For everyone to read

[G-man]

Hello guys,

You all know how I wanted to turn my 68 Charger into one serious performing street car. Ive decided that to do what I want ultimatelly, a dodge charger is not the car for me. As sad as I am... Im too perdantic/perfectionist that any issues (chrome going brown when raining etc etc), having to fix this having to fix that, this stops working that stops working etc etc to want to be stuffed with a car like this.

Consideing im talking serious performance, I have learned that power-weight ratio is power-weight ratio (yesI know this is remarkable  ). Whether that be a 8.6 litre Hemi putting out 850hp or whether thats a v12 6.0 litre pushing out 850 hp or whether that be a v6 pushing out 850hp... 850hp is 850 hp!

I want a handling car and a car that goes hard in a straight line. Yes I can spend 200 000 on the dodge charger to make it handle (what I thought, brand new tube chasis etc etc)... why not just buy a lamborghini Diablo For that money? It will still probbably perform better than the dodge and its got the horsepower in it to not be intimidated at the lights either.

Since im running a business, cant deal with all the issues old cars tend to have... Im going euro-exotic and placing money there.

For now I will get a ferrari 308 (yes i know thats not very new but at least it wont rust as its fibreglass) and its in the direction of the Diablo I ultimatelly want (it is a euro exotic car even if its on the cheaper end of the scale).

So thanks everybody for all the imput, time and effort to answer all my questions, I guess the effort you guys put in an answering all my out there questions braught me to this decision as I learned alot... so theres no point spending 200k on a charger. IF i dont like the charger after that money is spent, good luck selling it, and good luck not losing A LOT of money on the sale. I also had to come to terms with the fact that a charger due to its body shape etc can not top the speeds these exotics top unless I turn it into a daytona... however then it does not look like a charger anymore which defeats the purpose. I also like 15" wheels best on a charger because its muscly, but 15" wheels wont perform like 17" wheels, euro exotic cars standard come with 17" wheels and it looks good on them cause there designed to suit that looking wheel. Yes I can buy 17" wheels but they dont look right to me on the charger.

So no matter how I turn it, it just wont work out for me with the mopar. Sure theres the Viper if I wanna stick to mopar... but, seriously... I dont see that handling/being as good as lamborghinis nor does it have that real aggressive look I like about the Diablo.

For now Im selling my 68 Charger that I just got from Allen(41husk) (Sorry mate I feel bad to  but im glad I could have helped u get your Daytona at least  )... replacing it with a ferrari 308, when I save up some coin going to sell the 308 and buy a testarossa, then save up alot of coin, sell the testarossa buy the countache and then save up as much as the countache cost and sell the countache to have my Diablo GT. Will tweak the engine to make 750hp... thats gonna go extremelly hard in a straight line (harder than the charger at 750 considering its lighter) and it will out handle a charger no matter howmuch money I chucked at the charger, also who can complain about how that car looks? And no rust issue problems which I cant stand about these old cars.

So thanks everyone for everything but Im going in a completelly new direction. As said, the charger jsut wont do what I want and be how i want it to look doing it.

Love you all! (I may still hang around if thats ok? - let u know on the updates etc?)

George

[greenpigs]

Are you going to get a Hawaiian shirt & grow a mustache?  Sorry I had too.

Sounds like a fun car & the Magnum PI jokes may happen allot, not sure as I don't follow the Ferrari brand.

I would like to see it whenever you get one.

[1969chargerrtse]

Fully understand.  Dofferent strokes for different folks.  There needs to be a strong love and dedication to deal with these older cars for sure.  Mine put me through hell and back, but I'm a Muscle car guy since childhood and hung in there.  Good for you and I wish you best.  You're doing the right thing for you.  

[tan top]

yeah i can see what your saying !!  , you got to do , what you got to do , & best suits your taste / what you want to get out of a car 

[MaximRecoil]

Consideing im talking serious performance, I have learned that power-weight ratio is power-weight ratio (yesI know this is remarkable   ). Whether that be a 8.6 litre Hemi putting out 850hp or whether thats a v12 6.0 litre pushing out 850 hp or whether that be a v6 pushing out 850hp... 850hp is 850 hp!

Not exactly. There are going to be different characteristics depending upon variables such as naturally aspirated vs. forced induction and the RPM range where it makes the most horse power. There is also torque to consider.

For now I will get a ferrari 308 (yes i know thats not very new but at least it wont rust as its fibreglass) and its in the direction of the Diablo I ultimatelly want (it is a euro exotic car even if its on the cheaper end of the scale).

Ferrari 308s are steel-bodied cars, most of them anyway. For the first two years of production ('75-'77) they used a fiberglass body, but from '77-'85 they were steel. I would much rather have a steel-bodied car than a fiberglass-bodied car any day; you get more reliable grounding for the electrical system and they are much easier to repair in the event of damage; or at least, there are far more people capable of doing a proper repair on steel than on fiberglass.

For now Im selling my 68 Charger that I just got from Allen(41husk) (Sorry mate I feel bad to   but im glad I could have helped u get your Daytona at least   )... replacing it with a ferrari 308, when I save up some coin going to sell the 308 and buy a testarossa, then save up alot of coin, sell the testarossa buy the countache and then save up as much as the countache cost and sell the countache to have my Diablo GT. Will tweak the engine to make 750hp... thats gonna go extremelly hard in a straight line (harder than the charger at 750 considering its lighter) and it will out handle a charger no matter howmuch money I chucked at the charger, also who can complain about how that car looks? And no rust issue problems which I cant stand about these old cars.

Wow, that's going to be a lot of money. But yeah, if you want sports car handling, your best bet is to get a sports car. A '68 Charger is essentially a midsize (by '60s standards) family car, no different underneath the skin than a '68 Satellite or a '68 Coronet. I'm sure it could be made to handle like a high end sports car with enough cash thrown at it, but there wouldn't be much left of it that was still Dodge Charger; i.e., you'd end up with a highly stripped down tube chassis with a completely custom suspension and Charger body panels; something akin to a current NASCAR stock car.

Also, most cars are susceptible to rust problems; i.e., even if their body panels aren't steel, their frames usually are. The main reason that Chargers tend to be so rusty these days when you find them is because they were not an exotic car when they were new (even though many of them command exotic car-like prices these days); they were average priced cars that the average guy could afford, and they tended to be daily drivers regardless of the weather or season. Something like a Ferrari on the other hand, being an expensive exotic car, was bought primarily by wealthy people, and probably garaged, regularly maintained at the dealership, and only driven occasionally in nice weather. Things that are highly valuable when new tend to stay in better condition than things which only become highly valuable ~25 years later.

By the way, the Ferrari 308 is the second best looking body style ever created in my opinion (second only to the second generation Dodge Charger). It is also probably the cheapest and most practical of the super cars that you mentioned. In addition to the Charger and 308 both having amazing body lines, another thing that they have in common is that they are both 1980s "stars" or icons in the mind of the public; i.e. the 308 because of Magnum, P.I. and the Charger because of The Dukes of Hazzard.

[doctor4766]

I guess you weren't really a Charger guy then.
Hopefully the car will go to someone who can appreciate it for what it is, rather than what it isn't...

