Coming back to reality/senses

[G-man]

Hi guys

You all heard/read what im tryng to do/where im trying to go with my muscle car/ferrari Idea.

Well having spoken to enough people, got enough opinions, the conclusion I got is this.


To buy an exotc car (lamborghini DIablo, Ferrari F355, even a Bugatti Veyron/Enzo Ferrari/Porche GT Carrera/GT3 etc) For the purpose of 'handling better than a dodge charger with $200 000 thrown at it' is a stupid idea.

Reason being - THose cars dont handle that great either compare to race cars.

My conclusion is this

In reality, if I am after the maximum performance on a race track to just 'fly' at Gs.

Im better off spending $100 000 on an older model F1 car. It will run circles around a 2 milion dollar Veyron. It will give the ultimate handling experience cause guess what, ITS AN F1 CAR.

Thats the ultimate I can get for 'track fun'.

That means as far as street is concerned,

The only thing that will be used is 'straight line' performance. And when I go to the track, take the F1 car with me (not the muscle car, not the Exotic idea I had either as its not much better).

SO that in my understanding means...

U buy an exotic car for what it 'is' (just like u have a muscle car for what it is, rather than what they are not as stated by many people).

So
A: Buy the car you like the look of most (Diablo, Ferrari, Lotus, Dodge Charger, whatever)
B: Make it go fast in a straight line with plenty HP to be fun
C: Leave it at home and use your race car for the track to get the ultimate experience there.

That way you got something really fun for street use (750hp 68 CHarger, 700hp Lamborghini Diablo whatever)

And you got the max fun you can get for track fun (F1 car).

And having these 2 will be cheaper than trying to modify a street car to perform the way it never will. Got best of both worlds this way and cheaper to achieve.

Considering this

Charger has back seats (exotics dont), Charger has space to fill up the trunk to go camping with (forget the exotic for this, no trunk), with a 8.6 Litre 528ci Hemi cranking out 700HP, thats going to be anything but slow. Will it handle like an exotic? Doesnt matter, the exotic aint going track either, thats what the F1 car is for.

So realy just get what I like the feel of... yes the exotic will be just as quick as the charger if it had 700hp cause its much lighter, looks different, totaly different feel inside the car, totaly different experience.

So forget buying exotics or modifying the charger  for race, get F1 car for that, and keep the dodge or get the Lambo/Ferrari if I prefer the 'look' of those cars and the way they feel. Nothing else as both the dodge/exotic will be used the same way, street driving, with hard acceleration and thats all. Comes to track day, take the F1 car (or a purpose built race car that would run circles around any exotic car)

Thanks for everything though... If I didnt go on this wild goose chase I never woulda seen things this way.

So I just gotta decide now whether I want the Charger with 700hp and a race car for track or whether I would still prefer a Lambo/Ferrari with 700hp and a race car for track.

[charger Downunder]

Hi George,
Coming back to reality/senses Your still not there yet. 

[Silver R/T]

If you have more than than brains you can buy whatever you want

[adauto]

Whatever rocks your world..... 

[Laxy]

Mate, buying an F1 car is not coming back to reality!!? My head hurts after reading that. If you want a track car you've gotta start out with something cheap and slow so you don't kill yourself.

[SFRT]

Believe in the power of meth!

[freddyd02]

Wow what terrible decisions you have to make.. Cant believe you have to choose between a 700hp Charger or a Ferrari, your life must be horrible.. wait i think i hear a tiny little violin playing.. 

[bull]

So I just gotta decide now whether I want the Charger with 700hp and a race car for track or whether I would still prefer a Lambo/Ferrari with 700hp and a race car for track.

I'm going to ignore the F1 business because I really don't know where you are going with that. Why anyone would want to spend $100k on a weekend go-kart is beyond me. Also, the maintenance on an F1, Ferrari, Bugatti, Lamborghini, etc., is going to kill you unless you make $500k/year. You just look at any of those mid engine exotic cars cross-eyed and it's a $1,000 bill. Anyway, you're here asking a bunch of Charger owners if you should buy a 700 hp Charger or a 700 hp Lambo/Ferrari. Well, I guess I'd have to say go with the Charger. Unless you live in Italy the Charger is going to cost a lot less money to build, upgrade and maintain.

[Mike DC]

   
Welcome back to the Charger world.  Sorry if we gave you a hard time about leaving. 


