Rocker Arms

[68-440]

I was on the summit website and looked at various rockers which have been recommended on this site. 
When I look at the Crane adjustable ductile iron rockers, shafts, etc. the cost is approaching the cost of Harland Sharp and Comp Cams Pro Magnum rollers.

COMP Cams 1621-16 - COMP Cams Pro Magnum Shaft Mount Roller Rocker Arms: SET = $680
Harland Sharp S70015K - Harland Sharp Shaft Mount Roller Rockers: SET = $640

Assuming that I have identified the correct Rocker Sets for a 440+ engine with Edelbrock Performer RPM Heads 60929.
Please provide your opinions on the advantages and dis-advantages of the aluminum Harland Sharp versus the steel COMP Cams Pro Magnum; or the Crane adjustable ductile iron rockers.

http://www.summitracing.com/search/make/DODGE/engine-size/7-2L-440/engine-family/Mopar-big-block-RB/?keyword=rocker%20arms&dds=1

Thank you

[Cooter]

I like the ductile Iron rockers cause they are reliable..Roller stuff always offers the possibility of the needle bearings coming apart and going through your engine...Howver, the aluminum rockers offer less weight in the Valvetrian and that's worth something, along with the reduced friction of roller stuff....


Just remember, even the factory Mostly, uses STEEL rockers when talking roller for longevity...

[frederick]

Have you checked the RAS rockers, I believe they're about the same price.

http://www.rockerarms.com/rockerarms.com/Performance/Performance.html

[Nacho-RT74]

I got these LOOONG time ago, adjustable on stock round/round pushrods ends, no needle bearings, actually bronze bushing

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PRW-Stud-Mount-Stainless-Roller-Rockers-Mopar-383-440-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem33664e3359QQitemZ220759733081QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

I HOPE they will be good

[Musicman]

Crane does not use needle bearings with their shaft mounted rockers. I have a set of the Aluminums laying around for a 383 build I'm going to do later.

I went for a kit from Hughes Engines in my 6-Pack... As far as the Higher End stuff goes, I felt they were better quality for less money... just my opinion
http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/products.php?browse=category&level0=QmlnIEJsb2NrICA0MTMtNDI2LTQ0MCAoUmFpc2VkIERlY2sp&level1=Um9ja2VyIEFybXMgJiBBY2Nlc3Nvcmllcw==&searchmode=partnumber&page=1

[BSB67]

Hard to imaging that you could go wrong with either of those choices.

First, the Ultra Pro Magnum (1621-16) is a bushed rocker body with a roller tip, verses the HS - a true roller rocker.

HS: 1) the ratio will be more like 1.55:1, 2) the roller tip will sweep on the outside half of the valve stem tip. (i.e. the distance from the shaft centerline to the roller tip is a little long on the HS when used on the Eddys), 3) They do not directly oil the roller tip. 4) They have great customer service

Magnum: 1) they are 1.5:1, 2) The oiling to the PR and valve tip is a bit more positive, 3) you'll need to buy ball, ball push rods, 4) they center very well on the valve on Eddys.

These are pretty minute items and will not make any difference IMO.  They are both very good products. 

[b5blue]

On the Crane iron rockers notice the "estimated ship date" for 1.5 ratio....it's been that way for over a year, there not available and I think it will be a looooong while (if ever) you will wait. Now if you want 1.6 ratio PM me as I have a "brand new in the box" set of them, never used, just removed from the box for a very close inspection that I'll sell for 325.00 shipped in USA.   

[firefighter3931]

Hard to imaging that you could go wrong with either of those choices.

First, the Ultra Pro Magnum (1621-16) is a bushed rocker body with a roller tip, verses the HS - a true roller rocker.

HS: 1) the ratio will be more like 1.55:1, 2) the roller tip will sweep on the outside half of the valve stem tip. (i.e. the distance from the shaft centerline to the roller tip is a little long on the HS when used on the Eddys), 3) They do not directly oil the roller tip. 4) They have great customer service

Magnum: 1) they are 1.5:1, 2) The oiling to the PR and valve tip is a bit more positive, 3) you'll need to buy ball, ball push rods, 4) they center very well on the valve on Eddys.

These are pretty minute items and will not make any difference IMO.  They are both very good products. 

That's an accurate description of the fit and features for the pro-magnum & Harland Sharp rockers as they pertain to the Edelbrock head.  The Harland Sharps have a better sweep pattern on an Indy head vs the Eddy Rpm casting, fwiw. That's not to say that the HS rockers won't work with an Eddy RPM because they will (I ran them) but it won't be "perfect"....but certainly acceptable. 

For most applications you don't need a roller with valve lifts less than .600 so don't overspend if you don't have to. I've seen numerous sets of used Crane ductile iron/Isky rockers for sale on e-bay and other classifieds for less than $200...start looking   

Unless you're running a solid roller cam with over 500lbs spring pressure the ductile rockers will suit your needs just fine. 


Ron

[b5blue]

And there's adjustable push rods......

[68-440]

Thank you for the replies.
It appears that the 3 options I identified have their +'s and -'s.  I think that the consensus is leaning towards the Crane ductile iron, but if purchased new from Summit, they also run over $600.  I will look into "not new" but unsure of the risk associated with their condition.  I am looking at 1.5 ratio, so thank you b5blue for your offer.

Based on the descriptions provided above for Comp vs Harland Sharp, if I were to choose one of them, I am still a little lost on which would be the better choice. 
An opinion would be welcome.

Note:  The cam being considered is the Comp XS290S on a 505 stroker.

[firefighter3931]

Thank you for the replies.
It appears that the 3 options I identified have their +'s and -'s.  I think that the consensus is leaning towards the Crane ductile iron, but if purchased new from Summit, they also run over $600.  I will look into "not new" but unsure of the risk associated with their condition.  I am looking at 1.5 ratio, so thank you b5blue for your offer.