[Magnumcharger]

I understand completely where you're coming from.

As much as I love my Charger (and I do), it's an old car and subject to all of the traits of old cars, ie; handling, fuel consumption and an almost complete lack of safety features.

The exotics are in a class all by themselves. A lot of people throw a heck of a lot of money at the old B bodies in an attempt to "modernize" these cars, when in reality, they would be far better off just accepting these cars for what they are, stop kidding themselves and go buy a used Corvette. (You mean Chargers really can't fly??)

My poor old Charger, with it's ancient carburator-equipped 440 gets pathetic mileage, with it's 4:10 gears has an abysmal top end, and with it's four speed is very similar to driving a truck.
But that's the way I like it!
I'm not trying to kid myself.

I say: Follow your dream! Good luck!

[Cooter]

I guess you weren't really a Charger guy then.
Hopefully the car will go to someone who can appreciate it for what it is, rather than what it isn't...

Amen...........Sounds like a kick  balls to anyone who actualy puts in the time to restore/rebuild one of these Rust issue proned cars" huh?

[PocketThunder]

 

[Brock Samson]

  are you sure your not runninhorn?...  

 i hope you mean the dino 308 and not that magnum PI thing...

 

 because as I'm SURE you know since you did all did the research the Dino 308 is far superior on all counts to the magnum PI version..
but, you know that right?..  

 Maximum is correct when he says Torque is the issue not horsepower...
 Personally from your posts i think you are - as you say "to" much "perdantic/perfectionist" to be on this site.

[Aero426]

 are you sure your not runninhorn?...  

 i hope you mean the dino 308 and not that magnum PI thing...

 

Runninhorn was the first thing I thought of.    

The Dino 308 GT4 is all steel (Bertone built).    Early Magnum PI style 308s were made of tupperware by Scaglietti.  Both are bottom feeders relatively speaking.   They are inexpensive to get into, but it is very easy to be upside down quickly.  Because both are "cheap", they are the poster children of deferred maintainance.   In other words, the purchase price is just the beginning.     Both handle nicely, but are not anywhere near supercar performance catagory.    

[Brock Samson]

 the mid engine GT4 version is far superior to the other one... problem is when it goes through clutches- and they will quite often, you have to pull the motor,.. Mr. Sheeves over on ALLPAR has one and swears it's the best car he's ever driven and he's an Auto Engineer for a living the guy knows his sheet being responsible for many off road race vehicles and he has trouble with replacing the clutches, I'd belive his word and choices in vehicles way before most yahoos on the internet...  Think this G-man has ever ran a car on a track?.. Taken a class?.. or even driven an exotic?..
I think not. 

[Aero426]

There are people who really love their GT4's.  They didn't get ANY respect for years, but seem to have developed a bit of cult following.    I think the GT4 looks much better in person than in photos.    Both 308's are probably the last Ferraris that if you are mechanically inclined, you can work on yourself.    You certainly want to pay more for one that has been maintained and has the receipts to prove it.  

[MaximRecoil]

Both handle nicely, but are not anywhere near supercar performance catagory.    

There's no hard and fast definition for "supercar", but it generally refers to expensive mid-engine sports cars. The first car that was popularly referred to as a "supercar" was the Lamborghini Miura (the first mid-engine production road car), which — while outperforming a 308 — wouldn't really compete with the supercars of today. I consider both the 308 GTB/GTS and the "Dino" 308 GT4 to be supercars of their time, though not at the top of the heap.

Now, to go on a bit of a tangent here; the Magnum, P.I. style 308 (e.g., GTB/GTS) is my favorite sports car body style (with the very similar-looking Berlinetta Boxer being a close second), maybe because it reminds me of the Dodge Charger (e.g., Coke bottle styling, tunneled rear window, hidden headlights, similar angle on the trailing edge of the C-pillar). If a second generation Dodge Charger had been reimagined as a mid-engine sports car, a Ferrari 308 GTB/GTS is about what it would've ended up looking like I think.

[Mike DC]

 

The best deal in exotic-speed cars is a decent used modern Corvette. 

You can love it, hate it, don't wanna be seen in it . . . whatever.  Regardless, it's still by far the best deal if you just wanna go fast.  And when you throw in other factors like reliability & servicing headaches then I doubt anything else even comes close. 

[bobs66440]

  They are inexpensive to get into, but it is very easy to be upside down quickly.  Because both are "cheap", they are the poster children of deferred maintainance.   In other words, the purchase price is just the beginning.       

I agree. You have to be really careful to get a car with FULL service records. If you got a bad one FREE, you will wish you hadn't by the time you're done...

[Aero426]

There's no hard and fast definition for "supercar", but it generally refers to expensive mid-engine sports cars. The first car that was popularly referred to as a "supercar" was the Lamborghini Miura (the first mid-engine production road car), which — while outperforming a 308 — wouldn't really compete with the supercars of today. I consider both the 308 GTB/GTS and the "Dino" 308 GT4 to be supercars of their time, though not at the top of the heap.

The difference is that cars like the Miura remain regarded as a supercar icons, versus the 308 a volume production car for the masses.   I would describe the 308 as technically advanced, and high performance, but probably not a supercar.  In the dark days of 1976, both 308's were excellent cars a person could live with and actually drive.   But I don't think they approach the level of outright performance or exclusivity of a contemporary like the Countach.    

For decades, many Ferrari enthusiasts considered cars without a V12 to be sub par.   That has eased in regard to the 246 cars for sure.   As all the Dinos were conceived as their own entry level brand with their own badging, there is a reason that some owners slapped prancing horse emblems on them later!

[MaximRecoil]

versus the 308 a volume production car for the masses.

Relatively speaking perhaps; but they only made about 12,000 of them over 11 model years, and they were about $60K in the '80s. I've only ever seen one for sure in real life (Vic Firth has or had one, and his drumstick factory is 15 minutes from where I live). There was also one that I passed by once in the late '90s, but it may have been a kit car.

I suppose if someone wants more performance with the basic appearance of the 308 GTB/GTS they could get a 288 GTO (and pay dearly for it); which is definitely a "supercar".

[41husk]

I am sorry the car did not work out for you, but I am glad I was able to get the Daytona.

[skip68]

Well good luck with the new car. Post some pictures. 

[69 OUR/TEA]

We're all into different things,for me,could care less how my Charger performs,I was into them for the style and looks.But anyway,good luck with your venture.

[Big Sugar]

Sorry, I think by the time you find a suitable 308 and then go thru the prep work to turn it into a track monster, you'd be cheaper off just rebuilding your Charger to suit your needs, pretty sure you would gain a whole lot more respect at the autocross track in a Muscle pro touring car over a Ferrari 308.

And if your paying attention to the latest trends, The Classic  Muscle Car is in Big Pro Touring movement right now, I'd say Find yourself a nice lil A body and get you power to weigt ratio fix there and have a whole lot of fun spanking the Big Exotics with your old American Iron.

Or if your heart is set on getting out of your Mopar, Id stay away from the Exotics, Big Money, Big Expenses you'll have a running tap on your bank account.
Don't rush into a bad choice, Follow the Pro Touring or Autocross movement, and see whats hot.


