Discrimination at workplace

[Silver R/T]

Anyone else work somewhere and witness discrimination? We had a very skilled machinist who worked very hard. He has son who was leaving to Iraq. He requested time off but didn't have any vacation time so he wanted to take "unpaid leave time" "Big boss" decided he didn't want machinist to leave so he refused to give him time off. Machinist left anyways and was "suspended until further notice"
Now I find out that he has been officially fired. It really ticked bunch of other employees, including myself when we heard about it. I hope guy sues boss and gets a big settlement, afterall he deserves it. What do you guys think about this story?

[TK73]

That's NOT discrimination. THAT is unexcused absenteeism if not downright insubordination.

And NO, there is no viable lawsuit in this.

Most likely won't get UI for violating company attendance policy.

[greenpigs]

If the guy is as good of a machinist as you say he will not have any problem finding another job.

[TK73]

If the guy is as good of a machinist as you say he will not have any problem finding another job.

...and somebody is gonna be real happy getting his.

[Ponch ®]

how exactly is this discrimination? I don't follow...

[last426]

Having practiced personnel law on both the employee/union side and management's side, I agree with tk on this one. Plus, the fact that he doesn't have any vacation time hints that he is not a great employee.  Couple that with the fact that he intentionally disobeyed the boss shows that he, in fact, is a poor employee.  So it's a done deal.  And why the subject line claims discrimination is beyond me.  Kim

[stripedelete]

Having practiced personnel law on both the employee/union side and management's side, I agree with tk on this one. Plus, the fact that he doesn't have any vacation time hints that he is not a great employee.  Couple that with the fact that he intentionally disobeyed the boss shows that he, in fact, is a poor employee.  So it's a done deal.  And why the subject line claims discrimination is beyond me.  Kim

BINGO!

[440]

Given the circumstances I think with proof of his sons "deployment" the boss should have been a bit more lenient in my opinion.

[69CoronetRT]

Given the circumstances I think with proof of his sons "deployment" the boss should have been a bit more lenient in my opinion.

Probably true out of humanity but there is a clear violation of employment law justifying the firing.

[68X426]

  Sure the boss sucks, could have been a supportive guy ( and a patriot !! ), (of course there are more facts needed to render a final verdict of the suck-i-ness of the said boss), but what a fine example for a father to set for a military son: "I don't follow orders, I don't live up to my commitments, I do my own thing".

It's insubordination, he abandoned his team for his own selfish reasons. He should be a man and now take the consequences.

No discrimination to be found here. Just one selfish guy working for a selfish boss; sad because they both could have figured out what was the right thing to do. They both get failing grades.

[hemi68charger]

If the guy is as good of a machinist as you say he will not have any problem finding another job.

I agree... If I were one of the other machinist, I'd be looking for another job with a more understanding supervisor. As cold as it is, there isn't any unlawful actions that were taken by the supervisor, he's just a putz.... Haven' been in Iraq with the Air Force and seen with my eyes what can happen (less likely over now than when I was there), I can understand a parent wishing to spend time with their child before they go off to harm's way..

[Brock Samson]

 "At the discretion of the employer" a phrase to take note of.

[Chris G.]

That's NOT discrimination. THAT is unexcused absenteeism if not downright insubordination.

And NO, there is no viable lawsuit in this.

Most likely won't get UI for violating company attendance policy.

Bingo! Right on the head.

And what does Iraq have to do with him already having no vacation days left? How many days did he get a year? Being they fired him, he must have had a history of doing this.

[hemi68charger]

That's NOT discrimination. THAT is unexcused absenteeism if not downright insubordination.

And NO, there is no viable lawsuit in this.

Most likely won't get UI for violating company attendance policy.

Bingo! Right on the head.

And what does Iraq have to do with him already having no vacation days left? How many days did he get a year? Being they fired him, he must have had a history of doing this.

Could be Paul Harvey's "rest of the story",,,, alas, we don't know the complete saga........

