No Title Advice

[Hud]

Looking for help in a decision.  I found a 66 Charger Big Block Car in KY that after 10 years the gentleman is finally willing to sell.  He does not however, have the title.  He remembers where he got the car from.
The car is in pretty good shape for a KY car, it will need metal in the quarters but everything is there and its pretty solid for a starter.  Im a little hesitant to buy the car because of it not having a title.  I can get the car for $2000, in non running condition.  its has a 400 that has not fired in years.  It was supposed to originally have a 383. 

Basically how am I supposed to get a title if I get this car.  I know I have to run the vin and find out if it has been junked or if its still in someones name.

1. If its still in someones name what is to prevent them from saying that this is their car and they want it back.
2. If its junked is it even worth the money to buy it.
3. If its a perfect world and they release the title ( if I find the original owners ) how big of a hassle am I looking at.
4. If its a junked title, how does a rebuilt title affect sale later down the road.

Anyone who has dealt with something like this before any advice would be greatly appreciated!
I would love to get the car but am very hesitant and almost wanna avoid this situation all together.

Cheers,
Hud

[RallyeMike]

I would pass.

If it were a rare car or a crazy smokin deal, I would contact the previous owner and see if the title WAS passed to the current owner. If so, then maybe the headache of getting it transferred would seem probable and worth it.

[Hissing Cobra]

Definitely get the VIN number and see if you can take it to your insurance company to have them run it through their database on stolen vehicles. I saw online recently (I think it was on this site to be exact) that most of the state RMV's or DMV's have a stolen car database where the VIN numbers are kept. In instances where the states don't go back too far, the insurance companies keep their own database on stolen cars and the money that they have paid out. From what I understand, the insurance companies' database goes back further than the state database.

If you can't get any information, I would pass as well. I know that in Massachusetts, you cannot register a car without a title and then when you do register it, you have to apply for a new title in your name.

[UH60L]

Closest I have come to this was with a '74 ford f250 truck a few years back.  I bought it from a guy who never got the title.  Luckily, it was local.  I went to the DMV and they gave me the address of the last known registered owner, from 7 years previous.  The truck had been sold several times since.  I sent them a letter with a bill of sale document, and surprisingly, they sent me back the signed form about two weeks later.  Took that to the DMV, and filed for a lost title and everything was good.  About 3 weeks later I got the new title in the mail.

Of course, I only paid $95.00 for that truck, so it wasn't that big of a deal, and if I couldn't get the title I was just gonna use it for parts.

I am guessing you are looking at paying a bit more for that '66.  Plus if your out of state, and it's been a long time since it was registered, it could be a real hassle to get it straight.

I agree with Hissing Cobra, get the V.I.N. and run it first, then go from there.

[FastbackJon]

What is the VIN? I can run a couple checks for you.

[bobs66440]

I would probably pass on the car. As a 1st gen owner, I can tell you that restoring one of these babys is insanely expensive and in the end the car will be worth only a fraction of your investment...and the headaches involved in my opinion are not worth it. I would be inclined to spend a little more for a car in better condition with no issues. They are out there.  

[Cooter]

I'd buy the car without a title, sure....I can't however tell YOU to do the same...I'll do whatever it takes to score a screamin' deal on a musclecar, even if that involves what might be considered "Shady" to some...I have had to pull some shady sh*t to get titles for cars I know weren't stolen, but the DMV was giving me hell over...One I finally had to just swap the numbers with a clean car. Never plan on selling and if I did, I will explain the ordeal that it took to get a title for said car to potential buyer at that time. It is alot of work to track down the paperwork trail for a car..you better be in loive and can't live without that car. This isn't a simple ordeal...THAT's why the guy didn't wanna sell all these years, as he knew full and well the car wouldn't bring sh*t without the title.

[stripedelete]

Your profile places you in North Carolina.  What will NC accept?  (Ohio will issue a title with a bill-of-sale and the last registration ).

[ITSA426]

It isn't that hard to title a car if you are comfortable it isn't stolen.  I've done a few of them.  You bond the title to protect you in case someone files a claim against the car.  I think a previous owner has three years to make and prove a claim.  Your insurance agent should be able to line up someone that can help you.  I think the bonding cost a couple hundred dollars and an awful lot of running around.  I think I just needed a bill of sale from the person I bought the car from and a letter explaining why I didn't get a title.

[madmike]

In Texas, two summers ago, I bought a '68 El Camino from a guy that bought it from the original owner, with no title, a couple years previously.  It's a long story, about what I had to go through, to get a title.  The original owner had died in the mean time, so there was no question that the car was not stolen.  In short, I paid $1500 for the car, jumped through hoops to get it appraised at it's actual worth (about $1500), only to be turned down by Texas DOT.  They wouldn't let me title the car, unless its worth refelected what it would sell for, if it was restored to original condition and sold in today's market (anywhere between $10-$15K).  So, I got the car titled, paid enormous taxes (because they said the car was worth the $10-$15K), and it cost me over $1000.  It was CRAZY...and I think I got screwed, because I was an out of state resident buying the car.  I realize every state is different, so...