Ron

[472 R/T SE]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReYfu5E-hOE&feature=related

[Big Sugar]

[greenpigs]

Why not build a Cobra kit car with paxton style supercharged 427 Windsor?

[mikesbbody]

OK...I wasn't gonna get Angry but some of the comments about Magnum PI  he was my Boyhood Hero! kicking Ass and getting the ladies! Magnum P.I was a Icon of the 80's! Tom Selleck a.k.a. "Magnum" (now 66, no Moustache) John Hillerman a.k.a "Higgens" (now 78) Roger E Mosley a.k.a "TC" (now 72) and Larry Manetti a.k.a "Rick" (now 63) They were all "Cool Guy's" to me (well maybe not Rick...) John Hillerman's British accent fooled me, and my Father (who's British)
But...that was then this is now I grew up, learned that Car's like Ferrari's were driven by Rich Guy's most of them never held a Wrench in their life. I got interested in "Real" Cars American Muscle
The Best of the Best...Mopars! 850 H.P is not the same across the board it's WAY Cooler in Mopar
Muscle I don't even look at these so called "Exotics" but everyone has Their opinions as said so many times "It's your car do what you want" if you want to sell a Diamond and buy a Turd that's your decision but not more Magnum P.I Bashing!!! don't make me start a FaceBook Page...

[rooks]

Magnum P.I. is a damn legend! Nuff said!



George - shame you feel that way mate but I gotta say, with what you seem to be wanting out of a car - don't think that a simple marquee switch will solve anything. Any vehicle will require a shit-load of work to get it to wear you say you want it. You'll still be spending bucket-loads - just for different things - and you'll have trouble selling any car that's been modified beyond stock. Muscle or exotic - the people willing to buy these things treat them the same. They believe they're classics, and should basically be left as such.

So the Ferrari handles better in stock trim than the Charger. A little less work is required on that front. Upkeep is still going to bite you in the arse. Expect to pay 2-3 times the cost for parts & services - and everything will have to be special ordered. Quality workmanship & those familiar with a Ferrari will be very limited. As mentioned - if you buy it cheap, it's because it's been neglected. One in great condition will have been well maintained, and it will cost you money to keep it that way - if you're going to be driving it as you say you are, you'll be forever repairing battle damage, resprays, engine rebuilds etc. When you lose control that tree/barrier/other vehicle you hit won't care if it's an exotic or not.



... and I gotta ask. Where the bloody hell will you be driving it that an 850hp Charger won't be good enough?

Targa Tasmania is the only non-professional motor-sport event in Oz worth spit that you'd seriously consider winning a true achievement. Unless you want to spend your weekends "competing" against VL Commodores & Clubsports.

Targa Tasmania is actually on right now. It's 4 days in to it's schedule. To give you some perspective - in the Classics class there are 2 Ferrari 308's - a 1976 GTB & a 1977 GT4 Dino.

Over the past 4 days the '76 is in 30th place and the '77 is 48th - now beating these 2 cars are: a 1948 Holden FX (6 cylinder), 1977 Holden Torana, two Dato 240Z's, a '65 Mustang, a '71 Ford Falcon, '61 Volvo 122S and a '61 Volvo PV544, a couple RX7's, a Triumph, a '63 Jensen, a few other odds & ends and over a dozen varying Porsche's.


Forget the balls out best handling 850 HP vehicle money can buy idea. It's stupid. Figure out where you're going to race it. You can't take it around the world - you've got a business to run. Where will you drive it? What events? Can you even drive? Got a CAMS licence? Go for a test drive in a V8 Supercar to see if you got the stomach to even handle those speeds & turns.

Jumping from one marquee to the next won't save you money, it won't save you time, and it won't guarantee a better/faster car - all it will do is make a different group of people think you're cool, and a different group of people think you're a douche. Nothing more, nothing less.


If you love the Charger - build it, but build it to a purpose - don't just throw money at it and crank everything to 10.

[G-man]

Thanks for all your replies.

Guess what I wasnt saying is... Im definatelly not throwing money at a 308. What I was saying is, the way I am, I dont like to 'change' stuff thats on a car. I dont like modifying stuff.

So if a car doesnt handle, i probbably wont modify it to handle, so buying something that does handle, since i wont change it is ok cause it 'does handle' stock and thats good enough. I m also not gettign the 308 because its some how going to outperform who knows what, Im getting it cause its a step in the exotic world before the serious cars which cost 300 000+ come along which i definately cant afford... so even a standard 308 which doesnt perform all that great is good as its a step in the right direction as to what im heading towards (A diablo)

I do love the charger, so the "not a real muscle" comment was not needed. I do love the way the 68 Charger looks and no car on the planet is ever gonna look as tough as that. However, it wont do in stock form what I want a car to do. At the same time, I never thought a lambo etc would ever be something possible. Considering its starting to look like something that is achievable...  it was my childhood dream to own a lambo.

My most favourite/used matchbox car when i was between 5-10 was a White Countache. Then my grandparents (who are no longer alive) baught me a black good sized model sort of car that had some sort of rotor thing in the wheels that as u pushed it few times the wheels would speed up then ud let car go and it would drive... that was a black Diablo.

On the commodore 64 computer the game "Test Drive" my brothers always picked the Lotus Esprite Turbo and the Ferrari Testarossa, I always picked the Countache. Its not something new/un thought of. Even if I never race the lamborghini, never add more power (600hp is enough anyway hat it comes with) just to be driving that, and having the road feel and manners of a car like that... is great. I always loved the doors opening upwards. So In general id just like to own that car.

And yes Brock its the 308 GTSi, 1982.

I wouldnt want to ruin a charger by cutting it to pieces to get what I want under it to perform how id like it to. Its too much of a good car to modify especially the blue one I got of allen, everything in it is original including all the body panels, trunk floor etc. How could I chop that up? Rather give it to someone that will leave it original and il go buy what will do what I want without having to change anything... I have also always loved cars that were quite low (in terms of where the roof is)


So once again, thanks.

[bobs66440]

My most favourite/used matchbox car when i was between 5-10 was a White Countache. 

I remember the first time I saw one in person. It was at the New York Auto Show around 1978. What a stunning car to be sure. Love it or hate it...you won't forget it. Good luck in your quest...I wouldn't mind one in my garage! 

[Mike DC]

G-man, have you ever thought about buying/commissioning one of these conversions where they take the upper half of an old Charger unibody and mate it with the lower half of a modern 4dr Charger's chassis?  That kind of conversion sounds a lot like what you're seeking to me.  

You end up with mostly the modern car in terms of performance, quality control, maintinence, etc.   The people doing conversions don't typically chop up good condition vintage Chargers, they just use rusty shells.  (And most of what they use from the old car is in a catalog these days anyway).  

The final product of a conversion could also perform notably better than a stock modern 4dr Charger if you limited how much weight you piled onto it with amenities.  The modern car starts out weighing something like 4200 lbs whereas a vintage Charger is more like 3700 lbs.  Build it with a racecar type interior, etc, and I would think the car will end up with a curb weight closer to the old car than the new one.   

[hollywood1336]

I think you are wrong about your Viper statement, Check all the publications, they will say just how well it preforms, handling, 0-60, 0-100, top speed and that it held it's own against the Z01 Corvette and kicked the Porche's ass.
Good luck though, Lambo's are pretty cars.

