383 4bbl 4spd vs 440 auto

[DeanP]

Hi guys,
Looking to buy a 68/69 Charger and was wondering what the performance difference was between a stock 383 4bbl 330hp 4spd versus a stock 440 magnum automatic, both with 3.23 gears?  What I mean by performance is the 1/4 mile performance from start to finish.  I'm figuring the 440 will have a bigger jump off the line, but wasn't sure the rest of the way.  Would the 440 still pull away or if the 383 will catch up?  Not interested in doing any mods, I'm more of a stock guy.  So, just curious of the head to head matchup between these two.

[tan top]

    think it would be close  stock Vs stock  specialy if the R/T had  air

[bakerhillpins]

1/4 mile times for those cars have to be buried in some old car mags somewhere, Just a question of where. I would have figured the auto would be faster overall.

[Hudson Hornet !]

I have been fortunate enough to test two chargers with the drivetrains you mentioned, and yes they are close.  Many people will extol the virtues of the 440 and they have every right as 440's are excellent engines. However, do not misjudge the 383. I feel that is is one of those engines that is " just right". It is willing to rev, rev, rev, and bottom end performance is also very good. A well tuned 383 will surprise you with the performance you will get. Either way, you will have a mopar, and that sure as hell beats the ricer crowd anyday!

[kab69440]

I personally would buy a 318/4 gear over a Hemi car with an auto. But I've been accused of being a bit strange....

[green69rt]

I just had to add my two cents on this since I'm an old time hot rodder.  For a street car with no mods the 440 gives you bragging rights and maybe a 0.1 second or so at the strip.  The 440 has more HP but adds a few pounds of weight.  Everything else depends on final drive ratio, tires, weight distribution, driver skill.......  Now for those of us looking for max HP there's nothing like cubes.  While both engines are fairly well suited to stroking the 440 starts with a bigger block and stays ahead.  My take on a nice street car, if you have a good 383 then spend a few bucks to wring a few more HP out of it rather than a LOT of bucks to convert to the 440 (it's more than you think), then if that's not enough or when you blow up the 383 then go for the RB engine.  Ok my  

[charge69]

I drove both when they were new. A 1968 383 4bbl 4 spd car with less than 2K on it and a brand new 1969R/T 440 auto as my friend back then had them both. The 383 4spd car was fun to drive but the 440 auto was definitely faster. It was a slick-body orange 1968 regular Charger vs. a B5 blue w/white interior, white top, and white R/T stripe 1969 he had bought on the spur of the moment. Traded in the 1968 right then. I was mad that he did not give me a shot at the 1968 but I know how salemen can be when you are right there.

HE went back to Vietnam (both of us USMC and E5's) and took the car to San Antonio for his parents to keep while he was gone. This was at a little base just outside of KCMO and it was preparing to shut down in 1970 and we knew about it early. Do not know whatever actually happened to him or the car after that.

Anyway, the 440 auto was wicked-fast off the  line but we , or he , never drag raced it to my knowledge.

[Blakcharger440]

I think that with the 383 4speed and the right guy driving it that it would definitely give the 440 auto Charger a good run for the money. I forgot how much torque and HP is lost through the auto but it is not as efficient as the 833...maybe 10 to 15% power loss as I can recall.

A 383 4spd stripped Charger would also likely weigh less as well.

[charge69]

They might give it a good run and 4spd's are definitely more fun but ..... An auto-shifted car will be faster than a 4spd car in the quarter mile almost every time. Too many things to get just right for the 4spd driver. The really good 4spd drivers are far and few between and I ain't one of them. I'll take the auto for the win almost every time.

And to the 4spd guys out there .... no offense intended ..... my experience tells me to race an auto and cruise a 4spd if i can. Unfortunately, I have to cruise an auto as that is what I have and , frankly , in the traffic around here , I am happy to do so.

[BSB67]

Although there are a lot of opportunities to make mistakes driving a 4 speed, when driven correctly, will always be faster than an auto in stockish trim.   Usually .1 to .2 and 1 to 2 mph quicker/faster.   Also, in general, the auto 440 b body will be .3 to .5 faster than the 4 speed 383 b body similarly equipped.   A lot of variables, and driver skill can erase any difference, or go the other way.   With that said, I personally would take the 4 speed as the fun factor is worth the performance difference.

[charge69]

Generally, I agree with you but, "when driven correctly" is the key and you might drive it correctly this time but it just ain't gonna happen ALL the time. Even the best screw up a shift now and then and lose with the "faster" car.

