For everyone to read

[mikesbbody]

OK...I wasn't gonna get Angry but some of the comments about Magnum PI  he was my Boyhood Hero! kicking Ass and getting the ladies! Magnum P.I was a Icon of the 80's! Tom Selleck a.k.a. "Magnum" (now 66, no Moustache) John Hillerman a.k.a "Higgens" (now 78) Roger E Mosley a.k.a "TC" (now 72) and Larry Manetti a.k.a "Rick" (now 63) They were all "Cool Guy's" to me (well maybe not Rick...) John Hillerman's British accent fooled me, and my Father (who's British)
But...that was then this is now I grew up, learned that Car's like Ferrari's were driven by Rich Guy's most of them never held a Wrench in their life. I got interested in "Real" Cars American Muscle
The Best of the Best...Mopars! 850 H.P is not the same across the board it's WAY Cooler in Mopar
Muscle I don't even look at these so called "Exotics" but everyone has Their opinions as said so many times "It's your car do what you want" if you want to sell a Diamond and buy a Turd that's your decision but not more Magnum P.I Bashing!!! don't make me start a FaceBook Page...

[rooks]

Magnum P.I. is a damn legend! Nuff said!



George - shame you feel that way mate but I gotta say, with what you seem to be wanting out of a car - don't think that a simple marquee switch will solve anything. Any vehicle will require a shit-load of work to get it to wear you say you want it. You'll still be spending bucket-loads - just for different things - and you'll have trouble selling any car that's been modified beyond stock. Muscle or exotic - the people willing to buy these things treat them the same. They believe they're classics, and should basically be left as such.

So the Ferrari handles better in stock trim than the Charger. A little less work is required on that front. Upkeep is still going to bite you in the arse. Expect to pay 2-3 times the cost for parts & services - and everything will have to be special ordered. Quality workmanship & those familiar with a Ferrari will be very limited. As mentioned - if you buy it cheap, it's because it's been neglected. One in great condition will have been well maintained, and it will cost you money to keep it that way - if you're going to be driving it as you say you are, you'll be forever repairing battle damage, resprays, engine rebuilds etc. When you lose control that tree/barrier/other vehicle you hit won't care if it's an exotic or not.



... and I gotta ask. Where the bloody hell will you be driving it that an 850hp Charger won't be good enough?

Targa Tasmania is the only non-professional motor-sport event in Oz worth spit that you'd seriously consider winning a true achievement. Unless you want to spend your weekends "competing" against VL Commodores & Clubsports.

Targa Tasmania is actually on right now. It's 4 days in to it's schedule. To give you some perspective - in the Classics class there are 2 Ferrari 308's - a 1976 GTB & a 1977 GT4 Dino.

Over the past 4 days the '76 is in 30th place and the '77 is 48th - now beating these 2 cars are: a 1948 Holden FX (6 cylinder), 1977 Holden Torana, two Dato 240Z's, a '65 Mustang, a '71 Ford Falcon, '61 Volvo 122S and a '61 Volvo PV544, a couple RX7's, a Triumph, a '63 Jensen, a few other odds & ends and over a dozen varying Porsche's.


Forget the balls out best handling 850 HP vehicle money can buy idea. It's stupid. Figure out where you're going to race it. You can't take it around the world - you've got a business to run. Where will you drive it? What events? Can you even drive? Got a CAMS licence? Go for a test drive in a V8 Supercar to see if you got the stomach to even handle those speeds & turns.

Jumping from one marquee to the next won't save you money, it won't save you time, and it won't guarantee a better/faster car - all it will do is make a different group of people think you're cool, and a different group of people think you're a douche. Nothing more, nothing less.


If you love the Charger - build it, but build it to a purpose - don't just throw money at it and crank everything to 10.

[G-man]

Thanks for all your replies.

Guess what I wasnt saying is... Im definatelly not throwing money at a 308. What I was saying is, the way I am, I dont like to 'change' stuff thats on a car. I dont like modifying stuff.