In short, I will never buy a car without a title again, ever, no matter what kind of car it is.  It's not worth the legal trouble, to make it legally legitimate.  But, that's just me!
Mike

[Hud]

I appreciate all the feedback.  I think out of curiosity I will call today and have the vin ran. Over the phone.  I am a dual resident because of being active duty so I jive well with both NC and KY.  More than likely I will pass on the car though.  The advice is overwhelmingly leaning in the DONT DO IT category. I suppose I will just wait around to find a solid 68 to start on since thats what I want anyway.  Im just a little antsy to get started on another project because I have been driving my 73 nearly every day. 

Everything has to be a hassle but I suppose in a way the hassle helps prevent frauds and keeps the value a little higher on the cars by being so painful to obtain.  Its garbage that people cant hold onto a title.  I guess its to be expected on a 50 years old vehicle though.

[FastbackJon]

Can you provide the VIN to the 1966-67 Charger Registry or any pictures?

Greatly appreciated!!!

[Stormin]

In CT any vehicle older than 25 years does not need a title. I purchased my 66 and 67 with a signed bill of sale. I took the bills of sale to the DMV with the vehicles and they did a VIN check and gave me a registration; one of the vehicles did not even run.
If I move out of state CT provides documentation that states they do not issue titles and the registration is a valid ownership document.

I know a lot of other states are more strict and they may require a bond.

Norm

[440]

In California I bought a 71 Chevelle,The car was originally titled by an old man who handed it in to a wrecking yard to be crushed. The "previous" owner whom I bought it from was only able to buy it from the wrecking yard on a salvaged title. Upon many years of being slowly restored and neither myself nor the previous owner completing the title paperwork the DMV assumed it was junked, I had to pretty much convince them that the car wasn't junked and was being reconstructed. Now the car has to be presented to the DMV for inspection.

From my understanding with many a conversation from the DMV is that if a vehicle is on a "junked" title there is no possible way to get a full title for it. At lease if it's salvaged there is hope..

Would I do it again... Probably not unless it was a car that I just had to have and didn't care if I was able to get it registered for use on the road.

[Vainglory, Esq.]

I don't happen to know anything about KY or NC in particular, but you need to do research specific to your state.  As noted above, Connecticut does not issue titles to cars over 25 years old.  Vermont does not issue titles to cars over 15 years old by calendar year.  Georgia does not issue titles to cars older than the 1986 model year, if I recall correctly.  In these cases, you get a registration, and you sell cars on a bill of sale.

Each other state's DMV is required to acknowledge the valid registration of another state and properly title the car if, in fact, they do title cars this old (and assuming no problems with stolen car, junked car, etc. VIN records).

HOWEVER - no DMV is likely to make this an easy exercise.  Rather, many states will require bonding your title, sometimes for an amount well beyond the realistic.  Other states may not require bonding, but they may require a "title chain," or verifiable vehicle history.  Other states, including Minnesota, require that you fill out an affidavit and swear to your knowledge of the facts and circumstances surrounding the history of the car and how you came about its ownership. 

I believe that this is a common and fairly widespread issue given the state-specific regulations and the increasingly nationwide market for cars, and especially collector cars.  Unless there is some harmonization, this will continue to be a hassle, but it is not impossible to do.

[Hud]

This is the info as best as could interpret over the phone.   I kinda guessed the format and inputted the numbers.  If what I was told over the phone is correct the car should look something like this.

[FastbackJon]

Silver car, 383 4bbl automatic, red interior, red roof stripes.

Do you have a VIN?

admin@1966-67ChargerRegistry.com

Thanks!

[Hud]

I intentionally asked for the VIN and he sent me the fender tag info...  Then I asked again and he sent me pics. I'm starting to think that the VIN tag may have been removed but in any case I will asked again tomorrow.  Right now I am sitting with these pics via text and a lot of questions.  Though I would love to resurrect this Charger I am feeling less and less inclined to get involved with it.