[Silver R/T]

Let me ask you guys, especially those who have a son. Would YOU do the same thing. Maybe your son will die and you won't ever get to see him again. It's not like guy wanted to go camping

[RECHRGD]

You don't really lay out the circumstances.  Does his son live in town?  If so, why take time off when you have complete access to him at any time other than work.  If he's out of town, when was the last time he saw him?  Two weeks ago or 2 years ago?  With all the available communication methods available today, there would have to be something way out of the ordinary for me to jepordize my job like he did.   Bob

[Silver R/T]

Guy works in WA and his son presumable was in California somewhere. I don't think he signed anywhere that you can't take time off if you don't have vacation hours.

[Silver R/T]

If the guy is as good of a machinist as you say he will not have any problem finding another job.

Really? Have you been unemployed for more than one year, trying to find a job. With current economy I see doctors cleaning toilets. Our nation's job market is not the brightest at the moment. Just thought I'd throw that out there...

[greenpigs]

If the guy is as good of a machinist as you say he will not have any problem finding another job.

Really? Have you been unemployed for more than one year, trying to find a job. With current economy I see doctors cleaning toilets. Our nation's job market is not the brightest at the moment. Just thought I'd throw that out there...

  Depends on your location, if not a lot of machine shops in the area then he might have some trouble. In Ohio we have plenty of machine shops & they are always hiring knowledgeable machinist, but not button pushers.
   I have never been laid off & am working 55 hours+ a week(6 years) at a medical implant/devise machine shop, so yes underware stain I know what I am talking about.

[Chris G.]

If the guy is as good of a machinist as you say he will not have any problem finding another job.

Really? Have you been unemployed for more than one year, trying to find a job. With current economy I see doctors cleaning toilets. Our nation's job market is not the brightest at the moment. Just thought I'd throw that out there...

Which is exactly why this guy should NOT have taken off. You can try and sell the story, but for him to get fired means there's past history with his attendance.

Stop thinking stupid Silver and realize this guy was in the wrong. He knew what would happen and he did it anyway. His story ain't selling here. You don't need to sign anything that states you cannot take time off that you don't have...it's normal company policy.

[moparguy01]

I agree withthe majority here. The guy must have had some other issues prior and this was just the icing on the cake. I used to work with a guy who tried to sue because his supervisor wouldn't give him the day off to go to his grandfathers funeral. Even though he had been to 3 grandfathers funerals in the past 18 months. The last one actaully was a real funeral for his grandfather and the others were excuses to not work. I'm not saying this is the case here but without seeing an employee file it could be similar.

[PocketThunder]

so yes underware stain I know what I am talking about.

If this isnt proof that you should stick around on this forum, i dont know what is...           my 6 cents

[Charger RT]

one of the guys I supervise uses his time as he earns it. At the end of last month he had a combined sick/vacation time of 2 hours. He uses it as soon as he gets it. The contract says you don't earn OT rate until you have 40 hours. It also says I have to split overtime equal to all workers. So last week I was forced to give him Monday as OT. Tuesday he screws him self of some of it by leaving at lunch. I give him extra work and he goes home and does not do the regular work I have for him screwed my afternoon up and other workers afternoon up because they had to do his work. His wife is pregant and I hope he wants time off when she gives birth so I can fire him.
The machinist got what he desreved. I have 52 days on the books for things like this my co-worker could too. My daughter is having a baby this summer I think I will take some time off.
Tim

[no318]

If the guy is as good of a machinist as you say he will not have any problem finding another job.

Really? Have you been unemployed for more than one year, trying to find a job. With current economy I see doctors cleaning toilets. Our nation's job market is not the brightest at the moment. Just thought I'd throw that out there...

I teach at a local community college and there is a surplus of jobs for skilled positions around here (ie. auto collision, auto/diesel/ag techs, machinists, welders, etc., etc.)  There are more open jobs for skilled labor than there are qualified people to fill them.  Granted I am not on the west coast.

[bill440rt]

so yes underware stain I know what I am talking about.

If this isnt proof that you should stick around on this forum, i dont know what is...           my 6 cents

Please pass the roll of duct tape. I just split my sides open!!   

