For everyone to read

[G-man]

Hello guys,

You all know how I wanted to turn my 68 Charger into one serious performing street car. Ive decided that to do what I want ultimatelly, a dodge charger is not the car for me. As sad as I am... Im too perdantic/perfectionist that any issues (chrome going brown when raining etc etc), having to fix this having to fix that, this stops working that stops working etc etc to want to be stuffed with a car like this.

Consideing im talking serious performance, I have learned that power-weight ratio is power-weight ratio (yesI know this is remarkable  ). Whether that be a 8.6 litre Hemi putting out 850hp or whether thats a v12 6.0 litre pushing out 850 hp or whether that be a v6 pushing out 850hp... 850hp is 850 hp!

I want a handling car and a car that goes hard in a straight line. Yes I can spend 200 000 on the dodge charger to make it handle (what I thought, brand new tube chasis etc etc)... why not just buy a lamborghini Diablo For that money? It will still probbably perform better than the dodge and its got the horsepower in it to not be intimidated at the lights either.

Since im running a business, cant deal with all the issues old cars tend to have... Im going euro-exotic and placing money there.

For now I will get a ferrari 308 (yes i know thats not very new but at least it wont rust as its fibreglass) and its in the direction of the Diablo I ultimatelly want (it is a euro exotic car even if its on the cheaper end of the scale).

So thanks everybody for all the imput, time and effort to answer all my questions, I guess the effort you guys put in an answering all my out there questions braught me to this decision as I learned alot... so theres no point spending 200k on a charger. IF i dont like the charger after that money is spent, good luck selling it, and good luck not losing A LOT of money on the sale. I also had to come to terms with the fact that a charger due to its body shape etc can not top the speeds these exotics top unless I turn it into a daytona... however then it does not look like a charger anymore which defeats the purpose. I also like 15" wheels best on a charger because its muscly, but 15" wheels wont perform like 17" wheels, euro exotic cars standard come with 17" wheels and it looks good on them cause there designed to suit that looking wheel. Yes I can buy 17" wheels but they dont look right to me on the charger.

So no matter how I turn it, it just wont work out for me with the mopar. Sure theres the Viper if I wanna stick to mopar... but, seriously... I dont see that handling/being as good as lamborghinis nor does it have that real aggressive look I like about the Diablo.

For now Im selling my 68 Charger that I just got from Allen(41husk) (Sorry mate I feel bad to  but im glad I could have helped u get your Daytona at least  )... replacing it with a ferrari 308, when I save up some coin going to sell the 308 and buy a testarossa, then save up alot of coin, sell the testarossa buy the countache and then save up as much as the countache cost and sell the countache to have my Diablo GT. Will tweak the engine to make 750hp... thats gonna go extremelly hard in a straight line (harder than the charger at 750 considering its lighter) and it will out handle a charger no matter howmuch money I chucked at the charger, also who can complain about how that car looks? And no rust issue problems which I cant stand about these old cars.

So thanks everyone for everything but Im going in a completelly new direction. As said, the charger jsut wont do what I want and be how i want it to look doing it.

Love you all! (I may still hang around if thats ok? - let u know on the updates etc?)

George

[greenpigs]

Are you going to get a Hawaiian shirt & grow a mustache?  Sorry I had too.

Sounds like a fun car & the Magnum PI jokes may happen allot, not sure as I don't follow the Ferrari brand.

I would like to see it whenever you get one.

[1969chargerrtse]

Fully understand.  Dofferent strokes for different folks.  There needs to be a strong love and dedication to deal with these older cars for sure.  Mine put me through hell and back, but I'm a Muscle car guy since childhood and hung in there.  Good for you and I wish you best.  You're doing the right thing for you.  

[tan top]

yeah i can see what your saying !!  , you got to do , what you got to do , & best suits your taste / what you want to get out of a car 

[MaximRecoil]

Consideing im talking serious performance, I have learned that power-weight ratio is power-weight ratio (yesI know this is remarkable   ). Whether that be a 8.6 litre Hemi putting out 850hp or whether thats a v12 6.0 litre pushing out 850 hp or whether that be a v6 pushing out 850hp... 850hp is 850 hp!

Not exactly. There are going to be different characteristics depending upon variables such as naturally aspirated vs. forced induction and the RPM range where it makes the most horse power. There is also torque to consider.

For now I will get a ferrari 308 (yes i know thats not very new but at least it wont rust as its fibreglass) and its in the direction of the Diablo I ultimatelly want (it is a euro exotic car even if its on the cheaper end of the scale).

Ferrari 308s are steel-bodied cars, most of them anyway. For the first two years of production ('75-'77) they used a fiberglass body, but from '77-'85 they were steel. I would much rather have a steel-bodied car than a fiberglass-bodied car any day; you get more reliable grounding for the electrical system and they are much easier to repair in the event of damage; or at least, there are far more people capable of doing a proper repair on steel than on fiberglass.