IMHO there is one way to go fast - a small lightweight vehicle that's cheap to fix/replace.  Any significant deviance from this basic formula will work to take some of the fun out of it. 

[440]

Why not just buy a 2nd Charger or any other car you like the look of and turn it into a race car to start with. Even an older F1 car wont be cheap to run by any means. A "normal" race car for lack of a better term will be MUCH cheaper to run and just as fun. 

If you want speed thrills that will knock your socks off why not buy a Shifter Kart ? That will be plenty to thrill you and is like F1 of the carting world at a fraction of the price.....

[RallyeMike]

How long have you been trying to figure this out?

[Darkman]

Why not just buy a 2nd Charger

If he hasn't sold his red one by now, then he does have 2 68's!

[doctor4766]

I think a mid life crisis is inevitable here

[charger Downunder]

Why not just buy a 2nd Charger

If he hasn't sold his red one by now, then he does have 2 68's!

Yep he has Two 68 Chargers and a 70 Challenger the red one is still sitting at my place and its a manual 4 speed.
George have you learned how to drive a manual (stick shift) yet.? As you will need to know for the track.

[440]

Is his red one as nice as his blue one ?

[G-man]

No its not AS nice as the Blue Charger.

All I meant by the whole ordeal, was not that I should go and buy an F1 car. I meant if racing was something im serious about, then I could buy a 'race' car of some sort that would be faster than any exotic, rather than trying to make exotics or these muscle cars something there not.

On the other hand, a good sugestion made was, Keep the car I love to cruise in (whether thats the 68 or an exotic), drive up to a race track with that  cool street car, hire out a race car for the day, drive it, have fun, leave the tuning/maintenence car behind and sit back in my street car and drive home.

If I find myself racing alot, then, I can go look into buying a 'race' car. If its not something done often, then Im cheaper off hiring one out and leaving the maintenence/storage/tuning issues to them. Have fun with it for the day and leave it behind.

[Laxy]

Learning to drive a manual might be a good start to your racing career.

What's the story with the 70 Challenger? Still registered? I'd be putting a lot of miles on the 2 Chargers and the Challengers before making any decisions, having you taken them down the strip? Done a club day at a track etc? Gone on car cruises? Really gotten into the Mopar community?

That is a collection of Mopar muscle to die for... less time thinking about car dreams from primary school and more time enjoying what you have might change your mind for good.

[doctor4766]

Learning to drive a manual might be a good start to your racing career.

What's the story with the 70 Challenger? Still registered? I'd be putting a lot of miles on the 2 Chargers and the Challengers before making any decisions, having you taken them down the strip? Done a club day at a track etc? Gone on car cruises? Really gotten into the Mopar community?

That is a collection of Mopar muscle to die for... less time thinking about car dreams from primary school and more time enjoying what you have might change your mind for good.

Well said

[440]

Exactly, how many people would kill to have the cars he has ?

[Brock Samson]

No its not AS nice as the Blue Charger.

All I meant by the whole ordeal, was not that I should go and buy an F1 car. I meant if racing was something im serious about, then I could buy a 'race' car of some sort that would be faster than any exotic, rather than trying to make exotics or these muscle cars something there not.

On the other hand, a good sugestion made was, Keep the car I love to cruise in (whether thats the 68 or an exotic), drive up to a race track with that  cool street car, hire out a race car for the day, drive it, have fun, leave the tuning/maintenence car behind and sit back in my street car and drive home.

If I find myself racing alot, then, I can go look into buying a 'race' car. If its not something done often, then Im cheaper off hiring one out and leaving the maintenence/storage/tuning issues to them. Have fun with it for the day and leave it behind.

   

[six-tee-nine]

Dude what are U smoking?

If you have Bugatti Veyron money in your hands, then stop whining and go shopping. I would like to have a track car for pleasure but I would try to buy a late 80's or early 90's touring car or a race oriented Porsche 911. When you're stuck in traffic every day you can have fun in such a pocket rocket on a race track.

[HeavyFuel]

Gman, your posts are worth reading  just for the pure entertainment value.

But I gotta ask, did a pile of money fall out of the sky and land on you?  Most finacially successful people don't have scattered thought patterns like you seem to have, so this must be old money were talking about here.  Or maybe you hit the lottery.  

I mean, really, do you think that the regular folks at this site, which is dedicated to loving the classic muscle Charger, really give a hoot if you want buy a supercar of some flavor?  

You don't happen to be bipolar, are you?  

[twodko]

Believe in the power of meth!