So if a car doesnt handle, i probbably wont modify it to handle, so buying something that does handle, since i wont change it is ok cause it 'does handle' stock and thats good enough. I m also not gettign the 308 because its some how going to outperform who knows what, Im getting it cause its a step in the exotic world before the serious cars which cost 300 000+ come along which i definately cant afford... so even a standard 308 which doesnt perform all that great is good as its a step in the right direction as to what im heading towards (A diablo)

I do love the charger, so the "not a real muscle" comment was not needed. I do love the way the 68 Charger looks and no car on the planet is ever gonna look as tough as that. However, it wont do in stock form what I want a car to do. At the same time, I never thought a lambo etc would ever be something possible. Considering its starting to look like something that is achievable...  it was my childhood dream to own a lambo.

My most favourite/used matchbox car when i was between 5-10 was a White Countache. Then my grandparents (who are no longer alive) baught me a black good sized model sort of car that had some sort of rotor thing in the wheels that as u pushed it few times the wheels would speed up then ud let car go and it would drive... that was a black Diablo.

On the commodore 64 computer the game "Test Drive" my brothers always picked the Lotus Esprite Turbo and the Ferrari Testarossa, I always picked the Countache. Its not something new/un thought of. Even if I never race the lamborghini, never add more power (600hp is enough anyway hat it comes with) just to be driving that, and having the road feel and manners of a car like that... is great. I always loved the doors opening upwards. So In general id just like to own that car.

And yes Brock its the 308 GTSi, 1982.

I wouldnt want to ruin a charger by cutting it to pieces to get what I want under it to perform how id like it to. Its too much of a good car to modify especially the blue one I got of allen, everything in it is original including all the body panels, trunk floor etc. How could I chop that up? Rather give it to someone that will leave it original and il go buy what will do what I want without having to change anything... I have also always loved cars that were quite low (in terms of where the roof is)


So once again, thanks.

[bobs66440]

My most favourite/used matchbox car when i was between 5-10 was a White Countache. 

I remember the first time I saw one in person. It was at the New York Auto Show around 1978. What a stunning car to be sure. Love it or hate it...you won't forget it. Good luck in your quest...I wouldn't mind one in my garage! 

[Mike DC]

G-man, have you ever thought about buying/commissioning one of these conversions where they take the upper half of an old Charger unibody and mate it with the lower half of a modern 4dr Charger's chassis?  That kind of conversion sounds a lot like what you're seeking to me.  

You end up with mostly the modern car in terms of performance, quality control, maintinence, etc.   The people doing conversions don't typically chop up good condition vintage Chargers, they just use rusty shells.  (And most of what they use from the old car is in a catalog these days anyway).  

The final product of a conversion could also perform notably better than a stock modern 4dr Charger if you limited how much weight you piled onto it with amenities.  The modern car starts out weighing something like 4200 lbs whereas a vintage Charger is more like 3700 lbs.  Build it with a racecar type interior, etc, and I would think the car will end up with a curb weight closer to the old car than the new one.   

[hollywood1336]

I think you are wrong about your Viper statement, Check all the publications, they will say just how well it preforms, handling, 0-60, 0-100, top speed and that it held it's own against the Z01 Corvette and kicked the Porche's ass.
Good luck though, Lambo's are pretty cars.

[Silver R/T]

[charger Downunder]

George it looks like you have three Dodges to sell now.
I would keep the blue one and sell the other two.
If your going to get an Italian car you will need at least $5,000 in you pocket for a service and look at the older Ferrari's they usually need an engine overhaul even though they have low km on them, a high maintenance car.

[G-man]

Thanks Bob mike Holly.

I guess what im overall saying is that, if performance was not an issue (Like you said vipers can kick ass) its the look I like about the Euro Exotics, even if never to be raced and just a car to get in and drive somewhere with, would be worth it to me. So Doing what Mike etc said isnt the issue here. Im getting the look and the performance out of the lambos/GT40s that I like. Performs and looks the way I want it to look doing it. If never raced, then obviously the question is "Well then keep the charger since performance is not the issue" - But I love the way the exotics look and always have. If performance is the issue, why do the charger up for X amount of dollars when I can have that exotic look and it performs at the same time (hence vipers, corvettes miodified this and that is not the issue as they dont look like the lambos/gt40s etc)

I guess as said before though...