[Silver R/T]

[charger Downunder]

George it looks like you have three Dodges to sell now.
I would keep the blue one and sell the other two.
If your going to get an Italian car you will need at least $5,000 in you pocket for a service and look at the older Ferrari's they usually need an engine overhaul even though they have low km on them, a high maintenance car.

[G-man]

Thanks Bob mike Holly.

I guess what im overall saying is that, if performance was not an issue (Like you said vipers can kick ass) its the look I like about the Euro Exotics, even if never to be raced and just a car to get in and drive somewhere with, would be worth it to me. So Doing what Mike etc said isnt the issue here. Im getting the look and the performance out of the lambos/GT40s that I like. Performs and looks the way I want it to look doing it. If never raced, then obviously the question is "Well then keep the charger since performance is not the issue" - But I love the way the exotics look and always have. If performance is the issue, why do the charger up for X amount of dollars when I can have that exotic look and it performs at the same time (hence vipers, corvettes miodified this and that is not the issue as they dont look like the lambos/gt40s etc)

I guess as said before though...

Ive loved the lambos etc ever since I was small. So its been something ive kinda loved ever since always. Yes I love the Charger due to Dukes of Hazard and that 'flying orange car' was so awesome when I was young and it was more a possibility to own. Now that the exotic seems to be a possibility with the business and all... maybe I can bring that dream back from behind the shelf and sit it infront as a "im seriously gonna get there one day". I guess its good motivation (not the only one ofcourse) for me to keep at working hard at the business. So to have even an old ferrari 308... its a little 'taste', a little drop in the water, a little 'seeable' dream of what I will one day be able to drive (The diablo/GT40 depending what i decide by that stage).

Yes the 68 Charger looks better to me than the 308. Yes It has more power than the 308, yes it will leave the 308 for dead at green lights, yes v8s are my most favourite sounding engines (especially the hemi - my all time fav engine), Yes I love seeing such a big huge chrome engine in the hood, Yes I love carburettors.

But owning the 308, just to be in it knowing "hell this is a ferrari" is making the ultimate dream that little bit more real.

[G-man]

George it looks like you have three Dodges to sell now.
I would keep the blue one and sell the other two.
If your going to get an Italian car you will need at least $5,000 in you pocket for a service and look at the older Ferrari's they usually need an engine overhaul even though they have low km on them, a high maintenance car.

Thanks Steve. I found one that had the complete engine overhaul, 11 000 was spent. From what I found down here from people that can service these cars, Im looking at around 3000-4000 dollars every 45 000km to keep it serviced (cam belts replaced etc). Worst case scenario, engine blows up, 15 000 for a new one. So major servicing of 4000 or so, is gonna be done like every 2-3 years if driven enough. General services/oil change/filter change/spark plugs etc costs no more than a Toyota. If its a v12, then different story... but if there was enough $$$ being made to even afford a v12 exotic, the maintanence wouldnt be an issue. Earning 30 000-50 000 a year to service a new car that doesnt cost much to maintain or earning 100 000+ a year to service the more expensive v12s, the comparision is the same as ur dealing with a complete different budget.

I also dont plan to have the 308 for longer than 12-16 months. So I shouldnt run into the massive (2000-4000 dollar) service before it gets sold to upgrade to the Testarossa. It jsut probbably wont get enough Kms on it to need it by then.

[mikesbbody]

What I don't understand, is why didn't you get a Ferrari in the first place? were you not in a position to afford one? also surely you would have realised, a 40+ year old American Car, the size of a Charger is not gonna handle like it's on rails? as for the "not a real muscle" comment I hope you were not directing that at me because I didn't say that (I haven't read all the replies) you must have known you would get some crap in regards to your decision on a Charger site? had you said "I want to get a Boss Mustang, 454 Chevelle" etc I doubt the reaction would have been the same.
If it's your dream I say go for it! I grew up loving Exotics I had Ferrari Books stacked up in the Book case
Would have endless arguments with a Cousin of mine about which was better (he liked Lambo's).
Someone else said the 2 Ferrari's racing in Aus are not doing well that could be due to a inexperienced Driver or whatever. I have a Friend in Arizona he has a Backyard full of Charger's, works for a Multi Millionaire who owns a Lambo Giardo? anyway, we picked it up it was being "serviced" I forget what the cost was but it was crazy, I followed my Friend back to his Bosse's place in his Rumble Bee (both Yellow) more people looked at the Dodge than the Lambo. Another time my Friend went to a Car show
driving his Bosse's Lambo he was there to look at the Muscle Car's he tell's me the pulls up and someone say's "look at that rich Asshole" he didn't say anything back what was the point? but yeah certain Car's are associated with "Rich Assholes" that's just the way it is and probably always will be.

[G-man]

Its ok mikes, i wasnt saying u

And I know what you mean. Cant please everyone, i mean look at the chargers... people make GLs and g flack from CHARGER owners.

Its get what u like and drive it situation. I guess thats why theres somany car manufacturers, everyone suits a different person... Now an aston martin would be nice!

[mikesbbody]

I hear ya! even owning a 3rd gen your "Mud" in some Charger owners minds  bottom line, do what you want, what you have dreamed about I never thought I'd end up owning a Dodge charger look at it this way. how many people can say they owned a Charger AND a Exotic? Aston Martin's my old Neighbour's son and I had debates over which was better (Ferrari's or Astons) so i had my arguments with him, and my Cousin 

[rooks]

Someone else said the 2 Ferrari's racing in Aus are not doing well that could be due to a inexperienced Driver or whatever.

That was me ... and that was partly my point. Trying to let George know that just because he goes from 40yo poor handling muscle to 30yo exotic doesn't mean a damn thing. There's more to performance and race results than the specs listed in the sales brochure.

But ... none of it matters. His mind seems made up. He went from wanting an 850hp precision built performance Muscle Car that can compete against anything, to a Ferrari that he's only going to have for a year and not really drive much so he can upgrade to something else, because he doesn't want to clean splattered bugs off a grille.

George - reading your posts in this thread it really does seem you're unsure of what you truly do want. No biggie - happens to all of us. May I make a suggestion? Before dumping the Charger and splashing cash on the Euro, why not try something a little simpler, just in case it turns out you the Charger was the right choice all along.

Go grab yourself a complete Hotchkis TVS package for the Charger.

Then grab some shocks, disc brakes and 17" wheels.

You'd be surprised how different the car drives.

My Challenger has PST sway bars, torsion bars and shocks - and the difference just those few things make compared to stock is unbelievable. You'd think it's bullshit - but the this re-engineered geometry corrected crap works. How, I have no bloody idea, but it does. And I still run stock brakes, 15" wheels, stock leaf springs - and it's an auto.

It really looks like you're giving up on the Charger prematurely. Forget all this $200k build full tube chassis nonsense. I think you've spent so much time looking into "the absolute best" that you've overlooked the simpler, cheaper and very, very capable bolt-on suspension upgrades that are now out there.

Best of all, if it doesn't work out, all those parts can be resold, and you can chuck the original parts back on the Charger before offloading it.