[Hud]

I dont know if you all have read Troy's post about stolen parts and his raw deal on his Charger but I have talked to him and his circumstances directly relate to me stay alert in regards to a deal like this.  I grew up in London KY, where his stuff was stolen, and though I dont live there anymore looking for cars in that area is always a nightmare.  For all I know the VIN could have been taken to put on a stolen car.  Some nice cars come out of my hometown but I had never really stopped to think about it until this car came along.  There are a lot of mopars that have these issues. hmmm

[Wilde Racing]

Definitely get the VIN number and see if you can take it to your insurance company to have them run it through their database on stolen vehicles. I saw online recently (I think it was on this site to be exact) that most of the state RMV's or DMV's have a stolen car database where the VIN numbers are kept. In instances where the states don't go back too far, the insurance companies keep their own database on stolen cars and the money that they have paid out. From what I understand, the insurance companies' database goes back further than the state database.

If you can't get any information, I would pass as well. I know that in Massachusetts, you cannot register a car without a title and then when you do register it, you have to apply for a new title in your name.

NICB.org   

[ITSA426]

Run - like the wind. 

That looks to be a very expensive resto even with clean paperwork.  First Gen cars are expensive to redo and that doesn't appear to be worth the hassle of paperwork on top of everything the car needs.  I've done a couple and the biggest thing I see you getting there is an education.  Offer parts car price, and you won't be disappointed if all you have is a parts car.

Run!

[bobs66440]

Run - like the wind. 

That looks to be a very expensive resto even with clean paperwork.  First Gen cars are expensive to redo and that doesn't appear to be worth the hassle of paperwork on top of everything the car needs.  I've done a couple and the biggest thing I see you getting there is an education.  Offer parts car price, and you won't be disappointed if all you have is a parts car.

Run!

  It may make a good parts car if you can get it almost free. Otherwise I would forget it.

[FastbackJon]

This is the info as best as could interpret over the phone.   I kinda guessed the format and inputted the numbers.  If what I was told over the phone is correct the car should look something like this.

I believe there should also be an 8 under the Z for extra cost buffed paint. This was done on silver only cars.

I have a decent guess at what the VIN is and will run it on NICB. I can also call the KY dmv to see if they know anything.

I agree, it does look like quite the project for $2,000, especially with no title.

I'm all for rescuing Chargers, but here's a better option:

http://huntington.craigslist.org/cto/2237115280.html

[Hud]

I appreciate the link, I honestly had already looked at that car before, because I will be stopping in Ashland which is hop, skip, and jump from Huntington, I had forgot about it though.  I will check it out next week when I head that way.  I still have the gentlemen on the hook about the vin but if you can find something out that would be great too!  If 2k is to steep for the condition, especially when considering the poor condition what would be a realistic offer, even as a parts car?

[bobs66440]

Depending on what's useable on it. It doesn't look like there's much good on the outside by the pics, but if the trim and stainless is good, that stuff goes for big bucks (if it's nice). The interior pieces are also pricey. It's not unusual to see a nice console go for $500-$800. I sold an original steering wheel in fair condition for $125. Door & interior panels are rare and expensive if nice. If the headlight motors work they are good sellers along with the relays. If the gauges work (with lights) you can probably get $300-$500 for that. Do a search on ebay for 66-67 Charger parts. That will give you an idea. If you end up getting a better one, it always helps to have a parts car...wish I had one.

[Stormin]

Hud,
Run as fast as you can from this car. I paid 2600.00 for my 66 and 2750.00 for my 67 and they were both 95-98 percent complete and mostly rust free.

The car in the pictures looks like a parts car. I would not pay more than 300.00 for it.

Norm

[Benji]

Years ago my mother bought an old house next door to hers and in the garage was a 1971 Olds.  The owner of the house had died and his wife was in a nursing home with Alzheimers so we had no way of getting a title. The house was sold at a Sheriff's tax sale because the taxes had not been paid for several years.  I contacted an attorney and he thought for about $500.00 he could get a title for me.  Then someone told me about a company in Alabama that can help people like me with legitimate title problems. For about $150.00 and some documentation from me proving the car was not stolen they provided me with documents that I took to the BMV and they issued me a title. http://www.broadwaytitle.com/how.htm

Benji

[aussiemuscle]

interesting reading about the registration system in the usa. in australia each rego renewal has a form on the back to transfer title to the next buyer. if the car is out of rego you just need a signed receipt (indicating vin) as proof of ownership to get a new registration.

[adauto]

In my state WI if the titles been "junked" its a parts car only! If they catch you going thru a title broker is worse......  I'd but it as parts car just judging from the pics.

[Hud]

Havent looked into it but supposedly the Vin is      xp29g61215642    .... This is for the registry.  For the record Im taking everyones advice and running away.

Cheers,
Hud

[aussiemuscle]

In my state WI if the titles been "junked" its a parts car only! If they catch you going thru a title broker is worse......  I'd but it as parts car just judging from the pics.

Wouldn't that be for Write-offs?

[adauto]

No it wouldn't. Wisconsin "kills" the VIN.... forever. Its supposed to be part of the anti-theft campaigan which eventually turned into the national MVITS thing.....