Ive loved the lambos etc ever since I was small. So its been something ive kinda loved ever since always. Yes I love the Charger due to Dukes of Hazard and that 'flying orange car' was so awesome when I was young and it was more a possibility to own. Now that the exotic seems to be a possibility with the business and all... maybe I can bring that dream back from behind the shelf and sit it infront as a "im seriously gonna get there one day". I guess its good motivation (not the only one ofcourse) for me to keep at working hard at the business. So to have even an old ferrari 308... its a little 'taste', a little drop in the water, a little 'seeable' dream of what I will one day be able to drive (The diablo/GT40 depending what i decide by that stage).

Yes the 68 Charger looks better to me than the 308. Yes It has more power than the 308, yes it will leave the 308 for dead at green lights, yes v8s are my most favourite sounding engines (especially the hemi - my all time fav engine), Yes I love seeing such a big huge chrome engine in the hood, Yes I love carburettors.

But owning the 308, just to be in it knowing "hell this is a ferrari" is making the ultimate dream that little bit more real.

[G-man]

George it looks like you have three Dodges to sell now.
I would keep the blue one and sell the other two.
If your going to get an Italian car you will need at least $5,000 in you pocket for a service and look at the older Ferrari's they usually need an engine overhaul even though they have low km on them, a high maintenance car.

Thanks Steve. I found one that had the complete engine overhaul, 11 000 was spent. From what I found down here from people that can service these cars, Im looking at around 3000-4000 dollars every 45 000km to keep it serviced (cam belts replaced etc). Worst case scenario, engine blows up, 15 000 for a new one. So major servicing of 4000 or so, is gonna be done like every 2-3 years if driven enough. General services/oil change/filter change/spark plugs etc costs no more than a Toyota. If its a v12, then different story... but if there was enough $$$ being made to even afford a v12 exotic, the maintanence wouldnt be an issue. Earning 30 000-50 000 a year to service a new car that doesnt cost much to maintain or earning 100 000+ a year to service the more expensive v12s, the comparision is the same as ur dealing with a complete different budget.

I also dont plan to have the 308 for longer than 12-16 months. So I shouldnt run into the massive (2000-4000 dollar) service before it gets sold to upgrade to the Testarossa. It jsut probbably wont get enough Kms on it to need it by then.

[mikesbbody]

What I don't understand, is why didn't you get a Ferrari in the first place? were you not in a position to afford one? also surely you would have realised, a 40+ year old American Car, the size of a Charger is not gonna handle like it's on rails? as for the "not a real muscle" comment I hope you were not directing that at me because I didn't say that (I haven't read all the replies) you must have known you would get some crap in regards to your decision on a Charger site? had you said "I want to get a Boss Mustang, 454 Chevelle" etc I doubt the reaction would have been the same.
If it's your dream I say go for it! I grew up loving Exotics I had Ferrari Books stacked up in the Book case
Would have endless arguments with a Cousin of mine about which was better (he liked Lambo's).
Someone else said the 2 Ferrari's racing in Aus are not doing well that could be due to a inexperienced Driver or whatever. I have a Friend in Arizona he has a Backyard full of Charger's, works for a Multi Millionaire who owns a Lambo Giardo? anyway, we picked it up it was being "serviced" I forget what the cost was but it was crazy, I followed my Friend back to his Bosse's place in his Rumble Bee (both Yellow) more people looked at the Dodge than the Lambo. Another time my Friend went to a Car show
driving his Bosse's Lambo he was there to look at the Muscle Car's he tell's me the pulls up and someone say's "look at that rich Asshole" he didn't say anything back what was the point? but yeah certain Car's are associated with "Rich Assholes" that's just the way it is and probably always will be.

[G-man]

Its ok mikes, i wasnt saying u

And I know what you mean. Cant please everyone, i mean look at the chargers... people make GLs and g flack from CHARGER owners.

Its get what u like and drive it situation. I guess thats why theres somany car manufacturers, everyone suits a different person... Now an aston martin would be nice!