[1969chargerrtse]

so yes underware stain I know what I am talking about.

If this isnt proof that you should stick around on this forum, i dont know what is...           my 6 cents

Please pass the roll of duct tape. I just split my sides open!!   

  OMG.

[Marck]

Having practiced personnel law on both the employee/union side and management's side, I agree with tk on this one. Plus, the fact that he doesn't have any vacation time hints that he is not a great employee.  Couple that with the fact that he intentionally disobeyed the boss shows that he, in fact, is a poor employee.  So it's a done deal.  And why the subject line claims discrimination is beyond me.  Kim

Exactly, If he were one of my employees I would have fired him as well.. I must add that if it had been possible I would have given him some time off, but there is no way I would have a guy running around that openly disobeyed me like that..

[Silver R/T]

Boss is an asshole. He's just trying to kiss our company president's ass and tries to impress him anyway he can. None of our employees like him, unfortunately we can't choose our bosses. Btw this employee's attendance was impeccable, never been late. I just hope none of us end up in the same situation cause I'm sure nobody would want to be on the short end of the stick.
There was another boss who retired already (thank God) who would discriminate our fab shop employees. We have 32hrs of paid leave time and vacation. If person tried to use their PLT hours he would substitute them for vacation hours that way person wouldn't use up their PLT hours. I've lost approximately 10 hrs of PLT cause he wouldn't give them to me. Oh well, there's special place in hell for these scumbags.

[jeryst]

Plus, the fact that he doesn't have any vacation time hints that he is not a great employee.  Couple that with the fact that he intentionally disobeyed the boss shows that he, in fact, is a poor employee. 

Maybe its thinking like that what is responsible for the mess this country is in nowadays. So if I have two weeks vacation coming, and I go on vacation for two weeks, I'm not a good employee? HOw many vacation days do you get? Do you take them, or lose them? You've obviously never held a real working job or you would know that many plant employees dont get their own vacation. Instead, they are forced to take vacation when the company tells them to, because the company closes for maintenance, physical inventory, etc. Also, I would think that if my son were deploying and I may never see him alive again, seeing him off would be a very important event in my life.

I agree with two things, its not discrimination, and the boss is an asshole!

[dkn1997]

Boss is an asshole. He's just trying to kiss our company president's ass and tries to impress him anyway he can. None of our employees like him, unfortunately we can't choose our bosses. Btw this employee's attendance was impeccable, never been late. I just hope none of us end up in the same situation cause I'm sure nobody would want to be on the short end of the stick.
There was another boss who retired already (thank God) who would discriminate our fab shop employees. We have 32hrs of paid leave time and vacation. If person tried to use their PLT hours he would substitute them for vacation hours that way person wouldn't use up their PLT hours. I've lost approximately 10 hrs of PLT cause he wouldn't give them to me. Oh well, there's special place in hell for these scumbags.

He's not there to be liked.  Any boss who's not secretly hated at least a little is probably not doing his job very well.  doesn't mean the boss has to act like Hitler, but it's not a popularity contest either.

I also think you don't know what the word discrimination actually means.  You seem to think it means being a prick to someone.  That's part of it, but it's discrimination only if you're being a prick because you don't like the color of thier skin, thier age, or disability, etc... 

Having been a manager for 5 years now, and managing guys who do the exact job I did before I was a manager, at the same company, I have been in the position to have to deny time off.  I didn't see it in your post, but my first question would be how much notice did the guy give that he wanted the time off?  The only reasons I have ever denied time off is for too short notice (I just found out I have court today!  really?  the judge called you this morning and reminded you?  silly me, I thought they sent you notices in the mail for that sort of thing lol)  and if someone else of a similar position requested the same day/days off first and we couldn't absorb 2 people being out that day. 

Also, what is your company policy about time off and proper notice for time off?  Lastly, lets assume we are in the bizarro universe and I actually subscribe to your interpretation of these events....if the boss is such an ass, this can't be the first time he's been a douche about time off and your buddy who got canned had to know it.  Why even ask for the time?, he should have called out sick.  Not the moral right thing to do, but this is the real world and even good people venture into "gray" areas sometimes. 