Actually, getting one off the line correctly, 4spd or auto, determines the winner in most races. I have seen many races lost by the faster car. Personally, I'll take the auto. YMMV

[John_Kunkel]

It's not really fair to factor in the driver, the OP was about the relative difference in performance of the CARS. My memories of "back in the day" had the 383 cars in the high 14's and the 440 cars in the low 14's.

[charge69]

Mr. Kunkel,

You and I are both old enough to remember a lot more things than most of these people and my opinion is it is fair to factor in a real world driving experience. Magazine times were about right for most people in the autos but, do you really think most people can drive a 4spd Charger as good as a professional test driver for a magazine?  My opinion is they cannot with any regularity as they just do not get the practice time in their car, whatever it is. That is especially true now as these cars are rarely, if ever, raced anymore. Blowing one up by missing a shift would not be my favorite thing to do  either.

I returned from a 19 month tour in Vietnam in May, 1968 (USMC) and rode in and drove these cars regularly back then as you probably did. I believe 4spd cars are definitely more fun, especially if you are young and in a more rural setting than me. I just am getting a little lazy in my old age, I guess and will take the 727 for me and that is just for me. YMMV

You are certainly entitled to yours and I respect that. No offense meant or taken.

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

Heres a link to an old Motor Trend test article comparing a Charger R/T to a GTX, a Cobra, GS 400 etc

Have it at 13.9 in the quarter...440 Auto


http://www.1969chargerregistry.com/gallery/roadtest

[DeanP]

Thanks guys so far for all the great feedback!!  I definitely cannot lose with either drivetrain... after all the bottom line is it's a Charger 

[XS29J8]

It's not really fair to factor in the driver, the OP was about the relative difference in performance of the CARS. My memories of "back in the day" had the 383 cars in the high 14's and the 440 cars in the low 14's.

At last some sense to this thread, you can't compare a STOCK 440 MAGNUM to a STOCK 383 in any sense of performance, They just don't compare    ..........My STOCK 440 AT 68 Charger would pull away from a 383 car in any situation and leave it so far behind it was not funny. I was on the hunt for 454 Chevelles and 428 Stangs not other MOPARS I'd call a full second in street time difference between the 440 and the 383............. 

Steve

[69fuchs]

It's not really fair to factor in the driver, the OP was about the relative difference in performance of the CARS. My memories of "back in the day" had the 383 cars in the high 14's and the 440 cars in the low 14's.

At last some sense to this thread, you can't compare a STOCK 440 MAGNUM to a STOCK 383 in any sense of performance, They just don't compare    ..........My STOCK 440 AT 68 Charger would pull away from a 383 car in any situation and leave it so far behind it was not funny. I was on the hunt for 454 Chevelles and 428 Stangs not other MOPARS I'd call a full second in street time difference between the 440 and the 383............. 

Steve

I couldn't agree more.  383's are no slouch, but 440's are faster in stock trim. 

High 14's for a stock 4 speed 383 (335 hp superbee or road runner engine only).....there is a difference in camshaft profile.

Mid to low 14's with an automatic, sometimes even high 13's with a 440 4 speed.

Mph will almost always be better with the stick shift though. (less parasitic hp loss)

[John_Kunkel]

Mr. Kunkel,

You and I are both old enough to remember a lot more things than most of these people and my opinion is it is fair to factor in a real world driving experience.

If by "real world" you mean comparing ham-fisted drivers to capable drivers I still disagree. I've seen many mishandled cars that were capable of low 14's running in the 15's and I'm sure you have too. The OP is about the relative performance of the cars, not the drivers.

[DeanP]

If by "real world" you mean comparing ham-fisted drivers to capable drivers I still disagree. I've seen many mishandled cars that were capable of low 14's running in the 15's and I'm sure you have too. The OP is about the relative performance of the cars, not the drivers.

I'm definitely less interested in the driver's ability to drive the car, this would obviously be either an advantage or handicap in the final results.  Every driver is different, which could have a big impact on ETs.  I'm a lot more interested the car's ultimate performance if both cars were driven to their peak potential.

[Scaregrabber]

A good driver is less of a factor with an automatic than a four speed. In the early 70's I've seen a friend of mine take down some big prey with a 383, 4 speed Road Runner.
A Charger is a heavy car and will feel the advantage of the extra inches of the 440 and the automatic. I think with competent drivers in both that the 440 auto car would have a half second advantage over the 383 4 speed.
In a lighter Road Runner the difference would be closer like maybe 2 or 3 tenths.