For now Im selling my 68 Charger that I just got from Allen(41husk) (Sorry mate I feel bad to   but im glad I could have helped u get your Daytona at least   )... replacing it with a ferrari 308, when I save up some coin going to sell the 308 and buy a testarossa, then save up alot of coin, sell the testarossa buy the countache and then save up as much as the countache cost and sell the countache to have my Diablo GT. Will tweak the engine to make 750hp... thats gonna go extremelly hard in a straight line (harder than the charger at 750 considering its lighter) and it will out handle a charger no matter howmuch money I chucked at the charger, also who can complain about how that car looks? And no rust issue problems which I cant stand about these old cars.

Wow, that's going to be a lot of money. But yeah, if you want sports car handling, your best bet is to get a sports car. A '68 Charger is essentially a midsize (by '60s standards) family car, no different underneath the skin than a '68 Satellite or a '68 Coronet. I'm sure it could be made to handle like a high end sports car with enough cash thrown at it, but there wouldn't be much left of it that was still Dodge Charger; i.e., you'd end up with a highly stripped down tube chassis with a completely custom suspension and Charger body panels; something akin to a current NASCAR stock car.

Also, most cars are susceptible to rust problems; i.e., even if their body panels aren't steel, their frames usually are. The main reason that Chargers tend to be so rusty these days when you find them is because they were not an exotic car when they were new (even though many of them command exotic car-like prices these days); they were average priced cars that the average guy could afford, and they tended to be daily drivers regardless of the weather or season. Something like a Ferrari on the other hand, being an expensive exotic car, was bought primarily by wealthy people, and probably garaged, regularly maintained at the dealership, and only driven occasionally in nice weather. Things that are highly valuable when new tend to stay in better condition than things which only become highly valuable ~25 years later.

By the way, the Ferrari 308 is the second best looking body style ever created in my opinion (second only to the second generation Dodge Charger). It is also probably the cheapest and most practical of the super cars that you mentioned. In addition to the Charger and 308 both having amazing body lines, another thing that they have in common is that they are both 1980s "stars" or icons in the mind of the public; i.e. the 308 because of Magnum, P.I. and the Charger because of The Dukes of Hazzard.

[doctor4766]

I guess you weren't really a Charger guy then.
Hopefully the car will go to someone who can appreciate it for what it is, rather than what it isn't...

[Magnumcharger]

I understand completely where you're coming from.

As much as I love my Charger (and I do), it's an old car and subject to all of the traits of old cars, ie; handling, fuel consumption and an almost complete lack of safety features.

The exotics are in a class all by themselves. A lot of people throw a heck of a lot of money at the old B bodies in an attempt to "modernize" these cars, when in reality, they would be far better off just accepting these cars for what they are, stop kidding themselves and go buy a used Corvette. (You mean Chargers really can't fly??)

My poor old Charger, with it's ancient carburator-equipped 440 gets pathetic mileage, with it's 4:10 gears has an abysmal top end, and with it's four speed is very similar to driving a truck.
But that's the way I like it!
I'm not trying to kid myself.

I say: Follow your dream! Good luck!

[Cooter]

I guess you weren't really a Charger guy then.
Hopefully the car will go to someone who can appreciate it for what it is, rather than what it isn't...

Amen...........Sounds like a kick  balls to anyone who actualy puts in the time to restore/rebuild one of these Rust issue proned cars" huh?

[PocketThunder]

 

[Brock Samson]

  are you sure your not runninhorn?...  

 i hope you mean the dino 308 and not that magnum PI thing...

 

 because as I'm SURE you know since you did all did the research the Dino 308 is far superior on all counts to the magnum PI version..
but, you know that right?..  

 Maximum is correct when he says Torque is the issue not horsepower...
 Personally from your posts i think you are - as you say "to" much "perdantic/perfectionist" to be on this site.

[Aero426]

 are you sure your not runninhorn?...  

 i hope you mean the dino 308 and not that magnum PI thing...

 

Runninhorn was the first thing I thought of.    

The Dino 308 GT4 is all steel (Bertone built).    Early Magnum PI style 308s were made of tupperware by Scaglietti.  Both are bottom feeders relatively speaking.   They are inexpensive to get into, but it is very easy to be upside down quickly.  Because both are "cheap", they are the poster children of deferred maintainance.   In other words, the purchase price is just the beginning.     Both handle nicely, but are not anywhere near supercar performance catagory.    

[Brock Samson]

 the mid engine GT4 version is far superior to the other one... problem is when it goes through clutches- and they will quite often, you have to pull the motor,.. Mr. Sheeves over on ALLPAR has one and swears it's the best car he's ever driven and he's an Auto Engineer for a living the guy knows his sheet being responsible for many off road race vehicles and he has trouble with replacing the clutches, I'd belive his word and choices in vehicles way before most yahoos on the internet...  Think this G-man has ever ran a car on a track?.. Taken a class?.. or even driven an exotic?..
I think not. 