[mikesbbody]

I hear ya! even owning a 3rd gen your "Mud" in some Charger owners minds  bottom line, do what you want, what you have dreamed about I never thought I'd end up owning a Dodge charger look at it this way. how many people can say they owned a Charger AND a Exotic? Aston Martin's my old Neighbour's son and I had debates over which was better (Ferrari's or Astons) so i had my arguments with him, and my Cousin 

[rooks]

Someone else said the 2 Ferrari's racing in Aus are not doing well that could be due to a inexperienced Driver or whatever.

That was me ... and that was partly my point. Trying to let George know that just because he goes from 40yo poor handling muscle to 30yo exotic doesn't mean a damn thing. There's more to performance and race results than the specs listed in the sales brochure.

But ... none of it matters. His mind seems made up. He went from wanting an 850hp precision built performance Muscle Car that can compete against anything, to a Ferrari that he's only going to have for a year and not really drive much so he can upgrade to something else, because he doesn't want to clean splattered bugs off a grille.

George - reading your posts in this thread it really does seem you're unsure of what you truly do want. No biggie - happens to all of us. May I make a suggestion? Before dumping the Charger and splashing cash on the Euro, why not try something a little simpler, just in case it turns out you the Charger was the right choice all along.

Go grab yourself a complete Hotchkis TVS package for the Charger.

Then grab some shocks, disc brakes and 17" wheels.

You'd be surprised how different the car drives.

My Challenger has PST sway bars, torsion bars and shocks - and the difference just those few things make compared to stock is unbelievable. You'd think it's bullshit - but the this re-engineered geometry corrected crap works. How, I have no bloody idea, but it does. And I still run stock brakes, 15" wheels, stock leaf springs - and it's an auto.

It really looks like you're giving up on the Charger prematurely. Forget all this $200k build full tube chassis nonsense. I think you've spent so much time looking into "the absolute best" that you've overlooked the simpler, cheaper and very, very capable bolt-on suspension upgrades that are now out there.

Best of all, if it doesn't work out, all those parts can be resold, and you can chuck the original parts back on the Charger before offloading it.



... and one more thing. Got pics of your Charger? Don't ever recall seeing it ... and if you do sell, how much you want?

[G-man]

Mikes, after seeing more astons... thats a nice business car, not out there looking as what im after.

Who argued which side? (Just  curious! )

Rooks - I know what I want. Its a Lamborghini Diablo GT. Until funds allow for such a car, I figured I mayswell ease my way into 'exotic' cars. Hence my idea of the 308, cheap enough to get now, drive that for 12 months till I got the difference for a Testarossa, sell the 308, buy the testarossa, drive that till I got the difference for a Countache, then sell the Rossa for the Count, then drive that till I got the difference and sell the count and have ultimately what I wanted which is the Diablo.

I just figured rather than sit around and wait til the final result I could have some fun upgrading in steps.

My car 41Husk sold to me, there was 100 pictures of it on this site.
Howmuch? Not sure... will be driving it around Aus and see what people offer. Seeing what kinda junk sells here for 40 000, Id be looking at 50 000 considering its in great condition, everything fixed on it now, totaly original including the metal on it. But thats my guess, will see what happenes. Maybe I will hold onto it and just earn the difference for the 308, buy it, drive it. If I love it, sell the charger then, If I dont, sell it for the money baught and still got my 68.

MMmmmmmM - We will see.

[surmanajaja]

if you want an "exotic", go for it. the 308 is beautiful car, low and small so it handles nice..but..remember, its a decades old italian car that wasnt really well built to begin with..my experiences with these are that theyre very undependable,full with electrical problems and not really fast at all.. anyway,theyre affordable so drive it and experience it, then you can tell your kids u used to have a ferrari.

older lambos are even worse, the diablo is one of the worst made cars ever, so if you really want to enjoy an italian and have some money. pls just go and buy a gallardo. its from a different planet, well made, drivable even in snow or where-ever you want, and can be used daily if wanted. yes I know countach is much more attractive looking but its a real headache when something breaks and its not something you would enjoy to drive often,,

I myself would get a pantera if I wanted something exotic looking that can be built to haul ass. but right now my dream car is a "survivor" charger, preferably a 1970 and when I get one I wont be changing it to anything else.no matter how slow and bad handling it will be, those things I can fix if I need to..