Based on the descriptions provided above for Comp vs Harland Sharp, if I were to choose one of them, I am still a little lost on which would be the better choice. 
An opinion would be welcome.

Note:  The cam being considered is the Comp XS290S on a 505 stroker.

For that cam the Comp pro-magnums are fine or even a set of used ductile iron's will work. If you were considering a solid roller then the HS fully rollerized rockers would be the obvious choice 


Ron

[68-440]

For that cam the Comp pro-magnums are fine or even a set of used ductile iron's will work. If you were considering a solid roller then the HS fully rollerized rockers would be the obvious choice 

Ron, just a dumb question:  Being that the HS are cheaper than the Comp pro-magnums, why are the HS not the obvious choice for Non-Rollerized rockers.  There seems to be something that I don't understand.  I am guessing that HS may be over-kill but they are cheaper.  Is there something that makes HS less desireable, other than the roller tip sweep? 

I may be a little dense, but I think that ductile iron should be my first choice (if I interpret the above correctly).  But if others are better, I would  like to consider them.  Is there a concern that the bearings in the HS or Comp may or are expected to come apart?

[firefighter3931]

For that cam the Comp pro-magnums are fine or even a set of used ductile iron's will work. If you were considering a solid roller then the HS fully rollerized rockers would be the obvious choice 

Ron, just a dumb question:  Being that the HS are cheaper than the Comp pro-magnums, why are the HS not the obvious choice for Non-Rollerized rockers.  There seems to be something that I don't understand.  I am guessing that HS may be over-kill but they are cheaper.  Is there something that makes HS less desireable, other than the roller tip sweep? 

I may be a little dense, but I think that ductile iron should be my first choice (if I interpret the above correctly).  But if others are better, I would  like to consider them.  Is there a concern that the bearings in the HS or Comp may or are expected to come apart?

The HS rockers are fully rollerized, both on the fulcrum and tip. I ran those on a set of RPM heads with a solid flat tappet cam with no issues but if i were to use a roller cam i would have wanted better geometry. For your use the HS rockers are fine.

The pro-magnums used to be a lot cheaper and did fit slightly better but they're not really designed for high spring pressures over 400 lbs....so definately not the hot ticket with solid roller cams. 



Ron

[Challenger340]

If using the Harland Sharp Rockers on the Eddy Heads, some correction to the Geometry can be had by;

1.) Cut a REAL Valve Job & Radius over the poor ootb crap
and
2.) using Lash Caps

Most times, your Machinist will be dis-assembling the Heads anyways for inspection prior to use ? Changing Springs or Hardware ?

Applying the above while apart usually gains us about .100" extra valve Tip Ht., helping the poor geometry, with INCREASED Flow even after sinking the Valves a bit,
and, reduced Valve Guide wear over time.

Downside; you WILL need slightly shorter Pushrods, but, if it's a new build you should be making up, or ordering, the correct length Pushrods anyways ?

[firefighter3931]

If using the Harland Sharp Rockers on the Eddy Heads, some correction to the Geometry can be had by;

1.) Cut a REAL Valve Job & Radius over the poor ootb crap
and
2.) using Lash Caps

Most times, your Machinist will be dis-assembling the Heads anyways for inspection prior to use ? Changing Springs or Hardware ?

Applying the above while apart usually gains us about .100" extra valve Tip Ht., helping the poor geometry, with INCREASED Flow even after sinking the Valves a bit,
and, reduced Valve Guide wear over time.

Downside; you WILL need slightly shorter Pushrods, but, if it's a new build you should be making up, or ordering, the correct length Pushrods anyways ?

Very good advice....thanks Bob   


Ron

[john108]

I have followed this thread and would like to ask an additional question/observation:
It appears that the Harland Sharp unit is a higher end product but isn't best for the Edelbrock Performer heads.
It also appears that the COMP Cams Pro Magnum would be a good choice with the Comp XS290S cam (spring pressure with 1.5 ratio???).
I thought that I read that the Crane adjustable ductile iron rocker tolerances are loose and results in variations in lift, etc.
Other rockers were identified here but like 68-440, I am also at a loss when trying to select rockers.

[BSB67]

I have followed this thread and would like to ask an additional question/observation:
It appears that the Harland Sharp unit is a higher end product but isn't best for the Edelbrock Performer heads.
It also appears that the COMP Cams Pro Magnum would be a good choice with the Comp XS290S cam (spring pressure with 1.5 ratio???).
I thought that I read that the Crane adjustable ductile iron rocker tolerances are loose and results in variations in lift, etc.
Other rockers were identified here but like 68-440, I am also at a loss when trying to select rockers.

I don't know if the HS are a higher end product.  Maybe.  The non-bushed version of the Pro Magnum would gall with higher VS pressures.  Guys are running the bushed version with solid rollers and 250/600 springs on the street.  However, they don't have the many years in service to prove their durability like the HS.

I'm not sure what you are saying about the ductile iron Cranes.  Are you saying that the quality control is poor and have inconsistant rocker ratios , or the tolerances are loose and have a fitment problem.  The Cranes that I have are a good product, but they are over 20 years old and might not repersent today's new product.

I would stay away from non-brand names that are relatively inexpensive and are fully rollerized.

[68-440]

I was reading the post (in the Performance section):
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,80393.0.html
and it seems that the Hughes roller rockers are recommended by posting members.
Their website makes the sound real good.
http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/products.php?browse=category&level0=QmlnIEJsb2NrICA0MTMtNDI2LTQ0MCAoUmFpc2VkIERlY2sp&level1=Um9ja2VyIEFybXMgJiBBY2Nlc3Nvcmllcw==&partid=24530

What is the overall opinion of these rockers?