... and one more thing. Got pics of your Charger? Don't ever recall seeing it ... and if you do sell, how much you want?

[G-man]

Mikes, after seeing more astons... thats a nice business car, not out there looking as what im after.

Who argued which side? (Just  curious! )

Rooks - I know what I want. Its a Lamborghini Diablo GT. Until funds allow for such a car, I figured I mayswell ease my way into 'exotic' cars. Hence my idea of the 308, cheap enough to get now, drive that for 12 months till I got the difference for a Testarossa, sell the 308, buy the testarossa, drive that till I got the difference for a Countache, then sell the Rossa for the Count, then drive that till I got the difference and sell the count and have ultimately what I wanted which is the Diablo.

I just figured rather than sit around and wait til the final result I could have some fun upgrading in steps.

My car 41Husk sold to me, there was 100 pictures of it on this site.
Howmuch? Not sure... will be driving it around Aus and see what people offer. Seeing what kinda junk sells here for 40 000, Id be looking at 50 000 considering its in great condition, everything fixed on it now, totaly original including the metal on it. But thats my guess, will see what happenes. Maybe I will hold onto it and just earn the difference for the 308, buy it, drive it. If I love it, sell the charger then, If I dont, sell it for the money baught and still got my 68.

MMmmmmmM - We will see.

[surmanajaja]

if you want an "exotic", go for it. the 308 is beautiful car, low and small so it handles nice..but..remember, its a decades old italian car that wasnt really well built to begin with..my experiences with these are that theyre very undependable,full with electrical problems and not really fast at all.. anyway,theyre affordable so drive it and experience it, then you can tell your kids u used to have a ferrari.

older lambos are even worse, the diablo is one of the worst made cars ever, so if you really want to enjoy an italian and have some money. pls just go and buy a gallardo. its from a different planet, well made, drivable even in snow or where-ever you want, and can be used daily if wanted. yes I know countach is much more attractive looking but its a real headache when something breaks and its not something you would enjoy to drive often,,

I myself would get a pantera if I wanted something exotic looking that can be built to haul ass. but right now my dream car is a "survivor" charger, preferably a 1970 and when I get one I wont be changing it to anything else.no matter how slow and bad handling it will be, those things I can fix if I need to..

[mikesbbody]

"Who argued which side?" (Just  curious! )

I was Ferrari all the way G Man  the funny thing is, we were just kids, we didn't truely know a thing
About which car was really better but I always stuck up for Ferrari's 

[greenpigs]

I myself would get a pantera if I wanted something exotic looking that can be built to haul ass.

X2

[Laxy]

G-man I have read your posts on here for a long time since the debacle with your first Charger and I think you are doing the right thing by selling up.

You need to be passionate about these cars to enjoy them, whereas I notice you always just focus on the faults and what they can't do. 40 year old muscle cars are always going to have quirks and faults, that's why we love 'em! Obsessing over some ridiculous horsepower figure and whether it will outhandle a modern sports car based is completely insane, especially given the laws over here now mean you can't even fart without getting your car impounded.

I don't want to be rude, but in your posts you do not really come across as a 'car guy' let alone a 'Mopar guy', maybe get yourself some nice new turbo jap/euro thing from a dealer for some speed thrills, then stick to Gran Turismo and Top Gear to get your exotic supercar kicks, as it sounds like these cars will ultimately not live up to your expectations either.

All the best, whatever you decide. 

[Budnicks]

OK...I wasn't gonna get Angry but some of the comments about Magnum PI  he was my Boyhood Hero! kicking Ass and getting the ladies! Magnum P.I was a Icon of the 80's! Tom Selleck a.k.a. "Magnum" (now 66, no Moustache) John Hillerman a.k.a "Higgens" (now 78) Roger E Mosley a.k.a "TC" (now 72) and Larry Manetti a.k.a "Rick" (now 63) They were all "Cool Guy's" to me (well maybe not Rick...) John Hillerman's British accent fooled me, and my Father (who's British)
But...that was then this is now I grew up, learned that Car's like Ferrari's were driven by Rich Guy's most of them never held a Wrench in their life. I got interested in "Real" Cars American Muscle
The Best of the Best...Mopars! 850 H.P is not the same across the board it's WAY Cooler in Mopar
Muscle I don't even look at these so called "Exotics" but everyone has Their opinions as said so many times "It's your car do what you want" if you want to sell a Diamond and buy a Turd that's your decision but not more Magnum P.I Bashing!!! don't make me start a FaceBook Page...

Now that's a funny post. I agree 100%.    Budnicks

[MaximRecoil]

"Who argued which side?" (Just  curious! )

I was Ferrari all the way G Man  the funny thing is, we were just kids, we didn't truely know a thing
About which car was really better but I always stuck up for Ferrari's 

That's funny. I only had one friend when I was a kid (mid-to-late '80s) that was into cars like I was, and we agreed on most things. We liked both Lamborghini and Ferrari, as well as Porsche, Corvettes, and most muscle cars, without arguing over which was better. His "holy grail" was the '63 Corvette (split rear window), whereas mine was the '69 Charger, so I suppose we disagreed on that.

There was another friend that hung out with us that only cared about the '55 Chevy and a '74 Torino; which was the result of influence from his father rather than a genuine interest in cars. His father had owned a '55 Chevy when he was young and always raved about it, and had a '74 Torino at the time that he'd bought new and was still in excellent condition; which my friend thought was the greatest thing since cheese in an aerosol can. I thought his father's Torino was nice, but it didn't hold a candle to a 1970 Torino in my opinion.

[G-man]

Thanks Laxy... Please dont say "go get jap import"... seriously... I never owned and never will own one of those things.

First car was an 87 GTA - Trans Am which was extremelly nice to drive. Firm, low roof line... I enjoyed that car. 2nd was an Aussie Muscle car, 72 VH valiant Charger (dont like and never will aussie muscle cars - they just are not the real thing)... then 3rd was a 70 Challenger, very nice but not tough looking like the 68, 4th 68 Charger which a resto shop lied to me about 'problems' that were non existent hence I went for another 68 Charger and only found out they were trying to rip me off after I had gotten the new 68, 5th 68 Charger, very nice drives great, fun, blast, toughest looking car on the planet and would never own any other muscle car ever.

So your right to a point with your post but not at the same time. If I had the money for both, and wanted to have 2 cars, I would never sell this 68. But for same money to get a car thats better in terms of quality and in the direction of my ultimate dream... even though the ferrari looks nowhere near as nice as my beautiful 68, its a step in the 'right direction' as to what I ultimatelly want.

It wasnt easy for me to decide this as I do love the charger. Hence I aksed if I can hang around this site even if i dont own the charger cause I just love seeing them. But if not...  


Mikes - thanks for the Humour, I figured you would have been . Its ok, on this euro side of the world (or cars in that league) I got many options, from the beautiful Ford GT (remake of the GT40 which actually out handles all Lamborghinis), a Tweaked Diablo (hopefully will corner better to compare more to the GT), Ferraris... worst comes to worst, I can always get the Mclaren F1 or the Bugatti (not the veyron but the older one) but I thinks ima not worry about that. Id be happy with the countache if nothing else. Point is, theres Porsche, lotus and everything else I could look into in this sort of category.