[G-man]

Biploar?   No.

No lottery. Ive started business and within the next 12 months I will have the funds for a Ferrari.

The only reason I mentioned what I did was to go off what I asked last time about 'selling' all my Chargers, Buying a ferrari as it 'handles better'.

Obviously after research and many opinions (from ferrari etc owners), id be absolutelly MAD to modify them in any way. They also said these cars are not race cars... sure they handle a lot better than standard street cars but are still 'street cars'. It was them who mentioned if Im going for straight out performance to not waste money on an Exotic car and just buy a race car for 1/3rd of the price and it will run circles around exotics. It was these exotic owners that said "u buy a ferrari because u have a passion for that sort of car" its not about numbers on a skid pad or numbers in a quarter mile (as race cars would do this alot better for a lot less $).

So going off that, I already got a beautiful street car, 68 Charger. Since the exotic wont be used any other way than the charger, then the numbers become irrelivant. All that becomes relivant is how it feels when the pedals down to the ground (and both muscle/exotic will be extremelly quick)

So the point was going off my last post about selling charger to get something that 'handles' has become obsolete cause exotics (even a Veyron) doesnt handle like a race car which costs thousands and thousands (milion in case of veyron) less.

So all Im left with is, do u want a ferrari as a cruising car with 500hp, or do u want to be seen in a charger with 500-600hp.

[Cooperman]

[Arthu®]

http://www.arielatom.com/

http://www.caparo-t1.com/

Both should give you the adrenaline of a Formula 3000 car and yet be driven on the street. Keep the Charger for cruising.

Arthur

[Darkman]

So all Im left with is, do u want a ferrari as a cruising car with 500hp, or do u want to be seen in a charger with 500-600hp.

I know what I would be parking my backside in if that was my choice (and you have 2 of them at the moment  )

[freddyd02]

G-man.. Where do you live? America?

[Mike DC]

                
Has anyone suggested a Shelby Cobra kit car yet?  There's lots of options there, lots of aftermarket support, and even plenty of decent used ones on the market.

(Yeah, some of them are very expensive.  But that's true for just about anything.  Get enough enthusiasts together and they can find ways to make a Ford Pinto cost $40K.  A Cobra kit car doesn't NEED to be that expensive if you don't chase after that last 10% of the perfection and performance.)

 

[Tilar]

Biploar?   No.

No lottery. Ive started business and within the next 12 months I will have the funds for a Ferrari.

I know a whole lot of business people that would love to have that sort of insight for their business and the economy.

[Marck]

http://www.arielatom.com/

http://www.caparo-t1.com/

Both should give you the adrenaline of a Formula 3000 car and yet be driven on the street. Keep the Charger for cruising.

Arthur

Exactly..

The Ariel Atom seems to be pretty insane, from what I've seen on tests...

[Laxy]

G-man.. Where do you live? America?

He lives in Australia, and as a disclaimer can I just say aussie Mopar guys are NOT like this, vast majority of us would sell our left nut before letting go of our beloved Chargers... and we don't sit around discussing euro cars and magical horsepower numbers like 10 year olds... it's getting farking embarrassing.

Oh and everyone drives stick shift 

[G-man]

I was just  sharring what was going through my mind and why the charger isnt worth selling if 'handling' numbers was the objective.
If australians  cant talk about moving up in the world perhaps by owning an exotic car, then that explains why most australians are broke and hold onto there old cars. Its the best they can afford. And 500hp isnt a magical number, its a number very very very very easily achievable with Mopars. Like, its next to normal to have that.

So I dont see the problem. If you wanna get down to abuse about someone just trying to work out what they really desire by talking as though Chargers are the God of cars hence ud sel your left nut before letting one go... you got rocks in your head, its 40 year old technology, mass produced vehicles, compare to that of only a few thousand made and hand crafted machines that are far superior.

