440 thermostat, what u guys run, also pic of the wife!!!

[69chargeryeehaa]

ok, first off here is a pic of the wife to get u guys in the mood:

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d13/69martin/badluck.swf

now that we got that out of the way my question is i have a 69 charger with a 440, and i'm wondering what thermostat u guys run and why? i currently have a 195 deg F thermostat, from what i inderstand it is better to run it at 195 so that the combustion chamber remains hot enough to burn all the fuel, with todays crappy fuel.  am i right? why not run a 160?

thanks,

martin

[MyMopar]

That's a good question.  My temp doesn't climb over 170 and I was wondering if that is hurting performance at all?

[69chargeryeehaa]

awwwww come on guys, the pic was'nt that bad was it?

any input?

martin

[andy74]

your wifes pic hurt my eyes!(just kidding)

i run a 160 in mine,not real concerend about the heater/defroster working up to 100 percent,and i ve always been told that the motor makes more power with a cooler temp

[69chargeryeehaa]

andy, i thought the colder air makes the engine make more power? as far as temp, i noticed when i tried a 160 stat the exhaust smelled rich ???then i put the 195 back and that went away, the motor seems to like to run hotter, i'm thinking with todays fuels being crappy the hotter compustion chamber temp burns the fuel better, unless u have tonns of $ and like to feed the thursty 440 premimum funny thing is that with the 160 stat temp allways was 150-160, when i put the 195 in, the temp on first warm up would go to 210, stat would open and temp would drop like a rock to 170, then up to 195, stat opens, down to 190 and then 190-195 all day, then the next time i would drive the same thing would happen only from cold? wtf?  i think the stat is sticking.  before i change it i was wondering what u guys run and why?

martin

[andy74]

i would say that the one you have may have been sticking,but its normal for the temp to go over the rated amount,thats when they open.i tuned my car with the cooler thermostat,so i never noticed a rich condition,but for what its worth,if the car is to lean it will run hotter also.also timing be to advanced will make it run hot also.id check the basics before i changed thermostats-Andy

[Nacho-RT74]

I'm runing a 195 º degrees Thermostat... but I will give you an acuratelly response when I get a new carb since mine is damaged. Rigth now I can't tell you about better or not performance

About temp. My temp gauge is between center and 2/3 of scale, but of course I live in a tropical country with also heavy transit. oftenly I also have the needle between 1/3 and half of scale, but that is not common.

Oh I'm running a 400 with Thermoquad carb, 850cfms ( when is good LOL ).

When I'm warming up the engine, yes, needle goes up to 3/4 of scale and then get down quick to the middle. Of course when Thermostat opens.

[Charger_Fan]

I am a fish & I like hooks.

[is_it_EVER_done?]

First, you must be married to my ex. The vocabulary is the same, and the pic changes colors each time her mood does.  


The question of best operating temperature is one of the very few questions that has a definitive, proven answer, which is 190â€"195 degrees.

An engine operated at 160 will wear at about DOUBLE the rate of one operated at 190. That’s been tested and proven numerous times. Not only will it wear twice as fast, it will build up carbon deposits on the pistons, combustion chambers, valves, etc., can’t boil off the moisture in the block and oil, will get lower gas milage, and produce increased emissions.

You can make more power at 160 degrees or less, but it’s generally in the range of 5 or 6 HP, which is hardly worth the difference between a 50,000-mile engine lifespan vs. 100,000-mile life. Besides, you can get more HP than that just by maximizing the engines tune, jetting, and timing curve.

On the same subject, with the exception of antifreeze, you should never use anything but distilled water in the cooling system. The calcium in tap water leaches to the cooling passages which may not only cause clogs, but is one of the best insulators in existence. 1/10th inch of calcium is equal to  ¾ inch of firebrick, and the calcium builds up at the hottest points, which creates a vicious cycle.

[Plumcrazy]

180* in mine.   

[Chryco Psycho]

often running a 160 will not keep the engine cooler as the stat never closes & allows time for the water in the rad to cool , I generally run 185 or 195

[69chargeryeehaa]

thanks is it ever done? that was the explanation i was looking for.  it was my gut feeling, when i had the 160 stat in my car i could not tune it for the life of me, i agree with all your theorys, i think that most people run a colder stat to compermise a weak cooling system and bandaid overheating.  my 440 can run all day in hot weather at 195 and no problems, so i think i'll just keep the 195 in.

[is_it_EVER_done?]

Your welcome 69yeehaw, but I don’t offer theories unless I specifically state so. The wear/temperature coefficient is simple, unarguable fact, which has been scientifically tested and proven many times.

As you can see by the attached graph, wear is exponential as temperature is reduced. You can visit the website that is superimposed over the pic for more information.




Here is a couple of interesting sites that are short and to the point. The first is a paraphrased explanation from the University of Alaska (they have to deal with the extremes of cold operating temperatures daily).

http://www.gi.alaska.edu/ScienceForum/ASF7/747.html



This is a summarized report from Polaris Labs. Keep in mind that this was done on the coolant breakdown due to lack of maintenance, and not primarily wear/temperature relationship (though it proves the same thing). However it has quite a bit of information on other related factors that would have never be considered (by me anyway), such as the thermal insulating properties of cooling system deposits, the necessity of good engine to frame and battery grounds as related to cooling system/extraneous engine and cooling system wear, as well as the need to change the coolant regularly.

http://polarislabs1.com/new-engine.htm


Lastly, as I forgot to address your question in my initial post as to whether your temperature should rise above the temperature value of the thermostat, then drop down after it opens.   No it shouldn’t. It sounds as though your thermostat is getting ready to fail, or at least has some sort of problem such as debris, or is installed upside down (assuming your temperature gauge is relatively accurate). A century of design has resulted in an ingenious feature that is designed to have the thermostat fail in the open position as a “fail safe”. This seems to work about 99.0% of the time, and a noticeable fluctuation is a relatively sure indication that it needs replaced. â€" Go with a “balanced flow” thermostat, as that is the current state of the art design, although it’s a few bucks more.

[is_it_EVER_done?]

Sorry, but the graph showed up at the bottom, and a "red X" appeared in it's place. for future reference, can someone explain how to do it properly?

Thanks.

[69chargeryeehaa]

  i agree - is it ever done,

i just swapped out the thermostat, now it just goes to 195 and opens, the old one was ready to fail. i boiled it and it was stuck closed until i pushed it and it shot open, glad i changed it out.   i got a better one, which is a heavier duty one, plus while boiling the new one i noticed that they never really totally close, it's not just open and close, it gradually does this, the better one compared to the cheep one is totally different, it opens and closes more smoothly.   i totally agree on the engine temperature, alot of people misunderstand what i ment when i was commenting about people using a 160 stat to compermise a over heating problem, what i ment was that if someone puts a 195 in and they run at 210 then there is obviously a issue with the cooling system, either there is a blockage, the rad is to small, ect, by using a 160 thermostat, they bandaid the issue by basically having the stat open all the time, never letting the engine heat up so much as to overcome the cooling abilities, make sence? anyhows, i think that from everything i've read the 195 stat is the way to go, unless you only want half the amount of engine life

[Dodge Don]

180

[firefighter3931]

  Fwiw, my 1990 beater truck has 270,000 kilometers (170k miles) on the clock and runs like a top. Compression is fine with zero blowby last time i checked a few months ago. Oil change every 3500 miles is the key to longevity....works for me. The truck has allways had a 180* thermostat. I also regulate the temp in my Mopars at 180* as well. 

Ron