[Budnicks]

"Who argued which side?" (Just  curious! )

I was Ferrari all the way G Man  the funny thing is, we were just kids, we didn't truely know a thing
About which car was really better but I always stuck up for Ferrari's 

That's funny. I only had one friend when I was a kid (mid-to-late '80s) that was into cars like I was, and we agreed on most things. We liked both Lamborghini and Ferrari, as well as Porsche, Corvettes, and most muscle cars, without arguing over which was better. His "holy grail" was the '63 Corvette (split rear window), whereas mine was the '69 Charger, so I suppose we disagreed on that.

There was another friend that hung out with us that only cared about the '55 Chevy and a '74 Torino; which was the result of influence from his father rather than a genuine interest in cars. His father had owned a '55 Chevy when he was young and always raved about it, and had a '74 Torino at the time that he'd bought new and was still in excellent condition; which my friend thought was the greatest thing since cheese in an aerosol can. I thought his father's Torino was nice, but it didn't hold a candle to a 1970 Torino in my opinion.

When I was a young driver My step father had Pontiacs/GTO's & a 35 Ford pick-up & a Ford Country Squire Woody wagon, & a 68 Sport Satellite 383 4spd .The only people I hung out with were Mopar guys except my father, I had the 68 R/T Charger,  Rocco had the 67 R/t, John had the 383 4spd 69 RR, Mark had the 70 6bbl RR, Pat had the 440 6pac 70 R/T Charger (his father had a 68 hemi `cuda I owned latter), My younger brother Tim had a 57 Cheby pick-up he was a squirrel, his best friend had a 65 Mustang he was a squirrel. so growing up anyone with a early Cheby stepside or a Mustang was a squirrel to me. LOL. Now of corse I don't think like that now, but you can see were I am coming from. I was currupted at an early age.    Budnicks

[440]

I myself would get a pantera if I wanted something exotic looking that can be built to haul ass.

X2

X3 - If you have the cash a Pantera GT5

If your not passionate about the Charger sell it to someone who is.

[mikesbbody]

I've been thinking about G Man's situation and feel I have overlooked something and that is How many of us are lucky enough to truely be in a postion to Buy what we want? (when it comes to a Car) it doesn't matter if it's a Muscle Car, a Exotic, a Ricer whatever if you are in a position to get what you have always wanted then good for you! I have a 72 SE Charger my Dream Charger? not by a long shot!
(I'd love a 71 RT or a 71 Super Bee followed by a 72 Rallye Charger. My only hope is to make my Charger into one of those cars. My only other American car, was a 71 caddy big? yes! ugly yup! I loved it though but it wasn't what i wanted long term so i can TOTALLY relate to you G Man. Another thing, while I can understand my Charger won't drive like a modern Car, if i had the $ to update it I would in a Heartbeat. btw, I never really even knew about American Car's until the likes of the D.O.H, Knightrider etc came along and my Dad (or anyone I knew) never owned anything American. Maybe one Day G Man
Will have another Charger to keep his Ferrari Company.

[rooks]

Rooks - I know what I want. Its a Lamborghini Diablo GT. Until funds allow for such a car, I figured I mayswell ease my way into 'exotic' cars. Hence my idea of the 308, cheap enough to get now, drive that for 12 months till I got the difference for a Testarossa, sell the 308, buy the testarossa, drive that till I got the difference for a Countache, then sell the Rossa for the Count, then drive that till I got the difference and sell the count and have ultimately what I wanted which is the Diablo.

I just figured rather than sit around and wait til the final result I could have some fun upgrading in steps.

My car 41Husk sold to me, there was 100 pictures of it on this site.
Howmuch? Not sure... will be driving it around Aus and see what people offer. Seeing what kinda junk sells here for 40 000, Id be looking at 50 000 considering its in great condition, everything fixed on it now, totaly original including the metal on it. But thats my guess, will see what happenes. Maybe I will hold onto it and just earn the difference for the 308, buy it, drive it. If I love it, sell the charger then, If I dont, sell it for the money baught and still got my 68.

MMmmmmmM - We will see.

Regarding the first paragraph, that's a lot of buying/selling - which means an additional stamp duty payment for each one (these arn't $2000 clunkers, so they'll be significant amounts) - and with every new car (which I would assume is more expensive than the last) comes increased rego & insurance costs. That's a lot of money unnecessarily wasted on continually buying/upgrading cars you only half want.

If the Lambo Diablo GT is your endgame - I'd be inclined to just keep the Charger, and keep saving until you can afford the Lambo.

But it's your money and time. If that's how you wanna spend it - go for it.


Regarding your Charger - I've searched for hours and can't find the pics. hahaha. Found the post on Cuda-Challenger but they were attachments, and that sites attachments are frequently deleted. Still no idea what it looks like. 

You also have to realise it may take some time to sell your Charger down here. The only Muscle cars down here selling and maintaining value are Aussie ones. There's been some fantastic US Muscle for sale down here of late, and a lot of it has been for sale for quite some time. Because of the GFC people here are struggling to sell - and it's not why you think. There are buyers, and they have money - but because the US economy is the way it is, people are doing exactly as you and I did and are buying direct from the US. They have more options at better prices - giving them a much better chance of getting the exact car they want, for a much better price than they'd ever pay for one locally. Also add to the fact that,because of the low prices, importers got in on it to make some quick & easy money - the number of US muscle cars in Australia has probably doubled in the last 2 years. Anybody who wants one and can afford it, probably already has one by now.

If you're not prepared to take a significant loss, then be prepared for a waiting game. You may get lucky and happen to find a buyer with money that wants you exact car, in a right place right time scenario - but chances are it will sit for quite some time.

There are cars listed now that have been on the market for over 12 months, come down 30% in price, and still not sold. Cars that 5 years ago would have sold within days.

Take this car for example: http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/private/details.aspx?R=9936469&ref=RecentItem&__Ns=pCar_RankSort_Int32|1||pCar_Price_Decimal|1||pCar_Make_String|0||pCar_Model_String|0&__N=1216%201247%201252%201282%204294966380&Nne=

A genuine factory white, numbers matching 440 Magnum, 1970 Challenger. This was listed at the beginning of the year for $90k - has since dropped to $65k - and still not sold - and it is in fantastic condition.

If Kowalski's Challenger can't sell - well, you get the picture.

Not trying to be a prick, just letting you know what you may have in front of you.

[440]

We also learned the hard way in Aus depending on where you are to check the local registration rules.. If it's left hand drive in some states the car has to be 100% original down to the radio or you cannot get it registered without changing it, even if the car comes from interstate. It's a tough market so make your decisions wisely and don't jump into anything your unsure about.

This leaves another question, do you spend the money converting your car to RHD to devalue it in the long run? However this could increase the potential market in Aus as it makes them more sought after in those strict states.  

[mikesbbody]

When you say converting, are you also talking about Ferrari's and lambo's? is there any mention of G Man's Ferrari, and other Exotic being RHD? or LHD? so anything LHD 9not just American Car's) has to be converted in some states unless it's 100% stock (I just thought it was American Car's)?