[mikesbbody]

"Who argued which side?" (Just  curious! )

I was Ferrari all the way G Man  the funny thing is, we were just kids, we didn't truely know a thing
About which car was really better but I always stuck up for Ferrari's 

[greenpigs]

I myself would get a pantera if I wanted something exotic looking that can be built to haul ass.

X2

[Laxy]

G-man I have read your posts on here for a long time since the debacle with your first Charger and I think you are doing the right thing by selling up.

You need to be passionate about these cars to enjoy them, whereas I notice you always just focus on the faults and what they can't do. 40 year old muscle cars are always going to have quirks and faults, that's why we love 'em! Obsessing over some ridiculous horsepower figure and whether it will outhandle a modern sports car based is completely insane, especially given the laws over here now mean you can't even fart without getting your car impounded.

I don't want to be rude, but in your posts you do not really come across as a 'car guy' let alone a 'Mopar guy', maybe get yourself some nice new turbo jap/euro thing from a dealer for some speed thrills, then stick to Gran Turismo and Top Gear to get your exotic supercar kicks, as it sounds like these cars will ultimately not live up to your expectations either.

All the best, whatever you decide. 

[Budnicks]

OK...I wasn't gonna get Angry but some of the comments about Magnum PI  he was my Boyhood Hero! kicking Ass and getting the ladies! Magnum P.I was a Icon of the 80's! Tom Selleck a.k.a. "Magnum" (now 66, no Moustache) John Hillerman a.k.a "Higgens" (now 78) Roger E Mosley a.k.a "TC" (now 72) and Larry Manetti a.k.a "Rick" (now 63) They were all "Cool Guy's" to me (well maybe not Rick...) John Hillerman's British accent fooled me, and my Father (who's British)
But...that was then this is now I grew up, learned that Car's like Ferrari's were driven by Rich Guy's most of them never held a Wrench in their life. I got interested in "Real" Cars American Muscle
The Best of the Best...Mopars! 850 H.P is not the same across the board it's WAY Cooler in Mopar
Muscle I don't even look at these so called "Exotics" but everyone has Their opinions as said so many times "It's your car do what you want" if you want to sell a Diamond and buy a Turd that's your decision but not more Magnum P.I Bashing!!! don't make me start a FaceBook Page...

Now that's a funny post. I agree 100%.    Budnicks

[MaximRecoil]

"Who argued which side?" (Just  curious! )

I was Ferrari all the way G Man  the funny thing is, we were just kids, we didn't truely know a thing
About which car was really better but I always stuck up for Ferrari's 

That's funny. I only had one friend when I was a kid (mid-to-late '80s) that was into cars like I was, and we agreed on most things. We liked both Lamborghini and Ferrari, as well as Porsche, Corvettes, and most muscle cars, without arguing over which was better. His "holy grail" was the '63 Corvette (split rear window), whereas mine was the '69 Charger, so I suppose we disagreed on that.

There was another friend that hung out with us that only cared about the '55 Chevy and a '74 Torino; which was the result of influence from his father rather than a genuine interest in cars. His father had owned a '55 Chevy when he was young and always raved about it, and had a '74 Torino at the time that he'd bought new and was still in excellent condition; which my friend thought was the greatest thing since cheese in an aerosol can. I thought his father's Torino was nice, but it didn't hold a candle to a 1970 Torino in my opinion.

[G-man]

Thanks Laxy... Please dont say "go get jap import"... seriously... I never owned and never will own one of those things.

First car was an 87 GTA - Trans Am which was extremelly nice to drive. Firm, low roof line... I enjoyed that car. 2nd was an Aussie Muscle car, 72 VH valiant Charger (dont like and never will aussie muscle cars - they just are not the real thing)... then 3rd was a 70 Challenger, very nice but not tough looking like the 68, 4th 68 Charger which a resto shop lied to me about 'problems' that were non existent hence I went for another 68 Charger and only found out they were trying to rip me off after I had gotten the new 68, 5th 68 Charger, very nice drives great, fun, blast, toughest looking car on the planet and would never own any other muscle car ever.