My only purpose in keeping Charger over an exotic would be because it looks the way it does (really tough rather than really fast like the ferrari, different image), can make HP very easily and reliably and has a trunk/boot to put things into, but the ferrari would be better for business cause it has that image about it, its called success.
I only shared info with you guys to get my thoughts out, get some educated feedback so i can work out what I trully desire to own, Not to be told Bla bla bla that has nothing to do with anything. Some of you posted some good feedback and thankyou.  Im supprised that the ferrari owners, none of them went on some "your an idiot" tangent for even comparing an old car to a ferrari. They simply tried to help me understand why I would want a Ferrari, why I wouldnt want a ferrari, and for what reason I should NOT sell my Charger to own a ferrari. It was quite good feedback, as said, they told me to NOT sell the chagrer if handling numbers was the aim as I would regret selling the Charger as its a classic (even if the Ferrari is a superior car and there passion is ferrari, they just didnt want me making a mistake or getting something I wont be passionate about and thus having lost an all original 68 Charger over something that really isnt for me, though they ofcourse would own a ferrari ovr any old car, they just tried to help ME not give me there opinion as to why the ferraris are better and why I should get one). and hence I came back here replying to an older thread as to what I could do if I wanted to keep the charger. Or atleast, shared my conclusion of the matter with you as to what I had realised.

And then the replies I get here are shit. So Ferrari owners try to help a guy work out what he really wants (even if its to keep the charger which has nothing to do with the ferrari) while charger owners just take the piss out on him as though they had a gold mine in this car so it was for that reason unthinkable to even start.

[Darkman]

George, in all honesty you would be better off selling one of your Chargers (the red one) and use that money and save more for an exotic. That way you have one of each! Keep the blue one.

Image does mean a whole lot when it comes to business. Yes, an exotic would mean "success" but it could also mean he makes too much money and could be robbing people blind (depending on what business you are in and what exotic you drive). Also owning an exotic as a "statement" could be risky too. If you had an older model and looks a bit tired and in need of work, the image you may be portraying is "try hard". If you want to portray "success", get a BMW or Merc. Having a classic shows "class" which also may help your image (which you already have 2 off)

Don't forget that you came on this forum (a Dodge Charger forum) telling everyone you want to sell your Charger for an exotic, you have to expect some flack about it. It just comes across as you are not really sure what you want to do (use the car for racing or image for your business) and that is probably why you are copping flack about it. I do not think that you can have both a racer and an image statement for your business in one car. You really need to decide what it is you want to achieve. It is your decision ultimately and good luck with whatever you decide.

[bull]

I was just sharring what was going through my mind and why the charger isnt worth selling if 'handling' numbers was the objective.

It's always a good idea to run stuff through the stupid filter (sometimes twice) before you post it on the internet.

[Laxy]

Hahahahahaha!!! Oh man, where do I begin? I guess we all own 'old cars' because we can't afford anything better in your eyes. You couldn't be missing the point of owning a classic car any more if you tried. On second thoughts I will refrain from going further:

'Never get into an argument with an idiot, because they only bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience'

[G-man]

Perhaps bull but then I wouldnt work out anything cause I dont have feedback from others.

Laxy I wasnt saying in my eyes they 'cant' afford in the literal term, im saying, if u wanna go down that line of thinking/abuse then things like that (a certain angle of looking at it) could be said.

So the point was, dont even go that way cause much more could be said on the other side of the coin.

I was never into the whole 'heritage' thing. I only get a  car based on

A: Does it look the way I want it to
B: Does it go hard when the foots planted (go as good as it looks)
C: Fun/comfortable to drive

WHATEVER name or make that may be. In the muscle car world, they look tough hence they look like there full of power, hence the Chargers just the best car out there for that, nothing is tougher looking and with a big engine it will go as hard as it looks it will go. To me its never been about some 'history' aspect of it. It either looks good or doesnt. It either goes hard or doesnt its either fun to drive or it isnt.

Darkman, thanks... ultimatelly if I was to go down that road, Id be looking at a Countache/Diablo. I just like something 'out there'. Never cared  for BMW or Merc.. looks too generic to me.

[charger Downunder]

G-man.. Where do you live? America?

He lives in Australia, and as a disclaimer can I just say aussie Mopar guys are NOT like this, vast majority of us would sell our left nut before letting go of our beloved Chargers... and we don't sit around discussing euro cars and magical horsepower numbers like 10 year olds... it's getting farking embarrassing.

Oh and everyone drives stick shift 

How true for us aussie guys well said.

[440]

Try posting on a Ferrari forum and see the responses you get G-man ?

It's not just Ferrari owners are passionate about their cars. The Charger circle is a lot like the Ferrari circle in many ways.  

I was never into the whole 'heritage' thing. I only get a  car based on

A: Does it look the way I want it to
B: Does it go hard when the foots planted (go as good as it looks)
C: Fun/comfortable to drive

A Charger is probably not your goal then, it's not just a car - it's a passion, history, connection and a love for caring for them. These types of cars have quirks which make them unique, require respect and also some work from time to time. A Charger is not the type of car you just get in and drive and drive and drive.  