[440]

Anything Pre 89 in some states has to be 100% stock as per left the factory if you want to keep it LHD. Anything post 89 has to be RHD, no exceptions. Converting a Ferrari to RHD isn't so bad as they made RHD cars... Converting your charger is a different story, especially if it's rare. Would you cut up a Superbird to make RHD ?

Up until the past couple of years everything had to have amber indicators as well   Nothing worse then seeing an American car with tacked on indicators.

Ever see an overseas Corvette? Looks ugly with one red lens and one amber/yellow lens.. The new ones also have half a lens red/amber. I think Canadian Vettes are the same.  

[doctor4766]

Like I've mentioned before, in WA we can pretty much do what we like.... to a degree.
The LHD vehicle only has to comply with the equivalent ADRs (Australian design rules) that were around for Aussie vehicles of the same year. ie I was able to leave the rear turn signals flashing red in Western Australia instead of having to install amber flashing lights. If it were a '70 model it would be a different story.

Even the installation of seat belts (front and/or rear) is only mandatory if the "foreign" car is built after or in the year that they were compulsory here.

SA (South Australia)n rules are almost draconian in my opinion.

[440]

Hence why I said some states 

[doctor4766]

Yeah I hear ya.
Maybe you outta move over this way <----------------------

[440]

I gotta move anywhere but here 

Where is G-man from ?

[doctor4766]

New South I thought....
But I could be wrong

[G-man]

NSW - Close to Sydney.

No issues of LHD, leaving red turn signals, only lap belts in front  etc all OK. Can modify the  stuff out of the car and still be OK.

As said... If I could keep both I definatelly would just  save up. I understand the 'save up for the GT' and then get the GT but that means driving muscle for next (quite a few years I assume). So I figured I can 'ease' my way into it by starting with something I can afford and move forward that way. But thanks f or all the posts, definatelly something to think about...

Infact, Im gonna go see that place I remember, go for a ride in a  ferrari and see if i even like how it feels... that may settle everything sooner  rather than later.

[440]

Pantera = Exotic Muscle 

[mikesbbody]

So I assume G-Man's Ferrari will be a RHD? (bought in Aus) or (if brought in from the States) LHD and if so (if he leaves it stock which I assume he will) he will leave it LHD? that is what I'd like to know. New Zealand rules are similar, but I think it's 30 years or older can remain LHD pretty much the only RHD stuff you will see from the USA here is later Model Trucks. Even some of those are not required by law to be converted the owner may choose to do so I could not understand this while it's not the same as converting a Superbird, if it doesn't need to be done (by law) then why do it? So, is it a RHD or LHD Ferrari your looking at G man?

[440]

The only problem is the legislation varies so much state to state on what is allowed or not. NSW is fairly lenient and legislation seems to be on par with Victoria. NSW has a 30 year cutoff to be registered in LHD, If his Ferarri isn't 30 years old it would have to be converted.

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/downloads/vsi/vsi40_rev1.pdf

[G-man]

I want a RHD car.

See, the Charger I would rather be 'RHD' considering the side of the road we sit on, but... because they ALL are LHD, it just feels wrong converting it. So what happenes in this situation, I dont convert it due to reasons however I feel "id be happier if I had a RHD car" (just not the charger as I would feel wrong converting that particular car).

The ferrari on the other hand, being LHD or RHD, both are correct.Infact the value of them is more if they are RHD here. hile Chargers ofcourse are worth less. So now I can have a RHD car that feels right being that way and its what I wanted, a RHD car. The one I found however that I was looking at was LHD... with the conversion however it would have still been cheaper than an already RHD car... so I would RHD it right away.

As far as Law... I dont know... I know 30+ years or older it can be LHD in NSW, any newer... not sure, but as said, im after RHD so if I find 2 identical quality feraris, one is $68 000 and RHD while the other is  $55 000 LHD, I convert that 55k one as soon as I get it and ive spent $63 000 for a car as good as the one going for $68 000. Id only buy LHD if its gonna be cheaper with me converting it vs buying one already RHD.

[440]

Personally I'd feel much safer in a car that was engineered to be LHD then an old LHD that was converted to RHD. I've seen some pretty scary conversions for which most older ones would most likely be. Double roller chains and tensioners for the steering box, water pipe with industrial bearing supports for throttle clutch movement and wooden dash pieces.

The newer conversions often cost nearly as much as the original vehicle itself... Look at the modern Camaro and Challenger, a 50 - 60 K car is now $100K +

Buying a RHD vehicle is the easiest option .

[G-man]

Personally I'd feel much safer in a car that was engineered to be LHD then an old LHD that was converted to RHD. I've seen some pretty scary conversions for which most older ones would most likely be. Double roller chains and tensioners for the steering box, water pipe with industrial bearing supports for throttle clutch movement and wooden dash pieces.

The newer conversions often cost nearly as much as the original vehicle itself... Look at the modern Camaro and Challenger, a 50 - 60 K car is now $100K +

Buying a RHD vehicle is the easiest option .

Yes it is and that way it doesnt sit for another month-2 before it gets done.
But in regards to new cars from 60K = 100k... from what i remember, its not because the work costs that much. Its the fact they hit u with "Compliance plates". Old car doesnt need compliance, so when its converted ur just paying for the work done. The new car would be the same but because u have to get a propper compliance for it once completed, thats where the 30k goes because they know u cant have it legal without it, so its not the actual work but the bull compliance they hit u up for. Btw - If I did end up with LHD to convert, it would get done at the ferrari specialist I found.

Rooks - http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,65091.0.html

They are the pictures of my Charger

[rooks]

Mate that looks absolutely gorgeous. Love that colour combo. An absolute pity you won't let yourself enjoy it.



Regarding the LHD/RHD decision - absolutely get one already RHD. The cost of converting a Ferrari would be frightening. Well beyond just parts & labour. Engineers need to be involved and as you said for compliancing.

A new Dodge Challenger (SRT8) costs over $30k to convert to RHD.

[440]

Mate that looks absolutely gorgeous. Love that colour combo. An absolute pity you won't let yourself enjoy it.

Agreed 100%... Stunning ... One of my favorite color combinations.

I hope it goes to a good home, someone will surely love it if G-Man doesn't.

[G-man]

what ya mean someone will surely love it if G-man doesnt?

If i didnt love it, it would be easy to just kick off and no big deal.

I got full history record with the car, who owned the cars over the years, when it was registered, where it was registered, all the places the car ever got serviced at (tires and everything), receipts from everything ever done to this car. Still has original boot (trunk) floor, still has original quarters, original floor pans... never rusted out. Sure its been 'resprayed' but the whole thing is how it would have been in 68. I even got a set of NOS mirrors to go on to keep that 'original' aswell. The only thing in it not original is the Alloy Radiator (which is a bonus) but I do have the original one sitting right here in the shed.

I wish I had the money to have both!

I understand I can sell this, do whats better for business then buy a charger again later but... where will I find one so original? The most important part to me is the metal. Where can I find a charger with all original body panels on it that dont need replacing/cutting... to me thats the most important part on the car to be original. I dont mind if gearbox, engine etc isnt, as I wanted to stick a 528 hemi in it anyway with a 5-6speed manual, but the metal to me needs to be.