[Aero426]

There are people who really love their GT4's.  They didn't get ANY respect for years, but seem to have developed a bit of cult following.    I think the GT4 looks much better in person than in photos.    Both 308's are probably the last Ferraris that if you are mechanically inclined, you can work on yourself.    You certainly want to pay more for one that has been maintained and has the receipts to prove it.  

[MaximRecoil]

Both handle nicely, but are not anywhere near supercar performance catagory.    

There's no hard and fast definition for "supercar", but it generally refers to expensive mid-engine sports cars. The first car that was popularly referred to as a "supercar" was the Lamborghini Miura (the first mid-engine production road car), which — while outperforming a 308 — wouldn't really compete with the supercars of today. I consider both the 308 GTB/GTS and the "Dino" 308 GT4 to be supercars of their time, though not at the top of the heap.

Now, to go on a bit of a tangent here; the Magnum, P.I. style 308 (e.g., GTB/GTS) is my favorite sports car body style (with the very similar-looking Berlinetta Boxer being a close second), maybe because it reminds me of the Dodge Charger (e.g., Coke bottle styling, tunneled rear window, hidden headlights, similar angle on the trailing edge of the C-pillar). If a second generation Dodge Charger had been reimagined as a mid-engine sports car, a Ferrari 308 GTB/GTS is about what it would've ended up looking like I think.

[Mike DC]

 

The best deal in exotic-speed cars is a decent used modern Corvette. 

You can love it, hate it, don't wanna be seen in it . . . whatever.  Regardless, it's still by far the best deal if you just wanna go fast.  And when you throw in other factors like reliability & servicing headaches then I doubt anything else even comes close. 

[bobs66440]

  They are inexpensive to get into, but it is very easy to be upside down quickly.  Because both are "cheap", they are the poster children of deferred maintainance.   In other words, the purchase price is just the beginning.       

I agree. You have to be really careful to get a car with FULL service records. If you got a bad one FREE, you will wish you hadn't by the time you're done...

[Aero426]

There's no hard and fast definition for "supercar", but it generally refers to expensive mid-engine sports cars. The first car that was popularly referred to as a "supercar" was the Lamborghini Miura (the first mid-engine production road car), which — while outperforming a 308 — wouldn't really compete with the supercars of today. I consider both the 308 GTB/GTS and the "Dino" 308 GT4 to be supercars of their time, though not at the top of the heap.

The difference is that cars like the Miura remain regarded as a supercar icons, versus the 308 a volume production car for the masses.   I would describe the 308 as technically advanced, and high performance, but probably not a supercar.  In the dark days of 1976, both 308's were excellent cars a person could live with and actually drive.   But I don't think they approach the level of outright performance or exclusivity of a contemporary like the Countach.    

For decades, many Ferrari enthusiasts considered cars without a V12 to be sub par.   That has eased in regard to the 246 cars for sure.   As all the Dinos were conceived as their own entry level brand with their own badging, there is a reason that some owners slapped prancing horse emblems on them later!

[MaximRecoil]

versus the 308 a volume production car for the masses.

Relatively speaking perhaps; but they only made about 12,000 of them over 11 model years, and they were about $60K in the '80s. I've only ever seen one for sure in real life (Vic Firth has or had one, and his drumstick factory is 15 minutes from where I live). There was also one that I passed by once in the late '90s, but it may have been a kit car.

I suppose if someone wants more performance with the basic appearance of the 308 GTB/GTS they could get a 288 GTO (and pay dearly for it); which is definitely a "supercar".

[41husk]

I am sorry the car did not work out for you, but I am glad I was able to get the Daytona.

[skip68]

Well good luck with the new car. Post some pictures. 

[69 OUR/TEA]

We're all into different things,for me,could care less how my Charger performs,I was into them for the style and looks.But anyway,good luck with your venture.

[Big Sugar]

Sorry, I think by the time you find a suitable 308 and then go thru the prep work to turn it into a track monster, you'd be cheaper off just rebuilding your Charger to suit your needs, pretty sure you would gain a whole lot more respect at the autocross track in a Muscle pro touring car over a Ferrari 308.

And if your paying attention to the latest trends, The Classic  Muscle Car is in Big Pro Touring movement right now, I'd say Find yourself a nice lil A body and get you power to weigt ratio fix there and have a whole lot of fun spanking the Big Exotics with your old American Iron.

Or if your heart is set on getting out of your Mopar, Id stay away from the Exotics, Big Money, Big Expenses you'll have a running tap on your bank account.
Don't rush into a bad choice, Follow the Pro Touring or Autocross movement, and see whats hot.


Ron

[472 R/T SE]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReYfu5E-hOE&feature=related

[Big Sugar]

[greenpigs]

Why not build a Cobra kit car with paxton style supercharged 427 Windsor?