Funnily enough exotic cars require special care and expensive maintenance as well.

G-man.. Where do you live? America?

He lives in Australia, and as a disclaimer can I just say aussie Mopar guys are NOT like this, vast majority of us would sell our left nut before letting go of our beloved Chargers... and we don't sit around discussing euro cars and magical horsepower numbers like 10 year olds... it's getting farking embarrassing.

Oh and everyone drives stick shift  

How true for us aussie guys well said.

Aussies also tend to drive 4 door sedans and wagons.  

[G-man]

Thanks 440.

I have done that and they said not to sell the charger for an exotic if 'numbers' is what im after. Better of getting a race car and keeping the charger.  Thats why this whole post started.

O and I dont like at all (infact it irritates me to no end) to have to STUFF AROUND with little pieces of #$#(@*& not working and trying to work out how to make it work and I just hate that crap. Also there is no special dodge service centre here so the only person that can do it right is myself, n I dont wanna be stuffed with working on cars.

While exotic, sure it aint cheap... but, theres a specialist service centre that I just take it to, leave it there, come back when its done, pay and leave.

I love driving a nice/hot/fast car. I HATE working on cars and wont work on them. Its just a chor to me not something I enjoy at all. Its like washing dishes... as if thats enjoyable. I got better things to do with my time then be stuck in a garage with the shit smell of car and oil and whatever else trying to work out what the hell to turn or fix or make 'right'.

So ur probbably right from that angle, a muscle car isnt for me.

[Marck]

Thanks 440.

I have done that and they said not to sell the charger for an exotic if 'numbers' is what im after. Better of getting a race car and keeping the charger.  Thats why this whole post started.

O and I dont like at all (infact it irritates me to no end) to have to STUFF AROUND with little pieces of #$#(@*& not working and trying to work out how to make it work and I just hate that crap. Also there is no special dodge service centre here so the only person that can do it right is myself, n I dont wanna be stuffed with working on cars.

While exotic, sure it aint cheap... but, theres a specialist service centre that I just take it to, leave it there, come back when its done, pay and leave.

I love driving a nice/hot/fast car. I HATE working on cars and wont work on them. Its just a chor to me not something I enjoy at all. Its like washing dishes... as if thats enjoyable. I got better things to do with my time then be stuck in a garage with the shit smell of car and oil and whatever else trying to work out what the hell to turn or fix or make 'right'.

So ur probbably right from that angle, a muscle car isnt for me.

I'm not trying to burst your bubble, but a Ferrari, probably at least 10 years old will most likely require a bit of upkeep.. If you have the means to just haul it off to a shop whenever it breaks down then by all means do that..

I'm having serious trouble following your chain of thoughts, to me you don't come across as a classic car guy at all.. Classic car guys accept the fact that the car will break down from time to time.. In my honest opinion you should sell your chargers to someone that will appreciate them for what they are..

Have you considered bying a an old charger shell on a new charger chassis?

[Vainglory, Esq.]

I don't see what the big deal is.  Guy likes Chargers but really wants to get the full racing experience.  Is that so bad?


G-man, I think you should consider keeping your Charger knowing full well what it is (and what it isn't), and hire out race cars on sunny weekends.  If you really get bitten by the racing bug, you should check into whatever sports car association Australia has that's comparable to the SCCA here in America.  You can get your hands on a nice, purpose-built spec racer for not a lot of money, and that should get you plenty of seat time going triple digits with your hair on fire.  Then on Sunday you can take the Charger cruising.

Again, I don't really see what's unreasonable about talking about this kind of thing...

[rooks]

O and I dont like at all (infact it irritates me to no end) to have to STUFF AROUND with little pieces of #$#(@*& not working and trying to work out how to make it work and I just hate that crap. Also there is no special dodge service centre here so the only person that can do it right is myself, n I dont wanna be stuffed with working on cars.

While exotic, sure it aint cheap... but, theres a specialist service centre that I just take it to, leave it there, come back when its done, pay and leave.

I love driving a nice/hot/fast car. I HATE working on cars and wont work on them. Its just a chor to me not something I enjoy at all. Its like washing dishes... as if thats enjoyable. I got better things to do with my time then be stuck in a garage with the shit smell of car and oil and whatever else trying to work out what the hell to turn or fix or make 'right'.

That's a crock of shit.