Sheldon

[green69rt]

Hi guys,
Looking to buy a 68/69 Charger and was wondering what the performance difference was between a stock 383 4bbl 330hp 4spd versus a stock 440 magnum automatic, both with 3.23 gears?  What I mean by performance is the 1/4 mile performance from start to finish.  I'm figuring the 440 will have a bigger jump off the line, but wasn't sure the rest of the way.  Would the 440 still pull away or if the 383 will catch up?  Not interested in doing any mods, I'm more of a stock guy.  So, just curious of the head to head matchup between these two.

I'm back and I've been watching the thread.  This is the same discussion that has been going on since 1968 (or earlier!!!)  So a final question....  what do YOU want!!  both cars will be fun to drive on the street.  Maybe the 4 speed will be more fun (matter of opinion) or do you want an automatic.  I would take either car, both are fun and both are good old muscle cars.   Both have potential, both have pros and cons.  For a street car, both are very desirable.  Now, what do you think??

[DeanP]

Hi guys,
Looking to buy a 68/69 Charger and was wondering what the performance difference was between a stock 383 4bbl 330hp 4spd versus a stock 440 magnum automatic, both with 3.23 gears?  What I mean by performance is the 1/4 mile performance from start to finish.  I'm figuring the 440 will have a bigger jump off the line, but wasn't sure the rest of the way.  Would the 440 still pull away or if the 383 will catch up?  Not interested in doing any mods, I'm more of a stock guy.  So, just curious of the head to head matchup between these two.

I'm back and I've been watching the thread.  This is the same discussion that has been going on since 1968 (or earlier!!!)  So a final question....  what do YOU want!!  both cars will be fun to drive on the street.  Maybe the 4 speed will be more fun (matter of opinion) or do you want an automatic.  I would take either car, both are fun and both are good old muscle cars.   Both have potential, both have pros and cons.  For a street car, both are very desirable.  Now, what do you think??

I'd be very happy with either one!!!!  I was just curious about the performance diff between these two specific drivetrains.  As far as this being the same discussion since 1968 (or earlier), I sure didn't see this as a previous thread when I did my search before starting this one.  I do have one road test article that has the '68 440 auto do 0-60 in 6.5 sec and the 1/4 mile at 14.8 secs/95.7 mph.  So, I guess all I really need now is the 383 4bbl 4spd times.

[69charger2002]

in my experience the 440/auto will be .5-1 second faster than a 383 4 speed, all things equal. 383 4 speeds are fun cars, but 440's just go faster stock. period

[green69rt]

Hi guys,
Looking to buy a 68/69 Charger and was wondering what the performance difference was between a stock 383 4bbl 330hp 4spd versus a stock 440 magnum automatic, both with 3.23 gears?  What I mean by performance is the 1/4 mile performance from start to finish.  I'm figuring the 440 will have a bigger jump off the line, but wasn't sure the rest of the way.  Would the 440 still pull away or if the 383 will catch up?  Not interested in doing any mods, I'm more of a stock guy.  So, just curious of the head to head matchup between these two.

I'm back and I've been watching the thread.  This is the same discussion that has been going on since 1968 (or earlier!!!)  So a final question....  what do YOU want!!  both cars will be fun to drive on the street.  Maybe the 4 speed will be more fun (matter of opinion) or do you want an automatic.  I would take either car, both are fun and both are good old muscle cars.   Both have potential, both have pros and cons.  For a street car, both are very desirable.  Now, what do you think??

I'd be very happy with either one!!!!  I was just curious about the performance diff between these two specific drivetrains.  As far as this being the same discussion since 1968 (or earlier), I sure didn't see this as a previous thread when I did my search before starting this one.  I do have one road test article that has the '68 440 auto do 0-60 in 6.5 sec and the 1/4 mile at 14.8 secs/95.7 mph.  So, I guess all I really need now is the 383 4bbl 4spd times.

So buy the one you want!!  Have a little fun and learn about muslce cars in the process.  You can get a lot of opinions from us on various performence points but the bottom line is how much fun you have with the car you buy.  You can see with the various threads on this site that there are a lot of different cars and a lot of different owners.  Now back to your original question, yes the 440 is faster.  Are you willing to pay the difference( is there one??) Do you want a stick.. or an automatic?   Let us know what your thoughts are.  Welcome to the world of MOPAR!!