[Khyron]

caused by stupid cars like this

BUHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Circle the wagons boys!

[ChgrSteve67]

Reminds me of the first monster trucks when the wheels were tall and skiney.

[elacruze]

Who claimed that qualified as an accident? I just posted the link, I'm sorry if it offended you.

No offense, just checking. 

[Arigmaster]

Perhaps a different approach should be taken on these cars...

The donk cars look stupid to me but on the same note, some thought my '68 charger looked stupid with a Daytona wing on it. To each their own.

However, any "major structural modification" should be subject to safety inspection. Perhaps also requiring special registration as well. Once inspected and registered then it won't leave any room for the vehicle profiling.

This will enable people the freedom to build their car as stupid looking as they want as long as it's proven for safe use on public highways and streets. Proof of the vehicle passing would be the license plate.

Here in Wisconsin, we have the collector plates, but also we have the "Hobbyst" plates but those are mostly for vehicles modified beyond the point where the emissions would ever pass (run on racing fuel) or for home built vehicles.

Just my 

[elacruze]

How about an 'experimental' class, just like aircraft? Inspection required, fee paid, but not restricted.

[Cooter]

Funny thing is, those states without some sort of "Annual Inspection" have people driving round in daily drivers that are completely unsafe. It kills me how many will subject their children to unsafe conditions just to save a few bucks cause they think the "Mechanic" is trying to "Rip them off" again. I've seen out of state vehicles that PARENTS have stuck little "Suzie/Johnny" in that come in to be inspected as (they have to register the car here if they are residing here for over 1 years period), that I wouldn't put my kid in. Rusted all to hell underneath from YEARS of Road Salt and sh*t up north...Floors gone, brakes locked up, suspension completely rusted and broken, wheels that will NOT come off come inspection time, etc.

You guys think Va. is bad for an annual inspection? Next time your driving round your "Inspection free" state , take a good look at what's in front of you and your family being driven down the road because there's no law to MAKE these people repair these vehicles properly....Annual inspections are NOT the enemy, and we get lit up juts as bad for NOT passing something that should pass, just like we get lit up for passing something that shouldn't pass. There is a rule book gentlemen, not some "Made up" sh*t we Deem "Unsafe"...But, if you think your gonna ride down mainstreet USA in Virginia with your truck OR CAR, jacked all up in the air when you CLEARLY KNOW THE LAW, your sadly mistaken and you will conform...Just like the rest of us sooner or later...Antique cars and the tags are a different story and there are those that abuse that too, but that's another thing alltogether.

[elacruze]

Personally, I'll take my chances with all the $81T buckets on the road rather than have the government tell me how my car can or cannot be.

[Troy]

Cooter: I'd agree BUT... most of the time these things end up being a money grab in the name of "safety". Safety inspections themselves are not necessarily a bad thing. A massive undertaking that affects every resident of a state better significantly lessen the number accidents per year (fatal or otherwise) attributed to equipment malfunction. Otherwise it's just an annoyance and more government intrusion. I'd like fewer laws/rules/regulations/fees please - or at least ones that make sense. I think all laws (programs) should have a clearly stated goal and be reviewed on a regular basis to see if they're accomplishing the goal. If not, good bye! And take the nimrods who wrote it too.

Arigmaster: I abhor what I consider "discriminatory laws" (and taxes) where only one group - usually a small percentage of the population - is affected. Paying a special fee to register my modified car is pretty much extortion. I agree that it might (possibly) take some of the ambiguity out of the system but it adds a lot of complexity. Do I have to re-inspect the car (and pay) if I change anything? Does the car have a checklist of modifications that were approved? How do I fight/argue the decision? Is there a time limit or expiration? Does the next owner have to jump through the hoops all over again? It ends up being a nightmare for the owner. More bureaucracy rarely makes anything better.

Troy