Ill give u I dont love this car

Hmmmmm LET ME THINK OK? 

[mikesbbody]

When I think of a Ferrari, or something similar I think of RHD despite my Boyhood Hero Magnum P.I  :Lil: but I am in New Zealand which is in your
Part of the world (driving on the same side of the road etc) I don't think I have
Seen any LHD Exotics down here I've seen Older Euro Car's that are LHD.
There are a handful of new Challenger's and Camaro's here I only know of one of
Each that were converted why? they didn't have too (there's a way in which new Car's and trucks can be left LHD) having said that, I know conversion's these day's are Professionally done but I would not have it done. As for the Ferrari? if it were Me, it would be RHD.

[440]

I agree with a car that has that much history included and originality that you shouldn't cut it up. So the car doesn't meet the requirements that you have.

From your posts you don't seem that keen on the car, but somewhat torn as what to do with it, so I'll substitute "love it" for "passionate about it".

At the end of the day it's your car and you can do whatever you want with it. You need to appreciate it for what it is, not what it isn't. If it's not what you want then either change it to your liking or sell it to get what you want and let someone else enjoy it.

Whatever you decide I wish you luck, whether you keep it or not...    

[aussiemuscle]

It is also probably the cheapest and most practical of the super cars that you mentioned.

yes, practicalness of supercars is worth considering. i've heard that to reverse in a Countach, you have to open the door and sit on the sill, because the rear window is like 2 inches high and practically useless.

[mikesbbody]

Wasn't there something on Top Gear (Jeremy Clarkson) Parallel parking one by leaning out the door? (this was a older Lambo) I know it has nothing to do with G- Man's Ferrari  maybe a video is on Youtube.

[G-man]

I think all lamborghinis are that way (useless rear view window). I loved Jeremys comment though when he pointed out the rear window and looked at it lolz.

Well I got an update. Made few phone calls to people this Ferrari specialist gave me numbers to... nobody has 308s, nobody has 328s, nobody even has the Countache OR the diablo. They say they are 'too old'. They also asked me why am i looking for something that old, is it budget or what. So i told them, the 308 is due to budget but the Diablo is because all the newer lamborghinis (gallardo etc) lost their lamborghini look and look like everything else these days. He didnt like that comment very much but bad luck, thats just how it is to me. After Audi took over, they produced all this modern looking stuff that lost its Lambo uniqueness.

Anyways, after all failed calls I decided to go see that service centre just to speak to the guy face to face. When I got there, there was a nice red ferrari there. It was an older model (1997) which I absolutelly loved the look of. We spoke a little, he said not to sell the Dodge to get a 308 because I would be 'downgrading' and im better off saving that little extra coin to get something like the 355 that was there as its 15 years newer, much more reliable and has the power to back it up to still feel like what I own (charger). So anyways, we went for a drive in this Ferrari F355. Only 6 cylenders were working because the rich guy that owns it doesnt wanna spend 1500 dollars to get it sorted out, to him its not priority on the list (never understood rich people, they got money but dont wanna spend it... very weird). So he drove it around the town with me, reved it up past 5000rpm (this is when the engine absolutely sounds amazing), it goes pretty hard and should have gone 'harder'. Nice and stable, doesnt brake your back (firm but comfortable), its not too loud like the dodge inside while cruising, its quite comfortable on the ears, ur heads not gonna blow up cause ur hearing exhaust vibrations inside ur head at 35-40mph (which I kinda hate that about the dodge) and yet when it goes hard it really screams some sexy sounding notes out the rear. It is RHD and it is correct being RHD which I also prefer as I would prefer a RHD car over LHD. The part I loved very much so was that the mirrors are quite functional, has pretty good visibility, out the rear window u can see the end of the car which I also liked, its much smaller than the dodge, so easier to park etc which was also a bonus, and I guess sitting inside it, feels like a race car. I know the dodge can be made a race car but because its so big on the inside and how its designed etc, it just wont 'feel' like a race car sitting inside it, while the ferari, how its kinda tight, on the ground etc felt like i was about to go on a race track, n that I liked about it. Charger can drive like a race car but would 'feel' like a muscle car sitting inside it... I liked the race like feel about the 355 aswell.

On the way back, he turned a corner hard and wanted to show me how good it handles but the 20 year old tires that have never been used, were so hard that they had no traction, he totally spun out after turning left, I saw a parked car getting closer and closer as we started sliding towards the ferrari (So ofcourse i felt like "O man dot smash it on my behalf"... but wwithout ever guessing, this guys got race car driving experience so he just did whatever he did and the car rather than sliding just did a donut and stopped behind the parked car and then continued driving back to the shop.

After getting out of the car, I got to the back of the car and I read "Berlinetta". Now to me that was special because if I prefered ferrari over lamborghini, the Berlinta was the one I would get, to me thats the Best looking ferrari, and the best looking Lambo is the diablo. Funny thing is, there both 1996-1998 model cars (the diablo and berlinetta).

So conclusion that I came up with.

1: I prefer RHD cars (ferrari wins here as converting charger would be just wrong to do to that car)
2: Ferrari is nice and quiet while driving normal (which Im kinda over all the noise inside my head from the charger) - hence more comfortable to drive from this aspect.
3: I always liked light cars because they dont need as much HP to move them as quick. (Ferrari 2900lbs, nowonder 375 HP with 2 cylenders not working felt as quick as the dodge)
4: Ferrari will definatelly be better for business
5: Ferrari feels race like without having to drive it, due to nature of its interior design, position u sit at etc (charger always feel muscle even if it drove on rails)
6: The ferrari does sound Hot when u take the revs right up to 5000+ rpm, it almost started singing like the dodge does, so i was very impressed. I thought it would sound like a jap car... but no, inside it had a really really nice race like growl to it 5000-6000-7000rpm. So it was practical in slow friving (quiet) and yet when you open it up it sounds like its meant to aswell.
7: Its a lot smaller and easier to park/see through (like a normal car)

So overall I loved the car and suits me better due to those reasons. I guess I just want a normal car, thats quiet, that can handle, that can sound awesome and race like when you nail it, and that feels race like sitting inside it which is also Right Hand Drive, the ferrari does all those.

So my Charger is up for sale. I know when It sells I definately wont have the means for the F355 but better to have money in the bank to add to than find a good F355 and then start selling the dodge which could take a while to sell.

Thank you everyone!

[Brock Samson]

G-man I have read your posts on here for a long time since the debacle with your first Charger and I think you are doing the right thing by selling up.

You need to be passionate about these cars to enjoy them, whereas I notice you always just focus on the faults and what they can't do. 40 year old muscle cars are always going to have quirks and faults, that's why we love 'em! Obsessing over some ridiculous horsepower figure and whether it will outhandle a modern sports car based is completely insane, especially given the laws over here now mean you can't even fart without getting your car impounded.

I don't want to be rude, but in your posts you do not really come across as a 'car guy' let alone a 'Mopar guy', maybe get yourself some nice new turbo jap/euro thing from a dealer for some speed thrills, then stick to Gran Turismo and Top Gear to get your exotic supercar kicks, as it sounds like these cars will ultimately not live up to your expectations either.

All the best, whatever you decide. 

    X2!