So your right to a point with your post but not at the same time. If I had the money for both, and wanted to have 2 cars, I would never sell this 68. But for same money to get a car thats better in terms of quality and in the direction of my ultimate dream... even though the ferrari looks nowhere near as nice as my beautiful 68, its a step in the 'right direction' as to what I ultimatelly want.

It wasnt easy for me to decide this as I do love the charger. Hence I aksed if I can hang around this site even if i dont own the charger cause I just love seeing them. But if not...  


Mikes - thanks for the Humour, I figured you would have been . Its ok, on this euro side of the world (or cars in that league) I got many options, from the beautiful Ford GT (remake of the GT40 which actually out handles all Lamborghinis), a Tweaked Diablo (hopefully will corner better to compare more to the GT), Ferraris... worst comes to worst, I can always get the Mclaren F1 or the Bugatti (not the veyron but the older one) but I thinks ima not worry about that. Id be happy with the countache if nothing else. Point is, theres Porsche, lotus and everything else I could look into in this sort of category.

[Budnicks]

"Who argued which side?" (Just  curious! )

I was Ferrari all the way G Man  the funny thing is, we were just kids, we didn't truely know a thing
About which car was really better but I always stuck up for Ferrari's 

That's funny. I only had one friend when I was a kid (mid-to-late '80s) that was into cars like I was, and we agreed on most things. We liked both Lamborghini and Ferrari, as well as Porsche, Corvettes, and most muscle cars, without arguing over which was better. His "holy grail" was the '63 Corvette (split rear window), whereas mine was the '69 Charger, so I suppose we disagreed on that.

There was another friend that hung out with us that only cared about the '55 Chevy and a '74 Torino; which was the result of influence from his father rather than a genuine interest in cars. His father had owned a '55 Chevy when he was young and always raved about it, and had a '74 Torino at the time that he'd bought new and was still in excellent condition; which my friend thought was the greatest thing since cheese in an aerosol can. I thought his father's Torino was nice, but it didn't hold a candle to a 1970 Torino in my opinion.

When I was a young driver My step father had Pontiacs/GTO's & a 35 Ford pick-up & a Ford Country Squire Woody wagon, & a 68 Sport Satellite 383 4spd .The only people I hung out with were Mopar guys except my father, I had the 68 R/T Charger,  Rocco had the 67 R/t, John had the 383 4spd 69 RR, Mark had the 70 6bbl RR, Pat had the 440 6pac 70 R/T Charger (his father had a 68 hemi `cuda I owned latter), My younger brother Tim had a 57 Cheby pick-up he was a squirrel, his best friend had a 65 Mustang he was a squirrel. so growing up anyone with a early Cheby stepside or a Mustang was a squirrel to me. LOL. Now of corse I don't think like that now, but you can see were I am coming from. I was currupted at an early age.    Budnicks

[440]

I myself would get a pantera if I wanted something exotic looking that can be built to haul ass.

X2

X3 - If you have the cash a Pantera GT5

If your not passionate about the Charger sell it to someone who is.

[mikesbbody]

I've been thinking about G Man's situation and feel I have overlooked something and that is How many of us are lucky enough to truely be in a postion to Buy what we want? (when it comes to a Car) it doesn't matter if it's a Muscle Car, a Exotic, a Ricer whatever if you are in a position to get what you have always wanted then good for you! I have a 72 SE Charger my Dream Charger? not by a long shot!
(I'd love a 71 RT or a 71 Super Bee followed by a 72 Rallye Charger. My only hope is to make my Charger into one of those cars. My only other American car, was a 71 caddy big? yes! ugly yup! I loved it though but it wasn't what i wanted long term so i can TOTALLY relate to you G Man. Another thing, while I can understand my Charger won't drive like a modern Car, if i had the $ to update it I would in a Heartbeat. btw, I never really even knew about American Car's until the likes of the D.O.H, Knightrider etc came along and my Dad (or anyone I knew) never owned anything American. Maybe one Day G Man
Will have another Charger to keep his Ferrari Company.