Having a Dodge Charger in Australia doesn't limit the number of people that have the knowledge & ability to work on your car. Far from it. Every car has it's own uniqueness - whether it be a Dodge Charger or a Toyota Camry - but any reputable mechanic in the world will be able to work on your car. A ball-joint is still a ball-joint. Doesn't matter what car it's on. And the fact that it is an older car built around mechanics, and not computers, means you'll have a much easier time finding someone that can work on it. You don't need a specialist. The only downside is that you'll occasionally have to wait for parts to come form the US, but if you think a mechanic that has spent his life working on HQ's, Torana's, Falcon's & local Chrysler's & Valiant's (many of which actually share parts with their US cousins and are readily available locally) doesn't have what it takes to fix your car - well, the fact that you think that way really shines a light on your posts of late. You don't seem to have a grasp on the auto world - be it Muscle Cars, Exotics or Race cars - beyond how they look in magazines and in videos.

I took my Challenger to get a wheel alignment last Monday at a local PitStop Tyre & Auto up the road. Nothing fancy. Just your average everyday soccer-moms mechanic that does tyre changes, services, and while-you-wait rego checks. Turns out the head mechanic is good mates with one of the guys that works @ Elko, and another bloke there use to drag Aussie Mopars back in the 90's with his brother and has built a bunch of Chargers, VG's etc with their old man. The bloke went over my Challenger from top to bottom, new more than I did about it - pointing out what I should keep an eye on and general problem areas etc - and in 30 minutes taught me more about my own car than I'd learnt in the 7 months owning the damn thing.

If you took the time to actually take part in the local Mopar community, you'd see how fantastic the people really are. Looking at the local forums and you've got guys doing interstate road-trips, picking up cars & parts for each other along the way. An endless supply of knowledge and willingness to help - exactly as it is on this forum.

Why you think switching from a Muscle Car to an exotic or any other type would alleviate the headaches one can encounter is beyond me. Cars are cars. They all have their own unique set of issues, none less a pain in the arse than the other - and all can cost stupid amounts of $$$$.



Now, I need to go back a bit. Did I read this right ... you can't drive a manual? Is that fairdinkum or was someone just takin' the piss?

You own 2 Chargers & a Challenger, want to own a Ferrari, Lambo or maybe even an F1 race-car to race on weekends - want them all performing and handling like the ducks nuts - and you can't even drive a normal car properly?

Cart before the horse much?




Your blue Charger is OK right? Drives fine? If not, make it so, then all I can say is: drive the heck out of it. You say that after 12 months you'll be able to afford the Exotic if you decide to go that route, so until then, just drive the Charger. Not to car shows or race events. Not that once a month special occasion if the weather is fine horse-shit. Daily. Drive it to work. Drive it to get groceries or pick up the kids from school. In the rain. Drive it down to you local shopping centre, buy yourself Eric Bana's Love the Beast DVD; drive home, watch it; then go for a drive again. Learn what it is to be a car guy. Doesn't matter if you can't strip down and rebuild an engine in a day, or recite obscure part numbers off the top of your head. Enjoy your car, become a car guy - someone that just loves cars and loves driving them - then make your decision. Until then, you'll never know what kind of car guy you really are, and you'll be all over the place never able to settle on anything.

[472 R/T SE]

Curious here George.  You have 2 Chargers & a Challenger correct? 

How many miles have you actually driven these cars combined?

[kab69440]

He's never driven any of them a single mile.  Isn't everything in Australia delineated by the kilometer?

[Richard Cranium]

Trust me, sports cars aren't all they're cracked up to be. Having bought a '97 Viper GTS & 2006 Ford GT, I went through my mid-life sports car phase and  got it out of my system. I found that many Viper owners were former Vette guys and many GT owners are either Ferrari owners or those who aspire to own one. Ferrari owners are a different class & breed of people and most here wouldn't fit into that world. Joe Average they aren't. Try going onto a Ferrari website with a screen name and avatar like mine and see where that gets you.  

[Patronus]

My favorite part is he apparently cannot drive a manual   
So basically this thread is useless

[G-man]

My favorite part is he apparently cannot drive a manual   
So basically this thread is useless

Can - Just dont.

Nvm the thread. I figured out what I want and its exotic. and its not for the sake of racing either as many said... to race something like that id need to be prepaired for $$$$$$$ of maintenence. Id simply love to drive it and thats it. Feels race like and looks like its going 200 standing still.

Now let this pointless thread die.