Silver, I'm not trying to fight with you or call you names or anything, but it seems there may be more to this story.

[Silver R/T]

Point taken

[dkn1997]

Boss is an asshole.....

we need a laugh break in this thread and this comment reminds me of a joke.

two guys are sitting in a diner and one says to the other "all bosses are assholes!" 
a guy in the next booth overhears it and says "Hey, I resent that remark!" 
first guy: "why, are you a boss?" 
guy in the next booth: "No, I'm an asshole!"

Actually, it was told to me with "lawyer" instead of "boss" but I changed the names to protect the innocent 

[adauto]

As a small business onwer I've seen all the sides to the stories here. I'm not new to the scene (1984). I've heard at all over the years and I mean ALL. If I had a dollar for every time I've been lied to/BS'D/flim flammed I'd have a car lot full of HEMI cars! I dont see discrimination here but MAYBE a little bad judgement here. People using up all vacation and sick days and its only April! Then doing the " call in sick" " i need some tire off" BS after that. My experience is these folks are generally jerkoffs. If you dont like your job/where you work quit!  I know I'm gonna get flak for that statement but you took the job...man up. Not trying to start an argument here, just talking form experience. 

My manager has been with me about 23/24 years. Worked into the position. Is he an asshole? He can be, but he's been there done that, knows every job in the place. Ten minutes later he's your friend again. We don't hold a grudge. But if you think being the boss is easy?     

[Steve P.]

Why do you assume the boss is kissing anyone's azz? Have you maybe considered that he has more experience than you and others and knows what the rules are? Maybe that he has more knowledge of this guy than you or the other workers that think it is (DISCRIMINATION)? Maybe this same son went to IRAQ the last time he wanted off!! Maybe he pulls this kind of stuff often!!!!  Maybe it was just a good reason to fire a guy that was NOT doing the job as required!!!!!! If I were the owner I would want him as THE BOSS over you just because he is following the rules and I see that I CAN depend on him and NOT the guy that just took off anyway... Maybe that's why HE IS THE BOSS.............. 

[stripedelete]

Why do you assume the boss is kissing anyone's azz? Have you maybe considered that he has more experience than you and others and knows what the rules are? Maybe that he has more knowledge of this guy than you or the other workers that think it is (DISCRIMINATION)? Maybe this same son went to IRAQ the last time he wanted off!! Maybe he pulls this kind of stuff often!!!!  Maybe it was just a good reason to fire a guy that was NOT doing the job as required!!!!!! If I were the owner I would want him as THE BOSS over you just because he is following the rules and I see that I CAN depend on him and NOT the guy that just took off anyway... Maybe that's why HE IS THE BOSS.............. 

Right.  If he was a valued member of the organization, time off, in this situation, wouldn't have been an issue.  Bosses tend not to toss out PROFITABLE assets. 

[Darkman]

Right.  If he was a valued member of the organization, time off, in this situation, wouldn't have been an issue.  Bosses tend not to toss out PROFITABLE assets. 

I think that is more to the point.

In Australia, we can have personal leave (which comes out of your sick leave anyway). At least you don't have to call in sick when you are not! I am a manager of a civil construction company in a remote area (the middle of the desert) and we accumulate our sick leave (10 days per year), so if in 5 years, you can have up to 50 days sick leave. Our vacation leave (annual leave) also accumulates. For us there is no reason not to have a few days squirreled away somewhere. Also as the manager, you do get to know each individual and what they are like (most importantly when they are likely to claim sick days!). A good manager should know this. I have let workers have time off (without pay if they had no leave) due to unforseen circumstances because they are valued employees and are valuable to my operations. Just because they take their full yearly quota of leave each year doesn't make them a bad employee. Most of my workers work halfway across the country from their homes (working in mines) and they do get home sick and want to see their families.

I am only seen as an "asshole boss" to those that don't pull their weight and need constant reminding that they are letting the team down. After a few "rev ups" they either pull their socks up or are sent home.